Zinedane Zidane.

losthorizon

I cant believe nobody has mentioned Zico or Socrates.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARpEnjZIWko

A lot of people actually regard Pushkas as the greatest player of all time and the Hungarian team of the period as by far the best in the world. Although they were beaten in the world cup final Brian Glanville and others contend that they were either drugged by the West Germans or that the Germans bribed the ref. ( I cant remember now - but hes repeated the accusation a few times in World Soccer Magazine).

Maldini deserves to be in any list - a great defender. His positioning was superb - so good in fact that most of the time he didnt need to put in a tackle.

Dotrel

losthorizon wrote: »

A lot of people actually regard Pushkas as the greatest player of all time and the Hungarian team of the period as by far the best in the world. Although they were beaten in the world cup final Brian Glanville and others contend that they were either drugged by the West Germans or that the Germans bribed the ref. ( I cant remember now - but hes repeated the accusation a few times in World Soccer Magazine).

I heard the Hungarians went into 54 the final with the wrong mindset because earlier in the tournament they had destroyed their final opponent Germany 8-3 and presumed they'd be able to do it again just by turning up.

Germany had figured they would lose the group game v Hungary no matter what so they fielded a weakened side and it only helped to make the group result even more emphatic. Hungary fielded 10 of the same players in both games whereas Germany only 5 I think.

Also IIRC there was a lot of rain during the final and in hindered the Hungarians ability to play, giving the Germans and even better chance to win.

Iang87

mixednuts wrote: »

Of course International level has to be factored in .

Taking the other two players in people's top three or four: Maradona & Zidane both players who single handedly inspired a WC win with performances in major tournament that if removed would probably result in their respective countries not winning .

Yes club football has never been as big but it's silly to totally dismiss major achievements at international level when comparing to find the best.

now i'm not downplaying zidanes roll in the french world cup win but in the 98 world cup he was sent off and missed the last 16 game which they won 1 nil without him against paraguay. His first goal came in the final as did his second.

I know he had a big input in the actual winning of the world cup but thats not exactly like grabbing the tournament and making it your own. Thats why I feel international level isn't very important.

Also in my opinion the champions league is a far more superior competition to the world cup and messi has proven himself there plenty enough

Shanotheslayer

tdv123 wrote: »

In my life time.

1.Messi
2.Zidane.
3.Ronaldo
4.Ronaldinho
5.Maldini
6.Xavi
7.Iniesta
8.Baresi
9.Figo
10.Scholes

Which Ronaldo?

Anyway, I've always preferred Ronadinho, what a superstar he was! Absolutely amazing imo.

bullvine

Anybody over 34 think Zidane or Messi are better than Maradona?

Good call on Socrates, he was an incredible player in 82 and 86.

bullvine

tdv123 wrote: »

In my life time.

1.Messi
2.Zidane.
3.Ronaldo
4.Ronaldinho
5.Maldini
6.Xavi
7.Iniesta
8.Baresi
9.Figo
10.Scholes

Surely Baresi was a little before the rest of them?

losthorizon

bullvine wrote: »

Anybody over 34 think Zidane or Messi are better than Maradona?

Zidane - NO

Messi -No. But hes still young.

bullvine

If Messi, dominates a world cup, he'll go down as the greatest, remember how good Ronaldinho was prior to 2006 when he flopped, how different could it have been for him had he done the business then.

Reganio 2

daithijjj wrote: »

These debates are difficult to have. Zidane was obviously brilliant, so was Maradona, but Maradona did it while getting the sh1t kicked out of him week after week, even by the Brazilians, he was that good, on a different plane to Zidane imo.

I disagree throughly, what you are basically saying is Maradonna is the greatest player ever to play the game, and no one is ever ever gonna bet him, even if Messi wins the Champions League every year tilll he retires, and the World Cup so many times etc, yet Maradonna played in an era where they kicked people so he wins.

How is it Messi's fault that he is not allowed he is not allowed be kicked, I think its a good thing that he isn't so players like him can have longer careers.

losthorizon

bullvine wrote: »

If Messi, dominates a world cup, he'll go down as the greatest, remember how good Ronaldinho was prior to 2006 when he flopped, how different could it have been for him had he done the business then.

I agree nearly 100% with you about Messi. I never saw Pele live or the the greats before him (football didnt begin with live colour TV).

Ronaldinho is someone who just really annoys me. Excellent for a few years and then seemed to give up. Maybe I cant remember him getting injured or something but frankly I find his attitude as a professional footballer a disgrace. In years to come I cant see him on any lists.

bullvine

Totally, Ronaldinho blew it, if he had dominated that world cup in 2006 which he should have and won the trophy, he would easily been one of the greatest ever but I agree in the future , people will forget about him

Frankie Lee

Dotrel wrote: »

I heard the Hungarians went into 54 the final with the wrong mindset because earlier in the tournament they had destroyed their final opponent Germany 8-3 and presumed they'd be able to do it again just by turning up.

Germany had figured they would lose the group game v Hungary no matter what so they fielded a weakened side and it only helped to make the group result even more emphatic. Hungary fielded 10 of the same players in both games whereas Germany only 5 I think.

Also IIRC there was a lot of rain during the final and in hindered the Hungarians ability to play, giving the Germans and even better chance to win.

From wikipedia:

Controversies

Three controversial calls surround this final game, each favouring the German team. Firstly, Hungarian goalkeeper Grosics was allegedly interfered with in the goal area by Hans Schäfer for the second German goal; secondly, Puskás apparently equalised the match in the 89th minute but from an offside position; the third was an alleged foul on Kocsis in the penalty area in the final minute.
A study conducted by the University of Leipzig has revealed that the victorious German national squad may have been injected with methamphetamine prior to the match. The players believed they were being injected with Vitamin C. The study, entitled, "Doping in Germany" was sponsored by the German Olympic Committee

Bodhisopha

Yeah, it's a shame about Ronaldinho. A better player than Zidane on his day.

irishh_bob

PARKHEAD67 wrote: »

Was he the best ever?Discuss.He was the best player Ive ever seen. Di Canio was quite good too.

best player since maradona

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

curry-muff wrote: »

That's been puzzling me too, Van Basten never played at a World Cup, but I'd still count him as one of the best players ever.

Van Basten played at the 1990 World Cup afaik.

Warper

bullvine wrote: »

If Messi, dominates a world cup, he'll go down as the greatest, remember how good Ronaldinho was prior to 2006 when he flopped, how different could it have been for him had he done the business then.

People need to get over this WC thing - that is not the be all and end all of a footballing career. People are just trying to knock Messi by constantly adding caveats. First it was he never done it against English opposition, last year it was he never scored in England, now its he never won a WC. Tbh who cares. I challenge anyone to find me a more consistent player than Lionel Messi. Just scored 2 goals again tonight and its only half-time. Club football is at a higher level than international levels. Messi gets kicked around in every match but he just jumps straight back up and gets on with it. Plus he always gives 100%.

losthorizon

Warper wrote: »

People need to get over this WC thing - that is not the be all and end all of a footballing career. People are just trying to knock Messi by constantly adding caveats. First it was he never done it against English opposition, last year it was he never scored in England, now its he never won a WC. Tbh who cares. I challenge anyone to find me a more consistent player than Lionel Messi. Just scored 2 goals again tonight and its only half-time. Club football is at a higher level than international levels. Messi gets kicked around in every match but he just jumps straight back up and gets on with it. Plus he always gives 100%.

First of all they are playing Viktoria Plzen! Hardly the greatest of opposition! Secondly the CL is so seeded and the group stages are so dead that the compeition proper really doesnt start until after christmas and thirdly its a bit condescending to the rest of the world to think that the Europen CL is the be all and end all of world club football. The really good can do it at all levels both club and country.

Iang87

losthorizon wrote: »

First of all they are playing Viktoria Plzen! Hardly the greatest of opposition! Secondly the CL is so seeded and the group stages are so dead that the compeition proper really doesnt start until after christmas and thirdly its a bit condescending to the rest of the world to think that the Europen CL is the be all and end all of world club football. The really good can do it at all levels both club and country.

but the champions league is pretty much the be all and end all. Why do most top south americans move to europe?

Brendan97

1.maradona
2.pele
3.messi

bullvine

Its also not like Messi hasnt a good international team around him like George Best didnt, hes done nothing of note really on the international stage for whatever reason be it Maradona as manager or just plain old tiredness. Zidanes reputation at international tournaments probably surpasses what he achieved at club level.

Dempsey

Iang87 wrote: »

but the champions league is pretty much the be all and end all. Why do most top south americans move to europe?

Money

Auvers

bullvine wrote: »

hes done nothing of note really on the international stage

that's cause he hasn't got Xavi & Iniesta in the team

losthorizon

Iang87 wrote: »

but the champions league is pretty much the be all and end all. Why do most top south americans move to europe?

Money!

S. American clubs have won the world club championship more times than european clubs. I know its not hugely important but theres not that big a difference.

Bodhisopha

losthorizon wrote: »

Money!

S. American clubs have won the world club championship more times than european clubs. I know its not hugely important but theres not that big a difference.

And that money ensures that the vast majority of top players play in the Champions League.

Iang87

losthorizon wrote: »

Money!

S. American clubs have won the world club championship more times than european clubs. I know its not hugely important but theres not that big a difference.

you are aware south american sides see that as the ultimate goal whereas europeans see it as a nice holiday in january.

Even so if it is money the best of them still play in europe along with the best of europe making it the strongest competition unlike the world cup

bullvine

Auvers wrote: »

that's cause he hasn't got Xavi & Iniesta in the team

Hes still got plenty of other good players around him

losthorizon

Bodhisopha wrote: »

And that money ensures that the vast majority of top players play in the Champions League.

Except unlike in England load of countrys in Europe dont allow many non-Eu players

Warper

losthorizon wrote: »

First of all they are playing Viktoria Plzen! Hardly the greatest of opposition! Secondly the CL is so seeded and the group stages are so dead that the compeition proper really doesnt start until after christmas and thirdly its a bit condescending to the rest of the world to think that the Europen CL is the be all and end all of world club football. The really good can do it at all levels both club and country.

It doesnt matter who its against. Real Madrid, Man Utd, whoever. Best player of all time without question. Another hat trick tonight. Thats 2 in a row. Take a bow Messi and dont forget he is getting better.

ILikeBananas

Understandably this thread is biased towards players from the modern era since we're all probably people who grew up with the game in the 80's, 90's and 00's. International football has been played since the 1870's though. To make statements like "There is no question that Messi is the greatest player to have ever lived" is just plain ignorant.

As others have pointed out Messi is afforded great protection from the current laws of the game. He is the outstanding player in the world right now and is a joy to watch but there have been similar players in the past. Small, highly skilled players who have had the ability to terrorise defences with their dribbling skills, passing ability and shooting.

Diego Maradona is the obvious comparison but he has has been mentioned already by others (and rightly so). I'd like to go further back in time to the 1930's and to the great Giuseppe Meazza.



This guy was the original Maradona. He won two world cups for his country and scored 242 goals in 365 games with Inter. This, in an era where Italian defenders were allowed to kick the crap out of their opponents. He did all of this whilst drinking, smoking and riding all round him (Legend has it that he used spend the nights before matches in brothels.)

He was the first player in the world to have his own personal sponsors and was the first superstar of the early World Cup era. He was voted the player of the tournament in 1934 and captained Italy in the '38 finals, which were held in Italy (after apparently being told by Mussollini to "win or die").

His trademark goals were ones where he would collect the ball at the half-line, dribble through several opponents with a series of twinkle-toed shuffles, and turns, until arriving in front of the goal, where he would stop and invite the goalkeeper to attack him like a matador, before faking a shot, then dribbling past the beaten goalkeeper to slot home easily. In away games, the defenders would often foul and hack him to avoid being humiliated.[5] “Gol alla Meazza” and “finte alla Meazza” have since become popular sayings for Italian football fans to describe a truly inspiring goal off the dribble or a series of jukes. His goals “ad invito”, where he would invite the goalkeeper out before dribbling around him is yet another popular saying. Meazza once said, “There is nothing worse than having a penalty kick saved by a keeper who didn’t understand the fake.”

link

When he finished with Inter he played for 3 seasons with AC Milan. To honour him and this shared heritage the San Siro stadium is officially named after him (it's officially called the Stadio Giuseppe Meazza).

Iang87

fair enough read about meazza. just want to correct one thing, i dont think anyone said messi is the best player ever to have lived.

No one player can ever be described as the best ever to live

BERBA

Just looking at the way this thread started off and we got 6 pages already:eek:

Dotrel

bullvine wrote: »

Hes still got plenty of other good players around him

I thought they were woeful at Copa2011. Probably the world #1 example atm of "Lot's of great players, terrible team". Don't think even Messi could help them as things stand. They certainly weren't helping him anyway.

smokedeels

PARKHEAD67 wrote: »

The way he could make the ball be his friend.

.....football friend?

daithijjj

Reganio 2 wrote: »

I disagree throughly, what you are basically saying is Maradonna is the greatest player ever to play the game, and no one is ever ever gonna bet him, even if Messi wins the Champions League every year tilll he retires, and the World Cup so many times etc, yet Maradonna played in an era where they kicked people so he wins.

How is it Messi's fault that he is not allowed he is not allowed be kicked, I think its a good thing that he isn't so players like him can have longer careers.

In case you have difficulty reading (and taking it in) i didnt want to go into an era debate so i wont. Your view is your view, grand.

As has been pointed out, Messi has done sweet fk all on the international stage. As a point of interest, it would be interesting to see if he could do a Maradona and go to a place like Napoli in the mid 80's................(maybe he needs Xavi and Iniesta et al to be with him. )

Bodhisopha

The only thing Messi has to do is keep doing what he's doing. Such consistency at such a high level is unheard of.

bullvine

Maybe Messi doesnt need to win a world cup, he just needs to perform at one and he hasnt done that yet. All the truly great players of history have done it on both stages. Everything is setup for him at the next one, he'll be in the peak of his career. If he has a good one then, we may talk of him as being the greatest. Its still early days yet, who knows what might happen to him when Pep leaves Barca. He could go off the rails like Ronaldo or Ronaldinho, he could be finished by the time hes 27, you just dont no. Guardiola said after the Champions League win that he needed to keep goin and not fall into old habits, apparently when Ronaldinho was there, he use to party with him the whole time.

Another thing, the way this thread has gone just sums up how far away from the greatest of all time Zidane is!

Hawk Wing 2

Maradona is the best I've seen

Warper

bullvine wrote: »

Maybe Messi doesnt need to win a world cup, he just needs to perform at one and he hasnt done that yet. All the truly great players of history have done it on both stages. Everything is setup for him at the next one, he'll be in the peak of his career. If he has a good one then, we may talk of him as being the greatest. Its still early days yet, who knows what might happen to him when Pep leaves Barca. He could go off the rails like Ronaldo or Ronaldinho, he could be finished by the time hes 27, you just dont no. Guardiola said after the Champions League win that he needed to keep goin and not fall into old habits, apparently when Ronaldinho was there, he use to party with him the whole time.

Another thing, the way this thread has gone just sums up how far away from the greatest of all time Zidane is!

No he doesn't. The WC comes around every 4 years and is only a handful of games. What matters most is what he does week in week out. Any player can have a freakish few matches, no player in history can be freakish every week. Messi is the only one that can do that. The guy seems to never have a bad game and is at the centre of everything.

Once he's on the run, Messi is unstoppable. He's the only player who can change direction at such a pace."
"He is the best player in the world by some distance. He's (like) a PlayStation. He can take advantage of every mistake we make."

Arsène Wenger


Total games for Barca 316 - Goals - 213, Assists - 84

Awards and honours Club Barcelona
La Liga: 5
2004–05, 2005–06, 2008–09, 2009–10, 2010–11
Copa del Rey: 1
2008–09
Supercopa de España: 5
2005, 2006, 2009, 2010, 2011
UEFA Champions League: 3
2005–06, 2008–09, 2010–11
UEFA Super Cup: 2
2009, 2011
FIFA Club World Cup: 1
2009
ArgentinaFIFA U-20 World Cup: 1
2005
Olympic Gold Medal: 1
2008
IndividualFIFA Ballon d'Or: 1
2010
Ballon d'Or: 1
2009
FIFA World Player of the Year: 1
2009
FIFA Team of the Year: 3
2008, 2009, 2010
U-21 European Footballer of the Year: 1
2007
La Liga Player of the Year: 3
2009, 2010, 2011
La Liga top goalscorer: 1
2010
Copa del Rey top goalscorer: 1
2011
La Liga Foreign Player of the Year: 3
2007, 2009, 2010
La Liga Ibero-American Player of the Year: 4
2007, 2009, 2010, 2011
European Golden Shoe: 1
2010
UEFA Champions League top goalscorer: 3
2009, 2010, 2011
UEFA Best Player in Europe Award: 1
2011
UEFA Club Footballer of the Year: 1
2009
UEFA Champions League Forward of the Year: 1
2009
UEFA Champions League Final Man of the Match: 1
2011
UEFA Champions League Final Fans' Man of the Match: 2
2009, 2011
UEFA Team of the Year: 3
2008, 2009, 2010
Footballer of the Year of Argentina: 5
2005, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010 FIFPro World Player of the Year: 2
2009, 2010
FIFPro World Young Player of the Year: 3
2006, 2007, 2008
FIFPro Special Young Player of the Year: 2
2007, 2008
FIFPro World XI: 4
2007, 2008, 2009, 2010
FIFA U-20 World Cup Player of the Tournament: 1
2005
FIFA U-20 World Cup top goalscorer: 1
2005
Copa América Young Player of the Tournament: 1
2007
World Soccer Player of the Year: 1
2009
World Soccer Young Player of the Year: 3
2006, 2007, 2008
FIFA Club World Cup Golden Ball: 1
2009
ESM Team of the Year: 5
2005–06, 2007–08, 2008–09, 2009–10, 2010–11
Onze d'Or: 2
2009, 2010
Bravo Award: 1
2007
Tuttosport Golden Boy: 1
2005
Marca Leyenda: 1
2009
UEFA best goal of the year: 1
2007

bullvine

I disagree, all the great players have performed at a world cup with the exception of Di Stefano probably and that was a long time ago.

And when I say great I mean the top 4 or 5 in history.

rickyjb

PARKHEAD67 wrote: »

Ronaldo was genius-like too.

Agree. The fat ronaldo was the best I've seen.

bullvine

Also, if you wanna pull stats from Wikipedia as above, try pulling Brazilian Ronaldo's, they are equally as impressive as Messi.

Brendan97

I know messi has good players around him but if you put any other player ever on that team not many would do as well as him.

the only difference between pele or maradona & messi is that maradona and pele could carry a team by themselves, messi needs a good ball to him to work his magic meaning to play good he needs good players around him

Zidane is my favourite player of all time. Absolute genuis, just strolled around the pitch not giving a ****.

k.p.h

Too hard to call really, and also too hard to put into context. Could say who was the best when they were in form or else who was the best over their career.

Zidane, Ronaldo, Messi are probably the bunch you could pick any match out of their career and be guaranteed some magic even if the overall performance was not their.

When I ever have this conversation with the lads it always ends up being the best in their position because by the nature of the argument players that were incredible get left out because of their type of game. Franco Baresi should probably get a mention but he is only a boring ol defender.

Warper

bullvine wrote: »

I disagree, all the great players have performed at a world cup with the exception of Di Stefano probably and that was a long time ago.

And when I say great I mean the top 4 or 5 in history.

So basically all British and Irish players can never be considered great. Same goes for all Asian and African players. Players like Best, Weah, Van Basten, C Ronaldo, Batistuta etc. can never be great players using your logic.

aidan24326

sugarman wrote: »

Zinedane? Best player ive ever seen in the flesh, or full stop. Could have easily carried on at the top level for another 2/3yrs if he wished. Was insrtumental in seeing france reach the 2010 wc finals, he single handly guided them there.

Nobody to this day compares to him, not even messi. He has a few more years to show himself up tho, early days yet.

That's just not true. As brilliant as Zidane was, Messi is on another level again. His goalscoring record is phenomenal, another hat trick last night. I always thought I'd never again see a player like Maradona, but Messi is well on his way to changing my mind on that one. He's unmarkable and his touch and skill is as near to Maradona as I've seen. Both are better than Pele imo.

Warper

bullvine wrote: »

Also, if you wanna pull stats from Wikipedia as above, try pulling Brazilian Ronaldo's, they are equally as impressive as Messi.

Ronaldo's Club career Apps 518 Goals 352 (1993 - 2011) 18 years

That is his entire career.

Remember Messi has turned 24 and has over 200 club goals already so equally as impressive is wrong.

Johner

Messi
Ronaldo(Brazil)
Zidane

The best three I have seen and in that order.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

My favourite player ever is Zidane, closely followed by Ronaldinho. But the best player I have ever seen is Messi, and it's not even close. He is a goal machine.
Xavi, Zidane, Scholes, Maldini and Ronaldo (Br) are the next bracket down.
I don't think C. Ronaldo deserves to be mentioned with the above players, whatever about the argument about him not performing in the big games, he never really does catch the eye against the big teams.

Son Of A Vidic

losthorizon wrote: »

I cant believe nobody has mentioned Zico or Socrates.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARpEnjZIWko

I did mention Zico before you posted that and I also mentioned the magical '82' Brazilian team - the greatest team never to win the World Cup. To busy walking the the Ball into the net they were. Pele called Zico the 'White Pele'.

Zico is my number 1.

Great vid btw.