Zinedane Zidane.

Bodhisopha

Dotrel wrote: »

It would be if he left his well oiled machine at Barca and La Liga behind and went to the Prem or Italy and won it all again there too. If he did that then I'd agree with you.

"Won it all again there too"? Zidane didn't win a Champions League with Juve, unfortunately.

Dotrel

Bodhisopha wrote: »

"Won it all again there too"? Zidane didn't win a Champions League with Juve, unfortunately.

He won a league in two countries, which was my statement from the start.

Bodhisopha

Dotrel wrote: »

He won a league in two countries, which was my statement from the start.

True, not bad. But upon closer inspection it's not that impressive. 2 in Italy and only 1 in Spain for a club who at the time were buying up the best players in the game.

Dotrel

Bodhisopha wrote: »

True, not bad. But upon closer inspection it's not that impressive. 2 in Italy and only 1 in Spain for a club who at the time were buying up the best players in the game.

Still think it's more impressive than winning it under the conditions Xavi has (ie in settled his native country, surrounded by arguably the best players in the world also, playing a system that suits them perfectly and under much more harmonious management conditions). Barca win because of doing everything right. To a degree clubs run like Madrid win in spite of their buying power not because of it.

(Prefer Barca myself btw)

tdv123

bullvine wrote: »

Surely Baresi was a little before the rest of them?

Will it was around 89 when I started watching football. Maradona was a bit past his best at this time. Baresi still performed at a very high level from 89 - around 94. Captaining Milan to 5 european cup finals at this time (winning 3)

His performance in the 1994 world cup final is still the best defensive display I've seen from any defender.

tdv123

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Which Ronaldo?

Anyway, I've always preferred Ronadinho, what a superstar he was! Absolutely amazing imo.

The Brazil one.

blue-army

Johner wrote: »

Messi
Ronaldo(Brazil)
Zidane

The best three I have seen and in that order.

Agreed.

Special mention goes to Rivaldo.. who, on the top of his game, was completely unplayable.
His antics at WC2002 let him down bigtime though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0qi0jeyWGM

best hat-trick of all time I reckon!

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Dotrel wrote: »

Still think it's more impressive than winning it under the conditions Xavi has (ie in settled his native country, surrounded by arguably the best players in the world also, playing a system that suits them perfectly and under much more harmonious management conditions). Barca win because of doing everything right. To a degree clubs run like Madrid win in spite of their buying power not because of it.

(Prefer Barca myself btw)

Eh, FYI Xavi's first league medal wasn't 2009. That's pretty much complete bollocks.

bullvine

I would have Xavi any day over Zidane, this Barca Team is driven by him, I actually think hes a little underated.

rossc007

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Maradona was the best I've seen.

Not just because of the World Cup - but because in an Era where Serie A was by far the best league in the World he took a relatively 'small' club to two Serie A titles and a UEFA cup in an Era where he was up against Saachi's Milan, Trap's Juve then Trap's Inter - and in a league where the best players in the world were playing at the time.

He made the best defenders in the World at the time look like clowns in some games - check out the Napoli:Milan game from 1988 where they (Napoli) took the Milan defence apart and beat them 4:1.

Second would be Brazilian Ronaldo up until he got badly injured at Inter.

I'd put Messi third.

As a Juve fan I'd rate Alex Del Piero and Pavel Nedved ahead of Zidane for Juve - although not ahead of Zidane overall as he was immense for France and Real.

Napoli had some real stars at the club when they won the Seria A title and where not a small club. The ones I remember where Careca, De Napoli and later Alemao.

Dotrel

THFC wrote: »

Eh, FYI Xavi's first league medal wasn't 2009. That's pretty much complete bollocks.

Never said it was. I'm comparing players who win the league in two or more of the top countries vs players who dont. So your point is pretty much complete bollocks (to use your eloquent language).

gosplan

bullvine wrote: »

I would have Xavi any day over Zidane, this Barca Team is driven by him, I actually think hes a little underated.

Xavi's special, he really is but Zidane was more than special.When he played a good game he was simply the best player you'd ever seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3pZRuMaacI

PARKHEAD67

gosplan wrote: »

Xavi's special, he really is but Zidane was more than special.When he played a good game he was simply the best player you'd ever seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3pZRuMaacI

\exactly.

Oat23

Going to see Him, Ronaldo, Figo etc. in Hamburg on the 13th December in a charity match against HSV. Can't wait

Collina reffing :pac:

PARKHEAD67

Oatesy23 wrote: »

Going to see Him, Ronaldo, Figo etc. in Hamburg on the 13th December in a charity match against HSV. Can't wait

Collina reffing :pac:

Lucky you.HSV have rangers tendencies though.So unlucky you:D;)

Paparazzo

wandatowell wrote: »

Not liking this talk of medal haul. Not really a good indication of a players quality.

Agreed. You could argue David May is better than Roberto Baggio because May has a Champions League medal. Medal haul is pointless when you're talking about individual talents.

inmyday

Dempsey wrote: »

I do believe Messi scored a header in a Champions League final once

Google - Messi header

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk3ehSGgr1w

Bit of a crap video but its clips of messi heading the ball, and obviously he can head the ball... I think pele, comes across as petty. he obviously hates argentina, there is no need for him to open his mouth, he is a legend of the game.


This debate will never be settled. We all know the names of the best of the best, but not one can be number one.... The way people said messi hasnt done it at a world cup is all because he didnt go out and get goals in 5 games at 2010 wc(like he usually does with barca) i still think he played well, he also played well in 2006 when he came on a few times. He, of course is one of the best, even if he never plays in a world cup again.

I would have thought ronaldinho would have gotten more of a mention, as he had 4-6 years at the top, and won a world cup, we all know what happened to him, but i think he deserves to be up there.

Also, I dont really get the argument about players being kicked around the place by defenders in the "ole days".
In the game now a days, I think that at the highest levels, players are professional athletes, all fit and very strong, and my point being, if you can make a fool out of these type of players, then you must be something special.
If that makes sense to anyone i dont know.

Paparazzo

Any time anyone quotes Pele to back up their argument, this should be posted

http://www.goal.com/en/news/2377/top-10/2009/06/23/1338375/top-10-wrong-pele-predictions
Brilliant quote from Scolari: "If you want to win a title, you have to listen to Pele and then do the opposite."

Pele's prediction that Italy would beat Brazil on Sunday night went spectacularly wrong as the Selecao won 3-0. Every Tuesday, Goal.com publishes a new Top 10 - this week it is the Top 10 Wrong Pele Predictions...

Pele may have been one of the greatest players in the history of the game, having been part of three victorious World Cup teams in 1958, 1962 and 1970, but, since retiring, he has become less respected as a pundit off-the-pitch.

The Brazilian is infamous for his numerous wrong predictions over the years. Romario once declared that "Pele is a poet when he keeps his mouth shut", while coach Luiz Felipe Scolari delivered the legendary line, "I believe Pele knows nothing about football. His analysis always turns out to be wrong. If you want to win a title, you have to listen to Pele and then do the opposite."
Some people have labelled Pele as a 'jinx', and his curse continued on Sunday night when he predicted that Italy would beat Brazil in the Confederations Cup. The Azzurri were thumped 3-0 as they were sent packing from the tournament, and indeed the scoreline could have been heavier as Dunga's men hit the woodwork on two further occasions.

In light-hearted celebration of 'The King', Goal.com have put together the Top 10 Wrong Pele Predictions.

10) China 2002

Pele Prediction: China will qualify for the next round from their 2002 World Cup group.

Outcome: China finish bottom of Group C with no wins, no draws, no points, no goals, as well as -9 in their goal-difference column.

9) Spain 1998

Pele Prediction: Spain are favourites for the 1998 World Cup in France.

Outcome: Spain humiliatingly dumped out in the first round after losing to Nigeria, and drawing with Paraguay.

8) Colombia To Live American Dream

Pele Prediction: Colombia will win the 1994 World Cup in the USA.

Outcome: Colombia exit the competition in the first round, finishing bottom of their group. Their defender Andres Escobar is also tragically shot dead by an angry fan after Colombia return home.

7) Argentina, France & World Cup 2002

Pele Prediction: Argentina & France will both reach the final.

Outcome: Both countries eliminated in the first round, France without even scoring a goal.

6) Escape To Victory

Pele Prediction: During the famous film starring Sylvester Stallone and Michael Caine, Allies star Pele is brutally fouled in the first half by the Nazi opponents. The injured Brazilian claims there is no way he can continue and is carried off. The Allies are 4-0 down, and a recovery is deemed impossible.

Outcome: Pele returns in the second half and inspires his team to an improbable comeback, even scoring a stunning bicycle kick. Even in fiction, Pele's predictions go wrong.

5) Ronaldo Is Finished

Pele Prediction: Ronaldo will never play football again, and his career is over, following a serious injury for Milan in February 2008.

Outcome: Ronaldo returns in March 2009 for Corinthians, scoring 10 goals in his first 14 games to win the Campeonato Paulista. Rumoured to be on the verge of a national team recall.

4) Nii Lamptey – ‘The New Pele’

Pele Prediction: After starring in the 1991 Under-17 World Cup, which also featured Alessandro Del Piero, Pele proclaims Ghana youngster Lamptey as his successor, ‘The New Pele’.

Outcome: What happens next goes down in football infamy. Lamptey spectacularly fails to fulfil his talent, believing himself that he was cursed by dark forces. The midfielder shifts around clubs such as PSV, Aston Villa, Coventry, Venezia and Ankaragucu, without success, and endures tragedy in his personal life, as two of his children die.

3) Nicky Barmby - Up There With Zidane, Maldini & Ronaldo

Pele Prediction: Nicky Barmby will become a world class star.

Outcome: Nicky Barmby becomes nothing more than an average player, winning 23 England caps, and never even appearing in a World Cup.

2) Africa Will Rule

Pele Prediction: An African nation will win the World Cup before the year 2000.

Outcome: It is now 2009, and an African country has still yet to get past the quarter-final.

1) Brazil & World Cup 2002

Pele Prediction: Brazil won’t even get past the group stages.

Outcome: Brazil win the World Cup.

Bodhisopha

gosplan wrote: »

Xavi's special, he really is but Zidane was more than special.When he played a good game he was simply the best player you'd ever seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3pZRuMaacI

Not really, no.

rossc007

Bodhisopha wrote: »

Not really, no.

Good comeback :rolleyes:

Bodhisopha

rossc007 wrote: »

Good comeback :rolleyes:

"comeback"? It's not a schoolyard argument. Grow up, please.

PARKHEAD67

Bodhisopha wrote: »

"comeback"? It's not a schoolyard argument. Grow up, please.

Touchy:D

Fizman

gosplan wrote: »

Xavi's special, he really is but Zidane was more than special.When he played a good game he was simply the best player you'd ever seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3pZRuMaacI

I had almost forgotten just how good he was then. He does some simply breath taking stuff in that clip.

PARKHEAD67

Fizman wrote: »

I had almost forgotten just how good he was then. He does some simply breath taking stuff in that clip.

A genius with a football.An absolute genius:D

rossc007

Bodhisopha wrote: »

"comeback"? It's not a schoolyard argument. Grow up, please.

Saying "Not really, no" isn't any kind of argument, just shows your unwilling to contribute. So why bother?

Not normally one to bring back old threads but just watching this video again, he really was just that damn good!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYrWxb7UMVo

Seaneh

@1.25
Taxi for Puyol.

Skylinehead

Deleted User wrote: »

Not normally one to bring back old threads but just watching this video again, he really was just that damn good!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYrWxb7UMVo

I always found the English (hence Irish) media overhype Zidane a bit. Sure, he was a super player but this was in the spectacular things that he did. He actually drifted out of games quite a lot, and wasn't one to grab the game by the scruff of the neck and drive it on. It says a lot that many Juve fans rate Del Piero and Nedved being much more important to their team.

Mushy

That goal at 2.20:-O

Paul Tergat

Skylinehead wrote: »

It says a lot that many Juve fans rate Del Piero and Nedved being much more important to their team.

A big part of this would be that zidane left to a bigger club and onto better things. Fans dont like that. The other 2 played out their best years at Juve and so their reputation with the fans alone is better

roanoke

@ 4:49 The precise moment where Beckham thought "feck this, I'm joining Real Madrid".

messinkiapina

He was so graceful on the ball, poetry in motion, so much more elegant than CR for example. Not to say that CR isn't in the same class as him, but I'd much rather watch Zidane floating across the pitch than CR riverdancing on it.

Skylinehead

Paul Tergat wrote: »

A big part of this would be that zidane left to a bigger club and onto better things. Fans dont like that. The other 2 played out their best years at Juve and so their reputation with the fans alone is better

That's not it, from what I've heard they're not bitter at all. They got a world transfer record fee for him, and spent that on Nedved, Thuram and Buffon. They promptly won the league for the first time in 3 years.

Jimmy Iovine

Watch this video for what is the best performance by a player that I've ever seen in a big match.

Zidane played like a man possessed. I watched this in a ferry terminal in Dover, hours before getting the ferry over to France. I was over there for the final. Man, it was awkward in the pub after the match.

Whatever about Zidane's antics in extra-time, he was magical in the Brazil match.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF2YhO_8yNs

Or you can watch this for his highlights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XupKPQlOHqA

Of course, the fact that he was wearing the nicest boots ever made helped significantly :pac:.

Richard Hillman

Im on the phone so it's hard to get links but with the strong talk of Juventus doping throughout the 90s and 00s, would Zidanes reputation be diminished?

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Deleted User wrote: »

Not normally one to bring back old threads but just watching this video again, he really was just that damn good!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYrWxb7UMVo

Is that 3 of the Milan team he made an absolute fool of @1.00? Made them look silly.

Corholio

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Im on the phone so it's hard to get links but with the strong talk of Juventus doping throughout the 90s and 00s, would Zidanes reputation be diminished?

Zidane in 2008

"Doping was a bad thing. We used to take creatine in Turin, it was illegal in France but not in Italy. I don't think it was dangerous"

Is this the same thing the Dutch channel showed a documentary on in May?

Paul Tergat

Skylinehead wrote: »

That's not it, from what I've heard they're not bitter at all. They got a world transfer record fee for him, and spent that on Nedved, Thuram and Buffon. They promptly won the league for the first time in 3 years.

I dont think I expressed my point correctly.

If they had him in his peak years (i.e. his Madrid time) I believe they would say he was more important to the team than Nedved at least and most likely Del Piero also.

Skylinehead

Paul Tergat wrote: »

I dont think I expressed my point correctly.

If they had him in his peak years (i.e. his Madrid time) I believe they would say he was more important to the team than Nedved at least and most likely Del Piero also.

Zidane moved to Madrid aged 29. It's fair to say that Juve had him in his prime.

Richard Hillman

Corholio wrote: »

Zidane in 2008

"Doping was a bad thing. We used to take creatine in Turin, it was illegal in France but not in Italy. I don't think it was dangerous"

Is this the same thing the Dutch channel showed a documentary on in May?

I think the dutch documentary highlighted more than the creatine. I can't seem to find links to the programme but it was discussed in another thread.

Paul Tergat

Skylinehead wrote: »

Zidane moved to Madrid aged 29. It's fair to say that Juve had him in his prime.

I dont believe so. I think he was better for Madrid. Its not like he went there as a 35 year old.

Anyway, it was only a minor point. Im sure we can agree the guy was a genius

Call Me Jimmy

Not sure how to rate the top players, like best of all time not sure.

But Zidane's balance and the unique ease with which he seemed to move around the pitch always struck me when I watched him at Real Madrid. For the time I was watching football most he was my favourite player.

Frankie Lee

There was systemic doping happening at Juventus during that era as evidenced by every player who played in the 1996 CL final retrospectively failed drug tests for EPO

http://m.20minutes.fr/sport/1159927-20130522-joeuurs-juventus-etaient-dopes-a-epo-selon-scientifiques-neerlandais
Badly translated

FOOTBALL - In the final of the Champions League won against Ajax Amsterdam ...

The players of Juventus, winning the final of the League (formerly Cup) champions against Ajax Amsterdam in 1996, were doped to play this game, say Italian scientists quoted Wednesday by the Dutch public television NOS. Giuseppe d'Onofrio and Alessandro Donati, two Italian scientists presented by NOS as specialists doping draw their conclusion after having access to the documents seized during the search of premises of Juve in 1998.

For two scientists cited by the NOS, there is little doubt, given the particular documents containing analyzes of blood samples of players, the Turin "were prepared EPO" before final against Ajax .

According to its website, the NOS broadcast Sunday evening at 22:15 (8:15 p.m. GMT) a full report expected to support the claims of Onofrio and Donati. Among the players who won the final of the C1 in 1996, included the current coach of the team of France, Didier Deschamps, repeatedly suspected of having used EPO during his career.

Edgar Davids of course also failed a drugs test. Great players, all frauds.

NIMAN

I think in years to come we will be shocked by what might actually come out about some very high profile players. Did Zidane dope? Quite possibly, but for me it would have had nothing to do with the skill level he had as a player. When I was at Hampden to see him score that goal in the CL final of 2002, drugs didn't make him volley it any better.

We are hearing so much rumour and internet chat about the current Spain and Barca teams, and their links with dodgy doctors. Xavi used to be a very injury prone player now he can run forever and seems almost superhuman at times. Messi too was injury prone, and up until the end of last season seemed to reach new fitness levels.

It may continue as rumour and personal opinion for years to come and the truth may never come out, and some may never believe that certain stars are capable of cheating. Just look at some of Ireland's top cyclists and swimmers as an example of this.

Ardent

Deleted User wrote: »

Not normally one to bring back old threads but just watching this video again, he really was just that damn good!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYrWxb7UMVo

One of the best. The most graceful footballer I have ever seen, he was a pleasure to watch.

losthorizon

Virtually every English player took Creatine.

http://www.lamuscle.com/magazine/article/footballers-creatine

In fact some LOI players who were training full time and went to England and came back to play friendlies or such like a few months later despite not training any more or the same would have huge muscle development.

I can think of two in particular.

Colin Jackson pontificating about drug use on Athletics coverage on the BBC was a huge creatine user.

Drugs are virtually ignored in American team sports. Americans own loads of English football teams. English and British cyclists up to no good never mentioned or hinted by the BBC. Ask cycling enthusiasts and they will tell you they are no different.



http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football-a-craze-that-is-creatine-tension-1196367.html

Richard Hillman

Zidane admitted to taking creatine but that era at Juventus was riddled with doping. It was more than creatine being used.

If people are willing to ignore football doping then should we also return to celebrate Lance Armstrong? and in the day that is in it, Tyson Gay and Asafa Powell too?

I think that football needs to face up to the fact that a lot of "The great players" and teams of the 90s, 00s and 10s are achieving false glory.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

It seems to me that the game is absolutely riddled with drugs.

I think in maybe 10 years time we'll look back at the nineties and noughties as a dark period in the game. The Spanish and Italians seem particularly bad, and hopefully any team caught in any doping scandals will be stripped of all titles, including world cups and CLs. It's honestly making me lose faith in the game, all this evidence coming to light.

event

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Zidane admitted to taking creatine but that era at Juventus was riddled with doping. It was more than creatine being used.

If people are willing to ignore football doping then should we also return to celebrate Lance Armstrong? and in the day that is in it, Tyson Gay and Asafa Powell too?

I think that football needs to face up to the fact that a lot of "The great players" and teams of the 90s, 00s and 10s are achieving false glory.

can ye back that up there with proof?

losthorizon

Creatine is NOT banned