Zinedane Zidane.

Richard Hillman

event wrote: »

can ye back that up there with proof?

Was Armstrong ever officially caught?

mitosis

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Was Armstrong ever officially caught?

So, can you support your allegation?

event

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Was Armstrong ever officially caught?

No.

can you back up your original statement?

Richard Hillman

mitosis wrote: »

So, can you support your allegation?

Yeah I have lots of Blood bags in the attic. I might destroy them like they did in Spain.

mitosis

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Yeah I have lots of Blood bags in the attic. I might destroy them like they did in Spain.

Is that a "No", then?

Balmed Out

What are ppl banging on about creatine for? Perfectly legal.

Richard Hillman

Back to the love in then guys. There was no systematic doping at Juventus and Real SpainCelona are also clean.

It's just those devilish cyclists and 100 meter sprinters that are into that lark.


Zidane and the fine upstanding
establishment of Juventus remain unsullied

mitosis

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Back to the love in then guys. There was no systematic doping at Juventus and Real SpainCelona are also clean.

It's just those devilish cyclists and 100 meter sprinters that are into that lark.

Look, if you show me evidence I'll gladly look at it. There is all sorts of proof available for athletes and cyclists, and some footballers have been caught for doping.
But while it seems an out of proportion number were in Italy, guess what? Italy is the only place where proper testing has been done for the last 20 years, and several of those caught in Italy weren't there long enough to have doped there, Jap Stam comes to mind. While in England, for example, the testers often remarked the only players ever at the ground when they showed up were the suspended and injured.......

Donnielighto

In fairness he said he thinks, so it's an opinion.

Fwiw I think there is a fair bit of it goin on though I would think the pl might be less susceptible due to the way they view the game. At any rate it isnt new as german in 1954??? And cryuffs ajax and holland were juicing. Valencia spain and barca have all had accusations levelled by people who should know. I'd say its naive to think otherwise. Hell there are rugby players using hgh for recovery and stephen roche was defo on somethin.

kenco

Had the great pleasure of seeing Brady and
McGrath in their primes (and they were special) nothing compares to ZZ when I saw him in Landsdowne in '07. He was (moronically) booed
that night which disgusted me as he owned the
park Inc one R Keane which is no mean feat.

One of the greats if not the greatest

Frankie Lee

mitosis wrote: »

Look, if you show me evidence I'll gladly look at it. There is all sorts of proof available for athletes and cyclists, and some footballers have been caught for doping.
But while it seems an out of proportion number were in Italy, guess what? Italy is the only place where proper testing has been done for the last 20 years, and several of those caught in Italy weren't there long enough to have doped there, Jap Stam comes to mind. While in England, for example, the testers often remarked the only players ever at the ground when they showed up were the suspended and injured.......

There is very stringent testing in Athletics and Cycling and still people are getting away with it. Football testing is a joke in comparison and financial rewards for cheating are far higher so it is inevitable that cheating is rife.

losthorizon

mitosis wrote: »

Look, if you show me evidence I'll gladly look at it. There is all sorts of proof available for athletes and cyclists, and some footballers have been caught for doping.
But while it seems an out of proportion number were in Italy, guess what? Italy is the only place where proper testing has been done for the last 20 years, and several of those caught in Italy weren't there long enough to have doped there, Jap Stam comes to mind. While in England, for example, the testers often remarked the only players ever at the ground when they showed up were the suspended and injured.......

Too true Italy had put in a comprehensive system of testing before many other nations. That is not to say it was anything to write home about. But english football had to be made to test. Even the LOI and the FAI had a better system of testing in place than the English game. Now thats saying something.

I remember testers hanging around Turners Cross in the late 90's early 00s?long before a system was put in place in England properly.

event

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Back to the love in then guys. There was no systematic doping at Juventus and Real SpainCelona are also clean.

It's just those devilish cyclists and 100 meter sprinters that are into that lark.


Zidane and the fine upstanding
establishment of Juventus remain unsullied

no one is saying its a love in, dont be a child.
but when people start to make claims about drug use and PED's, you should really be able to back it up.

MD1990

losthorizon wrote: »

Virtually every English player took Creatine.

http://www.lamuscle.com/magazine/article/footballers-creatine

In fact some LOI players who were training full time and went to England and came back to play friendlies or such like a few months later despite not training any more or the same would have huge muscle development.

I can think of two in particular.

Colin Jackson pontificating about drug use on Athletics coverage on the BBC was a huge creatine user.

Drugs are virtually ignored in American team sports. Americans own loads of English football teams. English and British cyclists up to no good never mentioned or hinted by the BBC. Ask cycling enthusiasts and they will tell you they are no different.



http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football-a-craze-that-is-creatine-tension-1196367.html

Creatine isnt a drug

losthorizon

I didnt say it was. That was the point I was trying to make.

Cienciano

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Back to the love in then guys. There was no systematic doping at Juventus and Real SpainCelona are also clean.

It's just those devilish cyclists and 100 meter sprinters that are into that lark.


Zidane and the fine upstanding
establishment of Juventus remain unsullied

I'd say a hell of a lot of clubs are using illegal drugs. And if it's not illegal, they probably know the loopholes. But the fact is, players like Zidane have amazing skill. If he took EPO, that would improve his stamina. He still has the same ball control, trickery and vision. Where the likes of cyclists and sprinters taking performance enhancing drugs, it directly relates to their times/speeds.
Obviously drug taking in football is bad and it does improve performances, but it can't make a bad/average player a great/world class player.

Frankie Lee

Before he went to Juventus at the age of 24 he was a good player but I doubt anyone thought he would go on to be the player he was. Man Utd, Newcastle and Blackburn all turned down opportunities to sign him. Zidane improved immeasurably when he joined Juventus the club who systemically doped their players. Then Real Madrid was another excellent place to be for Zidane.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

event wrote: »

can ye back that up there with proof?

"I saw well-known footballers [being treated by Fuentes], but I cannot say how many," - Jesus Manzano

Read this thread, opening post has plenty of quotes.

This quote is particularly shocking:

"If I would talk, the Spanish football team would be stripped of the 2010 World Cup" - Eufemiano Fuentes

NIMAN

Frankie Lee wrote: »

Before he went to Juventus at the age of 24 he was a good player but I doubt anyone thought he would go on to be the player he was. Man Utd, Newcastle and Blackburn all turned down opportunities to sign him. Zidane improved immeasurably when he joined Juventus the club who systemically doped their players. Then Real Madrid was another excellent place to be for Zidane.

Man Utd were hot favs to buy Zidane before Euro96, but he had a poor tournament, and Poborsky had a great one. They lost interest in Zidane and bought the current 'in thing'. The rest is history.

For me this just shows that they bought the wrong man, based on the fact that he had a few bad games. That shows they didn't scout him properly, cos if they did they would have known how good he was. If you buy a guy based on a few good performances, like Poborsky, then you only have yourself to blame whenever he disappoints.

Corholio

Frankie Lee wrote: »

Before he went to Juventus at the age of 24 he was a good player but I doubt anyone thought he would go on to be the player he was. Man Utd, Newcastle and Blackburn all turned down opportunities to sign him. Zidane improved immeasurably when he joined Juventus the club who systemically doped their players. Then Real Madrid was another excellent place to be for Zidane.

He didn't actually improve when he joined Juventus. His first season was a bit up and down as he was playing as a defensive midfielder. When he was moved further up was when his talent came to the fore. I've no idea if Zidane took drugs, but his talent had a lot more to do with what he's known for then drugs.

764dak

Amirani

Corholio wrote: »

He didn't actually improve when he joined Juventus. His first season was a bit up and down as he was playing as a defensive midfielder. When he was moved further up was when his talent came to the fore. I've no idea if Zidane took drugs, but his talent had a lot more to do with what he's known for then drugs.

Completely agreed, on both points.