Clarify a couple of points in applying for H Dip please!

Lookingfor Help

Hi there, I am currently in process of applying for the H Dip. I have completed my degree in business studies in DCU, 5 years ago now and have been working full time since in an admin/business role. I know I don't appear to stand a chance in getting it as unfortunately I have no teaching practice, however I know this is what I want to do and where I want my future career, and feel the last few years has given me the confidence and dealings with lots of different personality types that I would need in the role as teacher if this counts at all I wonder? I cannot seem to find the points calculator on PAC site just wondering if this still applies?

I am just slightly confused re applying - I have degree in business studies and would apply to teach this, however how does the second subject work? Do you need degree for both or could I apply for geography as second subject - have a keen interest in this area - My take from it is that it appears I can only apply for one subject given my degree is just in business - or perhaps a breakaway from that such as economics or accounting.

Also re the academic referees that is needed on the application- I thought this was from a previous teacher or college but my husband is adamant this is a 'Qualified Person such as teacher, guard, nurse etc ...? Can someone advise please?! I left school 9 years ago but could try get a reference ... Our college classes were so big that Iecturers would not have known me one on one! I don't want to ask my manager in work as would not be advertising the fact I am applying , just the way things are at the moment ..

Third and last question please! The letters required along with the application to prove you have done your degree- I have my degree cert, just not sure if this fulfils criteria or do you need an actual letter from your undergrad college?

Thanks to anyone who can help out, Any help, suggestions, hints & tips all very much appreciated!!! all I can do is try I guess!
Lookingfor Help

glenn3ie

Have a look at the two year part-time PGDE course in DCU. It may be possible for you to get a few hours in a school to make up the required hours and also continue in your job.

Lookingfor Help

glenn3ie wrote: »

Have a look at the two year part-time PGDE course in DCU. It may be possible for you to get a few hours in a school to make up the required hours and also continue in your job.

Hi thanks for reply, if I was successful however I would give up work for the year, would be great to get help on above points if anyone has any info! Thanks again.

Rosita

Lookingfor Help wrote: »

Hi there, I am currently in process of applying for the H Dip. I have completed my degree in business studies in DCU, 5 years ago now and have been working full time since in an admin/business role. I know I don't appear to stand a chance in getting it as unfortunately I have no teaching practice, however I know this is what I want to do and where I want my future career, and feel the last few years has given me the confidence and dealings with lots of different personality types that I would need in the role as teacher if this counts at all I wonder? I cannot seem to find the points calculator on PAC site just wondering if this still applies?

I am just slightly confused re applying - I have degree in business studies and would apply to teach this, however how does the second subject work? Do you need degree for both or could I apply for geography as second subject - have a keen interest in this area - My take from it is that it appears I can only apply for one subject given my degree is just in business - or perhaps a breakaway from that such as economics or accounting.

Also re the academic referees that is needed on the application- I thought this was from a previous teacher or college but my husband is adamant this is a 'Qualified Person such as teacher, guard, nurse etc ...? Can someone advise please?! I left school 9 years ago but could try get a reference ... Our college classes were so big that Iecturers would not have known me one on one! I don't want to ask my manager in work as would not be advertising the fact I am applying , just the way things are at the moment ..

Third and last question please! The letters required along with the application to prove you have done your degree- I have my degree cert, just not sure if this fulfils criteria or do you need an actual letter from your undergrad college?

Thanks to anyone who can help out, Any help, suggestions, hints & tips all very much appreciated!!! all I can do is try I guess!
Lookingfor Help

It's not clear where you intend to apply for but Teaching experience is no longer considered as part of the application process for the NUI colleges. DCU and TCD do interviews so presumably experience counts in those cases. The information on the PAC website regarding the course is certainly not as clear as it used to be but the link here should provide information on the points:

http://www.pac.ie//pdeinfo/PointsCalc.php?inst=pe (When you open this link go immediately to the right hand side of the screen and click on 'quotas' which will be of great relevance to you as a Business graduate as there is a different points system for such people)


How does the second subject work? With the exception of a few marginal subjects you must have a degree in the subject or the subject must constitute 30 per cent of your degree depending on how your degree is constructed. So for example, you cannot elect to teach something like Geography just because you fancy it somewhat. That can be left to degree holders who will ultimately be the only people qualified and registered to teach the subject anyway.

The 'exceptions' refers to subjects like SPHE and CSPE which are seemingly not required to be taught by specialist teachers (informally within schools anyway - the Teaching Council might have other ideas and I think there might be some qualifying courses for aspirant teachers of SPHE at least). Some Dip students use these subjects as a 'second subject' option for the purposes of teaching practice when they have no qualfication in a regular second subject which implies something about the standing of such subjects in schools.

But for mainstream subjects obviously one needs to be qualifed to degree level though it is astonishing how many people like to push the boundaries on this one, especially when they presumably would object to their own subject being tackled by a non-specialist. Depending on the make up of your degree there might be a second subject in there anyway e.g. accounting or economics, though it is likely to be a marginal subject in the school context - that is to say that not all schools might teach it.

Academic Referee? This should be a lecturer or tutor from your college - someone with first-hand experience of your academic work. With the best will in the world the local Garda or Nurse will have no authority to comment on your academic prowess. Don't worry too much about the time lapse since your degree and going back to people who might not specifically remember you in DCU. They will have access to your records, will be used to such requests and will deal with it I'm sure.

The letters required along with the application to prove you have done your degree? I'm not too sure about this. When I applied for the Dip I included my degree results for the entire time - the details as far as I recall were filled out on an application form and the results just backed it up. The 'parchment' did not enter into it, nor was I required to provide a letter of confirmation of attendance/graduation - official original (not photocopied) results transcripts did the business. You could call into registry in DCU and they would sort you out I am sure. If you intend to apply for the Dip on 1st December you should do this quickly to allow for any delay. But make sure you know what you actually need first.

Lookingfor Help

Rosita, thank you so much for your reply - much appreciated. I was hoping to get TCD as it is very near for me to travel to, however if it meant getting a place i would also travel to Maynooth or ucd - anywhere that would have me I guess! I am going to contact DCU re the referees & also final year results too ..
It appears from the PAC website you can apply to more than 1 institute - i.e TCD, Maynooth & UCD - I hope I'm correct in that .. I had read about the quotas re the business before too but I am going to try out & see what happens!

Thanks again for such a detailed reply, much appreciated !

PeeWe

TCD is a separate application on PAC but it's pretty much the same procedure as the NUI application. Trinity give you good scope to tell them about your experience with a personal statement. Ultimately with Trinity you get your place based on the interview.

Hibernia are also offering a PDE online now also, you will find all details in their website.

Best of luck :-)

Lookingfor Help

Hi @PeeWe, thanks for your reply!

Have been looking up places all afternoon today (day off work!)

I had myself confused with the subjects I think - I would be applying for the business course but am confused with the second pedagogy subject - if you choose Business as a major, it seems to be like you can choose a non timetable conflicting second minor subject & I was wondering - does this classify as your second teaching subject - i.e. i would have a big interest in both english & geography & I am curious if I was to take one as a minor subject are you then qualified to teach that subject also (even though your degree is in business?)

I have seen the online course too, for the moment i am going to try apply & hopefully be successful in getting the full time course (my work would not be at all flexible to allow me the teaching practice hours, so for the time am saving up in case I do get! If not will apply again next year)

Sorry for all the questions but as soon as I think I have it figured out I get myself confused again!

thanks again,
Lookingfor Help

Moody_mona

Lookingfor Help wrote: »

i would have a big interest in both english & geography & I am curious if I was to take one as a minor subject are you then qualified to teach that subject also (even though your degree is in business?)

Rosita already answered that question for you. If you didn't do your degree in it you will not be qualified to teach it.



Try downloading the document at this site. Search for your undergraduate and if it is there, it will specify what subjects you are qualified to teach based on the course content. You could then enter that as your second subject on the application form.

http://www.teachingcouncil.ie/applying-to-register/required-degree-and-teacher-education-qualification-post-primary.495.html

vallo

Can anyone explain what the asterisks and 1s and 2s in the "Degree", "Teacher Training" and especially "Time Tabling" columns in this doc refer to?

Moody_mona

vallo wrote: »

Can anyone explain what the asterisks and 1s and 2s in the "Degree", "Teacher Training" and especially "Time Tabling" columns in this doc refer to?

I'm not sure about the timetabling. The asterisks are just "ticks". For example I did Science Education in DCU so I get an asterisk under Degree because it was a four year degree and Teacher Training because it was a concurrent education degree. I suppose that's just for you to deduce whether or not a hdip/pgde/pde is needed after the actual degree.

Lookingfor Help

Moody_mona wrote: »

vallo wrote: »

Can anyone explain what the asterisks and 1s and 2s in the "Degree", "Teacher Training" and especially "Time Tabling" columns in this doc refer to?

I'm not sure about the timetabling. The asterisks are just "ticks". For example I did Science Education in DCU so I get an asterisk under Degree because it was a four year degree and Teacher Training because it was a concurrent education degree. I suppose that's just for you to deduce whether or not a hdip/pgde/pde is needed after the actual degree.

Hi @ moody mona, thanks for reply, when I looked at Tcd website it seemed that your major subject was your degree and then you could pick a minor one too ... I did business in DCU and from the link it seems to me this allows for not only business but accounting and economics too, there are so many sites I seem to be confusing myself more and more. In my final year I took law as the specialist module but my degree is business so am unsure if this also allows for accounting and economics as second dubject as they were undertaken in first two years ... On the application firm you only enter one course code - for me business - then it notes you take a second minor subject and I thought perhaps that allowed you to teach that subject, given you can only enter one subject as your major on the app.

Thanks again!

Moody_mona

Lookingfor Help wrote: »

there are so many sites I seem to be confusing myself more and more.

Focus on the Teaching Council because ultimately it's up to them, end of! An email to them might be a good idea but I'm not sure how quickly you would get a response. Ask them a specific question or else they'll rattle off some spiel about they only deal with this that or the other. I would state that you completed the business course in DCU, majoring in Law, and ask does this affect your subjects or would you be qualified to teach Business, Economics and Accounting (or whatever it says).

As far as I know, and this may be completely wrong someone please correct me, the subjects you are qualified to teach depends entirely on your undergrad and not at all on the methodologies chosen for PGDE.

Toto Wolfcastle

If you did the Bachelor of Business Studies in DCU then you will be qualified to teach Business, Accounting and Economics on completion of the PDE according to the list on www.pac.ie. If you only did accounting and economics for 2 years of your course then you shouldn't be qualified to teach them because usually you need to have done them over 3 years. You should check with the Teaching Council

Presumably accounting and economics aren't offered as separate methodology classes and are incorporated into business. However, you have to do two and that is why they ask for your minor subject. Many people would be qualified to teach two separate subjects, for example English and History, and would take those subjects. If you do not have a second separate subject then you should choose something like CSPE. You probably could choose English or Geography for the purposes of the PDE but you will not be qualified to teach a subject that you did not do as part of your degree. Subjects like CSPE and SPHE are generally given to teachers as timetable fillers so it would be worth your while doing one of them as you are more likely to be asked to teach them. It is your degree that decides what you are qualified to teach. The PDE just teaches you how to teach your subjects.

whiteandlight

I know from a friend who did the trinity dip with only one teaching subject that he had to pick a second subject for methodologies even though the teaching council wouldn't register him to teach it. I think this may be what you are referring to with the major minor aspect?

Lookingfor Help

Musicmental85 wrote: »

I know from a friend who did the trinity dip with only one teaching subject that he had to pick a second subject for methodologies even though the teaching council wouldn't register him to teach it. I think this may be what you are referring to with the major minor aspect?

Hi music mental, yes that's it exactly!! Thank you! I wonder if I would be extremely un - employable with only one subject, as it seems for CSPE you need a degree in social studies ....
Thanks!

whiteandlight

If you have the choice don't pick cspe. See if you can wangle your way into Maths-you probably have some in your degree if it's busi ess. Even without a qualification for the tc you might get more substitution out of it

Rosita

Lookingfor Help wrote: »

it seems for CSPE you need a degree in social studies ....

According to the teaching council maybe. I doubt many Principals would see it that way.