Heineken Cup - General Discussion Thread

Burgo

durkadurka wrote: »

Who do we want to win?

Montpellier, stuck a few quid on them

Big Nelly

wixfjord wrote: »

Don't care what people say, Donald is a classy player.
No shame not being Dan Carter.

Some of hsi passes and touches today are pure class alright

Should have been a peno and red card there. Ref was unsighted but touch judge was 2 ft away and said nothing

Didnt even need to see the replay to see it.

Big Nelly

A draw now would be great:D

thomond2006

Bath win 16-13

wixfjord

Bath win.
Not too bad of a result tbh.
Montpellier will be well out by the time we get them last, and I don't think Bath are any great shakes at all.
Only thing is that we have them up first.

matthew8

I'm surprised Bath got away with that there, they basically held the ball in the same ruck for 30 seconds to let the clock run out.

tolosenc

matthew8 wrote: »

I'm surprised Bath got away with that there, they basically held the ball in the same ruck for 30 seconds to let the clock run out.

I'm surprised Montpellier didn't go for the drop as soon as it was on.

matthew8

tolosenc wrote: »

I'm surprised Montpellier didn't go for the drop as soon as it was on.

They didn't have very long to do it and I'm sure they would've wanted to wait until injury time anyway.

shuffol

Same story as Clermont last season, Leinster will be in the driving seat if they can take more points off Bath than they take off them in the double header. But no doubt about it Leinster should be going there expecting to win.

wixfjord

shuffol wrote: »

Same story as Clermont last season, Leinster will be in the driving seat if they can take more points off Bath than they take off them in the double header. But no doubt about it Leinster should be going there expecting to win.

Indeed.
A win away at Bath first would be huge though, both in terms of the group and of a possible home QF. If for example we got a LBP and won the second game, we'd probably looking at a far lower seed if we won the group.

I'd expect quite a few guys to be rested against Treviso, and a fairly fullish squad against Cardiff in the RDS the week after.

Would like to see Madigan get a start next week.

Also, did anyone notice the Irish guys being taken off in the last game or two. Rotation is definitely needed this year, and I'd expect the likes of SOB, Heaslip, Ross, Healy etc to get a lot less gametime.

iroced

Couldn't follow the Montpellier game. Just saw the disastrous beginning (10-0 after a couple of min). French media are saying that we can be a bit disappointed as we could have turned the game and won it. But I read that our try is spoiled by 2 forward passes... Ah a LBP is better than nothing.
Hopefully these 2 HEC games have raised our confidence for the TOP14 (apparently our scrum was very good). That should be our main target this season, try to come back up and play HEC next year again. With this year experience we'll have a better chance.

In the end, as I expected, it's going to be an easy group for Leinster. You have more quality, more depth in the squad and more experience.

matthew8

iroced wrote: »

Couldn't follow the Montpellier game. Just saw the disastrous beginning (10-0 after a couple of min). French media are saying that we can be a bit disappointed as we could have turned the game and won it. But I read that our try is spoiled by 2 forward passes... Ah a LBP is better than nothing.
Hopefully these 2 HEC games have raised our confidence for the TOP14 (apparently our scrum was very good). That should be our main target this season, try to come back up and play HEC next year again. With this year experience we'll have a better chance.

In the end, as I expected, it's going to be an easy group for Leinster. You have more quality, more depth in the squad and more experience.

Your scrum killed Bath's, Trinh-Duc played well again, only complaint I had about your performancewas Ouedraego was fairly anonymous. Still, from the first 2 games 3 points won't get you anywhere, it will take a miracle to get out of the pool, only way I can see you doing that is if you beat us.

iroced

matthew8 wrote: »

Still, from the first 2 games 3 points won't get you anywhere, it will take a miracle to get out of the pool, only way I can see you doing that is if you beat us.

Yeah, you're probably right. But there will be no shame of not getting out of this group for us. It's our first ever participation in the competition and we "prepared" it the worst possible way putting ourself in a very uncomfortable position in the TOP 14 and getting to the opening game against the defending champion in a complete unknown form (no confidence in the team + return of the internationals). It turned out to be a fantastic performance for us that could well be a new starting point in our season.

Then, if we win our 2 remaining home games and get a LBP in Glasgow, I'll be fairly happy. And if you win all your games we could finish second which would already be an achievement.

Big Nelly

wixfjord wrote: »

Also, did anyone notice the Irish guys being taken off in the last game or two. Rotation is definitely needed this year, and I'd expect the likes of SOB, Heaslip, Ross, Healy etc to get a lot less gametime.

Its going to have to be done after the WC and they will be all burned out by the end of season and we will win nothing.

I called at half time to empty the bench and thankful it happened. I would of liked to see Madigan get more game time. It took Sexton to have a nasty head clash to see him been taken off. Should have been off before that. Looked sore as well. He was still rubbing his head and wincing on the bench a good 15 mins after coming off

matthew8

iroced wrote: »

Yeah, you're probably right. But there will be no shame of not getting out of this group for us. It's our first ever participation in the competition and we "prepared" it the worst possible way putting ourself in a very uncomfortable position in the TOP 14 and getting to the opening game against the defending champion in a complete unknown form (no confidence in the team + return of the internationals). It turned out to be a fantastic performance for us that could well be a new starting point in our season.

Then, if we win our 2 remaining home games and get a LBP in Glasgow, I'll be fairly happy. And if you win all your games we could finish second which would already be an achievement.

You'll get more than a losing bonus point in Glasgow, I'm fairly sure of that.

totallegend

matthew8 wrote: »

You'll get more than a losing bonus point in Glasgow, I'm fairly sure of that.

Don't mind iroced, he knows exactly how good Montpellier are! Before the Leinster game, he was on here giving it all this about how he expected Leinster to wipe the floor with them, just an honour to be playing the champions of Europe etc, and then the team come out and steamroller us... The lad could teach the Kerry footballers a lesson in cute hoorism

At this very early stage, I'm expecting the pool winners to be:
P1: Scarlets; it's theirs to lose, if they come out even in the head to head with Munster they're in the driving seat.
P2: Cardiff; as with Scarlets, coming out even of the head to head with Edinburgh should see them top the group.
P3: Leinster; but the pool could be tighter than we all thought it would be.
P4: Clermont; tight pool but their squad is so deep and strong that they have to be favourites.
P5: Saracens; despite the loss yesterday, I think they'll edge it
P6: Toulouse; as for Clermont, a ridiculously deep squad.

I think Munster and Biarritz will be the best runners-up.

matthew8

totallegend wrote: »

Don't mind iroced, he knows exactly how good Montpellier are! Before the Leinster game, he was on here giving it all this about how he expected Leinster to wipe the floor with them, just an honour to be playing the champions of Europe etc, and then the team come out and steamroller us... The lad could teach the Kerry footballers a lesson in cute hoorism

At this very early stage, I'm expecting the pool winners to be:
P1: Scarlets; it's theirs to lose, if they come out even in the head to head with Munster they're in the driving seat.
P2: Cardiff; as with Scarlets, coming out even of the head to head with Edinburgh should see them top the group.
P3: Leinster; but the pool could be tighter than we all thought it would be.
P4: Clermont; tight pool but their squad is so deep and strong that they have to be favourites.
P5: Saracens; despite the loss yesterday, I think they'll edge it
P6: Toulouse; as for Clermont, a ridiculously deep squad.

I think Munster and Biarritz will be the best runners-up.

I wouldn't be so sure about the Scarlets. This season's campaign is a carbon copy of the one 2 years ago, though against better opposition. A win against the French team first, followed by a shock win in England and then they play Munster twice. And we all remember what Leinster did to them then.

wixfjord

matthew8 wrote: »

I wouldn't be so sure about the Scarlets. This season's campaign is a carbon copy of the one 2 years ago, though against better opposition. A win against the French team first, followed by a shock win in England and then they play Munster twice. And we all remember what Leinster did to them then.

They're a better team than then though, and have beaten better teams too.

durkadurka

I reckon munster will 'munster' them at least 6 points to 4 in the double header. Munster will then kill castres at home leaving them needing something to get in Northampton to qualify or win the group.

iroced

totallegend wrote: »

Don't mind iroced, he knows exactly how good Montpellier are! Before the Leinster game, he was on here giving it all this about how he expected Leinster to wipe the floor with them, just an honour to be playing the champions of Europe etc, and then the team come out and steamroller us... The lad could teach the Kerry footballers a lesson in cute hoorism

Haha ! I'll just correct you "I know exactly how good Montpellier can be" .
But, if you had seen any of Montpellier's games before the Leinster one, you couldn't honestly say that our display was not a big surprise.

And yes, it was an honour for the club to play the champions of Europe on our first ever H Cup game. They actually made a special jersey to celebrate it . And, we stepped up to the event by playing our best game of the season by far, which makes me very proud of my team.
But, despite our great game, we could only play for 60 min. You crushed us in the last 20 min during which I almost couldn't breathe as I was seeing Leinster coming closer and closer and closer.... And despite our heroic defense, you would have won "easily" if you had not commited so many attacking mistakes (bad passes, forward passes, knock on, bad inspiration, etc...).

Then, after 2 games the so-called champions of Europe are well ahead (despite not having played their best rugby). Glasgow beat Bath letting them take the LBP. Bath beat us and we got the LBP. You destroyed Glasgow.
So, I don't think I'm really underestimating my team's potential in saying that we should beat both Glasgow and Bath at home and get a LBP in Glasgow (an away victory is always tough in H Cup so it'll be a surprise if we get it). I'm expecting nothing from Dublin where we'll be hammered (I mean last year you beat Racing 38-22, Clermont 24-8 and Saracens 43-20, we're not in the same league as these clubs unless maybe Racing), unless you're already sure of having a home QF and put a second team out to rest your key players. And, yes, I think it's gonna be an "easy" group for Leinster .

greendom

wixfjord wrote: »

Bath win.
Not too bad of a result tbh.
Montpellier will be well out by the time we get them last, and I don't think Bath are any great shakes at all.
Only thing is that we have them up first.

How do you work that one out? 2 games against Glasgow and a home game against Bath - they could quite easily be on 15 points

wixfjord

greendom wrote: »

How do you work that one out? 2 games against Glasgow and a home game against Bath - they could quite easily be on 15 points

They're in the bottom 3 of the French league, and will more than likely throw in the towel after today.
They're more than likely out, and even if they aren't, they won't beat us in the Aviva at that stage of the year.
They've Toulouse at home and Biarritz (fellow strugglers) away before the next two rounds, are away to Glasgow first, and have Metro and Brive after the double header. The two Glasgee games will be the very least of their worries.

durkadurka

They're playing us in the rds, which is worse for them I think.

I suspect that Glasgow might front up at home to them.


I've said since the draw that bath away is the key game in terms of getting a home qf. Win that and we can book the aviva for 9th aPril or whenever.

wixfjord

durkadurka wrote: »

They're playing us in the rds, which is worse for them I think.

I suspect that Glasgow might front up at home to them.

Has that been announced yeah re RDS?
Certainly won't beat us there.

durkadurka

wixfjord wrote: »

Has that been announced yeah re RDS?
Certainly won't beat us there.

They are contracted to play 12 games in rds, which is 10 league games and two hec games. Only allows two regular season games to move to aviva. So yeah it's defo in rds.

wixfjord

durkadurka wrote: »

They are contracted to play 12 games in rds, which is 10 league games and two hec games. Only allows two regular season games to move to aviva. So yeah it's defo in rds.

Ah I see, probably wouldn't sell out anyway.

durkadurka

We filled or nearly filled aviva four times last year. I reckon you couldnt go to the well much more. Today didn't sell out for example because so many occasional match goers are going to the aviva games.

Taco Corp

wixfjord wrote: »

Robson is unbearable at all times.

I didn't see the match and therefore didn't hear Robson but eh.....FYP

.ak

Pity for Montpellier. Thought they were the better team in the second half. Would've loved a draw from a Leinster perspective.

irishbucsfan

totallegend wrote: »

P3: Leinster; but the pool could be tighter than we all thought it would be.

I actually think it will end up suiting Leinster perfectly from here on out:

Round 3
Leinster beat Bath in Bath, no BP
Glasgow beat Montpellier in Glasgow, LBP for Montpellier

Round 4
Leinster beat Bath in Dublin, bonus point (Bath will give up)
Montpellier beat Glasgow in Montpellier, LBP for Glasgow

After those games; Leinster 15, Glasgow 9, Montpellier 7, Bath 6

Round 5
Leinster beat Glasgow in Glasgow, no BP
Montpellier beat Bath in Montpellier, no BP

After those games; Leinster 19, Montpellier 11, Glasgow 9, Bath 6

Leinster qualify with 1 game to spare, only have to beat a disinterested Montpellier in the Aviva to secure #1 or 2 seeding.

Obviously things are never as simple as this, but I think it's quite likely to be what happens.

EKClarke

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I actually think it will end up suiting Leinster perfectly from here on out:

Round 3
Leinster beat Bath in Bath, no BP
Glasgow beat Montpellier in Glasgow, LBP for Montpellier

Round 4
Leinster beat Bath in Dublin, bonus point (Bath will give up)
Montpellier beat Glasgow in Montpellier, LBP for Glasgow

After those games; Leinster 15, Glasgow 9, Montpellier 7, Bath 6

Round 5
Leinster beat Glasgow in Glasgow, no BP
Montpellier beat Bath in Montpellier, no BP

After those games; Leinster 19, Montpellier 11, Glasgow 9, Bath 6

Leinster qualify with 1 game to spare, only have to beat a disinterested Montpellier in the Aviva to secure #1 or 2 seeding.

Obviously things are never as simple as this, but I think it's quite likely to be what happens.

You're going to jinx it.

pajunior

iroced wrote: »

Haha ! I'll just correct you "I know exactly how good Montpellier can be" .
But, if you had seen any of Montpellier's games before the Leinster one, you couldn't honestly say that our display was not a big surprise.

And yes, it was an honour for the club to play the champions of Europe on our first ever H Cup game. They actually made a special jersey to celebrate it . And, we stepped up to the event by playing our best game of the season by far, which makes me very proud of my team.
But, despite our great game, we could only play for 60 min. You crushed us in the last 20 min during which I almost couldn't breathe as I was seeing Leinster coming closer and closer and closer.... And despite our heroic defense, you would have won "easily" if you had not commited so many attacking mistakes (bad passes, forward passes, knock on, bad inspiration, etc...).

Then, after 2 games the so-called champions of Europe are well ahead (despite not having played their best rugby). Glasgow beat Bath letting them take the LBP. Bath beat us and we got the LBP. You destroyed Glasgow.
So, I don't think I'm really underestimating my team's potential in saying that we should beat both Glasgow and Bath at home and get a LBP in Glasgow (an away victory is always tough in H Cup so it'll be a surprise if we get it). I'm expecting nothing from Dublin where we'll be hammered (I mean last year you beat Racing 38-22, Clermont 24-8 and Saracens 43-20, we're not in the same league as these clubs unless maybe Racing), unless you're already sure of having a home QF and put a second team out to rest your key players. And, yes, I think it's gonna be an "easy" group for Leinster .

And the most humble man on boards.ie/rugby is a French man. Who would have guessed

GerM

Team of Round 2 - PlanetRugby

15 Mike Brown (Harlequins) - If you think of real club men then full-back Brown is one that immediately springs to mind. His man-of-the-match performance at Kingsholm saw him score an early try as Quins made it 12 straight wins this term. Mentions for Scarlet Liam Williams and Leinster's Rob Kearney.

14 Andrew Trimble (Ulster) - Now this was a tough call as both Martin Bustos Moyano and Tommy Bowe stood out for their respective sides while Isa Nacewa impressed in blue. But for his all-action showing at Welford Road we have gone for Trimble, who was tireless.

13 Eoin O'Malley (Leinster) - A cameo gong would undoubtedly go to Will Chambers for his 37 minute effort that had Castres clutching at fresh air on numerous occasions. Tommaso Benvenuti's stocks in Italy also continued to strengthen but for two tries, it is O'Malley.

12 Wesley Fofana (Clermont) - Our toughest decision. Why? Well there wasn't really anyone who significantly stood out. Gordon D'Arcy and Jordan Turner-Hall were solid while not scintillating so for his out-of-position showing, Fofana's smooth effort must be hailed.

11 Tim Visser (Edinburgh) - Time and time again Visser shows just what a good finisher he is and his two tries, the latter leading to Greig Laidlaw knocking over the winning two points, brought an end to an unbelievable game at Murrayfield. He edges Shane Williams.

10 Rhys Priestland (Scarlets) - It became a toss-up between a Beaver and a Dragon. Bath recouped some of the money they had spent on Stephen Donald as he created a couple of tries in his home debut. However, he just misses out to Priestland as on away soil the 10 directed traffic superbly for the Scarlets. He could soon be partnering the man below.

9 Lloyd Williams (Cardiff Blues) - Again we had more than one standout nominee for this one as Greig Laidlaw continued to put his name into Scotland's selection process with a good running and kicking display. The same will be said about Williams though, who is set for great things in a Welsh jersey. With Mike Phillips unavailable, he should face Australia.

8 Jamie Heaslip (Leinster) - The recent RWC saw Heaslip surprisingly in the shadows of Sean O'Brien and Stephen Ferris, however he was the star of the show in Dublin on Sunday and deserved his try. Thomas Waldrom and Ben Morgan also impressed in Round 2.

7 Sam Warburton (Cardiff Blues) - Another faultless day from the retained Welsh captain as he was a constant nuisance to London Irish at the breakdown. The future looks bright for Wales at the moment and for the Blues for that matter as they have two wins from two.

6 Jacques Burger (Saracens) - Jean Bouilhou was solid while scoring a try for Toulouse that got the ball rolling in Galway while Chris Masoe also stood out against Munster. But for another hard-nosed display for Sarries, Burger is in. The Namibian flank is a machine.

5 Dan Tuohy (Ulster) - He simply had to make the XV after a tireless carrying performance at Welford Road. This isn't the first time Tuohy has received a mention for his Ulster efforts and it is surely now a case of when and not if he will add to his international tally with Ireland.

4 Thibaut Privat (Montpellier) - It would have been very tough to leave out Ospreys lock Ryan Jones who, like Tuohy, carried well for his side. But Privat was quite simply superb and fully merits his number four jersey. That horizontal take of a restart was one standout.

3 Rhys Thomas (Scarlets) - After an early morning chat with a colleague 10,000km away, it was Thomas who received a glowing reference for the way he negated Soane Tonga'uiha at Franklin's Gardens on Friday. He edges out strong Cardiff Blues tighthead Taufa'ao Filise.

2 Rory Best (Ulster) - There was nothing flash about Best's effort against Leicester but he did all the necessary things well while throwing in a few breakdown turnover penalties. T Rhys Williams did impress for the Blues against Irish but for his solidity, Best makes it.

1 Marcos Ayerza (Leicester) - Argentina's number one jersey is in very safe hands when Rodrigo Roncero hangs up his international boots. Ayerza was excellent for the Tigers at both scrum-time and in the loose and pips Harlequins prop Joe Marler, whose tackle on Henry Trinder foiled a certain Gloucester try. Allan Jacobsen also deserves a mention.

Big Nelly

GerM wrote: »

8 Jamie Heaslip (Leinster) - The recent RWC saw Heaslip surprisingly in the shadows of Sean O'Brien and Stephen Ferris, however he was the star of the show in Dublin on Sunday and deserved his try. Thomas Waldrom and Ben Morgan also impressed in Round 2.

He didn't score a try!! not worth reading after that

Fishooks12

Big Nelly wrote: »

He didn't score a try!! not worth reading after that

Tv3 news this morning informed me how well Eoin Madagen played, scoring 2 tries :rolleyes:

pajunior

Big Nelly wrote: »

He didn't score a try!! not worth reading after that

I was thinking as much but didn't want to say anything unless I had completely mixed up Darcy and Heaslip

wixfjord

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Tv3 news this morning informed me how well Eoin Madagen played, scoring 2 tries :rolleyes:

Now that would be some player!

matthew8

Not too many complaints from me for that team other than that Treviso and the Ospreys should have had a few players. That was the highest quality match of the weekend, maybe De Jager for his excellent try, maybe Burton for his kicking and general play (Priestland played well but I don't think he did enough to get into a dream team).

errlloyd

Good performance so far from Rabo teams.

Played 17 games against English or French teams. Won 10, lost 6 and drew 1. Of those losses 3 were Irish teams and 3 were Italian.

However what makes this statistic particularly impressive is that although the HCup represents the best 6 or 7 of the English and French Leagues, it represents all but 1 of the Rabo direct pro 12 league meaning that even if our league was stronger we'd be fielding weaker teams. Indeed the Rabo's best 6 last season have (I believe) only recorded one loss in this years HCup.

Is the standard of Rabo rugby high, or is home away advantage just making us extremely lucky.

premierstone

errlloyd wrote: »

Good performance so far from Rabo teams.

Played 17 games against English or French teams. Won 10, lost 6 and drew 1. Of those losses 3 were Irish teams and 3 were Italian.

However what makes this statistic particularly impressive is that although the HCup represents the best 6 or 7 of the English and French Leagues, it represents all but 1 of the Rabo direct pro 12 league meaning that even if our league was stronger we'd be fielding weaker teams. Indeed the Rabo's best 6 last season have (I believe) only recorded one loss in this years HCup.

Is the standard of Rabo rugby high, or is home away advantage just making us extremely lucky.

I think its a combination of alot of factors, Munster have been lucky no doubt but tbf they have made their own luck through dogedness and their refusal to accept defeat, the Guinness Premiership like its soccer equivalant is grossly overrated and also some of the French teams clearly have their priorities in their domestic leagues, but added to that I think the Rabo has definitley improved in standard and will continue to.

GerM

Just saw last play of the Edinburgh game. For a supposed drop goal specialist, Hernandez's effort was weak beyond belief. It was easier to miss. 15m out, dead in front with the defence not in his face to disrupt the strike. Awful effort.

durkadurka

The tries from Edinburgh vs racing.




http://www.racing-metro92.com/Web_TV-63.html

Burgo

Connacht flanker Mike McCarthy has been cited by the ERC for an alleged dangerous tackle on Toulouse winger Vincent Clerc during last Saturday night’s Heineken Cup clash at the Sportsground in Galway.

ERC received a citing complaint from English citing commissioner Bruce Reece-Russel over the incident in the first half of a game won 36-10 by the French side.

McCarthy received a yellow card from English referee Greg Garner after 29 minutes of the game, but now faces a hearing in front of independent judicial officer Roger Morris from Wales in the ERC’s Dublin offices on Wednesday


If found guilty of the charge of a dangerous tackle under Law 10.4 (e), McCarthy would face at least two weeks on the sidelines, the lower end of the scale for the offence.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/2011/1121/1224307942235.html

ScrubsfanChris

ITV4 Highlights

http://www.itv.com/itvplayer/video/?Filter=290403

wixfjord

Sarries have lost another SH long term:
http://planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_7325411,00.html

That young guy looked ok in Biarritz, but could be a big blow with the double header with Ospreys and the Biarritz return game to come.

pickarooney

What's the best place to view highlights of each round?

sparky_2011

Hey all,

Does anyone know if the Leinster V Montpellier game (21 Jan) has sold out already? Looking for tickets but can't find any!!

Podge_irl

Don't think the tickets for it have gone on sale yet...

vienne86

sparky_2011 wrote: »

Hey all,

Does anyone know if the Leinster V Montpellier game (21 Jan) has sold out already? Looking for tickets but can't find any!!

The date/time have not yet been fixed, so they can't start selling tickets yet.

sparky_2011

Thanks for your replies - glad to know I haven't missed out!