Heineken Cup - General Discussion Thread

irishbucsfan

Most of the players on Northampton's bench would start for Munster I reckon. Not including Haywood (who I know little about), Manoa or Myler.

CatFromHue

Actually if you include the LV Cup then Saints have won their last 5 from 5.

In their last 3 games their front row and back three have scored 8 tries between them.

I certainly wouldn't want Leinster to be playing them that's for sure!

Also Tom May seems to add a bit more to their three quarter play than Downey.

cgpg5

Pool 1 Winner- Northampton

Can't see past Northampton winning this handy, they are in with a great shout of winning all games and will definitely fancy themselves in Thomond against a declining Munster side who will not qualify for a second consecutive season.

Pool 2 Winner- Racing Metro

A tough group to call but that's not in a good sense. Metro have far and away the best team in the group but will they take it seriously, this time around? Don't write off Cardiff. It's between them 2.

Pool 3 Winner- Leinster
Leinster to win at a canter even without O'Driscoll they couldn't have asked for a better draw. They'll be the top group winner.

Pool 4 Winner- Leicester Runner Up- Clermont
Expect Ulster to be tough as ever to beat in Ravenhill however it's difficult to see them even winning two home games. This pool is between two teams only. Leicester need no introduction and Clermont are some outfit on their day and expect them to finally have a good campaign. 2 teams should qualify due to the presence of whipping boys Aironi. 3 wins would signal a good campaign for Ulster, who as quarter finalists last year are desperately unlucky with the draw.

Pool 5 Winner- Biarritz
Probably the forgettable group of the campaign (similar to Northampton's last year) and should see Biarritz brilliant home form being enough to see them qualify.

Pool 6 Winner- Toulouse Runners up- Quins
The group I'll be paying particular attention to as a Connacht man however it won't be pretty and expect plenty of heavy defeats for the Westerners in their maiden European campaign. A win over Gloucester at home is the only realistic target. Toulouse and Quins will run riot in this group and it may come down to bonus points or points difference to determine who'll top group.

thomond2006

CatFromHue wrote: »

Also Tom May seems to add a bit more to their three quarter play than Downey.

Yeah he's seem to be getting a lot of gametime with Saints. He previously was at Toulon for 2 seasons, last season he was nowhere near their first XV.

CatFromHue

cgpg5 wrote: »

Pool 5 Winner- Biarritz
Probably the forgettable group of the campaign (similar to Northampton's last year) and should see Biarritz brilliant home form being enough to see them qualify.

Biarritz have only won one game this season and that was away!

While I think Biarritz will get better I think this group is between Saracens and Ospreys.

[Jackass]

justsomebloke wrote: »

If any of the pools are close this year you aren't allowed do any of the maths involved in showing possible outcomes:pac:

Haha touché! Lonnnnnnnnng day working / reading / writing whilst having one eye on laptop. I just can bare to think.

But if we win in Montpellier, those 6.5 points should go far towards reaching our target of √20, as long as they don't get the losing pi. You just leave the calculations up to me.

cgpg5

CatFromHue wrote: »

Biarritz have only won one game this season and that was away!

While I think Biarritz will get better I think this group is between Saracens and Ospreys.

They're a good European team though, the Saints were relegated and made HC semi in the same season if I remember correctly. Ospreys are on the way down I reckon. Sarries will be tough to beat quite unpredictable though..

errlloyd

I love the way most people are putting through all four teams from leinsters group last season, as well as the three teams they beat in the knockout. Perhaps we're overrating some of who we beat.

Podge_irl

errlloyd wrote: »

I love the way most people are putting through all four teams from leinsters group last season, as well as the three teams they beat in the knockout. Perhaps we're overrating some of who we beat.

Yeah. In hindsight the top 3 in France and the top 3 in England just aren't that strong.

vinny chase

God, they Northampton certainly have improved when you look at those sides.

Vas is streets ahead of the over-the-hill at that stage in his career Reihana or the fairly average Paul Diggin. Tom May is a good footballer, with good distribution and offers plenty from the twelve slot. Lamb can be flaky, but when he's good he's very good.

Guys like Martyn Roberts & Paul Doran-Jones give them strength in depth they didn't have last season, and you'd imagine guys like Calum Clark, Courtney Lawes and Tom Wood will only continue to improve.

Big, big test for Munster. Saying that; there is still nowhere tougher than Thomond on a big European night. Guys like O'Connell and O'Gara live for these occasions.

tolosenc

SSN bigging up Quins, Toulouse, Clermont...

Flashdean

tolosenc wrote: »

SSN bigging up Quins, Toulouse, Clermont...

Have every right to do so!Strela is def the missing link clermont needed

ambid

Shaun Edwards thinks 5 of the 8 quarter finalists will be from the Premiership

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2011/nov/10/heineken-cup-pools-shaun-edwards

For anyone who can't follow the link his predicted qualifiers are:
Pool A: Northamption
Pool B: Blues
Pool C: Leinster & Bath
Pool Leicester
Pool E: Saracens & Ospreys
Pool F: Quins.

So: 5 English, 2 Welsh, 1 Irish, 0 French!

Have I missed a golden age of English rugby?

wixfjord

RTE have announced that the halftimes in this years comp will be 15 mins long.
Weird!

irishbucsfan

I always thought they should lengthen half time a bit. Make more money from the punters and sell a bit more ad space increasing tv revenue. I don't mind 15 minute half-times.

SteelyDanJalapeno

Thats great news, more time to get the pints in

durkadurka

wixfjord wrote: »

RTE have announced that the halftimes in this years comp will be 15 mins long.
Weird!

This is a direct response to the critical 'queue for the jacks at ht' issue in the rds.

totallegend

ambid wrote: »

Shaun Edwards thinks 5 of the 8 quarter finalists will be from the Premiership

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2011/nov/10/heineken-cup-pools-shaun-edwards

For anyone who can't follow the link his predicted qualifiers are:
Pool A: Northamption
Pool B: Blues
Pool C: Leinster & Bath
Pool Leicester
Pool E: Saracens & Ospreys
Pool F: Quins.

So: 5 English, 2 Welsh, 1 Irish, 0 French!

Have I missed a golden age of English rugby?

Maybe Edwards is trying to ingratiate himself with the RFU in the hope of landing a job. Quins ahead of Toulouse? I don't see Clermont finishing behind Leicester either and I think if Montpelier try to be competitive at all, Bath won't be one of the best runners-up. No French qualifiers? Good luck Shaun.

durkadurka

Tweet of the week:


Gavin Henson will miss Cardiff's Heineken Cup game against Racing Metro due to a wrist injury. I'm saying nothing. #rugby

CatFromHue

The Ulster and Clermont teams have been named:

Ulster: 15 Simon Danielli, 14 Andrew Trimble, 13 Darren Cave, 12 Paddy Wallace, 11 Craig Gilroy, 10 Ian Humphreys, 9 Paul Marshall, 8 Pedrie Wannenburg, 7 Chris Henry, 6 Stephen Ferris, 5 Dan Tuohy, 4 Johann Muller (capt), 3 John Afoa, 2 Rory Best, 1 Tom Court.
Replacements: 16 Andi Kyriacou, 17 Paddy McAllister, 18 Declan Fitzpatrick, 19 Lewis Stevenson, 20 Willie Faloon, 21 Ian Porter, 22 Nevin Spence, 23 Adam D'Arcy.

Clermont: 15 Lee Byrne, 14 Wesley Fofana, 13 Aurélien Rougerie, 12 Regan King, 11 Noa Nakaitaci, 10 David Skrela, 9 Morgan Parra, 8 Elvis Vermeulen, 7 Gerhard Vosloo, 6 Julien Bonnaire, 5 Julien Pierre, 4 Nathan Hines, 3 Davit Zirakashvili, 2 Benjamin Kayser, 1 Lionel Faure.
Replacements: 16 Ti'i Paulo, 17 Clément Ric, 18 Mattheus Kotze, 19 Jason White, 20 Julien Bardy, 21 Kevin Senio, 22 Brock James, 23 Jean-Marcel Buttin.

Best, Ferris, and Muller are all fit which is great news. Cave gets the nod ahead of Spence, Afoa is included, and Danielli gets the nod ahead of D'Arcy.

This looks like it's going to be a great game. Paddy Power have Ulster at +2 so they think it's going to be close too.

vinny chase

CatFromHue wrote: »

The Ulster and Clermont teams have been named:

Ulster: 15 Simon Danielli, 14 Andrew Trimble, 13 Darren Cave, 12 Paddy Wallace, 11 Craig Gilroy, 10 Ian Humphreys, 9 Paul Marshall, 8 Pedrie Wannenburg, 7 Chris Henry, 6 Stephen Ferris, 5 Dan Tuohy, 4 Johann Muller (capt), 3 John Afoa, 2 Rory Best, 1 Tom Court.
Replacements: 16 Andi Kyriacou, 17 Paddy McAllister, 18 Declan Fitzpatrick, 19 Lewis Stevenson, 20 Willie Faloon, 21 Ian Porter, 22 Nevin Spence, 23 Adam D'Arcy.

Clermont: 15 Lee Byrne, 14 Wesley Fofana, 13 Aurélien Rougerie, 12 Regan King, 11 Noa Nakaitaci, 10 David Skrela, 9 Morgan Parra, 8 Elvis Vermeulen, 7 Gerhard Vosloo, 6 Julien Bonnaire, 5 Julien Pierre, 4 Nathan Hines, 3 Davit Zirakashvili, 2 Benjamin Kayser, 1 Lionel Faure.
Replacements: 16 Ti'i Paulo, 17 Clément Ric, 18 Mattheus Kotze, 19 Jason White, 20 Julien Bardy, 21 Kevin Senio, 22 Brock James, 23 Jean-Marcel Buttin.

Best, Ferris, and Muller are all fit which is great news. Cave gets the nod ahead of Spence, Afoa is included, and Danielli gets the nod ahead of D'Arcy.

This looks like it's going to be a great game. Paddy Power have Ulster at +2 so they think it's going to be close too.

I'm as blinkered a Leinster man as they come, but I think Clermont are the best team in the tournament this year. They've been close really for years; without the records really showing it. They've been significantly bolstered by the signing of Skrela and of the magnificent Regan King. King has been fantastic for Llanelli for years, and before that I used to love watching him for Waikato. I think he'll be devastating with the kind of ball generated by the Clermont pack and the space he'll be afforded because of the other options in the Clermont backline.

The young back on the bench, Buttin, is something special as well. Formidable pack with so much steel in it when you look at guys like Bonnaire, Vermeulen, Hines & Zirakashvili. Is Lapandry injured for them?

CatFromHue

No doubt Ulster have a serious job on their hands Clermont are a fantastic team.

I'm not so sure about Skrela and ironically he is probably the only survivor from the Ulster v Colomiers final in 99!

vinny chase

CatFromHue wrote: »

No doubt Ulster have a serious job on their hands Clermont are a fantastic team.

I'm not so sure about Skrela and ironically he is probably the only survivor from the Ulster v Colomiers final in 99!

I don't think Skrela is a superstar by any means, but I think he's probably more reliable than Brock James was for them. I can think of a couple of HEC games I've seen (definitely one against Leinster) and a couple of Top 14 games they'd have won had Brock James been able to keep the head.

I was impressed by Skrela in the Heino semi last year against Leinster too in large parts of the game; I was sitting in the upper stand for the first time (which gives a fantastic view for backline alignments) and consistently was impressed with how he put width on the ball and put Poitrenaud in space. That's as good a centre partnership, if not the best with Drico injured, in the Northern hemisphere in my opinion. Two big strong guys able to take the tackle on their terms and get the arms free for the offloads, and King has the subtlety to ghost into gaps, while Rougerie will run right over undersized opponents, like he did to d'Arce on one occasion last season. Big test for Cave and Paddy Wallace. If Cave comes through this well; I'd like to see him start at thirteen for Ireland soon.

Skrela is the definition of a flaky player. Bizarre signing I thought.

wixfjord

That is a big, trundling Clermont team with power everywhere!
Is Rockokoko not here yet?

totallegend

CatFromHue wrote: »

Clermont: 15 Lee Byrne, 14 Wesley Fofana, 13 Aurélien Rougerie, 12 Regan King, 11 Noa Nakaitaci, 10 David Skrela, 9 Morgan Parra, 8 Elvis Vermeulen, 7 Gerhard Vosloo, 6 Julien Bonnaire, 5 Julien Pierre, 4 Nathan Hines, 3 Davit Zirakashvili, 2 Benjamin Kayser, 1 Lionel Faure.
Replacements: 16 Ti'i Paulo, 17 Clément Ric, 18 Mattheus Kotze, 19 Jason White, 20 Julien Bardy, 21 Kevin Senio, 22 Brock James, 23 Jean-Marcel Buttin.

vinny chase wrote: »

I'm as blinkered a Leinster man as they come, but I think Clermont are the best team in the tournament this year.

On paper at least, Clermont have a ridiculously good team. I've never been the biggest fan of Skrela but he'll give Clermont a bit of solidity and control that they sometimes lack with James at 10. If Regan King hits top form, he's just the sort of centre they need to run the angles and give the deft passes to release the likes of Rougerie.

And the above squad doesn't even include Domingo, Lapandry, Canale, Malzieu, Murimurivalu, Floch and Sivivatu! There's strength in depth and there's taking the p*ss...

.ak

Hard to call at this stage with no games played, but I'd have to think that Clermont are gonna take the prize this year.

vinny chase

wixfjord wrote: »

That is a big, trundling Clermont team with power everywhere!
Is Rockokoko not here yet?

I thought Rokocoko was going to Bayonne? Sivivatu has signed for Clermont!

vinny chase

totallegend wrote: »

On paper at least, Clermont have a ridiculously good team. I've never been the biggest fan of Skrela but he'll give Clermont a bit of solidity and control that they sometimes lack with James at 10. If Regan King hits top form, he's just the sort of centre they need to run the angles and give the deft passes to release the likes of Rougerie.

And the above squad doesn't even include Domingo, Lapandry, Canale, Malzieu, Murimurivalu, Floch and Sivivatu! There's strength in depth and there's taking the p*ss...

Yeah, that's essentially what I was trying to say about Skrela above. He's not exciting, but with a pack like that, a controlling nine like Parra, and backs like he has outside him, he doesn't need to be. Just needs to steer the ship effectively, which I think he can do.

The depth of the ASM squad is truly frightening.

9/1 to win the tournament; they'll probably drift in a little bit with a win in Ravenhill since that will essentially at least give them a QF spot (esp if they take a bonus point). I'm going to have some of that now I think!

totallegend

vinny chase wrote: »

9/1 to win the tournament; they'll probably drift in a little bit with a win in Ravenhill since that will essentially at least give them a QF spot (esp if they take a bonus point). I'm going to have some of that now I think!

Think I'll join you. Odds probably reflect the tough pool draw they got, but if they can beat either Ulster or Leicester away and get ten points from Aironi, then they'll be odds-on for a home QF and no-one is going to beat them in Marcel Michelin...

[Jackass]

Clermont looked really good against Stade, some really good signings. Hines in second row along side Cudmore, Lee Byrne at full back, and most importantly, Skreala replacing James in the starting team, they are looking very very dangerous.

Like I said before, my dark horse for the competition.

thomond2006

Racing 14-17 Cardiff, almost halftime.

CIARAN_BOYLE

thomond2006 wrote: »

Racing 14-17 Cardiff, almost halftime.

If Cardiff can win this then their group is probably be theres for the taking

thomond2006

Racing 20-26 Cardiff; FT

Big result for Cardiff, huge step to winning the pool.

irishbucsfan

Fair play to Cardiff. Not an easy thing to go to France and win.

[Jackass]

thomond2006 wrote: »

Racing 20-26 Cardiff; FT

Big result for Cardiff, huge step to winning the pool.

Check your talking rugby FB page...I believe I was the only person to call this result correctly on the entire poll. :cool:

totallegend

thomond2006 wrote: »

Racing 20-26 Cardiff; FT

Big result for Cardiff, huge step to winning the pool.

And a huge setback for Racing. Hopefully they'll turn it around and continue to compete, the last thing we want is another Castres-type team devaluing the competition.

thomond2006

Aironi 6-20 Leicester
L Irish 16-10 Edinburgh

[Jackass]

*oops wrong thread**

thomond2006

19-20 to Edinburgh with a few minutes to go

4mins left, going to the wire

thomond2006

Deleted User wrote: »

4mins left, going to the wire

1 min left, Edinburgh have a scrum outside their 22

profitius

C'mon Edinburgh!

thomond2006

Edinburgh win it. Delighted for them and Bradley.

Scottish rugby needs one of the two teams doing well in Europe.

totallegend

thomond2006 wrote: »

Edinburgh win it. Delighted for them and Bradley.

Scottish rugby needs one of the two teams doing well in Europe.

That is a massive result and it puts London Irish in serious trouble, huge bonus for Cardiff too.

thomond2006

Aironi 12-28 Leicester, Morris started on the wing ahead of Scott Hamilton and scored a try.

There's just so much rugby on tv today. If I wasn't dying of a hangover I'd be having the time of my life

matthew8

So far we've had 4 upsets from 5, and in the other match it was very nearly a massive upset. Leicester denied bonus, Leinster draw, LI and RM lose at home. Very good start to the tournament.

[Jackass]

Jesus you can actually hear people ordering hotdogs in the liberty stadium it's so empty and quiet.

R.I.P Welsh Rugby.

Teferi

The Sky Sports commentators say utterly mad stuff sometimes. "ohh that was nearly the perfect opening 60 seconds" and "Could they get a try? The Dream opening 6 minutes".

Seriously nuts.