Heineken Cup - General Discussion Thread

totallegend

Tonight has shown the futility of trying to predict this competition, but here goes anyway:

Leinster to win but no BP - 24 points
Munster also to win with no BP -24 pts, second on tries scored
Saracens to get a BP in Treviso - 23 pts
Cardiff to get BP vs Racing - 22 pts
Clermont to get BP vs Ulster - 21 points
Toulouse - 18 pts
Edinburgh to beat LI - 21/22 pts (a BP won't matter if Cardiff also get one)
Ulster - 19/20 pts (doesn't matter at this stage)

So we'd have:
Leinster v Ulster
Munster v Edinburgh
Saracens v Toulouse
Cardiff v Clermont

That would be a savage outcome for Munster, and if Clermont and Toulouse both have to travel, it would be awesome for everyone.

In 48 hours, I'll be laughing at how wrong I was...

Podge_irl

totallegend wrote: »

Saracens to get a BP in Treviso - 23 pts

Treviso haven't conceded a bonus point at home all season. I can't see Saracens being the first team to do it. I half expect Saracens to lose actually.

twinytwo

totallegend wrote: »

Tonight has shown the futility of trying to predict this competition, but here goes anyway:

Leinster to win but no BP - 24 points
Munster also to win with no BP -24 pts, second on tries scored
Saracens to get a BP in Treviso - 23 pts
Cardiff to get BP vs Racing - 22 pts
Clermont to get BP vs Ulster - 21 points
Toulouse - 18 pts
Edinburgh to beat LI - 21/22 pts (a BP won't matter if Cardiff also get one)
Ulster - 19/20 pts (doesn't matter at this stage)

So we'd have:
Leinster v Ulster
Munster v Edinburgh
Saracens v Toulouse
Cardiff v Clermont

That would be a savage outcome for Munster, and if Clermont and Toulouse both have to travel, it would be awesome for everyone.

In 48 hours, I'll be laughing at how wrong I was...

if this actually happens it will take a stretcher to get me out of the pub

cgpg5

Delighted for Ulster.. They will be second seeds next season and deservedly so. Lets hope the boys can go over to Clermont tomorrow with a "nothing to lose" attitude and really give it to the French, with the likes of Stevie Ferris, Ruan Pienaar, John Afoa and co. I am very confident that the boys from the North can get something from it.

Two crazy results tonight, just shows how unpredictable this amazing competition is. I'll go with..

Leinster v Clermont (I really have a feeling about Ulster)
Ulster v Edinburgh
Sarries v Toulouse
Cardiff v Munster

Anything is possible though...

durkadurka

cgpg5 wrote: »

Delighted for Ulster.. They will be second seeds next season and deservedly so. Lets hope the boys can go over to Clermont tomorrow with a "nothing to lose" attitude and really give it to the French, with the likes of Stevie Ferris, Ruan Pienaar, John Afoa and co. I am very confident that the boys from the North can get something from it.

Two crazy results tonight, just shows how unpredictable this amazing competition is. I'll go with..

Leinster v Clermont (I really have a feeling about Ulster)
Ulster v Edinburgh
Sarries v Toulouse
Cardiff v Munster

Anything is possible though...

Jesus. Now I'm supporting clermont!

leonard7

Treviso have been a new team this year somewhat throwing away the idea that italian teams are a walk over...82-0 by clermont to aironi hmmm let me rephrase thaat...treviso have been a new team this year throwing away the idea that they are a guaranteed victory

cgpg5

durkadurka wrote: »

Jesus. Now I'm supporting clermont!

Leinster would have no bother beating them at home. Hon Ulster

Tigerandahalf

I can't see Saracens losing that one.

I'd love to see Ulster putting up a real big performance but they haven't even come close before away in France and they are up against a very good side. They'll probably go very close. If Pienaar is kicking they won't waste too many chances and should give Clermont a right good game.

Munster are the ones with everything to gain tomorrow.

The semi-final draw as usual will make things v interesting. Toulouse are capable of turning anyone over and if they knew they would have home semi for a victory they would be a hard team to beat.

Outside of Edinburgh (who are not too bad) this year will probably see the most competitive last 8 so far.

cgpg5

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I can't see Saracens losing that one.

I'd love to see Ulster putting up a real big performance but they haven't even come close before away in France and they are up against a very good side. They'll probably go very close. If Pienaar is kicking they won't waste too many chances and should give Clermont a right good game.

Munster are the ones with everything to gain tomorrow.

The semi-final draw as usual will make things v interesting. Toulouse are capable of turning anyone over and if they knew they would have home semi for a victory they would be a hard team to beat.

Outside of Edinburgh (who are not too bad) this year will probably see the most competitive last 8 so far.

Tonight's results were so unexpected I'm nearly expecting Edinburgh to collapse against Irish Sunday

bleg

3 Irish (definite)
2 French (1 definite)
1 Welsh
1 English
1 Scottish

Pretty good work especially considering the groups Munster and Ulster came from.

shuffol

QF prediction

Leinster v Ulster
Saracens v. Cardiff
Edinburgh v. Toulouse
Clermont v. Munster

Tigerandahalf

The Irish provinces are doing v well.

I wonder when is the next Sky contract coming due. With the huge success of their coverage I would expect the ERC to push for a bigger contract. Would this extra money finally force the French and English clubs to really go for the H Cup. The French still aren't fully behind it as the Top 14 is still the cash cow.

It will happen eventually and it will then make it a lot more difficult for the Irish provinces.

shuffol

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

The Irish provinces are doing v well.

I wonder when is the next Sky contract coming due. With the huge success of their coverage I would expect the ERC to push for a bigger contract. Would this extra money finally force the French and English clubs to really go for the H Cup. The French still aren't fully behind it as the Top 14 is still the cash cow.

It will happen eventually and it will then make it a lot more difficult for the Irish provinces.

You dont think English clubs really go for the HC or do you just come to this conclusion because all but one has been eliminated?

Tigerandahalf

No what I'm saying is that there may well come a stage where the money from H Cup will outdo what French/English clubs get in their domestic leagues. Or there may simply be a push to form a European League. The money will decide the future.
The H Cup is important to English clubs but their domestic league is more important.
The same doesn't apply to Irish clubs.

Podge_irl

It's about more then money though. The French championship has 100 years of history to it - there is more prestige in winning it. This also helps on the money front as it helps them significantly with merchandise and advertising income moreso then a HEC win would in France.

totallegend

I'd imagine Sky will not be best pleased about one English team making the QFs (barring yet more unlikely results going in Quins' favour); this is the bulk of their market after all. Sort of devalues the Premiership too.

leonard7

i refuse to believe any player goes into any of the games not caring if they lose...people can say what they like about the french clubs but they have put out strong teams in the heineken cup full of professionals that are paid to try and win every match not every heineken cup match or any top 14 match

durkadurka

bleg wrote: »

3 Irish (definite)
2 French (1 definite)
1 Welsh
1 English
1 Scottish

Pretty good work especially considering the groups Munster and Ulster came from.

5 rabo teams it must be said.

almighty1

shuffol wrote: »

QF prediction

Leinster v Ulster
Saracens v. Cardiff
Edinburgh v. Toulouse
Clermont v. Munster

Yeah Id go with that outcome too.

greendom

durkadurka wrote: »

5 rabo teams it must be said.

Do you think that is because that competition is designed with the H Cup in mind. It's complimentary whearas the English and French leagues are competing against it ?

irishbucsfan

Seems all my calculating last week was a complete waste of time. Cheers connacht!

errlloyd

To be fair to English teams, they are fighting a salary cap.

Feels good having three through though. No one can say it was easy either. I feel all three could win it too. I almost think Clermont at home in the quarters would be a good thing.

durkadurka

greendom wrote: »

Do you think that is because that competition is designed with the H Cup in mind. It's complimentary whearas the English and French leagues are competing against it ?

Some of it just the way it turned out really. There's an element of luck and happenstance to it. But the rabo teams certainly gear everything around the HEC alright.

irishbucsfan

Clermont at home in the knockouts is a different kettle of fish altogether to Clermont at home in the pool stages as leinster discovered in 2010

greendom

greendom wrote: »

Do you think that is because that competition is designed with the H Cup in mind. It's complimentary whearas the English and French leagues are competing against it ?

Cool question, and probably right to some extent.

OldRio

The HC gets better and better.
3 Irish teams through to the knockout.
Seems the Pro12 league has delivered, so far.
No doubt the usual suspects over the water will offer excuses (see some earlier posts) but this is a fine achievement for the Irish teams.
Lets hope these players continue their good form for the Ireland team (if selected, but thats another story)

shuffol

Highlights of Gloucester-Toulouse. Some game

http://youtu.be/jqsH92UfhY0

How horribly bad did that winger get caught out?! ridiculous.

Beautiful hands for second french try though.

Gloucester's third is sweet too

Look at the numbers Toulouse get to the ruck @ 7:40

some serious rugby played in that game.

shuffol

Yeah Matanavou was shocking for the first and last Gloucester tries.

Freddie Burns is electric, love watching him.

cgpg5

shuffol wrote: »

Yeah Matanavou was shocking for the first and last Gloucester tries.

Freddie Burns is electric, love watching him.

Better option at 10 than Hodgson for England ya reckon? I haven't seen much of Burns I'll admit. But Hodgson is very hit and miss I feel.

irishbucsfan

Freddie Burns is the definition of hit and miss

errlloyd

Sky just did a class Ulster montage to a Coldplay song. Probably the only time Coldplay has ever been inspirational.

shuffol

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Freddie Burns is the definition of hit and miss

He is but he's still very young, only 21.

KevinK

Who will take the 8th place if Ulster win? (presuming Cardiff or Edinburgh get 7th)
Harlequins are on 17 and leicester, clermont and Northampton can all get there.

Edit- the winner of ospreys/Biarritz can get to 18 but presuming the winner gets to 17 which of these teams is in line to get 8th?

CIARAN_BOYLE

KevinK wrote: »

Who will take the 8th place if Ulster win? (presuming Cardiff or Edinburgh get 7th)
Harlequins are on 17 and leicester, clermont and Northampton can all get there.

Edit- the winner of ospreys/Biarritz can get to 18 but presuming the winner gets to 17 which of these teams is in line to get 8th?

Whoever has the most tries. At the moment Clermont has a massive advantage in terms of tries scored (12 last week against Aironi) so if they ended up on 17 with Ulster winning they would go through (assuming Biarritz/Ospreys don't get a TBP)

CIARAN_BOYLE

Tigers trailing 6-3 at the moment

No tries so far in Clermont Ulster big ask for Clermont to get a bp if they win.

thomond2006

Leicester 9-6 Aironi, HT

DDC1990

Clermont win.

Where does that leave things?

cgpg5

DDC1990 wrote: »

Clermont win.

Where does that leave things?

Ulster will most likely be 8th seeds I think Clermont will finish as 4th seeds, provided Munster don't get LBP. Its very likely that if Munster lose that they'll play Clermont either way. They'll be both 4th and 5th seeds

castie

Munster Clermont if Munster lose. Home if LBP.

washman3

Big Nelly wrote: »

Also if you knew anything look at the team Montpellier are putting out against Leinster. Its there strongest 15 or as close as possible

Leinster 25 Montpellier 3

strongest team score 3 pts in 80mins...;)

overshoot

OldRio wrote: »

The HC gets better and better.
3 Irish teams through to the knockout.
Seems the Pro12 league has delivered, so far.
No doubt the usual suspects over the water will offer excuses (see some earlier posts) but this is a fine achievement for the Irish teams.
Lets hope these players continue their good form for the Ireland team (if selected, but thats another story)

pro 12 in general is really coming out on top this year
looks like 5/8 quarter finalists will be pro 12 (1 english, 2 french) and 3 will have home quarter finals too. (backing edinburgh and cardiff) that also means munster v ulster and at least one irish semi finalist

P_1

1-Munster v Ulster
2-Leinster v Edinburgh
3-Sarries v Toulouse
4-Cardiff v Clermont

not sure if anyody would have predicted those 1/4 finals

wonder what way the semi draw will go

matthew8

I wonder if Munster would prefer the number 2 seed to the number 1. No. 1 should mean Ulster for them, who they typically play poor against, rather than Cardiff/Edinburgh.

ray jay

matthew8 wrote: »

I wonder if Munster would prefer the number 2 seed to the number 1. No. 1 should mean Ulster for them, who they typically play poor against, rather than Cardiff/Edinburgh.

Yeah I wouldn't say Leinster will be too bothered to be second seeds, they'll have an easy time against Edinburgh at home.

cgpg5

Munster v Ulster
Leinster v Edin
Sarries v Toulouse
Cardiff v Clermont

Ulster, Leinster, Sarries and Clermont for semis I feel, although there is 3 very intriguing games there potentially.

bleg

cgpg5 wrote: »

Munster v Ulster
Leinster v Edin
Sarries v Toulouse
Cardiff v Clermont

Ulster, Leinster, Sarries and Clermont for semis I feel, although there is 3 very intriguing games there potentially.

Keep writing Munster off. We love it.:)

CiaranMT

Still think Embra will mess up tomorrow.

ktulu123

What would that mean for Leinster if Edinburgh lose tomorrow?

overshoot

ktulu123 wrote: »

What would that mean for Leinster if Edinburgh lose tomorrow?

they play ulster, as they will be best runners up. either way we are now guaranteed one irish semi finalist i think