Occupy Waterford

O Riain

Sully wrote: »

Thats a no to my question so, thanks!



I would hope that you are joking here. If you think sitting around in a tent all day scanning a newspaper and/or an iPhone for jobs in your area is satisfactory than you are very much mistaken. I'm sure that an inspector would like to see a bit more effort, including handing in CVs to various businesses (which have positions, better than nothing) and going for interviews etc. and not just sitting on your arse all day complaining.

For a movement that has been there sometime now, they have achieved absolutely nothing. The debt / financial crisis is evident to us all and we don't need a group of people sitting in a tent to remind us of that. Many of those who have jobs can see it in their wage slip, their bank statements, their reminder notices for overdue / due payments on stuff like mortgage's, credit cards, household bills etc. Plus the fact its on every single newspaper, even tabloids, and you cant miss it on the TV either.

I got three jobs in Waterford online. 1 bar, 1 call centre and an admin job.

Cabaal

O Riain wrote: »

I got three jobs in Waterford online. 1 bar, 1 call centre and an admin job.

Oh no, I guess Sully is wrong then.
You managed to get your jobs online so I guess everyone else can do the same for every type of job they want
:rolleyes:

dayshah

Sully wrote: »

For a movement that has been there sometime now, they have achieved absolutely nothing. The debt / financial crisis is evident to us all and we don't need a group of people sitting in a tent to remind us of that. Many of those who have jobs can see it in their wage slip, their bank statements, their reminder notices for overdue / due payments on stuff like mortgage's, credit cards, household bills etc. Plus the fact its on every single newspaper, even tabloids, and you cant miss it on the TV either.

You are a member of the main governing party. The protestors are protesting against that party.

Just because FG members disagree with people protesting against FG policies, that doesn't mean other people are unhappy to see people protesting against the government. They aren't just highlighting the shi!t situation we are in, they are reminding the government that people are unhappy with how they are handling the bondholders, the same bondholders FG said they would burn when FG were Occupying the opposition benches.

Also, are you doing 24 hour surveilance? Some of them might go home for a shower, go to an interview, and then go back afterwards. Some might go home to print a few CVs and then post them. Over half the unemployed are unemployed for a year or more. Should the Dept Social Protection raid all their houses and confiscate any camping gear, fishing rods, or sports gear for fear that they might do something in addition to look for a job?

dayshah

Cabaal wrote: »

Oh no, I guess Sully is wrong then.
You managed to get your jobs online so I guess everyone else can do the same for every type of job they want
:rolleyes:

It totally invalidates Sully's point that checking online, or looking in The Munster is not a good way to find a job.

And again, plenty of the occupiers are part-time protestors, full-time workers.

Sully

dayshah wrote: »

It totally invalidates Sully's point that checking online, or looking in The Munster is not a good way to find a job.

And again, plenty of the occupiers are part-time protestors, full-time workers.

Its not good enough. When I put up a job, I do so online and get my applications in online. But I expect a decent CV and a decent cover letter, which would be tough to do on an iPhone. I don't advertise in any local paper for any jobs, like many other businesses.

Simple. You get out there, put in CVs into places in the *hope* they have or will have a slot opening up soon (I know many people who didn't sit around and just went into places handing in CVs in the hope something comes up - a bit more personal).

If your on state benefits, we (the tax payer) are paying through the tooth to look after you. I personally expect a little better for those on how they go seeking jobs.

dayshah

Sully wrote: »

Its not good enough. When I put up a job, I do so online and get my applications in online. But I expect a decent CV and a decent cover letter, which would be tough to do on an iPhone. I don't advertise in any local paper for any jobs, like many other businesses.

Simple. You get out there, put in CVs into places in the *hope* they have or will have a slot opening up soon (I know many people who didn't sit around and just went into places handing in CVs in the hope something comes up - a bit more personal).

If your on state benefits, we (the tax payer) are paying through the tooth to look after you. I personally expect a little better for those on how they go seeking jobs.

I've just two points:

1) You have provided zero evidence that these people aren't looking for jobs. All you are doing is persisting in a libel.

2) Just looking for jobs won't magically create the 400,000 jobs we need. The jobs on offer are being filled. The only ones that aren't filled are either very skill specific or 'sales' type jobs that don't even guarantee the minimum wage.

The Venom Viper

All that **** though I hate.. De-register your birth cert? You don't have to take responsibility for you own actions? Your basically putting "im a dummy" label on Irish people. Cause you have to be seriously stupid to get a parking ticket or go over on your credit card.

You think its rubbush' glad we agree' all Im trying to do is point out to you and everyone else whats on the freeman youtube page where they state in their describition section you don't have to pay credit cards and loans and other stuff' care to read it' and care to watch the videos of so called waterford freemen trying to get out of paying fines.

The freeman ideas are very dangerous because people with no clue about law will try this stuff, making a simple fine for speeding turn into a big deal involving arrest, imprisonment and a criminal record that will follow the person around forever, impacting future travel opportunities as well as future job opportunities.

A recent great example where someone took the freeman advice and got in far more trouble' was that guy in wexford in court over not paying motor tax applied their advice and made his situation even worse.

http://www.wexfordpeople.ie/news/bobby-of-the-family-sludds-may-be-jailed-2878029.html

If people in real debt trouble find freeman websites, read it, believe it, attempt to apply it thinking its the end of all their troubles, they really could land themselves in a position so much worse off - with no access to finance, banks, transport, or even their house. Thats why I call it dangerous.

Last but not least' a few times the last two weeks occupy waterford on their facebook have put out calls for extra night securirty stating they were short for security on each night' there's a good reason for that' the majority don't support this phony cause and can see through this fallacious freeman cock and bull.

vixdname

Partizan wrote: »

Looking at those photographs of Waterford remind me of what a bleak and souless place it is. I'm delighted I got out of there years ago. I pity the poor souls condemned to live in that place. A modern day Coketown.

Let me guess, you're one of those people that always condemns the place they came from, Irish people are renounded for it.
Agreed, Waterford has seen more then its fair share of job losses in recent times but most of the rest of the country has aswell.
Its amazing that considering all of the shots are taken of a very small section of the quay side that you can see the rest of the city and pass comment on it, how can you pass comment on a whole city when all you can see it a little part of the quay side ?
Waterford is a great city, has lots of great people and will undoubtedly have a great future when our current COUNTRYWIDE woes are finally gone.
I myself have lived away from Waterford and know what its like to work and live somewhere else but I loved when the opportunity arose that enabled me to get back to Waterford.
You are definitely better off away from Waterford if you feel like you do but on the other hand Waterford is better off without you and your type.
Isnt it lucky that the grass is always greener

Cabaal

The Venom Viper wrote: »

http://www.wexfordpeople.ie/news/bobby-of-the-family-sludds-may-be-jailed-2878029.html

.

Very entertaining read thanks for posting it

I would hope that nobody is thick enough to think such nonsense will allow them to avoid their legal responsibilities when they go up against the Irish legal system.

Its evident that the Gardai and courts just won't entertain it and rightly so,

Infact I would hope they'd also slap on some extra fines and jail time for wasting courts time otherwise we the tax payer are paying for the time these idiots waste with their nonsense.

Sully

dayshah wrote: »

I've just two points:

1) You have provided zero evidence that these people aren't looking for jobs. All you are doing is persisting in a libel.

2) Just looking for jobs won't magically create the 400,000 jobs we need. The jobs on offer are being filled. The only ones that aren't filled are either very skill specific or 'sales' type jobs that don't even guarantee the minimum wage.

1) You haven't proved otherwise. Pure speculation on my part, that some of these sitting around are not actively looking for jobs. Some are, maybe they all are. But your response has been something like "There looking at their iPhone or a newspaper!!" [sic] which is the most embarrassing face palm answer I probably will get.

2) Are there 400,000 people at Occupy Waterford? Fair play for fitting them into the tents, they make them look so empty every day I drive or walk past.

dayshah

Sully wrote: »

1) You haven't proved otherwise. Pure speculation on my part, that some of these sitting around are not actively looking for jobs. Some are, maybe they all are. But your response has been something like "There looking at their iPhone or a newspaper!!" [sic] which is the most embarrassing face palm answer I probably will get.

2) Are there 400,000 people at Occupy Waterford? Fair play for fitting them into the tents, they make them look so empty every day I drive or walk past.

1) Fueling speculation is against the forum charter. Other poster's have been there and know some are employed.

2) That's a trolling comment. Obviously 400,000 aren't at the encampment. My point is that there is a shortage of jobs, and if people look even harder for jobs there will still be a shortage. Supply does not create demand. Its basic economics.

Anyway, how does a full tent look different to an empty one? You only know if you are inside. :rolleyes:

Sully

dayshah wrote: »

1) Fueling speculation is against the forum charter. Other poster's have been there and know some are employed.

In certain circumstances, indeed it is, but if speculation full stop was banned than we wouldn't have much of a discussion board now would we.

2) That's a trolling comment. Obviously 400,000 aren't at the encampment. My point is that there is a shortage of jobs, and if people look even harder for jobs there will still be a shortage. Supply does not create demand. Its basic economics.

If people got up of their backsides, ie those that don't, and actually looked for a job properly they might just get one. So what if it means working in a shop or supermarket? Its a job and it brings in a wage. It gets you of state benefits, helps me, helps you, helps Cabaal, helps most ordinary folk and helps ease the pain the state coffers are having at the moment.

I'm not suggesting there is a job for everyone, but there are jobs out there. It just means looking and trying a bit harder than gawking at an iPhone or a newspaper.

Anyway, how does a full tent look different to an empty one? You only know if you are inside. :rolleyes:

What? :S

letsbet

The government's job initiative must have worked better than I thought. Are there really that many jobs out there that people are unwilling to take?

Nolanger

Plenty of IT technical jobs available (e.g. Java) that most unemployed can't do because of our dumbed-down and feminised education system.

dayshah

Sully wrote: »

In certain circumstances, indeed it is, but if speculation full stop was banned than we wouldn't have much of a discussion board now would we.

Dole fraud is a serious allegation that you are speculating on, and a clear violation of the forum charter.

Sully wrote: »

If people got up of their backsides, ie those that don't, and actually looked for a job properly they might just get one. So what if it means working in a shop or supermarket? Its a job and it brings in a wage. It gets you of state benefits, helps me, helps you, helps Cabaal, helps most ordinary folk and helps ease the pain the state coffers are having at the moment.

After construction, the retail sector is one of the hardest hit in the country. To create 400,000 supermarket jobs we'd have to build about 1,500 new supermarkets. I suppose the 2% higher VAT is all part of FGs master plan to get people back to work :rolleyes:

The number of longterm unemployed has increased over 7 times. Are these people, who had been working and paying PRSI during the good times, simply lazy? You're knowledge of basic economics is exceptionally poor. Right up there with people who want to abolish fiat currency.

Cabaal

dayshah wrote: »

Dole fraud is a serious allegation that you are speculating on, and a clear violation of the forum charter.

So bottom line is speculation is ok when it suits you then, eh?
But in this case its something against the Occupy movement which you don';t appear to like.

I see many people post in this forum and others saying x party, x TD is corrupt etc, without any solid evidence such a suggestion or in this case allegation is very very serious I'm sure you'll agree.

But I don't see you complaining about these type of comments...go on knock yourself out on the politics forum, I'm sure you can report plenty of anti-ff related posts that have no facts backing up any claims.

imho Sully's comments are warranted, you honestly can't be very serious about getting yourself a job if your going to live in a tent on the quays. spend most of your days standing around the quays and annoying AIB staff by doing a sit-in or other such stuff.

You keep saying that it is a serious allegation, but to be honest given the amount of dole fraud that goes on in this country it stands to reason that there would be at least ONE person not following the job seekers requirements, as such Sully's suggestion seems perfectly valid.

If sully suggested that there may be trades men that work cash in hand and don't pay tax would you be so quick to want such discussion stopped?

Nolanger

In order to get the dole you need to be based at a permanent address instead of living in a tent. Any protestor claiming welfare should be cut off ASAP.

dayshah

Cabaal wrote: »

So bottom line is speculation is ok when it suits you then, eh?
But in this case its something against the Occupy movement which you don';t appear to like.

I'm not a mod, and its not my mod to report everything. If you have a problem, report it yourself.

Anyway, how would you know what I report and what I don't if you are not a mod on this forum :rolleyes:

This is on the feedback forum, which is a more appropriate place for your post.

dayshah

Nolanger wrote: »

In order to get the dole you need to be based at a permanent address instead of living in a tent. Any protestor claiming welfare should be cut off ASAP.

Who says they are permanently living in the tent? I've often gone camping up the mountains. I never told work, VHI, Revenue etc, to redirect my post up the mountains for a few days.

Anyway, it's just speculation that most of them are on the dole. How about play the ball and not the man?

michellie

Cabaal wrote: »

O Riain wrote: »

I got three jobs in Waterford online. 1 bar, 1 call centre and an admin job.

Oh no, I guess Sully is wrong then.
You managed to get your jobs online so I guess everyone else can do the same for every type of job they want
:rolleyes:

I got my last 2 jobs online too. My current position I emailed them after the close date and still got a interview,they had hundreds of applications. I'm working there 18 months now.

I wanted that job. Emailed them. Got it

Sully

dayshah wrote: »

Dole fraud is a serious allegation that you are speculating on, and a clear violation of the forum charter.

Hardly, since nobody specifically has been outright accused of such. These type of groups are generally made up of unemployed, voicing their anger at the state of the nation and how the government is going about solving it through issues such as bankers. I see no issue personally with people talking about IF any individual is. That's the difference compared with outing someone specifically as unemployed and claiming benefits illegally. People are commenting on the nature of the people who attend such events, and are rightly expressing concern if certain circumstances are met.

Your quoting parts of the charter as if the mods should rule with an iron fist and be anal about their moderation. The libel / speculation element of the charter has always been directed at much bigger issues where names are named.

After construction, the retail sector is one of the hardest hit in the country. To create 400,000 supermarket jobs we'd have to build about 1,500 new supermarkets. I suppose the 2% higher VAT is all part of FGs master plan to get people back to work :rolleyes:

Once again, I am not talking about 400,000 the figure which you obsess about. A chunk of the unemployed can and should take whatever job they can get. It reduces the amount on the live register and claiming benefits, helping ordinary tax paying citizens and the state coffers. Its not a solution for everyone, but there are jobs out there to be filled if you go looking. Not for everyone, but for a %. Whatever small. Your iPhone or Newspaper cant provide you with all the answers. If your lucky to get something through it, as we know you can be, great. If not, then get up and look harder. That is the difference between what I find acceptable and people like yourself think is.

The number of longterm unemployed has increased over 7 times. Are these people, who had been working and paying PRSI during the good times, simply lazy? You're knowledge of basic economics is exceptionally poor. Right up there with people who want to abolish fiat currency.

Its a well known and documented fact that many unemployed are not trying hard enough. Why do you think the state are considering introducing firmer policies and rules about how long you can claim benefits for without being cut off or at risk of such? Its not as rosey as you seem to think, but you seem to be choosing what you want to read and hear.

dayshah

Sully wrote: »

Its a well known and documented fact that many unemployed are not trying hard enough. Why do you think the state are considering introducing firmer policies and rules about how long you can claim benefits for without being cut off or at risk of such? Its not as rosey as you seem to think, but you seem to be choosing what you want to read and hear.

Where is your evidence? Certainly not from NESC or ESRI reports.

If you looked at the evidence you wouldn't come out with drivel that increasing job search intensity would have any significant impact on unemployment. All you will get is 2,000 people applying for a job in a supermarket rather than 1,000.

But who needs data when you have anecdotes and strongly held opinions?
Maybe if FG TDs should get off their ass and do their job properly, we wouldn't have such crap policies like bailing out unguaranteed bondholders while cutting capital spending. They are getting a lot more than dole money for doing nothing (of course this has not basis in fact, but what in this thread does).

I think the anti-Occupy people have a lot in common with many of the Occupy people; being too lazy to look at the facts for themselves, and instead falling back on their own poorly informed ideology.

If you think people are committing dole fraud then quit whining on here, and report them to the authorities.

Also, please try to stay on topic, this thread is about Occupy Waterford, not general unemployment

Cabaal

dayshah wrote: »

Also, please try to stay on topic, this thread is about Occupy Waterford, not general unemployment

Ohhhh, I see what you just did.

Rant and get the last word in and now you can complain if anybody responds to your last word as it'll be "off-topic".
:rolleyes:

Anyway back to the occupy movement...have to stay on topic after all,

Nobody involved in the movement or who supports it can answer me this it seems, so whats the long term plan, what do they hope for?....nobody has answered me this.

There appears to be no long term well thought out plan that takes into account the short and long term affects of many of their idealistic ideas.

As I said before, much of what they want is idealistic and the rest is pretty much taken from a anarchists wet dream.

I guess this is what happens when you have a movement with no proper goals and leadership.

Too many crazy ideas and no proper direction other then the hi-jacking of parts of it by some small and effectively meaningless political partys who just hope to big up their numbers (you know who you are).

wellboytoo

Looking at them today got me thinking, if we could add a few sheep an odd Camel or two, one Virgin,
we'll have the biggest Crib in Ireland.

dayshah

wellboytoo wrote: »

Looking at them today got me thinking, if we could add a few sheep an odd Camel or two, one Virgin,
we'll have the biggest Crib in Ireland.

I was very impressed when I passed by. They must be the first Occupy group with an ice-rink.

bugz

I've been following this thread for a while, I can see points on both sides.
Recessions are a bitch, hell I went to Japan last year cos I couldn't get a job here. I was in the Miyagi Prefecture when the earthquake hit back in March. For nearly two weeks we were without food, water, electricity and it was snowing at the time. Also we were close to the nuclear reactor so we weren't allowed go outside when it rained cos it was too dangerous.
There were so many aftershocks that we actually stayed in a car for a couple nights cos our apartments were pretty fkd.
We managed to get home safe in the end but to be honest we were extremely lucky.
What I'm trying to do is put a bit of perspective on things.
I've never been happier to be back in Ireland. Ireland is one of the safest countries in the world to live in, unfortunately it usually takes something drastic to realise that.

Any movements/actions in Ireland now should be positive not negative.

Here's one possible idea: (dont shoot my head off for it, its only an idea)

Take a survey of people around the town available for work
Analyse the different skillsets of these people.
Group the skillsets ie: Callcenter experience (>500 people off the top of my head formerly from talk talk)
Present this information to TDs, IDA, Enterprise Ireland etc and let them use this information to try and get businesses in that require the certain skillset.
If this got only one company into Waterford it would be a much better benefit than the current negative situation.

I know people will say that this is what the government should be doing but it is our county and country too isn't it?

I hope this will spur a little positivity into this thread, god we all know we need it.

bored reader

+1 bugs well put.

Just a few figures here, I may need to be corrected.

Current live register : 446,000 2011 unemployment 14.5%

2006 live register : 150,000 4.5%

I dont live in Waterford but I presume that Its not any different to my home town, In the years preceding 2006 we imported 400,000 non nationals to help us build houses to sell to each other and do the jobs we wouldn't do.
Why was there nobody protesting this in 2006, (the unemployment figure)

Even today you go to some of our hotels, restaurants, pubs, fast food outlets and the discount retailers.
roughly what percentage of the staff would be Irish?

I understand that these jobs are 'beneath' a lot of us.
I understand you cant push people out to make jobs for nationals.

I think Occupy Waterford has some very good ideals but is doing damn all positive really.

I visited the camp and hoped I would here something positive but alas it was all just a transcription of what is in the papers. burn bondholders etc.

Ireland is crying out for something radical to tackle joblessness.
Could we put our heads together here and try something different.
Our elected TD's are afraid to tell us we can do more ourselves for fear of them becoming jobless

Any suggestions.
Try remain positive please.

dayshah

bored reader wrote: »

Even today you go to some of our hotels, restaurants, pubs, fast food outlets and the discount retailers.
roughly what percentage of the staff would be Irish?

Look at page 28 of the QNHS. About 75% are Irish nationals in the food and accommodation sector. The remaining 25% are mainly Eastern European and non-EU.

SteelyDanJalapeno

dayshah wrote: »

Dole fraud is a serious allegation that you are speculating on, and a clear violation of the forum charter.



After construction, the retail sector is one of the hardest hit in the country. To create 400,000 supermarket jobs we'd have to build about 1,500 new supermarkets. I suppose the 2% higher VAT is all part of FGs master plan to get people back to work :rolleyes:

The number of longterm unemployed has increased over 7 times. Are these people, who had been working and paying PRSI during the good times, simply lazy? You're knowledge of basic economics is exceptionally poor. Right up there with people who want to abolish fiat currency.

I thought back seat modding was against the charter

Sully

dayshah wrote: »

Where is your evidence? Certainly not from NESC or ESRI reports.

There are thousands of unemployed. There are many unemployed simply sponging of the state and that is why the state are implementing measures to prevent fraud in the system. But, for your sake, lets pretend it never happened eh?

If you looked at the evidence you wouldn't come out with drivel that increasing job search intensity would have any significant impact on unemployment. All you will get is 2,000 people applying for a job in a supermarket rather than 1,000.

Like talking to a wall or a Shinner (:D). There isn't a huge amount of jobs out there, I am aware of that. There are jobs out there, but as have been reported by employers they would prefer to be on the dole as the job doesn't pay much more or comes in a little under the dole. There are people who wont, for example only, go into a Supermarket and work there as its not good enough. There are various jobs you might be able to take, however temporarily, to pay your way and avoid being unemployed. Not everybody can do this, but even a small % would be welcome.

Some jobs the unemployed cant do much about - such as the amount of IT jobs available, you simply wouldn't be able to fill the position. The downfall here for many unemployed is not completing their education in the boom time and leaving college for a safe, secure well paid job that has now gone to pot.

But who needs data when you have anecdotes and strongly held opinions? Maybe if FG TDs should get off their ass and do their job properly, we wouldn't have such crap policies like bailing out unguaranteed bondholders while cutting capital spending. They are getting a lot more than dole money for doing nothing (of course this has not basis in fact, but what in this thread does).

Ah the bondholder stick, sure I suppose its one with the most thorns. While its an issue I felt that should never have been suggested would be burned, I can see both sides of the coin. Your side, well I can guess in assuming bar just using it to poke holes in my argument and mock my political (and most of the electorates) views.

Every country bar Greece is paying off senior bondholders whome are involved in bailouts. Even the US paid off bondholders and shareholders. The idea behind paying them, is that the ECB are making a song and dance about it BUT also because its shows that the Ireland a good debtor and a safe place to invest money in. But no, lets make a song and dance about something when we can use this as a bargaining chip to sort out some of those promissory notes which probably are a bigger chunk of our debt.

As an aside, the bank debt is only a small chunk of our debt likewise for the interest payments. Last year, there was a deficit of about €18bn and for this year it's expected to be about €15bn. Bank debt interest payments only account for about a billion of that.

I think the anti-Occupy people have a lot in common with many of the Occupy people; being too lazy to look at the facts for themselves, and instead falling back on their own poorly informed ideology.

You have yet to show us anything useful they have done. Instead, all we see is a group of people lazily sitting about in a tent chatting to friends and looking for handouts from locals. Bar interrupting the turning on of Christmas lights and trying to spoil a good atmosphere, plus adding another eyesore on the quays, they have done and achieved nothing. Zilsh. Nadda. Zero. Nil Pwa.

If you think people are committing dole fraud then quit whining on here, and report them to the authorities.

True, but this is a discussion forum and people are entitled to discuss things civilly, fairly, and within the rules set out by the site moderators and admins. Obviously the interpretation of such rules can be twisted and turned to suit your needs, but it is the duty of the moderators to deal with it. Nobody has been directly accused, but there are concerns that this group is made up of mostly unemployed and a lot of unemployed claim from the state. Therefore, people are simply commenting on this and wondering what the case is.

Also, please try to stay on topic, this thread is about Occupy Waterford, not general unemployment

The Occupy group / movement main issues are economic and social inequality. Within these terms comes employment, unemployment, bankers, social welfare, etc etc etc. Therefore, its entirely on topic. If you are unhappy with the moderation, or want the mods to act on something - report the posts and leave the mods deal with it.

Much appreciated.