N/M7 Naas Bypass Widening ever going to happen?

road_high

Just wondering is it planned to widen the M7 Naas bypass frm Naas North to the M9 Junction (and possibly upgrade this junction, but that's a seperate issue)? It was horrendous last Friday evening with the Bank Holiday and has gotten worse again with the schools etc back. At (many) times the traffic just comes to an absolute stanstill :mad: and it drives me insane. I'm sure everybody else feels the same!
Another major issue of course is that nobody has a bloody clue how to use the 3 lanes either on the N7 part which ultimately fecks up the whole flow of traffic. I presume this is the busiest road oout of Dublin by some way?

Stark

Yeah it can be seriously frustrating on a Friday evening. I've actually taken to getting the train if I'm heading home for the weekend these days. The train of all things! Alas, I haven't seen any plans whatsoever from the NRA for widening. Despite the M1 being treated to its second widened section.

Aidan1

It can be stiff enough any evening, but it's particularly bad on bank holidays. And remember, this is after 3 years of severe recession - imagine what it'll be like if/when the economy picks up again. For some reason, the M7/M9 junction southbound can be very slow too, even when traffic doesn't seem to be that heavy.

Of course, on another thread, people are talking about how you can 'always' drive from Cork to Dublin (or vice verse) in two and a half hours, and how investing in the train line would be a waste because of that. On a 'normal' Friday evening, it can easily take an hour to get from Dublin city centre to Newlands Cross, and another half an hour to get past the M9 junction. Given the shortage of funds, it'll be at least 3-4 years before work can start on this project. We'll just have to get used to the traffic, basically.

munchkin_utd

hopefully they are also considering the more modest costing hard shoulder running at peak times as well as a standard mega expensive widening project.
As a peak time solution to an extra driving lane without the exhorbitant cost of demolishing most of the existing bridges, hard shoulder running cant be beaten.

On the M25 upgrade project in London the estimate on savings on hard shoulder running over widening were ranging between 400million and 1.1 billion pounds. http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/cmselect/cmpubacc/651/65106.htm

I've seen it in action in Germany and the UK and it works a treat - especially as trucks are often restricted to driving on the hard shoulder leaving the regular 2 or 3 motorway lanes for the car traffic.
The dynamic monitoring and controlling is an important part of the scheme, but in Ireland theres already a central monitoring office for motorways and tunnels in place so thats not a problem.

The only drawback is when an accident or breakdown happens and the vehicle doesnt make it to a breakdown bay you may have to dynamically close the hardshoulder for traffic till a breakdown truck arrives. For something reasonably seldom and quickly fixed it hardly justifies 100s of millions of extra cost that the government doesnt really have.

For those who havent heard of it, heres the UK info on hard shoulder running for drivers
http://www.highways.gov.uk/roads/projects/22988.aspx

Sponge Bob

Don't forget that the M4 from Lucan to Maynooth will also need the 3 lane treatment with an AADT of around 50,000 (and 40,000 west of that to Kilcock) whereas the M7 carries 60,000 east of the M9 merge ..but it generally does not get as bad as the M7 around Naas of a friday evening rush hour.

No point waiting till it gets dire all the same.

Irish and Proud

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Don't forget that the M4 from Lucan to Maynooth will also need the 3 lane treatment with an AADT of around 50,000 (and 40,000 west of that to Kilcock) whereas the M7 carries 60,000 east of the M9 merge ..but it generally does not get as bad as the M7 around Naas of a friday evening rush hour.

No point waiting till it gets dire all the same.

Widening the Naas Bypass to D3 shouldn't really cost that much. Isn't the median 12.0m wide (including the median strips) - that would be 10m of grass. AFAIK, the current traffic lanes are 3.75m while the hardshoulders would seem to be 3m. I presume the verges are also 3.0m. The total platform would be 39.0m then. Now, let's crunch the numbers:

Hard Shoulders: 2 x 3.0m;
Traffic Lanes: 6 x 3.5m (100kph);
Hard Strips: 2 x 1.0m.
(this cross section is similar to that planned for the M1 Lissenhall upgrade)

Total Pavement: 2 x 14.5m = 29.0m

Verges: 2 x 2.0m = 4.0m

Remaining Median: 39.0m - 29.0m - 4.0m = 6.0m!

That to me seems plenty!

I remember seeing a mainline cross section for the Oberstown Interchange scheme, and I'm almost certain I saw 12.0m for the Median (inc' median strips). Maybe the engineers were planning to broaden out the M7 in anticipation of future widening, but on close inspection, it didn't seem that way looking at the tie-ins. I'm out of time now, but I'll try and source the info later.

Regards!

MrDerp

Meh, I have me dinner at home and hit Newlands X for about 8pm when I'm driving to Cork on a Friday. Easy enough going at that time

I feel sorry for the daily commuters who get clogged up by the weekend crowd. Haven't tried the Friday 5pm in a long time, only did it once on a Bank Holiday weekend - never again. Not worth the stress. If there's something I absolutely need to be in Cork for, I just take a half day.

I don't think the further M1 widening is unfair, it's not a valid comparison as the N7 is three lanes for a much longer distance out of Dublin. Imagine the D3 stopped at Rathcoole today and you'd have a fair comparison.

Amtmann

Irish and Proud wrote: »

Widening the Naas Bypass to D3 shouldn't really cost that much. Isn't the median 12.0m wide (including the median strips) - that would be 10m of grass. AFAIK, the current traffic lanes are 3.75m while the hardshoulders would seem to be 3m. I presume the verges are also 3.0m. The total platform would be 39.0m then. Now, let's crunch the numbers:

Hard Shoulders: 2 x 3.0m;
Traffic Lanes: 6 x 3.5m (100kph);
Hard Strips: 2 x 1.0m.
(this cross section is similar to that planned for the M1 Lissenhall upgrade)

Total Pavement: 2 x 14.5m = 29.0m

Verges: 2 x 2.0m = 4.0m

Remaining Median: 39.0m - 29.0m - 4.0m = 6.0m!

That to me seems plenty!

I remember seeing a mainline cross section for the Oberstown Interchange scheme, and I'm almost certain I saw 12.0m for the Median (inc' median strips). Maybe the engineers were planning to broaden out the M7 in anticipation of future widening, but on close inspection, it didn't seem that way looking at the tie-ins. I'm out of time now, but I'll try and source the info later.

Regards!

I thought so too, but based on a purely visual impression, it looks to me like several overbridges on the mainline would need to be knocked.

L1011

Tremelo wrote: »

I thought so too, but based on a purely visual impression, it looks to me like several overbridges on the mainline would need to be knocked.

I think there's only one between the M9 and Maudlins that looks like it'd definitely need replacing, but I can't remember which one. Remember how tight the Roscrea BP overpasses looked?

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Don't forget that the M4 from Lucan to Maynooth will also need the 3 lane treatment with an AADT of around 50,000 (and 40,000 west of that to Kilcock) whereas the M7 carries 60,000 east of the M9 merge ..but it generally does not get as bad as the M7 around Naas of a friday evening rush hour.

No point waiting till it gets dire all the same.

I'd widen to Kilcock although it might actually increase toll dodging with a nice lane running up on to the bridge...

Chris_5339762

I reckon you could fit 3 lanes (maybe with no HS) under all the bridges.

This scheme got suspended in the latest round of cutbacks I think Dont know why.

That said, they shouldnt touch this scheme without a complete rebuild of the M7/9 junction including full access.

ardmacha

This bridge is a bit tight, you'd lose the hard shoulder.

With talk of additional toll sites this is an obvious one, combined with a scheme for widening the road and a private operation taking over maintenance of a large part of the M7.

Irish and Proud

I had a look at 'googlemaps' last night and I don't think there's 12.0m between the median lines - IMO, it's more like 10m which would leave a grassed area of 8.0m. I also don't think the verges were carried through under the bridges - In fact, I saw a concrete barrier installed beside a bridge support which left a verge of about 1.0m inside the hard shoulder. AFAIK, there must be a minimum of at least 1.0m inside the hard shoulder (for motorists accessing emergency phones etc. If that's the case, it means no outward widening of the pavement under the bridges. Right, so I'll re-crunch the numbers:

Available Platform under bridges:

2 x 1.0m Verges = 2.0m
2 x 3.0m Hard Shoulders = 6.0m
4 x 3.75m Traffic Lanes = 15.0m
2 x 1.0m Verge Strips = 2.0m
1 x 8.0m Grass Median = 8.0m

Minimum Platform = 33.0m

For widening to D3 standard (reduced variant):

Hard Shoulders: 2 x 2.0m;
Traffic Lanes: 6 x 3.5m (100kph);
Hard Strips: 2 x 1.0m.
(this cross section is similar to that of the M50 Southern Cross (D3 section))

Total Pavement: 2 x 13.5m = 27.0m

Verges: 2 x 1.0m = 2.0m

Remaining Median: 33.0m - 27.0m - 2.0m = 4.0m (grassed median)

With concrete barriers against the centre bridge supports, that would leave a space of 2.8m for the said supports (4.0m - (2 x 0.6m (RCBs)) = 2.8m). IMO, it should be doable.

Regards!