DotA 2 General Chat Thread

marshbaboon

cherryghost wrote: »

Abbadon is ridiculous. Lots of players playing him so bad it's laughable.

He's up there in win percentage with warlock, spirit breaker & the other pubsmashers.

Had a very vocal Russian team mate playing Abbadon earlier. 1-10. Tranquil boots, yasha, staff of wizardry. I actually have a headache now.

cherryghost

Woo 10 wins in a row, a new record. Venomancer plague spam ftw.

Zapp Brannigan

Ok so the Test client can be played on Mac now, yay!

Any good tutorials to help a LoL player adapt to DOTA? Seems there's no passives or basing. Are there the equivelant of summoner spells (flash, ignite etc.)?

cherryghost

Dota 2 now has a very rugged and well thought out quest system as a tutorial. It covers pretty much all bases!

BMMachine

abbadon has always been amazing. was considered the number 1 pick/ban about 6/7 years ago. he has been missed

BMMachine

BMMachine wrote: »

abbadon has always been amazing. was considered the number 1 pick/ban about 6/7 years ago. he has been missed

He will be again no doubt, it's the cooldowns that do it for him they are insane. 4 & 5 seconds off the top of my head?

BMMachine

Deleted User wrote: »

He will be again no doubt, it's the cooldowns that do it for him they are insane. 4 & 5 seconds off the top of my head?

his biggest problem atm is how to lane him on a tri. he will of course be effective but he has no stuns or slows (early) and kotl is already so effective in that defensive role. he doesnt have much roaming power either but what he does provide is amazing utility and a great body. i can see him maybe being picked up vs naga trilanes or as a 3rd in an offensive tri who will allow more successful dives vs alchi/visage lanes and the like.
personally, i prefer trilanes where everyone has a stun or slow. i can see him maybe solo longlaning in a 1v1 matchup and rushing mek as he can stand against furion and the like, but in this regard - is he better than dark seer?

BMMachine

BMMachine wrote: »

his biggest problem atm is how to lane him on a tri. he will of course be effective but he has no stuns or slows (early) and kotl is already so effective in that defensive role. he doesnt have much roaming power either but what he does provide is amazing utility and a great body. i can see him maybe being picked up vs naga trilanes or as a 3rd in an offensive tri who will allow more successful dives vs alchi/visage lanes and the like.
personally, i prefer trilanes where everyone has a stun or slow. i can see him maybe solo longlaning in a 1v1 matchup and rushing mek as he can stand against furion and the like, but in this regard - is he better than dark seer?

Yeah some good points. I'd see him put in defensive tri lanes to combat a mega agressive tri lane to prevent deaths from dives etc. Like bane tri lanes he nullifies that. As a solo he could work but DS brings alot more to team fight so depends on your team. If I had an AM on my team I'd rather an Abaddon, just protects him so much in fights and lets him do even more damage.

Zapp Brannigan

Seems like last hitting is much harder in this than LoL. Overall the game feels much slower.

The tutorials don't really do a good job in explaining what the Day/Night cycle does (if anything), what runes do and where I should be sending my hero.

Is the meta similar to LoL or is it entirely different?

Tar.Aldarion

Zapp Brannigan wrote: »

Seems like last hitting is much harder in this than LoL. Overall the game feels much slower.

The tutorials don't really do a good job in explaining what the Day/Night cycle does (if anything), what runes do and where I should be sending my hero.

Is the meta similar to LoL or is it entirely different?

dunno about lol but in dota, each hero last hits differently, once you get used to a hero it's easier.

This should help
http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/otygb/switching_from_league_of_legends_what_should_i/
http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/wiki/guide
There are also videos specifically about moving from lol to dota on youtube I think

At night most heroes get reduced vision, making ganks easier. Also one hero gets buffed a lot at night, night stalker.

Dreddybajs

Zapp Brannigan wrote: »

Is the meta similar to LoL or is it entirely different?

What do you mean? They're completeny different games.

BMMachine

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah some good points. I'd see him put in defensive tri lanes to combat a mega agressive tri lane to prevent deaths from dives etc. Like bane tri lanes he nullifies that. As a solo he could work but DS brings alot more to team fight so depends on your team. If I had an AM on my team I'd rather an Abaddon, just protects him so much in fights and lets him do even more damage.

yup, excellent versus bane. so if you have your naix in a defensive and they go with bane/visage you counter with abba as he also provides a great escape vehicle in a losing fight, just hop inside him and let the ult do the work
i see him being picked up by teams like alliance who like to undermine their opponents. i really dont see kuroky or puppy using him so dont expect to see him on a na'vi line up. lightofheaven used to use him sometimes back in wc3 dota when he wasnt playing carry so you might see him longlaning for empire... i doubt it though when you consider the other options

Zapp Brannigan

Dreddybajs wrote: »

What do you mean? They're completeny different games.

Yeah I know, but in terms of having a support and carry lane together, a bruiser top and a mage mid and also jungle. Is that similar here or is it totally different.

When I hope in to a real game I'd like to have an idea of what role I'm supposed to pick and where I'm supposed to go.

BMMachine

Zapp Brannigan wrote: »

Yeah I know, but in terms of having a support and carry lane together, a bruiser top and a mage mid and also jungle. Is that similar here or is it totally different.

When I hope in to a real game I'd like to have an idea of what role I'm supposed to pick and where I'm supposed to go.

if you are on the radiant side the short lane is bot and vica versa on the dire side
the short lane is normally where the #1 farmer will go but things in dota can be shaken up a lot more.
you have to work the map and theres no free wards when you jungle/play support you have to work the neutrals and manipulate the map. LoL has none of this and when you factor in denies and lane control on top of countless other small things you get a beast of a game compared to the tame shrew of LoL
the communities are just as bad as each other tbh a lot of young angry males running around shouting reported at each other and the solo matchmaking is pretty much a lottery whether you win or not.
theres no visible elo in dota though which helps ease some of the pressure on these young men but there is a far heavier russian presence. they have brought in muting now which is one of the worst things they could have done as those that are muted just play solo and those that are bad at the game and have a complex about it go around trying to mute ppl because they dont like hearing that they should place wards or that running head first into the enemy (repeatedly) isnt a viable strategy. as with LoL, if you want to have fun, find friends who play or find a team. the online gaming public is absolutely toxic but beating them with friends is great

marshbaboon

Zapp Brannigan wrote: »

Yeah I know, but in terms of having a support and carry lane together, a bruiser top and a mage mid and also jungle. Is that similar here or is it totally different.

When I hope in to a real game I'd like to have an idea of what role I'm supposed to pick and where I'm supposed to go.

There's lots of different lane compositions & they're mostly all viable (in pubs).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54g5ej4NAek&feature=c4-overview-vl&list=PLE8BF94DE8B878FF0

Start watching these tutorials if you want to learn more.

Zapp Brannigan

Yeah the denying mechanics are totally foreign to me. Oh well, I'll persevere for the moment and eventually look at some build guides. Right now, in the tutorial, I'm limited to 20 heros and I haven't really enjoyed any of them just yet.

Tar.Aldarion

They pick the most boring easy herpes for you in that. lane compositions are not the same in dota. It's not set in stone as it is in lol.

marshbaboon

Zapp Brannigan wrote: »

Yeah the denying mechanics are totally foreign to me. Oh well, I'll persevere for the moment and eventually look at some build guides. Right now, in the tutorial, I'm limited to 20 heros and I haven't really enjoyed any of them just yet.

There's no denying it's a more hardcore game than LoL. It took me a while to really get into dota, but once it all clicked together the game became so much fun.

The build guides are an ok place to start, but don't treat them like gospel. Lots of people stick to the default valve builds and it makes me cringe. You'll get a lot better by learning the heroes, the skills & the items rather than sticking to pre-set builds.

Also a lot of the builds which get voted up are laughably crap.

Watch the general tutorials, and watch some games once you get to know the heroes.

BMMachine

there are builds for every situation in dota no items in the game are dead items

marshbaboon

BMMachine wrote: »

there are builds for every situation in dota no items in the game are dead items

In pub games you can be incredibly creative with skill builds, hero selection, lanes + item choice. You can play thousands of games and there's still room to discover hilarious new possibilities.

Like dagon sniper! ZAP ZAP

GO_Bear

marshbaboon wrote: »

In pub games you can be incredibly creative with skill builds, hero selection, lanes + item choice. You can play thousands of games and there's still room to discover hilarious new possibilities.

Like Vanguard Juggernaut, by all respects I should be burnt at the cross for using those two words in the same sentence but it has a 100% effectiveness ratio in pubs for me ( 5 games ) so deal with it

BMMachine

GO_Bear wrote: »

Like Vanguard Juggernaut, by all respects I should be burnt at the cross for using those two words in the same sentence but it has a 100% effectiveness ratio in pubs for me ( 5 games ) so deal with it

pretty common item on the solo mid jugger. vangaurd to me is still one of the most underrated items in the game. it was overused for a long while in HoN though and with the public (due to watching too many pro streams) thinking that aggression = good, you dont see it a lot anymore. vangaurd on dragonknight is just lolworthy and very easily achievable

GO_Bear

BMMachine wrote: »

pretty common item on the solo mid jugger. vangaurd to me is still one of the most underrated items in the game. it was overused for a long while in HoN though and with the public (due to watching too many pro streams) thinking that aggression = good, you dont see it a lot anymore. vangaurd on dragonknight is just lolworthy and very easily achievable

I would almost always in every situation opt for PMS + Drum over vanguard now with a few minor exceptions, but I will look back on my fun times with vanguard and smile longingly

Tar.Aldarion

GO_Bear wrote: »

Like Vanguard Juggernaut, by all respects I should be burnt at the cross for using those two words in the same sentence but it has a 100% effectiveness ratio in pubs for me ( 5 games ) so deal with it

Jugg so fun mid, max spin and ward. Get phase drums aghs fast, use ward to push, keeping it at the back of your 5 heroes for them to back into a bit, and press r as apprropriate. it's hilarious, especially with enchantress, chen etc

BMMachine

GO_Bear wrote: »

I would almost always in every situation opt for PMS + Drum over vanguard now with a few minor exceptions.

if you have another drum carrier the vangaurd can be worth it. depends on who you are facing i suppose. but see, lots of item choices!

Dreddybajs

Zapp Brannigan wrote: »

Yeah I know, but in terms of having a support and carry lane together, a bruiser top and a mage mid and also jungle. Is that similar here or is it totally different.

When I hope in to a real game I'd like to have an idea of what role I'm supposed to pick and where I'm supposed to go.

Ah, right. As others have said, it's a lot more flexible in Dota.

Mid:

Generally, you put a hero mid that gets a big benefit from getting solo XP & decent farm, does well in a 1v1 situation, and a lot of times a hero that can control the runes. A good example of a hero that does all of the above is Queen of Pain (qop):

- Her last hit animation is great and she has good base damage so she can farm and deny well 1v1.
- Her skill set is great for harassing the enemy mid (shadow strike) and controlling the runes (using her scream of pain AOE nuke to push the creeps into the enemy tower just as the rune is spawning, forcing the enemy mid to stay in lane or they'll miss that wave - then qop can take the rune, using blink to get there faster).
- She benefits hugely from getting fast levels due to solo XP - it means she can gank sidelanes and kill underlevelled supports very efficiently, especially if she gets a good/lucky rune to do it early on.

There are a lot of exceptions to this, but generally when taking a hero mid you should ask yourself whether you benefit from the solo XP and whether your hero has the laning ability to do well 1v1.

Other strong mids (there are tons, this is just a few): Invoker, Templar Assassin, Batrider, Puck, Skywrath Mage. Have a look at their skillsets and think about how they do in mid because of it.


Easy lane/short lane: The easy lane or short lane refers to the bottom lane for the Radiant side and the top lane for the Dire side.

It's called the easy lane because the natural creep equilibrium for the lane is just in front of the allied tower, and far away from the river (where most ganks will be coming from).

Each easy lane also has a neutral creep camp that can be pulled (look up a tutorial on pulling if you don't know what I mean) in order to keep the equilibrium and to get some farm and levels for supports in the lane.

For these reasons, it's the place to put your hard carry with support(s). Your carry (most carries tend not to have the best laning abilities) will have the easiest time farming this lane, and the support(s) can do a better job supporting them than in the opposite sidelane.

Hard lane/long lane: The hard lane or long lane refers to the top lane for the Radiant, and the bottom lane for the Dire.

If you've read the easy lane section, you should already kind of realise why - the natural creep equilibrium is far away from the safety of your tower, so to be in XP and farm range you have to be far away from it too. This also means that you're standing next to the enemy jungle, where you can be ganked easily.

The hard lane is a pretty crappy place to be, so the heroes that are able to lane there generally have some escape ability (in order to survive) (e.g. Clockwork's cogs and run away, Windrunner's windrun, Mirana's leap), as well as the ability to get at least a little bit of farm (e.g. Clockwork rockets, Windrunner powershot).

---

You'll run into all sorts of laning setups in Dota. In low level pubs, by far the most common is to have two heroes in each sidelane (hopefully one farming and one supporting in each lane), and a solo mid. This isn't exactly the best setup theoretically but it can work, and low level pubs will do it almost every game.

The next most popular will be to have two heroes in the easy lane, a solo mid, a jungler, and a hard laner. This can be a really effective setup in general (if your jungler ganks if it's possible to), especially vs. duo hard lanes.

Then you have trilanes, which I would stress that you should avoid doing in pubs until you know what you're doing. Trilaning (three heroes in a lane) means that the XP in the lane is split between three heroes, and if you don't know what you're doing, this will mean all the heroes in the lane end up underlevelled and vulnerable in the midgame. I can write a post specifically about trilines if you're interested later on.

Hope this helps a bit, let me know if you've any questions or if I didn't explain anything correctly!

GO_Bear

GO_Bear wrote: »

Like Vanguard Juggernaut, by all respects I should be burnt at the cross for using those two words in the same sentence but it has a 100% effectiveness ratio in pubs for me ( 5 games ) so deal with it

You make me ****ing sick.

GO_Bear

Deleted User wrote: »

You make me ****ing sick.

I once saw Tar building Diffusal on Anti Mage, I think he needs to first answer for his crimes

BMMachine

inception anti-mage. burn in the burn.
i cant remember some of my weirder ones. i loved solo mid lich with a blink back in the day though