Ban Cheap Booze, says grieving dad...

MrStuffins

Freddie59 wrote: »

How do YOU know this? And feel qualified to comment on it?????

How do i know that it's possible? Surely that's not a serious question.

I feel that you have either a problem with me from a previous thread or that this is a particularly emotive subject for you, either way continuing debating you on the subject is pointless to me so I won't be anymore.

Sofiztikated

Freddie59 wrote: »

You're backtracking - thankfully. At least use the proper tone when discussing this misfortunate parent and his son. Maybe if you could direct some of your (obvious) love of alcohol towards them it might lighten things a bit.

Stop getting petty.

Both myself and MrStuffins are saying

SUICIDE IS BAD, AND THE REASONS NEED TO BE ADDRESSED.
Blaming the method of death isn't going to do anything for anyone.

MrStuffins

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Stop getting petty.

Both myself and MrStuffins are saying

SUICIDE IS BAD, AND THE REASONS NEED TO BE ADDRESSED.
Blaming the method of death isn't going to do anything for anyone.

Exactly. You need to find the root of the problem. Not just pick something at random and stick blame on it.

Freddie59

Freddie59 wrote: »

Jesus. I hope it always keeps fine for you my friend. As you're an impulsive twenty-something I suppose we'll have to cut you some slack. A "bull$h!t reaction" (your own phraseology) from a devastated and grieving parent??? You cannot even begin to comprehend what is going through that man's mind.

He is probably right. Alcohol HAS become far too cheap. No two ways about it. Was it responsible for that poor chap's death? Hard to tell.

But I really wish that posters would consider their statements - especially in the case of a traumatic death - before posting them on ANY forum.

It is truly disgusting IMHO.

But I really wish that posters would consider their statements - especially in the case of a traumatic death - before posting them on ANY forum.

It is truly disgusting IMHO.[/QUOTE]

The fact is he's absolutely right. It doesn't matter how much booze costs. Someone who is determined to drink will drink. There are plenty of people who don't have a pot to p*ss in and still manage to spend every spare cent on booze. The cost of drink in Ireland is much higher than in other countries and yet people manage to find the money for it. There's absolutely no point in raising the price of alcoholic drinks. All that will do is punish those who are responsible and just enjoy a drink or two after a long week at work. Alcohol wasn't responsible for anything. This guy's actions were responsible for his death and while I'm sure it helps his parents to blame the easiest thing to blame, it's just not fair. Plenty of people have committed suicide without alcohol. Should we ban motorway bridges? Sharp knives/razors? Should we build a wall along the Cliffs of Moher so people can't jump off? It's incredibly naive to think his tragedy wouldn't have happened if alcohol were more expensive.

Alopex

newmug wrote: »

Ah FFS people, his Dad does have a point. Like it or not, alcohol IS a depressant! If you are depressed, or prone to depression, its a big no-no. At the very least, it should be restricted to people who fit into that category.

Depressant when speaking of drugs means something altogether different to depression the psychological issue

Dudess

Go easy on the dad IMO - I disagree with what he's saying, but it's bound to be the hurt talking, and grief distorts things.

Generally speaking though, I do find blame of a substance to be in bad taste. Substances generally do not cause suicide, although alcohol is a depressant as someone pointed out, and substances could exacerbate underlying conditions.

MrStuffins

Leonard Scruffy Slipper wrote: »

The fact is he's absolutely right. It doesn't matter how much booze costs. Someone who is determined to drink will drink. There are plenty of people who don't have a pot to p*ss in and still manage to spend every spare cent on booze. The cost of drink in Ireland is much higher than in other countries and yet people manage to find the money for it. There's absolutely no point in raising the price of alcoholic drinks. All that will do is punish those who are responsible and just enjoy a drink or two after a long week at work. Alcohol wasn't responsible for anything. This guy's actions were responsible for his death and while I'm sure it helps his parents to blame the easiest thing to blame, it's just not fair. Plenty of people have committed suicide without alcohol. Should we ban motorway bridges? Sharp knives/razors? Should we build a wall along the Cliffs of Moher so people can't jump off? It's incredibly naive to think his tragedy wouldn't have happened if alcohol were more expensive.

Indeed. We live in a nanny state as it is. Sure I can't even buy a bottle of beer from Tesco at 10:01 pm

We are adults and should be treated as such! If i want to drink myself into oblivion after 10pm I should be able to because that is what I choose to do! I am big enough and ugly enough to make my own decisions without being told what is best for me. Maybe I don't want what is best for me. Maybe I wanna get off my face now and again. I am well aware it can damage my liver but that is the choice I am making (by the way, i'm not even a big drinker, i'm just saying).

The cost of alcohol means nothing. Sure if people are willing to spend €30 in taxis and €20 in entry fees before they even get a drink on nights out, what is raising the price of a bottle of Fosters in Lidl gonna do?

ItsAWindUp

While I feel enormous sympathy for the man and his family, it really does sound like he is passing the buck here. Chances are this young man would have killed himself regardless of whether or not he was drunk, and I fail to see the connection between the price of the alcohol.

jackie1974

Chances are the father made a comment about booze as he was trying to make sense of his son's death and the Journalist picked up on that and used it for a good spin, the Journalist is the bullsh!t merchant and clown not the Dad.

Drink doesn't cause suicide but it lowers the inhibitions of a suicidal person and makes suicide an option. The only way to prevent suicide especially in young adults is by investing in facilities such as drop in centres, school councillers, help lines, mental health centres. Young people are basically ignored IMO and mental health comes way down the list.

People are often turned away when they present themselves as needing help and have nowhere to turn to so is any wonder we have such a huge suicide rate.

al28283

Some poor chap died a few months ago after spending 12 hours on his xbox. The next day some were calling for automatic shutdowns on all consoles after 2 hours play.

DublinWriter

jackie1974 wrote: »

Drink doesn't cause suicide but it lowers the inhibitions of a suicidal person and makes suicide an option. The only way to prevent suicide especially in young adults is by investing in facilities such as drop in centres, school councillers, help lines, mental health centres. Young people are basically ignored IMO and mental health comes way down the list.

People are often turned away when they present themselves as needing help and have nowhere to turn to so is any wonder we have such a huge suicide rate.

F&cking hear hear.

We have an *appalling* record in this country dealing with mental illness. If you think A&E is bad for physical health issues, it's as good as non existent for mental health issues.

Last year in the UK, the government earmarked several million for an action plan to help people who are depressed over the current economic situation.

Drop down to the High Court in Dublin and at least once a week there will be a case of bank closure/repossession involving a recently widowed woman who's partner decided to kill himself rather than face repossession/bankruptcy.

The original argument about below-cost selling of alcohol is about as mute as asking for a ban on below-cost selling of magic mushrooms just because your son killed himself jumping off a roof.

Minstrel27

jackie1974 wrote: »

Chances are the father made a comment about booze as he was trying to make sense of his son's death and the Journalist picked up on that and used it for a good spin, the Journalist is the bullsh!t merchant and clown not the Dad.

Bullseye. The Irish Independent is hardly the bastion of fine journalism.

Snakeblood

DublinWriter wrote: »

F&cking hear hear.

We have an *appalling* record in this country dealing with mental illness. If you think A&E is bad for physical health issues, it's as good as non existent for mental health issues.

Last year in the UK, the government earmarked several million for an action plan to help people who are depressed over the current economic situation.

Drop down to the High Court in Dublin and at least once a week there will be a case of bank closure/repossession involving a recently widowed woman who's partner decided to kill himself rather than face repossession/bankruptcy.

The original argument about below-cost selling of alcohol is about as mute as asking for a ban on below-cost selling of magic mushrooms just because your son killed himself jumping off a roof.

I was talking to a guy I know who is a fireman, and he says that one of the most frequent things he encountered was suicides. Harsh times.

Joey the lips

This is the type of rubbish that plays into the hands of labour and there plans to control the price of beer and wine.

I would not mind them doing that if they forwarded the tax into suicide prevention but what do you think they will do with it.....

Kaneda_

mikemac wrote: »

If the guy watched a dark film and did this after the cinema the father would blame the film.
When I was a young lad Mortal Kombat was to blame for violence.

And here we are, families don't talk and the father is hurt so is finding every possible input except the one that the family didn't solve this by talking

He said alcohol had become so cheap it could be purchased with pocket money, and encouraged house parties, which had become a "plague on Irish society".

Alan Shatter probably looking at this and will bring in legislation and liability for the householder of parties :eek:

"The combination of cheap alcohol and all-night house parties presents a danger for young people.

Suicide was always an issue in Ireland, one rarely discussed though.
Before alcohol was dirt cheap in supermarkets there was a man in every area who made poitín.
Having said that poitín wasn't dirt cheap either, it was about six punts a bottle

How did he take his own life,does it say?

Dyr

Twas'nt the drink that killed him..t'was the water

fran oconnor

MrStuffins wrote: »

Ok, maybe I shouldn't have called him a clown. I apologise for that!

But just because it's not easy to find out what's wrong, doesn't mean you should stick the blame on something arbitrary

I do agree myself that his father should maybe spend a little bit more time trying to find out what his son's problems where, instead of putting the blame on drink. Its a real shame how many young people are taken due to suicide, if only he told his father what his problems were we may not be talking about this now..

fran oconnor

jackie1974 wrote: »

Chances are the father made a comment about booze as he was trying to make sense of his son's death and the Journalist picked up on that and used it for a good spin, the Journalist is the bullsh!t merchant and clown not the Dad.

Drink doesn't cause suicide but it lowers the inhibitions of a suicidal person and makes suicide an option. The only way to prevent suicide especially in young adults is by investing in facilities such as drop in centres, school councillers, help lines, mental health centres. Young people are basically ignored IMO and mental health comes way down the list.

People are often turned away when they present themselves as needing help and have nowhere to turn to so is any wonder we have such a huge suicide rate.

Well said jackie, spot on.

Oranage2

I think anybody consindering trolling this thread need to think first -

Suicide is a MASSIVE problem in Ireland and we have little to no resources to deal with it -

As for the father - he's obviously in shock and in denial so blaming cheap alcohol is a way for him to get some closure - I dont think anybody believes cheap booze is the reason for his sons death

MungBean

I know it wasnt the drink that killed him but the litres of cheap easily available mind altering substances he had drank certainly contributed to his death. Theres no doubt that alcohol is a dangerous substance that leads to many deaths in many different areas.

The jump to defend alcohol here by rubbishing the fathers argument is rather pathetic.

Snakeblood

MungBean wrote: »

I know it wasnt the drink that killed him but the litres of cheap easily available mind altering substances he had drank certainly contributed to his death. Theres no doubt that alcohol is a dangerous substance that leads to many deaths in many different areas.

The jump to defend alcohol here by rubbishing the fathers argument is rather pathetic.

It's not defending alcohol, it's defending personal responsibility. At least, that's what I take from the thread.

al28283

Wait? He committed suicide by jumping into a river? I want all river's drained and bridges torn down, or this could happen again.

dominiquecruz

Relevant Article

I don't mean to post the above in bad taste, and I certainly don't mean to cast any aspersions on the young man, but I happened across this article which suggests that the guy in question had undergone a long battle with alcohol - raising or lowering prices wouldn't have changed anything. Tragic all the same.

stovelid

It's unfortunate that tragic and emotive cases like this always end up getting dragged into the licensing and pricing debate. I've no doubt the poor father just wants to feel that something will be done to take away how helpless he feels and my heart goes out to him.

Then you will have the usual unfortunate vested media, moral and industry interests that will make hay out of the death of a young man which is sad.

Fact is that drinkijng habits, culture and sometimes just plain stupidity sometimes kill people, not the price of drink.

Even despite the recent falls in price for alcohol, we still pay a lot more for alcohol than many other countries as anybody that travels in Europe will attest to so by that token we should have one of the most abstemious and sensible attitudes to drink in Europe which we know isn't the case.

MungBean

al28283 wrote: »

Wait? He committed suicide by jumping into a river? I want all river's drained and bridges torn down, or this could happen again.

This is the sort of simplistic pathetic attempt at wit thats all too apparent in this thread.

Alcohol is a huge problem in this country whether you all want to deal with that fact or not. Go down to the local club/pub at closing time and tell me people drink responsible. It doesnt happen with younger people, they drink as much as they can and then shít happens.

But god forbid anyone threaten your right to drink yourself into a stupor to hold your rightful place as a proper Irishman every weekend.

biko

This thread turned to crap pretty fast I must say.