What powers do the Luas ticket inspectors actually have?

the groutch

if they can get a result similar to what you might get from a dedicated transport police, and with a much lower cost to Johnny Taxpayer, I'm all for it.

Jamie2k9

the groutch wrote: »

if they can get a result similar to what you might get from a dedicated transport police, and with a much lower cost to Johnny Taxpayer, I'm all for it.

It will likely cost more long term, as yes they are removed them form the tram but can't do anything else. You will still need guards.

With up to 700 guards been recruited this by end of next year surly 25-30 can be set aside.

expectationlost

follow up to this Luas company wants new group to tackle anti-social behaviour http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/luas-company-wants-new-group-to-tackle-anti-social-behaviour-1.2433622

He said Transdev was “trying to look for support to bring together a joint transport working group to help tackle some of the anti-social behaviour issues”.

watch out scobes a joint working group is coming to get you

SST provide the security
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/luas-calls-for-help-battling-antisocial-behaviour-after-644-complaints-this-year-34226215.html

irish_d

You people are a cartoon. Memes have been made in your honour. Preaching about "what's right" and a "honour system". While the nation around us crumbles to pieces and homeless people die on the streets. Are youse on crack, seriously? Please...spare me the faux moral bull****. Many of those who fare-dodge on the Luas, are decent people and not crack or heroin dealers and do so because they cannot afford to pay. Sure, they could always just walk or get a cheap bike but why should they have to, especially when the fare system is not adequately enforced? In any case, the fare should be subsidised for those on the Social Welfare programme. Some take part in courses, to which travel is only part subsidised. And if train-fare is also to be accounted for, total expenditure for daily transport to and from classes could exceed 10 euro per day. That's out of a weekly allowance of 188.90, of which rent, utilities, groceries - to say nothing of leisure - have not yet entered the equation. While TD's pay themselves 88k per annum and bitch and whine about a pay cut of 33% from what was a salary of 125k, the unemployed (and employed) are met with the raised cost of living via rent, transport, utilities etc etc. And yet, whether employed or not, the very idea of a increase in income or decrease in living costs, is met with derision. Now, none of that is fair - but then why expect the fare dodgers - saying nothing of the dealers who use the trams to get from A to B - to care at all? Yes, that image of the politician with the seven cookies telling the middle class guy to watch out for that working class dude, and that he does not steal his two, springs to mind here. And you clowns have no idea that you are being played. Hilarious, yet tragic. -_-

KwackerJack

irish_d wrote: »

You people are a cartoon. Memes have been made in your honour. Preaching about "what's right" and a "honour system". While the nation around us crumbles to pieces and homeless people die on the streets. Are youse on crack, seriously? Please...spare me the faux moral bull****. Many of those who fare-dodge on the Luas, are decent people and not crack or heroin dealers and do so because they cannot afford to pay. Sure, they could always just walk or get a cheap bike but why should they have to, especially when the fare system is not adequately enforced? In any case, the fare should be subsidised for those on the Social Welfare programme. Some take part in courses, to which travel is only part subsidised. And if train-fare is also to be accounted for, total expenditure for daily transport to and from classes could exceed 10 euro per day. That's out of a weekly allowance of 188.90, of which rent, utilities, groceries - to say nothing of leisure - have not yet entered the equation. While TD's pay themselves 88k per annum and bitch and whine about a pay cut of 33% from what was a salary of 125k, the unemployed (and employed) are met with the raised cost of living via rent, transport, utilities etc etc. And yet, whether employed or not, the very idea of a increase in income or decrease in living costs, is met with derision. Now, none of that is fair - but then why expect the fare dodgers - saying nothing of the dealers who use the trams to get from A to B - to care at all? Yes, that image of the politician with the seven cookies telling the middle class guy to watch out for that working class dude, and that he does not steal his two, springs to mind here. And you clowns have no idea that you are being played. Hilarious, yet tragic. -_-

10 quid a day.....i spend more than that on diesel for God sake yet you don't see me avaiding payment at the fuel pump.

Yes we're are being screwed in many ways but if they subsidise public transport we'll only pay for it some other way.

Pay your way or walk simple as that.

monument

irish_d wrote: »

You people are a cartoon. Memes have been made in your honour. ... And you clowns have no idea that you are being played. Hilarious, yet tragic. -_-

Welcome to Commuting and Transport on Boards.ie, you seem to be able to make your point well between your childish start and finishing lines highlighted above... but if you choose not to and post like that again you will get an official warning and so on if you continue.

Do not reply to this post and read the charter before posting again.

-- moderator

irish_d

KwackerJack wrote: »

10 quid a day.....i spend more than that on diesel for God sake yet you don't see me avaiding payment at the fuel pump.

Yes we're are being screwed in many ways but if they subsidise public transport we'll only pay for it some other way.

Pay your way or walk simple as that.

Are you employed, KwackerJack? I would assume so. I'm not sure therefore, that you understand. Rent rates have gone up by 200 euro per property, on average. Yes, it is true to say that salaries for the employed have not increased by the same amount, just as is true with Jobseekers Allowance but you can at least afford a car. You choose to own and fuel that car. Many do not have that luxury.

irish_d

10 quid per day versus your diesel expenditure? You may take home a conservative average of 500 euro. Jobseekers recipients take home a weekly amount of 189. Next?

irish_d

Also KwackerJack, why should we have to pay (in some other way)? Don't get me wrong, I take your point but why should we have to accept that? The fact is, there is a huge disparity of wealth in this country, just as there is in many others. Suggesting that this is acceptable makes you part of the problem. Society's elite ie the politicians, bankers and developers etc should have to bear the financial brunt of such reform, as they can afford to. I say "should". I will not hold my breath and wait for this to come about, however.

monument

irish_d wrote: »

Also KwackerJack, why should we have to pay (in some other way)? Don't get me wrong, I take your point but why should we have to accept that? The fact is, there is a huge disparity of wealth in this country, just as there is in many others. Suggesting that this is acceptable makes you part of the problem. Society's elite ie the politicians, bankers and developers etc should have to bear the financial brunt of such reform, as they can afford to. I say "should". I will not hold my breath and wait for this to come about, however.

This is the commuting and transport board, try to focus on transport issues -- thanks.

- moderater

Victor

irish_d wrote: »

Many of those who fare-dodge on the Luas, are decent people and not crack or heroin dealers and do so because they cannot afford to pay.

And a proportion are in nice suits with nice jobs.

irish_d wrote: »

In any case, the fare should be subsidised for those on the Social Welfare programme.

Such measures are best done through welfare or training policy, not transport policy.

expectationlost wrote: »

watch out scobes a joint working group is coming to get you

Said scobes may have their own kind of joint working group.

irish_d

Monument, I am focused on transport issues. But when others suggest that all fare-evaders are heroin dealing scum, they make it a social issue -- thanks.

dr.fuzzenstein

Look, just buy a bloody ticket.

monument

irish_d wrote: »

Monument, I am focused on transport issues. But when others suggest that all fare-evaders are heroin dealing scum, they make it a social issue -- thanks.

I can't make this any clearer: reply to moderation again and you will be getting further infractions.

-- moderator

dr.fuzzenstein

I am willing to bet this poster will soon ask Mod if he's wearing his hat and if he can produce his oath, the rhetoric sounds that way.

KwackerJack

irish_d wrote: »

Are you employed, KwackerJack? I would assume so. I'm not sure therefore, that you understand. Rent rates have gone up by 200 euro per property, on average. Yes, it is true to say that salaries for the employed have not increased by the same amount, just as is true with Jobseekers Allowance but you can at least afford a car. You choose to own and fuel that car. Many do not have that luxury.

Yea I am employed and my car is an essential item as my employment is over an hour away and unfortunately public transport will not get me there.

Yes I could maybe move or change jobs but why go to all that bother just to rely on public transport.

KwackerJack

irish_d wrote: »

10 quid per day versus your diesel expenditure? You may take home a conservative average of 500 euro. Jobseekers recipients take home a weekly amount of 189. Next?

Yes I take take over 500 per week but I have to pay for my car to get me to work 5 days a week. The majority of social welfare recipients may not have the expense of running a car a few hundred miles a week and may not need to use public transport 5-7 days per week so I'm not sure what your comparison is about?

I may be wrong but if a social welfare recipient needs to travel that much they usually have a travel pass

irish_d

Nope. Under the new Dept for Social Protection, cushy little side benefits like travel passes and rent allowance have been all but cut from beneficiaries. Rightly or wrongly, now only single mothers and the disabled can avail of rent allowance and travel passes.

The fact remains Kwacker, is that you can afford to run your car. What with the raise of rent rates and the general cost of living in Dublin especially, the unemployed cannot afford a car or indeed, pay the unreasonable rates demanded by Veolia-Transdev, which are not reflected by economic growth or lack thereof. It's so easy to judge those who are in the gutter, isn't it?

Victor

irish_d wrote: »

Nope. Under the new Dept for Social Protection, cushy little side benefits like travel passes and rent allowance have been all but cut from beneficiaries. Rightly or wrongly, now only single mothers and the disabled can avail of rent allowance and travel passes.

Go read this: http://www.inou.ie/download/pdf/pdf_final_version_2015.pdf

KwackerJack

irish_d wrote: »

Nope. Under the new Dept for Social Protection, cushy little side benefits like travel passes and rent allowance have been all but cut from beneficiaries. Rightly or wrongly, now only single mothers and the disabled can avail of rent allowance and travel passes.

The fact remains Kwacker, is that you can afford to run your car. What with the raise of rent rates and the general cost of living in Dublin especially, the unemployed cannot afford a car or indeed, pay the unreasonable rates demanded by Veolia-Transdev, which are not reflected by economic growth or lack thereof. It's so easy to judge those who are in the gutter, isn't it?

There are plenty of employed people in the gutter! My cost of living has risen to but I don't drive with no insurable or drive off without paying for my fuel.

If you use public transport then you need to pay and if you get caught fare dodging then it's your own fault! It's like skipping a €2 parking charge and getting a €60 fine, it makes no financial sencephalitis especially if your already struggling.

Say every person who was stuck for money dodged a fare, do you think the transport network would last?? No it certainly would not and more than likely people like me who are already paying through the nose for actually working and running a car with rising tax and insurance costs will be the ones to foot the bill for those who want to travel for free

irish_d

wait, Captain Assumption - who said that I do not pay if using the Luas or that if i do not pay, that I get caught? your logic is sound except for the fact that is, Veolia-Transdev's strategies in dealing with fare-evaders are naive, at best. the fact is, fare evaders are generally smarter than the inspectors. how have i come to this conclusion? well, i watch and i see them analyse where best to sit and be prepared, should they need to vacate the tram. you can see them scan a platform as the tram pulls in. you can see that they usually do not sit in the middle carriage as that is the one that pulls up to opposite the ticket dispenser. even when the inspectors do not all board at the same door and each board at separate doors, there is still usually only 4 inspectors to cover 6 doors. and usually fare evaders see inspectors coming and are waiting to disembark and what's more, know that they cannot be touched once they exit the tram. yes, if those fare evaders were caught and felt harassed enough to divulge their details under duress, they would probably not try it again. but if they can get away with it, they will get away with it again. but again, you're missing the point here. the point is, society's elite play the working class and the middle class against each other and always have.

Capt'n Midnight

Victor wrote: »

And a proportion are in nice suits with nice jobs.

Jonathan Burrows was on about £1m a year when caught dodging fares in the UK.

irish_d

yes, i recall reading about that. he would have been the exception however.

Victor

irish_d wrote: »

know that they cannot be touched once they exit the tram.

The rules have changed to cover this scenario.

monument

irish_d wrote: »

wait, Captain Assumption...

Cut this nonsense out -- by the way, you've have enough warnings, so, infractions are not too far away.

-- moderator

RainyDay

Victor wrote: »

The rules have changed to cover this scenario.

Can they or do they physically restrain?

irish_d

An assumption was made about me, Monument. It would seem that you are slightly biased here. Accordingly, I won't be too bothered when I am banned.

monument

irish_d wrote: »

An assumption was made about me, Monument. It would seem that you are slightly biased here. Accordingly, I won't be too bothered when I am banned.

No discussion of moderation allowed in-thread. I'm already made that clear.

For the record for other posters: There's no bias, irish_d came here and was refusing to follow the rules from the outset and even after warnings were given and irish_d open that he/she doesn't care about the warnings or the rules (even more so by PM).

We try to give new posters leway but some are intent on causing trouble or having it their way.

-- moderator

KwackerJack

RainyDay wrote: »

Can they or do they physically restrain?

This may have changed but technically the Tram and platform are private property. Obviously they allow passengers the right to enter as paying customers but if for any reason you are asked to leave yu will only be asked once. After that they can remove you with force and when the Gardai arrive you can say what you like in regards to being removed by force but the Gardai wont entertain it as you were technically trespassing when you refused to leave.

The rear of the ticket states you that you agree with the by-laws, if not then dont use the service and ask for a refund.


In these Bye-laws - “authorised person” means any officer, employee or agent of an operator acting in the execution of his or her duty upon or in connection with a light railway or any member of the Garda Síochána whose attendance is requested on a light railway by an authorised person;


(7) Where a passenger is found on a light rail vehicle without a valid ticket by an authorised person and the passenger refuses to pay the standard fare immediately, the authorised person may request the passenger to leave the light rail vehicle at the next stop and the passenger shall comply with such a request.


@ Irish_D.....as above I have used the word "you" but in a third person context kind of way. If you get my drift!

RainyDay

KwackerJack wrote: »

This may have changed but technically the Tram and platform are private property. Obviously they allow passengers the right to enter as paying customers but if for any reason you are asked to leave yu will only be asked once. After that they can remove you with force and when the Gardai arrive you can say what you like in regards to being removed by force but the Gardai wont entertain it as you were technically trespassing when you refused to leave.

The rear of the ticket states you that you agree with the by-laws, if not then dont use the service and ask for a refund.


In these Bye-laws - “authorised person” means any officer, employee or agent of an operator acting in the execution of his or her duty upon or in connection with a light railway or any member of the Garda Síochána whose attendance is requested on a light railway by an authorised person;


(7) Where a passenger is found on a light rail vehicle without a valid ticket by an authorised person and the passenger refuses to pay the standard fare immediately, the authorised person may request the passenger to leave the light rail vehicle at the next stop and the passenger shall comply with such a request.


@ Irish_D.....as above I have used the word "you" but in a third person context kind of way. If you get my drift!

I get your drift, but I was really asking the opposite question - can they restrain you if you choose to leave? Let's say you refuse to give your name, or just refuse to engage with the inspector and walk away - can they hold you for the Gardai?

GM228

RainyDay wrote: »

I get your drift, but I was really asking the opposite question - can they restrain you if you choose to leave? Let's say you refuse to give your name, or just refuse to engage with the inspector and walk away - can they hold you for the Gardai?

Yes they can arrest you without warrant in circumstances where the authorised officer considers it to be justified, and hold you for the Gardaí if they reasonably suspect you have contravened a bye-law etc.

RainyDay

GM228 wrote: »

Yes they can arrest you without warrant in circumstances where the authorised officer considers it to be justified, and hold you for the Gardaí if they reasonably suspect you have contravened a bye-law etc.

And do they? Do they physically restrain fare-dodgers?

GM228

RainyDay wrote: »

And do they? Do they physically restrain fare-dodgers?

They have the power to, weather or not they exercise that power (or have done so in the past) I don't know.