Militant Pro-Choicers in Ireland

FinnLizzy

I consider myself Pro-Choice, but only if it's a last resort (ie. rape, incest, risk of death) and I'm sure there are many like me.

I know that abortion has a serious opposition in Ireland and their opponents range from people who believe abortion shouldn't just be taken lightly and encourage contraception, and then you have these lads

I usually see them handing out pictures of aborted fetuses, going on big marches and protesting. And the less credible 'guy on pedistal on Henry Street flaming on about Jesus and Gays'.

And anyone that has been in Catholic education would have gotten the info about abortions and how it ruins lives.

I was just wondering, if there is any militant pro-choicers in Ireland to take the issue as seriously as their opponents?

I know I'm not one of them, I find abortion unnerving. Yet, I still think it's an option.

Snakeblood

FinnLizzy wrote: »

I consider myself Pro-Choice, but only if it's a last resort (ie. rape, incest, risk of death) and I'm sure there are many like me.

I know that abortion has a serious opposition in Ireland and their opponents range from people who believe abortion shouldn't just be taken lightly and encourage contraception, and then you have http://www.youthdefence.ie/

I usually see them handing out pictures of aborted fetuses, going on big marches and protesting. And the less credible 'guy on pedistal on Henry Street flaming on about Jesus and Gays'.

And anyone that has been in Catholic education would have gotten the info about abortions and how it ruins lives.

I was just wondering, if there is any militant pro-choicers in Ireland to take the issue as seriously as their opponents?

I know I'm not one of them, I find abortion unnerving. Yet, I still think it's an option.

IBTCoathanger

sensibleken

'Militant' pro lifers blow up abortion clinics. Im not sure what militant pro choicers would blow up.

Dana maybe.

FinnLizzy

sensibleken wrote: »

'Militant' pro lifers blow up abortion clinics. Im not sure what militant pro choicers would blow up.

Dana maybe.

Please, having that bimbo join your cause has as much credibility as a bearded man with a sandwich board.

pragmatic1

Never met a militant pro-choicer in my life. In my family the women are all pro-life and all the men are pro-choice.

sensibleken

FinnLizzy wrote: »

Please, having that bimbo join your cause has as much credibility as a bearded man with a sandwich board.

ah now. Sandwich dave says much more intelligent things than Dana

CarMe

I would consider myself very much pro choice. In saying this, when I went to buy a pregnancy test just over a year ago I hoped all the way back from the chemist that I wasn't. My mam had just been diagnosed with terminal cancer two days before, I felt at 23 and living in a house share on a pretty low wage and my boyfriend out of work I just felt we weren't ready. It had been my dream to go traveling. However when the test said pregnant 3+ I sat down and was filled with a joyous happiness. I read that my baby was already the size of an Apple pip, so for the rest of my pregnancy became lovingly known as Pip.
I sit here just over a year later with my beautiful daughter and I know abortion was never ever an option for me. She's my everything and I can't possibly imagine my life without her.
In saying that I still believe every woman and man should be entitled to the choice. Women who sneak off without even telling the father-unless it was rape of.corse- sicken me.

prinz

sensibleken wrote: »

'Militant' pro lifers blow up abortion clinics. Im not sure what militant pro choicers would blow up. Dana maybe.

Make light of it if you will but there have been pro-life demonstrators murdered, physically assaulted etc and pro-life marches attacked. Never quite gets the same attention as the other way around.

As for militant pro-choicers, depends what you call militant. I have heard plenty of wacky opinions from pro-choice people that could be described as being 'militant'.

The King of Moo

Militant pro-choicers would only make things worse and make things too polarised and lower the level of discussion.

Just look at the state of political discourse in America: extremists on both sides of every debate, destined to never agree.

We should work on reducing the number of militants and extremists on both sides.

sensibleken

The King of Moo wrote: »

Militant pro-choicers would only make things worse and make things too polarised and lower the level of discussion.

Just look at the state of political discourse in America: extremists on both sides of every debate, destined to never agree.

We should work on reducing the number of militants and extremists on both sides.

you get extremists everywhere. and you get centrists. its just extremists are the loudest and thats why we only hear them over here

pragmatic1

The King of Moo wrote: »

Militant pro-choicers would only make things worse and make things too polarised and lower the level of discussion.

Just look at the state of political discourse in America: extremists on both sides of every debate, destined to never agree.

We should work on reducing the number of militants and extremists on both sides.

I agree. The political system in the US is going in a very bad direction. Extremes are never good.

FinnLizzy

The King of Moo wrote: »

Militant pro-choicers would only make things worse and make things too polarised and lower the level of discussion.

Just look at the state of political discourse in America: extremists on both sides of every debate, destined to never agree.

We should work on reducing the number of militants and extremists on both sides.

Yeah. America has always been the definition of what IS liberal and conservative. I thought that there were no groups that could form with parts of each side's manifesto. Then I discover the word Libertarian, but there isn't a strong voice for the Libertarian Party, and Ron Paul is a Republican.

I wouldn't consider myself a text-book liberal, since I'm not mad into the pro choice scene, and PC does (excuse the Daily Mail like turn of phrase) go mad every now and again.

The mixed blessing for Ireland's two mainstream parties is that they don't have a passionate belief in anything anymore. Sinn Fein are the only over-passionate party, and for a lot of bad reasons.

The King of Moo

sensibleken wrote: »

you get extremists everywhere. and you get centrists. its just extremists are the loudest and thats why we only hear them over here

That's definitely true, though I think the media in Europe in general doesn't give them as much of an outlet compared to America.

Except for Dana, but it'll probably be a while before we hear much from her again. :pac:

Iang87

i dont understand why people are anti abortion personally. You dont like it dont get one. I dont like onions, i wont be eating one

Badgermonkey

Iang87 wrote: »

i dont understand why people are anti abortion personally. You dont like it dont get one. I dont like onions, i wont be eating one

Speaking of Onions, your post has irritated me and makes me wanna cry.

Iang87

Badgermonkey wrote: »

Speaking of Onions, your post has irritated me and makes me wanna cry.

ok be like that you stinking monkey

My name is URL

CarMe wrote: »

In saying that I still believe every woman and man should be entitled to the choice

I don't know how that could possibly work without causing a few problems.

conorhal

Iang87 wrote: »

i dont understand why people are anti abortion personally. You dont like it dont get one. I dont like onions, i wont be eating one

Yeah, but then you've never been an though onion have you? Nor is an onion likely to grow up to be an idiot like you.

tolosenc

By nature, most pro-choicers are quite laissez-faire, as such if militancy was called for, they probably wouldn't care.

prinz

Iang87 wrote: »

i dont understand why people are anti abortion personally. You dont like it dont get one. I dont like onions, i wont be eating one

Not sure why people are anti-anything really. Anti-rape? Sure just don't rape anyone...

Temptamperu

This really has nothing to do with anyone but the person who feels they dont want a child. I am pro-choice.
Butpur government would rather say no to that and give you money for bringing another waste of space into the world.

Snakeblood

Iang87 wrote: »

ok be like that you stinking monkey

Quit badgering him.

On a more relevant note: I was always staunchly anti abortion, then I was faced with the decision (or 50% of it (more like 49% really)) and it suddenly became a lot harder. I'm still in favour of the right to choose, but we had the baby anyhow. She's good, if you like awesome bundles of cuteness.

Teclo

Pro-choice means pro-violence so there is no real need for them to describe themselves as 'militant'.

Duke Leonal Felmet

I'm pro-death.

AnonoBoy

Teclo wrote: »

Pro-choice means pro-violence

No it doesn't.

Duke Leonal Felmet

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Teclo wrote: »

Pro-choice means pro-violence

No it doesn't.

It is if you make the assumption that all choices will be 'violent'.

Which is just silly.

Napper Hawkins

Teclo wrote: »

Pro-choice means pro-violence so there is no real need for them to describe themselves as 'militant'.

I lol'd.

ash23

FinnLizzy wrote: »

I consider myself Pro-Choice, but only if it's a last resort (ie. rape, incest, risk of death) and I'm sure there are many like me.

You're not really pro-choice then because you're "pro-choice" but only if you get to dictate the circumstances for someone elses choice.

Being truly pro-choice means believing that every person has the right to choose what they do with their lives, bodies etc (within the realms of the law).

Irish women have the right to travel for abortion and if you were pro-choice then that would be the end of it as far as you were concerned. Not about why they were going to do so, just that it was their choice to do so.

In my experience pro-choice also kind of means respecting the decisions of others. So a pro-choice person would respect the right of someone to be pro-life. They might not agree with them but they respect their beliefs and don't try to change them. They just try to prevent people having their choice removed from them or interfered with.

Krieg

Teclo wrote: »

Pro-choice means pro-violence

Any chance you could expand on this?

sensibleken

Krieg wrote: »

Any chance you could expand on this?

Oh christ don't!

old hippy

One of my friends had a termination after a reckless night we spent together. She didn't tell me for 2 years which was upsetting. I would have been behind her either way, I guess it was the not being told that bothered me.

Chuck Stone

FinnLizzy wrote: »

I consider myself Pro-Choice, but only if it's a last resort (ie. rape, incest, risk of death) and I'm sure there are many like me.

That's perhaps the loosest interpretation of pro-choice I've yet heard.

Teclo

Krieg wrote: »

Any chance you could expand on this?

supporting actions which violently end a human life

old hippy

Teclo wrote: »

supporting actions which violently end a human life

Well, abortion certainly isn't that, so we're grand.

My name is URL

Do you have to choose between being pro-choice and anti-abortion? Surely pragmatism has to come in somewhere.

Newsite

Abortion is equal to murder, that much is certain.

And the way they do this is particularly violent.

Temptamperu

Newsite wrote: »

Abortion is equal to murder, that much is certain.

And the way they do this is particularly violent.

So a **** is genocide?

jinxremoving

CarMe wrote: »

I would consider myself very much pro choice. In saying this, when I went to buy a pregnancy test just over a year ago I hoped all the way back from the chemist that I wasn't. My mam had just been diagnosed with terminal cancer two days before, I felt at 23 and living in a house share on a pretty low wage and my boyfriend out of work I just felt we weren't ready. It had been my dream to go traveling. However when the test said pregnant 3+ I sat down and was filled with a joyous happiness. I read that my baby was already the size of an Apple pip, so for the rest of my pregnancy became lovingly known as Pip.
I sit here just over a year later with my beautiful daughter and I know abortion was never ever an option for me. She's my everything and I can't possibly imagine my life without her.
In saying that I still believe every woman and man should be entitled to the choice. Women who sneak off without even telling the father-unless it was rape of.corse- sicken me.

Good for you, but I don't see why you're imposing your morals on other womens bodies? I can see why in an ideal situation the couple should talk about a termination together before it happens but the real world doesn't work like that, there will often be other issues at play so prehaps you should keep from juding situations that you don't fully understand. Also 'sicken me' is very condemning to a woman who is making a big, often emotional decision!

Chuck Stone

My name is URL wrote: »

Do you have to choose between being pro-choice and anti-abortion?

That would be my stance on the matter. I think abortion is not something that any normal person is 'pro' about.

Napper Hawkins

Chuck Stone wrote: »

That would be my stance on the matter. I think abortion is not something that any normal person is 'pro' about.

Yep, I'm pro-choice and anti abortion (after a certain amount of time.)

Go figure that one out.

jinxremoving

Chuck Stone wrote: »

That would be my stance on the matter. I think abortion is not something that any normal person is 'pro' about.

I'm sure some people are. its not about being pro abortion as such, more pro the choice + right of every woman to have one if she so wishes.

ash23

My name is URL wrote: »

Do you have to choose between being pro-choice and anti-abortion? Surely pragmatism has to come in somewhere.

As long as the law allows women to travel for any reason for an abortion then being pro-choice means supporting that choice.
Otherwise you're anti-abortion except when someone is raped or in cases of incest or whatever other beliefs you have.

And again, pro choice doesn't mean pro-abortion. It just means pro-choice.
I'm not pro-abortion. I didn't have one myself. But I respect the right of other women to make that choice for themselves.

Chuck Stone

Newsite wrote: »

And the way they do this is particularly violent.

Violence against dividing cells?

Newsite

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Violence against dividing cells?

Against life. The reason it's on a par with murder is the total rejection of God, of life, rejection of one of the fundamental reasons we are on this planet and of how we all came to be.

the_syco

Teclo wrote: »

supporting actions which violently end a human life

How does having the baby violently end a human life? You do understand the word "choice, don't you?

=-=

Also, wouldn't pro-life also be against the morning after pill for rape victims? Or are they pro-life only for certain incidents?

ash23

Newsite wrote: »

Against life. The reason it's on a par with murder is the total rejection of God, of life, rejection of one of the fundamental reasons we are on this planet and of how we all came to be.

We're here because of evolution and cell division.....not because of "god"

the_syco

Newsite wrote: »

the total rejection of God

So if I were to covert from whatever religion you believe in, and convert to some other whackjob religion, you see the conversion as "violent"? This makes no sense. Well, more sense than your argument, but that's not hard :P

Newsite

the_syco wrote: »

So if I were to covert from whatever religion you believe in, and convert to some other whackjob religion, you see the conversion as "violent"? This makes no sense. Well, more sense than your argument, but that's not hard :P

You're right. It doesn't make any sense.

Ellis Dee

FinnLizzy wrote: »

I consider myself Pro-Choice, but only if it's a last resort (ie. rape, incest, risk of death) and I'm sure there are many like me.

I know that abortion has a serious opposition in Ireland and their opponents range from people who believe abortion shouldn't just be taken lightly and encourage contraception, and then you have these lads

I usually see them handing out pictures of aborted fetuses, going on big marches and protesting. And the less credible 'guy on pedistal on Henry Street flaming on about Jesus and Gays'.

And anyone that has been in Catholic education would have gotten the info about abortions and how it ruins lives.

I was just wondering, if there is any militant pro-choicers in Ireland to take the issue as seriously as their opponents?

I know I'm not one of them, I find abortion unnerving. Yet, I still think it's an option.

Since I was fortunate enough to escape from Ireland and the malign influence of that hypocritical "whited sepulchre" the kiddy-fiddler church and its minions at a very early age, and since I am a man and therefore will never need an abortion, in addition to which I spend about half my time in a country where abortion is available de facto on demand, I prefer to leave it up to women what to do with their bodies and reproductive processes.;)

And, as I have often pointed out, Ireland long ago found "an Irish solution to the Irish question of abortion". That solution is called "England". Unless the British wind their legislative clock backwards a century at least, Irish women who feel an abortion is the right option for them will suffer only relatively little inconvenience in their efforts to get one. :rolleyes:

However, I believe militant pro-choicers are unlikely ever to appear. What would they be called if they sent young thuggish bullying busibodies that would be a mirror image of those Youth Defence scum onto the streets? Youth Offence, maybe? And what kind of, probably fabricated, gory images would they be able to shove in the faces of ordinary citizens who are just going about their business?:mad:

Pro-choicers are only asking to be left alone, not to have others' weird ideas of what some imaginary sky fairy wants forced on them. I cannot imagine any pro-choicer wanting to force others to have abortions. On the other hand, if they ever felt they needed to ward off the attacks and pestering of the religious fundamentalist nut-jobs and formed some kind of organised group to shield decent people from the likes of the Youth Defence scumbags, they would only be denounced by many of the reactionary elements in our society and media as "vigilantes".:cool:

Chuck Stone

Newsite wrote: »

Against life. The reason it's on a par with murder is the total rejection of God, of life, rejection of one of the fundamental reasons we are on this planet and of how we all came to be.

Define life?

Btw my god is a better one than yours and he's pro-choice so maybe they could argue that among themselves while we stay in the real world.

mackg

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Violence against dividing cells?

United they stand, divided they fall.