No More CDs?

viadah

http://www.side-line.com/news_comments.php?id=46980_0_2_0_C

From an electro industrial news page I know but of topical interest to all, the death of the CD being predicted in a little over a year. Personally, I'm poor so have to resort to stealing my music but given the funds I'd have everything on officially packaged CD. Seems like a common sense move by the labels but I've always liked the feel of something substantial in my hands (fwooooar...) and it'll prolli affect me most in just making me feel old. Well, older.

Malice

This doesn't surprise me. I haven't bought an audio CD in years. In fact I'm struggling to remember the last one I bought.

Motley Crue

I went to HMV the other night and the place is packed and packed with rows and rows of CDs of all different genres and styles, and I refuse to believe the majority of that is dead stock....I bought a CD the other night, from Turisas, I could have stole their album but since I was getting into their gig for free and I couldn't find a T Shirt that fit me I wanted to support the band in some small way. I did get it signed though which made buying the CD worthwhile.

I don't buy loads of albums but, yes, I would buy a few here and there - I prefer something physical in terms of an album I love instead of a digital album. I use downloading to test the water so to speak

Somnus

I'd hate to see CD's gone. I love having a physical product (Too bad I wasn't born during the vinyl era!!) and it brings a bit of material value to the music.

I still buy CD's now and then and, like Motley, I use downloading to test out a band/album etc. I've bought plenty of albums I had downloaded first.

Music has so little value now that I'd hate to see the last of it go. There's also a certain amount of nostalgia when thinking back to all the years I spent excitedly opening a CD and reading through the manual as I listened.

But I'm not surprised by the thought of it. CDs are so cheap now compared to before. I got the 2-disc deluxe edition of Opeth's Heritage for €14 in HMV, €1 dearer than the standard 1 disc version!
It's a good time for people who buy music

Kess73

I am still a physical copy man, and will be until the time comes when there is no physical alternative.

I bought vinyl first, then switched to cassette, briefly toyed with the minidisc format, and since then it has been cds.

Much prefer having an actual copy of an album, and only download (legally) every now and then.

What I rarely do is buy any in the likes of HMV anymore as it is far cheaper to get cds online.

Jordan 199

Kess73 wrote: »

I am still a physical copy man, and will be until the time comes when there is no physical alternative.

I agree. I love to have a physical copy of my music.

I just love looking through the little booklet and looking at the photo's, reading the song lyrics, where the album was recorded and how long it took etc...

Rush & Megadeth, I love the artwork on their cd's. It's stunning.

LH Pathe

Good riddance last one I stole was.. back in '01 I think. Don't see the point of producing physical product from valuable resources for me to steal!! Sooner just rip it than rip it off.. From audio perspective its not a physical thing anyhow. But I'll miss the mini LP style reproductions complete with paper sleeve

lord lucan

Kess73 wrote: »

I am still a physical copy man, and will be until the time comes when there is no physical alternative.

I bought vinyl first, then switched to cassette, briefly toyed with the minidisc format, and since then it has been cds.

Much prefer having an actual copy of an album, and only download (legally) every now and then.

What I rarely do is buy any in the likes of HMV anymore as it is far cheaper to get cds online.

Pretty much the same here,though skipped the minidisc phase. Despite having all my cd's(albums/singles) burned and on my ipod and backed up to an external hard drive i'm loathe to get rid of any of the CD's i have. Anthrax's Worship Music is the first album in years that i've bought online only and have no physical copy. I may still go out to buy it though as it feels weird having it only in a digital format with only he cover artwork jpg as a physical reference.

Baggio...

I love the idea of having CDs, but the reality is they are all now sitting in a box gathering dust. But my Mp3 player is getting lotsa' love.

NIBBS

Dr.Poca wrote: »

But I'm not surprised by the thought of it. CDs are so cheap now compared to before. I got the 2-disc deluxe edition of Opeth's Heritage for €14 in HMV, €1 dearer than the standard 1 disc version!
It's a good time for people who buy music

There's part of the problem Poca - to believe that €14 in HMV is cheap for a CD :eek:

CD's are produced for practically nothing, add in the royalty payments, sleeves, marketting etc and you are still talking about small price, not sure what the exact figures are but when HMV were selling new CD's for over €20 and it was only costing approx €2.50 all in before they got it I had stopped buying from retail shops...........overheads and everything else added in they were just ripping people off, now they are in trouble they are reducing the prices to what they should have been all along and crying about it......
I still think there's a big enough market for CD's just that people use different outlets etc.....I ordered a lot of discount stuff last week - 12 CD's arrived this morning....another 16 on the way, but I also legally download, people don't seem to understand or care about the fact that if you only illegally download music the business dies, if it dies no more music, nothing fresh gets created and you've destroyed it yourself.......

Yes this is happening, or will happen very soon. Recorded music will predominantly only exist in digital form, files and folders. It makes me quite sad. First CD I (was) bought was the single for Eric Clapton's Tears in Heaven, still have it.

NIBBS

NIBBS wrote: »

There's part of the problem Poca - to believe that €14 in HMV is cheap for a CD :eek:

CD's are produced for practically nothing, add in the royalty payments, sleeves, marketting etc and you are still talking about small price, not sure what the exact figures are but when HMV were selling new CD's for over €20 and it was only costing approx €2.50 all in before they got it I had stopped buying from retail shops...........overheads and everything else added in they were just ripping people off, now they are in trouble they are reducing the prices to what they should have been all along and crying about it......
I still think there's a big enough market for CD's just that people use different outlets etc.....I ordered a lot of discount stuff last week - 12 CD's arrived this morning....another 16 on the way, but I also legally download, people don't seem to understand or care about the fact that if you only illegally download music the business dies, if it dies no more music, nothing fresh gets created and you've destroyed it yourself.......

The vast majority of illegal downloaders don't even think of it that way unfortunately. I'm not going to go all pious here as I stole somebody elses music myself in the past, but if it keeps going the way it is going then the music business as we know it will die, sure where will the money come from??

weisses

I really dont mind Cd's being gone ... most music i have is in mp3 format anyways

But i really like the special editions from bands ...some SE are a piece of art in itself ...hate to see that go

Motley Crue

stankratz wrote: »

The vast majority of illegal downloaders don't even think of it that way unfortunately. I'm not going to go all pious here as I stole somebody elses music myself in the past, but if it keeps going the way it is going then the music business as we know it will die, sure where will the money come from??

True enough, comments made in my own thread, but alongside that I would also like to point out one important thing and it's that most of us here who have downloaded music illegally have shown restraint (as in we wouldn't just download hundreds of albums because we can) and yet there are people filling up 80GB IPods right now with stolen songs, stolen music and stolen videos

Furthermore, Megadeth's new album is out, I've heard one song - Near Dead - and yet I haven't bothered listening to the rest of it yet. I'm sure it's good, I could get it right now off Pirate Bay, have it in a few moments. But I don't want too because I think I've already downloaded a little too much these past few weeks. It's my choice and I have to be honest enough to abide by what I'm saying here but the point is I could download everything but where would the fun be, what would be the point.

Catari Jaguar

Netbooks don't even have disc drives. Do they sell discmans anymore?!

I download everything. Rip the CD and then what?? It's like a shell, takes up space, costs too much to produce, bad for the environment etc. Collosal waste of resources. It should all be digital. Cut out the middle man. I'm talking about DVDs here too.

Bands I listen to are already massive and loaded so **** em, I'll rip them off. I'll spend 70 quid on a ticket to see them live so, really they're ripping me off.

Otherwise they're artists who are dead, who gets their royalties? Some bratty relative. Whatever. If everyone decides from here on out to download Jimi Hendrix or Janis Joplin illegally what does it matter? Won't kill the music industry, the music's already been made and they won't be making anymore.

As for cover art... put it on a T Shirt or on a poster. I'd buy that!

Talking about physical copies and stuff, I take it that's mainly from past bands you've fond memories of? The CDs/ Vinyl/ tape is still out there to pick up second hand, this is future music we're talking about.

I mean, I saw a Warren G tape in Oxfam today. What's the point in that? It'll still be around in decades to come. Unwanted and unlistened to... can't delete that.

Nephilim Wolf

I was born back in the era of vinyls, so CDs to me are great. I'll still download albums, but only really to see are they any good or not. Some great metal bands released class albums this year like Amorphis, Arch Enemy, Septic Flesh, Amon Amarth, Omnium Gatherum, Moonsorrow etc, so I will be buying them on CD when I have the money. I would also miss CDs because of the digipacs and booklets. I always love to read the inner notes of albums that have been remastered, and what the band or lead singer has to say about the album now.

Motley Crue

cherub rock wrote: »

I download everything. Rip the CD and then what?? It's like a shell, takes up space, costs too much to produce, bad for the environment etc. Collosal waste of resources. It should all be digital. Cut out the middle man. I'm talking about DVDs here too.

If you're prepared to pay for it then that's fine, although the argument remains that without proper infringement on those who illegally download more obscure genre's will be affected the most.

cherub rock wrote: »

Bands I listen to are already massive and loaded so **** em, I'll rip them off.

Like who, cause you'd be surprised who isn't earning the kind of money you think they are. They don't all still do it for the love of their art.

cherub rock wrote: »

I'll spend 70 quid on a ticket to see them live so, really they're ripping me off.

No, they're not, the promoters and "THE STATE" are ripping you off, so is the printing company, Ticketmaster and the company that issues the license for a public performance. Then there's the staff for the venue, security checks, red tape, legal requirements, lighting and heating bills, wages etc etc

The band themselves get a flat fee per gig or per tour (per gig if they're very lucky and been in the business long enough to pack the 02 or somewhere) whereas a lot of bands who do a UK tour actually lose money by doing an Irish date (or just about break even) if the gig doesn't sell well. In those cases they perform solely for the fans.

It's worse if the band you want to see is the support act. They make nothing from ticket sales and normally, if they're a special guest or main support, get a basic flat fee before the tour from the main band or booking agent. Bands 2 and 3 down on the support bill might make a fee of some-sort (to cover their expenses plus basic wage for 10 hours of 24 per day) but that doesn't always happen and in some cases, believe it or not, a band will pay to perform on tour with a big name just to reap the supposed rewards of promotion.

cherub rock wrote: »

Otherwise they're artists who are dead, who gets their royalties? Some bratty relative. Whatever. If everyone decides from here on out to download Jimi Hendrix or Janis Joplin illegally what does it matter? Won't kill the music industry, the music's already been made and they won't be making anymore.

This week in the news it was announced that Elvis Presley's royalties (who died later than Hendrix and Joplin) have gone unpaid in Germany. His estate are looking for the bill, somewhere around £6 million pounds

Actually most dead celebrities make more money then live ones, well their estates do, and it affects a lot of what goes on - forget public domain rights, Elvis will go on making Artista money until 2023...they bought the rights from Presley for little under £3.5 million in 1973

http://www.contactmusic.com/news/elvis-presley-trustees-suing-over-royalties_1243152

cherub rock wrote: »

As for cover art... put it on a T Shirt or on a poster. I'd buy that!

Printing cost, shipping cost, manufacturing - the cost would be astronomical

cherub rock wrote: »

Talking about physical copies and stuff, I take it that's mainly from past bands you've fond memories of? The CDs/ Vinyl/ tape is still out there to pick up second hand, this is future music we're talking about.

Everyone who likes music now would like to think in 20 years there are current bands we can have fond memories about

viadah

When Tool's new album hits, hopefully before the end of next year, I'll be buying that on the day of release and will refuse to download it (same procedure went for '10,000 Days), but that's more a religious decision than anything else.

Catari Jaguar

Some of the personal fortunes are staggering. Here's the top tour earnings for 2011.

U2 topped it. Surprise surprise.

The Irish rockers pulled in $195 million after bringing their 360 tour to a close, with the tour itself banking over $700 million.

2. Bon Jovi ($125m) (£77m)
3. Elton John ($100m) (£61m)
4. Lady Gaga ($90m) (£55m)
5. Michael Buble ($70m) (£43m)
6. Paul McCartney ($67m) (£41m)
7. Black Eyed Peas ($61m) (£37.5m)
8. Eagles ($60m) (£37m)
9. Justin Bieber ($53m) (£32m)
10. Dave Matthews Band ($51m) (£31m)
11. Toby Keith ($50m) (£30m)
12. Usher ($46m) (£28m)
13. Taylor Swift $45m) (£27.5m)
14. Katy Perry ($44m) (£27m)
15. Brad Paisley ($40m) (£24m)
16. Tom Petty & the Heartbreaks ($38m) (£23m)
17. Jay-Z ($38m) (£23m)
18. AC/DC ($35m) (£21m)
18. Sean "Diddy" Combs ($35m) (£21m)
18. Beyonce ($35m) (£21m)
18. Tim McGraw ($35m) (£21m)
18. Muse ($35m) (£21m)
23. Rascal Flatts ($34m) (£20m)
24. Kenny Chesney ($30m) (£18.5m)
25. Rihanna ($29m) (£18m)

http://www.mtv.tv/news/top-2011-richest-music-bands/

nlgbbbblth

The article is unsubstantiated speculation. Yes, CD sales are suffering as people download more. But it's not an "either / or" situation. The market can support different formats.

I started buying vinyl in 1981. By 1986 people were telling me that it would be obselete within a year or two. The record companies did their best to kill it off - aided and abetted by punters who were very quick to abandon the format for cassettes and CDs. I can understand the attraction towards shiny discs (I've bought enough of them over the years) but could never fathom the cassette buzz.

25 years later and sales of new vinyl are reasonably healthy.

MP3s - even at 320 - do not sound great. Compression sucks.

As for discmans - Sony still produce two models.

Physical formats rule.

Alzy

I grew up listening too and then buying vinyl. which I sill have. I moved to C.D. and have a bloody load of them now which combined with the vinyl takes up a lot of space. Doing a big clear-out at present so I bunged everything from c.d. and downloads on to an Ipod and got a docking station. I do like the whole packaging thing and love to look at/read a cover/sleeve or booklet while listening but I guess things move on. If I could I would have a big bad-ass stereo with speakers and rows upon rows of vinyl and c.d.'s but don't have the space. I do think that c.d.'s will stick around tho', just like vinyl has but for the most part people will go digital .. if that's the correct term ... showing me age now lolz

jack presley

I still like physical CDs and will buy them until they aren't available anymore. I know you can download them for free if you're that way inclined but the difference between in price between a legal download (€10) and a CD (€12-13) isn't enough to make me switch to mp3s.

Malice

Motley Crue wrote: »

Printing cost, shipping cost, manufacturing - the cost would be astronomical

Are you saying the costs of selling t-shirts are astronomical?

Motley Crue

Malice wrote: »

Are you saying the costs of selling t-shirts are astronomical?

If the only outlet for your album's cover art was a poster or a T Shirt, and you were a small band regularly touring who didn't have a lot of money, then the cost of printing posters and buying T Shirts to print on would mean that you'd have to spend a lot of money before you stood a chance of making any back.

Selling T Shirts can be the most lucrative thing a band do, on the other hand, it can also be very costly if they don't sell.

I think in that situation they'd be better off not having any album art other than a .jpeg to distribute for media purposes

Malice

Good post Motley Crue. I was just thinking specifically of the Nuclear Blast online store where a whole bunch of t-shirts can be had for less than a tenner.

Motley Crue

Motley Crue wrote: »

Selling T Shirts can be the most lucrative thing a band do, on the other hand, it can also be very costly if they don't sell.

Me and the guys I play with in a band went on tour in August/September and in order to make some money and not just break even we got a couple hundred tshirts printed. Though the shows themselves went great, the tshirt idea didn't do so well, and now we're stuck with most of the tshirts with (now completed) tour dates for 2011 on the back of them. Oh well, at least the OHs have an almost infinite supply of 'pyjama tops':D
So basically we ended up about €600 in the red with the tshirts, but on the flipside we could've made that and more if most of them sold.

deisedave

NIBBS wrote: »

There's part of the problem Poca - to believe that €14 in HMV is cheap for a CD :eek:

CD's are produced for practically nothing, add in the royalty payments, sleeves, marketting etc and you are still talking about small price, not sure what the exact figures are but when HMV were selling new CD's for over €20 and it was only costing approx €2.50 all in before they got it I had stopped buying from retail shops...........overheads and everything else added in they were just ripping people off, now they are in trouble they are reducing the prices to what they should have been all along and crying about it......
I still think there's a big enough market for CD's just that people use different outlets etc.....I ordered a lot of discount stuff last week - 12 CD's arrived this morning....another 16 on the way, but I also legally download, people don't seem to understand or care about the fact that if you only illegally download music the business dies, if it dies no more music, nothing fresh gets created and you've destroyed it yourself.......

Artists who record for the music, would not stop because of money slowing down.

viadah

In the darkness at he back of my head I remember hearing somewhere that products cannot legally be sold for less than cost price, so as cheap as a product is sold for in a shop like HMV at any point is still probably turning a profit.

Daftendirekt

deisedave wrote: »

Artists who record for the music, would not stop because of money slowing down.

Artists who record for the music still have to cover their expenses. Yes, they may well continue making music but they can hardly be expected to cover the costs of studio time, promotion and touring if they can't even hope to break even.