Public Road "Drifting"

randylonghorn

Yep, as I said, I can certainly understand where you're coming from, and I've listened to (and sympathised with) John O'C. and others associated with Galway rally over the years on the subject of some of the "followers" and their behaviour and the problems that causes!

But I would agree with your footnote that event is the wrong word, and gives off the wrong message ... just because there are a couple of spectators doesn't make something an event, any more than if there are a couple of lads playing soccer in the middle of Eyre Square and a couple of lads hanging round watching, that becomes an event.

And yes, I sympathise totally re: the residents issue you mention, not alone is it something which has be-devilled rallying but the few places around the country which could safely be used for drift practice have fallen in numbers over the last couple of years because residents have inevitably said NIMBY!

Nor, by the way, would I deny that a few eejits with no sense of responibility at all do not help the case ... and that they are probably the same eejits who cause the rally people the most headaches, and cause the bad publicity.

What I would argue, I suppose, is that the eejits shouldn't be allowed to be seen as the face of drifting, or to come to be representative of it, any more than the eejits who bomb it up the road to Howth Head late at night are or should be allowed to be seen as the face of rallying.

corktina

challengemaster wrote: »

Give them somewhere legal to practice cheaply and most of them will, tbh.

GIVE them? are you suggesting the taxpayer should pay for it?

Folks are trying to justify drifting on a bypass as there were no other cars there, so bare knuckle fist fighting is fine too is it?

Try and explain that it's fine to a Garda.

seamus

The "quiet road" argument is irrelevant. I live on a relatively quiet road and I've seen one accident caused by drifting morons and countless near misses.

The only safe road to drift on is a closed road. Anyone who can't see that shouldn't even be allowed have a licence. I would rather that anyone doing this illegally blocked the road off rather than taking the risk that someone else might be using it.

Matt Simis

seamus wrote: »

The "quiet road" argument is irrelevant. I live on a relatively quiet road and I've seen one accident caused by drifting morons and countless near misses.

The only safe road to drift on is a closed road. Anyone who can't see that shouldn't even be allowed have a licence. I would rather that anyone doing this illegally blocked the road off rather than taking the risk that someone else might be using it.

I would assume they have spotters at exits and entrances, which effectively controls who is there and stops people floating in. They are also going quite slow IMO, the biggest danger there is to the cars.

I can see why many people would be against this but I genuinely am not too bothered by the video. Its actually well put together and not near as chavvy as I feared. Many "normal" people were against the Salt Flat racing in the US (well that was also for bootlegging) which later became a bonefide motorsport (Nascar).In Oz they have meet ups in quiet places too (but they are public roads and not closed and daytime) and the police drop by to keep an eye on things, but they can hoon about with only themselves and cars to hurt.

I think any semblance of a car culture in Ireland should be nurtured proactively not stamped out. It is, IMO, beneficial in many ways not to see cars as trains with steering wheels or rolling bombs ready to explode.

RoverJames wrote: »

Folks are trying to justify drifting on a bypass as there were no other cars there, so bare knuckle fist fighting is fine too is it?

Surely its not illegal for people to sign up to a fight club and bare knuckle it out? Unless you mean unregulated/untaxed gambling?

Good video, I enjoyed that. I have to say I really enjoy watching drifting, I enjoy its gracefulness and would actually prefer to watch whats in that video than a rally. I would have no problem with that video from a safely aspect either, quiet roads, middle of the night and it looks well organised.

Henry Ford III

Nice cars, nice video.

The issue however is using public roads for drifting, and it's just not on. It doesn't matter if they have spotters, radios, and it's done at night.

They can rent a track if they wish.

Matt Simis

Matt Simis wrote: »

............


Surely its not illegal for people to sign up to a fight club and bare knuckle it out? Unless you mean unregulated/untaxed gambling?

It's not illegal to drift in Mondello
I was referring to bare knuckle fist fights that occur outside of a "fight club" with unlicensed fighters, gambling or not, that's illegal.

Time and place for everything.

thirtythirty

Ardennes1944 wrote: »

Are we done boys and girl? We need pudzey to throw a few lighthearted questions about drifting into the mix i feel.

I have a question - would those guys be looking at replacing their tyres after each night, or how do they hold up?

neilthefunkeone

Was i the only one hoping to see a kerb destroy one of those polished rims!!

I must be sick so!!

I can't see how this is reckoned to be anyway safe, the cars were drifting past a crowd of onlookers, lose control there and it gets very messy.

mb1725

spottyelephant wrote: »

I have a question - would those guys be looking at replacing their tyres after each night, or how do they hold up?

That thought struck me too, do these guys drive home afterwards at normal speeds on these tyres?

murphhy

mb1725 wrote: »

That thought struck me too, do these guys drive home afterwards at normal speeds on these tyres?

There would be plenty of thread left on their tires, you would have seen sparks coming off their tires if they were gone bald and they wern't burning the tires that much, just enough to keep them sideways. They two lads are some pilots. And i would also like to add that, as you can see in the video, they dont go near the spectators and when control is lost the car is stopped within a second.

murphhy

murphhy wrote: »

............... And i would also like to add that, as you can see in the video, they dont go near the spectators and when control is lost the car is stopped within a second.

They're a few car lengths away from them, stopped within a 2nd when control is lost, are you well?

murphhy

RoverJames wrote: »

They're a few car lengths away from them, stopped within a 2nd when control is lost, are you well?

True but the momentum of the car would carry the car away from the spectators if they lost control. At any point did the spectators look scared or move away???

iphone4g

murphhy wrote: »

they dont go near the spectators and when control is lost the car is stopped within a second.

If that was the case control wouldn't be lost then!!

cpoh1

Rear tyres would be budget good brands or just budget full stop. Tyres are fine for driving home too.

Dont know why people have an issue with this. Its night time, its quiet, they are travelling at low speeds (less than 50kph anyway) and are perfectly in control of their vehicles.

There are people hooning around and taking risks on public roads everyday. Diesel reps racing off lights, provisional drivers with a months experience out on their own, people overtaking on white lines with oncoming traffic. That doesnt make what these lads are doing angelic but at least they are risk assessing it and taking others into consideration and being sensible.

At the end of the day i dont know anyone who is into cars with a RWD who hasnt let the arse hang out on a roundabout or at a quiet junction. Its all part of the fun of owning a RWD car

murphhy

iphone4g wrote: »

If that was the case control wouldn't be lost then!!

I dont understand this statement. Check at 4 minutes in the video, you see the trueno lose control and come to a complete stop in 1 second

murphhy

murphhy wrote: »

There would be plenty of thread left on their tires, you would have seen sparks coming off their tires if they were gone bald and they wern't burning the tires that much, just enough to keep them sideways. They two lads are some pilots. And i would also like to add that, as you can see in the video, they dont go near the spectators and when control is lost the car is stopped within a second.

RoverJames wrote: »

They're a few car lengths away from them, stopped within a 2nd when control is lost, are you well?

murphhy wrote: »

True but the momentum of the car would carry the car away from the spectators if they lost control. At any point did the spectators look scared or move away???

Considering you initially stated they didn't go near the spectators to then agreeing with me when I said they were within a few car lengths of them I don't expect you to be partaking in a reasonable debate.

However, if control is lost it's difficult to know which way momentum will take the car. The spectators didn't move away as control wasn't lost, an accident is just that, an accident.

murphhy

RoverJames wrote: »

Considering you initially stated they didn't go near the spectators to then agreeing with me when I said they were within a few car lengths of them I don't expect you to be partaking in a reasonable debate.

However, if control is lost it's difficult to know which way momentum will take the car. The spectators didn't move away as control wasn't lost, an accident is just that, an accident.

IMO going close to the spectators would be within 1 car length, they are not near that close to them at any stage. Also you never defined what a few car lengths was so dont try that argument with me.

Do you have any experience with drifting? Have you even been to a a drifting even such as prodrive? Because if you haven't you cant possibly understand drifting and the way in which the momentum would carry the cars. Its not like driving on ice, they are on, what looks like, a dry road so have plenty of grip and as i already stated the trueno was stopped within a second when the driver lost control and hardly moved 5 meters

murphhy

murphhy wrote: »

IMO going close to the spectators would be within 1 car length, they are not near that close to them at any stage. Also you never defined what a few car lengths was so dont try that argument with me.

Do you have any experience with drifting? Have you even been to a a drifting even such as prodrive? Because if you haven't you cant possibly understand drifting and the way in which the momentum would carry the cars. Its not like driving on ice, they are on, what looks like, a dry road so have plenty of grip and as i already stated the trueno was stopped within a second when the driver lost control and hardly moved 5 meters

If they lose control turning the corner it is quite plausable that the car may plough into the direction of the spectators. The fact that I have not been to an event such as prodrive doesn't change that.

You don't need to be attending events to "understand" drifting as you put it.

I would define a few car lengths as 3, if you reckon anything more than 1 car length is not close thats fine bit if the car is out of control a length isn't much really.

murphhy

RoverJames wrote: »

If they lose control turning the corner it is quite plausable that the car may plough into the direction of the spectators. The fact that I have not been to an event such as prodrive doesn't change that.

Doesn't matter the car would have been stopped well before getting anywhere close to the spectators ( and by that i mean a good 10-20 meters). And it does, you dont understand how the momentum of a car being drifted works or understand the experience and skill it takes to drift, even in a loss of control situation these drivers would be able to do enough to avoid spectators

murphhy

murphhy wrote: »

Doesn't matter the car would have been stopped well before getting anywhere close to the spectators ( and by that i mean a good 10-20 meters). And it does, you dont understand how the momentum of a car being drifted works or understand the experience and skill it takes to drift, even in a loss of control situation these drivers would be able to do enough to avoid spectators

I don't think you understand the principle of an accident to be honest.
If the drift turns into an out of control car anything can happen, just because I reckon drifting on a road is potentially dangerous as well as illegal and you disagree with that it doesn't make such activity immune from accidents or tragedy.

To think that "even in a loss of control situation these drivers would be able to do enough to avoid spectators" is nothing short of lunacy. If they are out of control they're out of control.

Do you even have a car? You seem to be about 14.

murphhy

RoverJames wrote: »

I don't think you understand the principle of an accident to be honest.
If the drift turns into an out of control car anything can happen, just because I reckon drifting on a road is potentially dangerous as well as illegal and you disagree with that it doesn't make such activity immune from accidents or tragedy.

To think that "even in a loss of control situation these drivers would be able to do enough to avoid spectators" is nothing short of lunacy. If they are out of control they're out of control.

Do you even have a car? You seem to be about 14.

Look if you havnt been in a car being drifted or seen a drift event you just cant understand the amount of control that an experienced driver has even in what appears like an out of control situation. I have been in cars being drifted and have attended drift events.

I do have a car, I'm 20 and have been complimented many times on my driving, especially in challenging conditions such as snow and ice

RoverJames

RoverJames wrote: »

I don't think you understand the principle of an accident to be honest.
If the drift turns into an out of control car anything can happen, just because I reckon drifting on a road is potentially dangerous as well as illegal and you disagree with that it doesn't make such activity immune from accidents or tragedy.

To think that "even in a loss of control situation these drivers would be able to do enough to avoid spectators" is nothing short of lunacy. If they are out of control they're out of control.

Do you even have a car? You seem to be about 14.

Its not like they are innocent bystanders in any case they are there to watch the drifting, they know the dangers and presumably are ready to get out of the way.

You can stand pretty much where you want when the galway rally passes near my house if you walk through the fields and keep away from the marshals there is nothing stopping you being right beside the cars I have some videos showing how close I could get but dont have them with me now.

Cassandra Refined Slot

Cassandra Refined Slot wrote: »

Its not like they are innocent bystanders in any case they are there to watch the drifting, they know the dangers and presumably are ready to get out of the way.............

But that's my point, it's potentially dangerous, also as it's on a public road it's illegal. Murph seems to think it's not anyway dangerous as the drivers are so unreal.

Mr. Presentable

My opinion? They are on public roads. They are often on the wrong side of the road. They are often over the limit. They are operating with no consideration for other road users other than it is late at night.

That they have nowhere formal to do it is not an excuse - you wouldn't allow them to shoot targets in public just because there was no local rifle range.

Where are the Gardai?

murphhy

murphhy wrote: »

Look if you havnt been in a car being drifted or seen a drift event you just cant understand the amount of control that an experienced driver has even in what appears like an out of control situation. I have been in cars being drifted and have attended drift events.

I do have a car, I'm 20 and have been complimented many times on my driving, especially in challenging conditions such as snow and ice

http://www.google.ie/#hl=en&sugexp=kjrmc&cp=12&gs_id=1a&xhr=t&q=drifting+accidents&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&source=hp&pbx=1&oq=drifting+acc&aq=0&aqi=g4&aql=f&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=bafb8e3af360e0e6&biw=1280&bih=933

This one in particular..
http://www.wreckedmagazine.com/watchvideo/lativa-drifting-accident---people-hit-graphi

murphhy

RoverJames wrote: »

But that's my point, it's potentially dangerous, also as it's on a public road it's illegal. Murph seems to think it's not anyway dangerous as the drivers are so unreal.

Ya thats exatly my point, i couldnt find the words to say it that clearly but you done it for me, thank you james

RobAMerc

murphhy wrote: »

I'm 20 and have been complimented many times on my driving, especially in challenging conditions such as snow and ice

Uh oh !

Henry Ford III

RoverJames wrote: »

http://www.wreckedmagazine.com/watchvideo/lativa-drifting-accident---people-hit-graphi

Nasty.

The thing is though that self appointed experts such as murphhy and others are actually way better skilled than that guy (at least in their own opinion), and as such are fully entitled to practice drifting on public roads.

Henry Ford III

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Nasty.

................

That one is nothing short of horrific. God forbid anything like that happens at one of the midnight events here without an ambulance on hand.

seamus

murphhy wrote: »

Look if you havnt been in a car being drifted or seen a drift event you just cant understand the amount of control that an experienced driver has even in what appears like an out of control situation. I have been in cars being drifted and have attended drift events.

I do have a car, I'm 20 and have been complimented many times on my driving, especially in challenging conditions such as snow and ice

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

wobbles

I absolutely hate drifting/drifters/the whole drifting scene with a passion. But the camera editing in that video was excellent. Only let down by the shaky camera work while they were drifting.

cpoh1

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

My opinion? They are on public roads. They are often on the wrong side of the road. They are often over the limit. They are operating with no consideration for other road users other than it is late at night.

That they have nowhere formal to do it is not an excuse - you wouldn't allow them to shoot targets in public just because there was no local rifle range.

Where are the Gardai?

To be fair in mitigation of this:

They are on public roads, however, these are seldom used, and utilised at unsociable hours. To say they are operating with no consideration for other road users is nonsense - there are none around!

Drifting rarely involves driving at crazy speeds, most drifts are carried out at 30kph with a little over that speed to generate the drift. Maybe on track in pro drift competitions they hit 120-140kph but for road drifting its not typically breaking the speed limit.

Comparing letting the tail of your car hang out for a couple of seconds in a deserted inductrial estate to shooting targets in public is pure boards hyperbole, it could only be said on here.

Hands up any rwd car owners on here who have never let the tail slide out even just a little? Go on you know you want to

cpoh1

seamus wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

I think that is the closest thing to explaining the poor standard of driving in this country and the attitude of 90% of boards posters!

bryaner

murphhy wrote: »

Look if you havnt been in a car being drifted or seen a drift event you just cant understand the amount of control that an experienced driver has even in what appears like an out of control situation. I have been in cars being drifted and have attended drift events.

I do have a car, I'm 20 and have been complimented many times on my driving, especially in challenging conditions such as snow and ice

Mr. Presentable

cpoh1 wrote: »

To be fair in mitigation of this:

They are on public roads, however, these are seldom used, and utilised at unsociable hours. To say they are operating with no consideration for other road users is nonsense - there are none around!

Waterford bypass?

And if they are assuming there are no other users on a public road they are being doubly reckless.

I'm sorry not to support your views on this, but if you want to perform with your car do it on a private track.

Mr. Presentable

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

Waterford bypass?

And if they are assuming there are no other users on a public road they are being doubly reckless.

I'm sorry not to support your views on this, but if you want to perform with your car do it on a private track.

I see very little if any risk to the general public in that video. The roundabout is deserted, and if they do see a car they can straighten up, they are not even travelling any faster than you would be driving around the roundabout either so another car should not find itself involved unless the it drove out in front of them.

The second part is obviously an area where nothing is happening at that time of night and Im sure it has been well scouted, if for nothing else but to make sure there is no garda presence or people who will report them.

There is far far more dangerous things going on on the roads in the middle of the day but few would get the reaction this has.

Cassandra Refined Slot

Cassandra Refined Slot wrote: »

......

There is far far more dangerous things going on on the roads in the middle of the day but few would get the reaction this has.

..because most folk would agree they're dangerous perhaps

cpoh1

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

Waterford bypass?

And if they are assuming there are no other users on a public road they are being doubly reckless.

I'm sorry not to support your views on this, but if you want to perform with your car do it on a private track.

Dont make this personal, nowhere have i mentioned that i carry on like the lads in that video so please dont insinuate. All im doing is playing devils advocate to the mass hysteria in this thread to what is in reality low enough risk with little effect on the public.

Again, i see much worse from joe soaps on my commute to work everyday that is more of a danger in reality.

RoverJames

RoverJames wrote: »

..because most folk would agree they're dangerous perhaps

I genuinely don't see any real danger in this video, I will agree to a certain extent that there was some spectators in a what I would call a moderately risky area but that's their choice, they know the dangers.

The general public are not at risk.

cpoh1

cpoh1 wrote: »

...........All im doing is playing devils advocate to the mass hysteria in this thread to what is in reality low enough risk with little effect on the public..................

Where is the mass hysteria?

There are folk trying to defend drifting on public roads, try and argue that one in court

Mr. Presentable

cpoh1 wrote: »

Dont make this personal, nowhere have i mentioned that i carry on like the lads in that video so please dont insinuate. All im doing is playing devils advocate to the mass hysteria in this thread to what is in reality low enough risk with little effect on the public.

Again, i see much worse from joe soaps on my commute to work everyday that is more of a danger in reality.

Ah, no, I didn't mean you personally. Perhaps I ought to have said "If one wants to perform in their car one should..." etc

Mr. Presentable

Cassandra Refined Slot wrote: »

I genuinely don't see any real danger in this video, I will agree to a certain extent that there was some spectators in a what I would call a moderately risky area but that's their choice, they know the dangers.

The general public are not at risk.

Is it edited at all?

Wexfordian

Cassandra Refined Slot wrote: »

The roundabout is deserted, and if they do see a car they can straighten up, they are not even travelling any faster than you would be driving around the roundabout either so another car should not find itself involved unless the it drove out in front of them.

Its the Waterford bypass M9 interchange and they are across all lanes. I don't really care if its empty at that exact moment, its still not a suitable place to be acting the idiot in a car.

Paparazzo

challengemaster wrote: »

Give them somewhere legal to practice cheaply and most of them will, tbh.

I don't get this. If you can't afford to do something, you don't do it.

And you think someone else should organise places for drifting around the country? It's not going to happen! I want to fly planes, some government official isn't going to knock at my door and offer me government discounted flying lessons.
The excuse someone else should provide them a cheap facilities around the country is idiotic imho. They're big boys now, they can organise something themselves, because if they're waiting for someone else to do it it's not going to happen.

Henry Ford III

To argue "the road was empty" as a justification for drifting is not very reasonable is it?

Everybody knows it's illegal. If people want to try out the extreme handling, speed, or other abilities of their vehicles by all means do so, on a track.

TelePaul

Ridiculous behaviour on a public road, no two-ways about it. It may be lamentable that these drivers haven't the resources to pursue their interests on a private, safe road, but that gives nobody the right to drive recklessly on public roads. I have plenty of interests, does that mean in pursuing them I'm somehow immune to the law? of course not. These fools know it, and that's why, despite such stylised camera work, you'll never see a number-plate :rolleyes:

Henry Ford III

Shannon Airport isn't too busy these times. Perhaps we could try some top speed burn ups on runway 24?