The Bike Scheme thread

joeKel73

what_traffic wrote: »

I presume it will be the same as Dublin. Same sponsor.
http://www.dublinbikes.ie
First 30 minutes free?

Yeah that's probably likely, here's the Dublin prices;

joeKel73

Galway Advertiser - "Work suspended on ‘problematic’ rent-a-bike sites"

Such as waste of time and money - the sites were known before construction started.

Mrs OBumble

J o e wrote: »

Such as waste of time and money - the sites were known before construction started.

So why wasn't there any consultation?

Merchant's Rd has already lost a lot of car parking to bus tour bus stops, now they're taking even more away without so much as asking.

Inner city residents are reasonable people: we know we live in shared space and that parking outside our homes is generally not possible.

But we're not to be ignored, either.

galwaycyclist

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So why wasn't there any consultation?

Merchant's Rd has already lost a lot of car parking to bus tour bus stops, now they're taking even more away without so much as asking.

Inner city residents are reasonable people: we know we live in shared space and that parking outside our homes is generally not possible.

But we're not to be ignored, either.

They have ignored fundamental recommendations from the Jacobs consultancy report that essentially gave scheme the green light.

Why would the officials involved be any less dismissive of councillors or residents?

For what its worth I am not necessarily supporting either. I don't believe there should be any on-street parking either on Merchants Road or University Road. Using that space for the bike share stands is also questionable.

whineflu

galwaycyclist wrote: »

I don't believe there should be any on-street parking either on Merchants Road or University Road.

Removing on street car parking to a level below one-car-per-house will turn people against the scheme. Especially in neighbourhoods where residents are elderly and communities are established. Councillors listen to those people and they must have some clout considering the installation has been halted at some sites. These people need their cars for longer journeys but most likely walk to town so they are right to feel peeved.
The strategy of this scheme applied to Galway is not to replace cars. A big usage of bikes in Galway is to and from inner suburbs like Grattan Park, Whitestrand, Salthill, Wellpark, Bohermore, Shantalla. Most of these areas are unserved. The current sites assume people need to zoom around a compact city centre. That just creates traffic.
Personally I think the sites were an afterthought and other factors were considered first: "We've got x number of bikes and relocating them is a hassle so where will we put them to make that easy." Most of the prospective routes are easily walkable and its not like the footpaths are congested.

joeKel73

Here's the progress on University Rd (before the work was stoped);

Mrs OBumble

galwaycyclist wrote: »

I don't believe there should be any on-street parking either on Merchants Road or University Road. Using that space for the bike share stands is also questionable.

The people running businesses who need to get deliveries might disagree with you there. Medieval streets = no back entrances.

cocoman

snubbleste wrote: »

I did not realise that all those workspaces being created around town are the new docking stations..
There is one on University and another on Goal

Meanwhile motorists are whining that motorist parking is being replaced by bike parking. Fuming councillor alert -
http://connachttribune.ie/anger-over-bike-scheme-docking-station-177/

And he doesn't even drive !!!!!!!

what_traffic

also in the Sentinel today.
http://connachttribune.ie/objections-could-put-a-spoke-in-galway-bike-rental-scheme-401/

jkforde

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So why wasn't there any consultation?

ah now, you're expecting too much... don't you know how things pan out here..... yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a great idea.... plan? nah, nah, let's just bang on, lash it in.... oh, what's that? oh dear, hadn't thought of that... hmm, lick of paint, lick of paint, it'll be grand....... and on we stumble......

galwaycyclist

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The people running businesses who need to get deliveries might disagree with you there. Medieval streets = no back entrances.

Similar situation has already been handled on Shop Street for years. There is a time slot when deliveries can take place and at other times the space has other uses.

Exactly the same principle.

Mrs OBumble

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Similar situation has already been handled on Shop Street for years. There is a time slot when deliveries can take place and at other times the space has other uses.

Exactly the same principle.

Merchants Rd already has that: there are no-stopping-zones / clearways in place for rush hours, and parking spaces available at other times. That lets shops get deliveries, and residents park there briefly to drop off groceries etc.

What the bikes scheme is doing is making a portion of the clearways not clear, and removing some of the parking that's available in off-peak hours. Bad all round, with no benefit for residents (there are more of us than you may think) and questionable benefit for local businesses.

galwaycyclist

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Merchants Rd already has that: there are no-stopping-zones / clearways in place for rush hours, and parking spaces available at other times. That lets shops get deliveries, and residents park there briefly to drop off groceries etc.

What the bikes scheme is doing is making a portion of the clearways not clear, and removing some of the parking that's available in off-peak hours. Bad all round, with no benefit for residents (there are more of us than you may think) and questionable benefit for local businesses.

Yes and putting a bike scheme station on a one-way street will lead, as night follows day, to cyclists cycling the wrong way down the one-way street.

One way streets is one of the issues that was highlighted by the Jacobs report.

The solution to the problem is to provide for two-way cycling on Merchants road. The way to do this is to remove the on-street parking and provide contraflow cycle lanes.

There is already an enormous supply of off-road parking on Merchants Road and in the city centre generally.

topcat77

So there are 3 docking locations that are currently being opposed due to parking spaces being taken and no docking location in Salthill? Sounds like Galway council alright.

Mrs OBumble

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Yes and putting a bike scheme station on a one-way street will lead, as night follows day, to cyclists cycling the wrong way down the one-way street.

One way streets is one of the issues that was highlighted by the Jacobs report.

The solution to the problem is to provide for two-way cycling on Merchants road. The way to do this is to remove the on-street parking and provide contraflow cycle lanes.

There is already an enormous supply of off-road parking on Merchants Road and in the city centre generally.

But that proposal would not sit easily with allowing on-street parking at limited times to facilitate deliveries.

Also, if a person is too lazy to ride from the docking station up to Forthill St and down Dock Rd - which Google Maps says would add a whacking 230m to the journey - then I don't believe they will be cycling at all.

Off-road parking is no good for deliveries.

galwaycyclist

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

But that proposal would not sit easily with allowing on-street parking at limited times to facilitate deliveries.

Also, if a person is too lazy to ride from the docking station up to Forthill St and down Dock Rd - which Google Maps says would add a whacking 230m to the journey - then I don't believe they will be cycling at all.

Off-road parking is no good for deliveries.

I agree that off-road loading is difficult and I have agreed that some on-street loading might have to be facilitated at certain defined times.

I put a sample trip from Merchants Rd to the Raven Terrace Station into Google maps.

For me (not double checked) it comes out at 584m if you go straight back down Merchants Rd and cross at the House hotel. If you follow the one-way system it comes out as 910m or 326m extra. In percentage terms thats a penalty of 55% of needless travel and effort.

Why don't we wait and see whats going to happen?

irisheddie85

If the council implement 2 way cycling on merchants Road where does it go how far down? There are 2 one way roads leading into it so how do you get all the way out off the one way system without either changing the layout at the bottom of merchants Road or putting cyclists in a dangerous situation where they come down the road and try and go round a blind corner that buses and trucks already take the entire Road to get around.

Maybe a better solution would be put the cycle parking in a better location like just round the corner on the small avenue you can't drive through which has a raised area in the centre which could be quite suitableabs has access to merchants Road and dock Street

galwaycyclist

galwaycyclist wrote: »

I agree that off-road loading is difficult and I have agreed that some on-street loading might have to be facilitated at certain defined times.

I put a sample trip from Merchants Rd to the Raven Terrace Station into Google maps.

For me (not double checked) it comes out at 584m if you go straight back down Merchants Rd and cross at the House hotel. If you follow the one-way system it comes out as 910m or 326m extra. In percentage terms thats a penalty of 55% of needless travel and effort.

Why don't we wait and see whats going to happen?

There is also the issue of people trying to get to Merchants Rd. So for the fun I did the same exercise for someone coming from Prospect Hill to Merchants Rd.

If they get on at Prospect Hill and scoot back down hill to Eyre Square then turn left down by the Skeff and turn directly into Merchants Road then it comes out at 576m.

If they follow the one-way system around Forster St and Victoria Place/ Queen st it works out at 876m (if they turn off at little St Nicholas' Road at the pedestrian crossing). Thats a penalty of 300m or 52% of needless travel and effort.

If they keep going around the docks (always a lovely place for a cycle - not) and come back up Merchants Rd then the distance is 1373m. Thats a penalty of 797m or 138% of needless travel and effort.

irisheddie85

galwaycyclist wrote: »

There is also the issue of people trying to get to Merchants Rd. So for the fun I did the same exercise for someone coming from Prospect Hill to Merchants Rd.

If they get on at Prospect Hill and scoot back down hill to Eyre Square then turn left down by the Skeff and turn directly into Merchants Road then it comes out at 576m.

If they follow the one-way system around Forster St and Victoria Place/ Queen st it works out at 876m (if they turn off at little St Nicholas' Road at the pedestrian crossing). Thats a penalty of 300m or 52% of needless travel and effort.

If they keep going around the docks (always a lovely place for a cycle - not) and come back up Merchants Rd then the distance is 1373m. Thats a penalty of 797m or 138% of needless travel and effort.

Seems merchants road is a bad location so and shouldn't be used. Awkward to get to and from

Crumbs868

m.bbc.com/news/magazine-29601069

I wonder if galway ever did reach this utopia would we have people still taking photos and posting in a bad parking thread?

"Elsewhere, bikes are often parked randomly on the pavement, taking up pedestrian space and blocking entrances to shops and restaurants. For many non-cyclists, it's a constant source of irritation."

galwaycyclist

irisheddie85 wrote: »

Seems merchants road is a bad location so and shouldn't be used. Awkward to get to and from

Sure but heres the deal, unless you want people cycling up and down shop street, the one-way system makes much of the city centre a "bad location" for bike share.

The issue with people cycling from Prospect Hill to the station on Merchants Road would also apply if they were heading to the stations at Spanish Arch or Raven Terrace.

On the north side of the city centre, suppose someone wants to go to from the station outside Supermacs in Eyre square to the station at Mainguard st. Are they really going to go around by the Docks or around by the Cathedral?

Does anyone really think thats going to happen?

Iwannahurl

Crumbs868 wrote: »

m.bbc.com/news/magazine-29601069

I wonder if galway ever did reach this utopia would we have people still taking photos and posting in a bad parking thread?

"Elsewhere, bikes are often parked randomly on the pavement, taking up pedestrian space and blocking entrances to shops and restaurants. For many non-cyclists, it's a constant source of irritation."

From the report you linked:

While 95% of cyclists in the city are happy with conditions for cyclists overall, only 29% are satisfied with cycle-parking facilities - down from 40% in 1996.

According to Mikael Colville-Andersen, of the Copenhagenize Design Company, cycle parking is the "last great bastion" that cycling-friendly cities have yet to overcome.

"No city has cracked it," he says. But he adds: "It's a challenge that other cities should beg for."

Amsterdam was the worst example I came across. Bikes were 'parked' three or more deep beside every railing. I couldn't understand how this might be regarded as in any way practical or convenient. Then I started looking more closely, and realised that a large proportion were rusty and unused. My guess is that many are abandoned and just accumulate.

Just did a quick Gurgle. Some estimates suggest that in Amsterdam 15% of all bikes parked outside may be unused, with 60% of all unused bicycles parked in the city centre.

Amsterdam removed 55,000 'wrongly-parked' bikes in 2011

Dutch cities remove abandoned bicycles

In the grand scheme of things badly parked bikes are less of a problem than badly parked cars, or even well parked cars for that matter.

As it is in Galway, there aren't enough bike parking stands for the current number of cyclists. That needs to be remedied, because proper stands in proper places encourage bike use as well as responsible bike parking.

irisheddie85

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Sure but heres the deal, unless you want people cycling up and down shop street, the one-way system makes much of the city centre a "bad location" for bike share.

The issue with people cycling from Prospect Hill to the station on Merchants Road would also apply if they were heading to the stations at Spanish Arch or Raven Terrace.

On the north side of the city centre, suppose someone wants to go to from the station outside Supermacs in Eyre square to the station at Mainguard st. Are they really going to go around by the Docks or around by the Cathedral?

Does anyone really think thats going to happen?

To be honest i think the entire scheme is way to central. I live in knocknacarra and cycle into town regularly. I lock my bike either in Eyre Square or bottom of shop street and don't move it till I'm leaving town. I have easily walked between all the locations.

But it's a 5 minute walk from Supermacs to Mainguard street. If you include the length of time to get a bike out and return it at the bottom it would probably take longer than walking to use the bike scheme

Mrs OBumble

galwaycyclist wrote: »

There is also the issue of people trying to get to Merchants Rd. So for the fun I did the same exercise for someone coming from Prospect Hill to Merchants Rd.

If they get on at Prospect Hill and scoot back down hill to Eyre Square then turn left down by the Skeff and turn directly into Merchants Road then it comes out at 576m.

Ahh, who would anyone bother cycling from Prospect Hill to Merchants Rd?

By the time you've checked out the bike, put on your helment and your hi-vis and combed your hair at the end other end - you would practically have walked there.

Cyclists, quite simply, are not pedestrians. Around the city, they travel at speeds similar to other vehicles, and can do serious damage to pedestrians if they hit one. That means the rules and constraints that apply to other vehicles apply to them too. Including one-way streets, speed-limits, and turn indicators.

El_Dangeroso

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ahh, who would anyone bother cycling from Prospect Hill to Merchants Rd?

Who would bother cycling from any of the docking stations to another, they're all five mins walk away max!

galwaycyclist

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ahh, who would anyone bother cycling from Prospect Hill to Merchants Rd?

By the time you've checked out the bike, put on your helment and your hi-vis and combed your hair at the end other end - you would practically have walked there.

Cyclists, quite simply, are not pedestrians. Around the city, they travel at speeds similar to other vehicles, and can do serious damage to pedestrians if they hit one. That means the rules and constraints that apply to other vehicles apply to them too. Including one-way streets, speed-limits, and turn indicators.

It would be a mistake to see the people who use bikeshare schemes as "cyclists". They are first and formost public transport users and having paid for that transport they will favour getting to their destination by the quickest, most direct, means possible.

In 2004 the elected city council voted to make one-way streets in Galway two-way for cyclists - that vision has been part of successive city development plans. If you read the Jacobs report on bikeshare, two-way cycling on one-way streets is also part of the vision for the bikeshare schemes. Clearly, the staff available to the city executive for the last decade have lacked the necessary professional understanding to deliver on that vision. However that lack of competence in such matters does not change the existence of the requirement.

But anyway as I said why don't we we wait and see what happens?

galwaycyclist

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Who would bother cycling from any of the docking stations to another, they're all five mins walk away max!

Ok there needs to be certain density of docking stations so that if you arrive at your destination station on on a bikescheme bike and all the slots are full, you can divert to a station nearby to leave your bike back.

So the idea is not that you would pick up a bike at Eyre Square and cycle to Prospect hill. The idea is that if you arrive at Eyre Square coming from University Road and all the slots are full - you can divert to Prospect Hill to leave the bike back.

cgcsb

irisheddie85 wrote: »

To be honest i think the entire scheme is way to central. I live in knocknacarra and cycle into town regularly. I lock my bike either in Eyre Square or bottom of shop street and don't move it till I'm leaving town. I have easily walked between all the locations.

But it's a 5 minute walk from Supermacs to Mainguard street. If you include the length of time to get a bike out and return it at the bottom it would probably take longer than walking to use the bike scheme

Dublin's scheme and indeed most of these schemes started the same way, then they undergo a series of targeted expansion programmes.

cgcsb

galwaycyclist wrote: »

It would be a mistake to see the people who use bikeshare schemes as "cyclists". They are first and formost public transport users and having paid for that transport they will favour getting to their destination by the quickest, most direct, means possible.

In 2004 the elected city council voted to make one-way streets in Galway two-way for cyclists - that vision has been part of successive city development plans. If you read the Jacobs report on bikeshare, two-way cycling on one-way streets is also part of the vision for the bikeshare schemes. Clearly, the staff available to the city executive for the last decade have lacked the necessary professional understanding to deliver on that vision. However that lack of competence in such matters does not change the existence of the requirement.

But anyway as I said why don't we we wait and see what happens?

I'd imagine that the expanding remit of the NTA will remove those jobs from councils where there is insufficient competence to deliver results. The actual work will be moved to an office in Dublin, and there won't be any local input as a result of council dithering.

galwaycyclist

cgcsb wrote: »

I'd imagine that the expanding remit of the NTA will remove those jobs from councils where there is insufficient competence to deliver results. The actual work will be moved to an office in Dublin, and there won't be any local input as a result of council dithering.

Yes I could see merit in that. Certainly we need a system of direct oversight of council roads departments they have shown repeatedly that they cannot be trusted to deliver appropriate roads infrastructure.