Unusual 201 class photo.

BrianD

corktina wrote: »

i can't see this being the case. With its extreme length and width plus its escorting vehicles, and lack of manoeverability I can't see how it's impact would have been anything less than major.

But the evidence would seem to suggest otherwise. Longer than usual truck, with a van and some motorcycle cops. The max speed limit on any part of the route is 100kPH, in most places 80 or less. What the "real speed" is hard to know but probably lower.

The convoy gets priority at lights to pass through, minor disruption.

The odd junction where there is manouevering issues is localised. For example, the turn onto North Wall Quay is regularly used by BE coaches that are often slow to negotiate due to the narrow street and parked cars. I'd say that guy was through in a couple of minutes. Clearly this vehicle can negotiate tight spaces!

All in all it's stacking up that the traffic congestion caused was minimal.

dowlingm

Judgement Day wrote: »

Well IE don't seem to mind withdrawing and dumping similar locos in Inchicore so cost/waste doesn't appear to matter.

"Similar"?

L1011

dowlingm wrote: »

"Similar"?

non pp 201s

shamwari

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Put it to you like this; if it was so easy to do the repairs on site or change a bogie off the cuff or whatever then don't you think that they'd actually have done so instead of having to hire in a crane?

+1. The correct thing is to get the loco to Inchicore where the necessary kit is there to do the job peoperly. It could not be fixed in situ, and if it could, why on earth would IE have gone to the hassle and and effort of hiring cranes, low loaders etc. to get the thing trucked over.

Also the load was too high to go through the port tunnel, and as there is a HGV / weight restriction through the city centre (thanks to the DPT), it meant that the load had to go the circuitous route overground.

You know, I actually feel sorry for IE when, despite acting correctly in the circumstances obtaining, they are still subjected to the usual scathing, ill informed and ignorant ridicule here.

corktina

for my part, Im just wondering why they would do it this way and the only info I am getting is that IE did it this way because they know best!

Did a problem of this type never happen before because I can't recall them having to use road transport before or is it the case that they have scrapped the equipment formerley used and have to now resort to this procedure? If its just one axle, why couldnt they use a rail skate?

Tell me , I want to know! Don't just rely on IE doing the right thing blindly!

Judgement Day

Yeah, it's terrible the way people always attack a great organisation like CIE. I can't imagine why anybody would think that CIE/IE would do anything that smacked of incompetence.

I've seen wheelskates being used for coaches but never for locos, weight may be an issue.

dermo88

It depends on which, or how many axles were affected by the seizure. There are pathing issues involved, because the network is being used much more intensively compared to (say) the late 1990's. Bear in mind that using a wheelskate leads to one hell of a speed restriction, I believe it is around 25mph maximum. In such a scenario its going to take 6-7 hours to get from Belfast to Dublin, because of all the stopping involved, getting a clear "path", and with Commuter trains running at each end until 23:30 and resuming again at 05:30, its not as logistically simple as it looks.

Therefore, its not beyond the realms of possibility that shipping 233 by road is safer and cheaper than doing so by rail, taking all things into account. If Iarnrod Eireann were going to send it by rail, they would surely have done so.

Iarnrod Eireann are not perfect, but they are not the devil incarnate. Strange line coming from me over the years, but do be prepared to give the benefit of the doubt occasionally.

BrianD

Something tells me that they wouldn't have moved it by road unless they had to.

I don't thing it was a hugely expensive operation but it would have taken a chunk of time to project manage.

Cookie_Monster

dermo88 wrote: »

It depends on which, or how many axles were affected by the seizure. There are pathing issues involved, because the network is being used much more intensively compared to (say) the late 1990's. Bear in mind that using a wheelskate leads to one hell of a speed restriction, I believe it is around 25mph maximum. In such a scenario its going to take 6-7 hours to get from Belfast to Dublin, because of all the stopping involved, getting a clear "path", and with Commuter trains running at each end until 23:30 and resuming again at 05:30, its not as logistically simple as it looks.

Therefore, its not beyond the realms of possibility that shipping 233 by road is safer and cheaper than doing so by rail, taking all things into account. If Iarnrod Eireann were going to send it by rail, they would surely have done so.

Iarnrod Eireann are not perfect, but they are not the devil incarnate. Strange line coming from me over the years, but do be prepared to give the benefit of the doubt occasionally.

Belfast to Dublin?? It would be going from Connolly to Heuston via a track that's only used for stock movements anyway...

It was taken off the track in Connolly, it failed in Dublin

dermo88

This is out of character for me, normally I am pretty thorough reading these things.

Then I have two words to say to that:

Oh Christ......

This means I have to shut my gob for the rest of thread and stop behaving like a bloody know it all.

Which....is what a lot of people do here. I think we need to hear from the guys who have operational experience of such matters.

Victor

shamwari wrote: »

Also the load was too high to go through the port tunnel, and as there is a HGV / weight restriction through the city centre (thanks to the DPT), it meant that the load had to go the circuitous route overground.

The 5-axle limit isn't absolute. It only operates 7am-7pm and permits are available at other times.

However, shoving such a truck through the city centre can only really happen between midnight and 7am weekdays and needs to account for drunks and potential breakdowns.

Would the truck fit under bridges, in particular, the Loop Line?

shamwari

Victor wrote: »

The 5-axle limit isn't absolute. It only operates 7am-7pm and permits are available at other times.

However, shoving such a truck through the city centre can only really happen between midnight and 7am weekdays and needs to account for drunks and potential breakdowns.

Would the truck fit under bridges, in particular, the Loop Line?

Fair point. I reckon clearence under the loop line bridge both north and south quay are issues. As an example, a few years back,there was a Polish lad in a truck who got wedged under the bridge before the Custom Hse and snarled up traffic. When he was freed, he went over Matt Talbot bridge, turned right, and repeated the same feat under the same bridge outside Tara St.

Can you imagine what sort of hysteria would ensue if IE were guilty of smacking one of their own bridges with one of their trains travelling on a HGV..??

Niles

Victor wrote: »

Would the truck fit under bridges, in particular, the Loop Line?

When State Coach 351 was travelling to the Netherlands last year it went via the quays and under the Loop Line, pic here, it's hard to tell from this photo but there appears to be a smidgen of clearance between the roof of the coach and the bridge. I've never studied the height difference between the coach and a 201 but I suspect the 201 is somewhat taller.

I'm still surprised at the time they chose to do it though, when the ITG moved their locos out of Inchicore it was done in the middle of the night.

CaptainSkidmark

Niles wrote: »

When State Coach 351 was travelling to the Netherlands

why was it brought over here?

Niles

CaptainSkidmark wrote: »

why was it brought over here?

There was an exhibition of royal carriages from all over Europe held at the railway museum in Utrecht from April to September of last year.

Some info and photos here:

http://www.steamtrainsireland.com/photonews/100420/

http://www.steamtrainsireland.com/photonews/100406b/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kevin_r_boyd/sets/72157624553906821/with/4873917188/

flyingsnail

CaptainSkidmark wrote: »

why was it brought over here?

It was brought over for the “Royal Class, Majestic Journeys” exhibition at the Railway museum in Utrecht.

L1011

Very good museum ^ although they could do with providing some English language leaflets with translations of the info cards, albeit all the video installations etc are quad language and all the staff have fantastic English; neither of those would be expected for a foreign language in a museum here but there's usually decent translation books.

Its rail connected with a shuttle service to Utrecht Centraal too - its basically an unneeded former station. Would be equivalent to us having a museum in Broadstone.

CaptainSkidmark

Class! may give a trip there before christmas. Wonder is it close by Utrect Central

L1011

CaptainSkidmark wrote: »

Class! may give a trip there before christmas. Wonder is it close by Utrect Central

Walking distance:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?saddr=Stationshal&daddr=Spoorwegmuseum,+Maliebaanstation,+Utrecht,+Nederland&hl=en&ll=52.087128,5.124028&spn=0.009216,0.026994&sll=52.089277,5.111325&sspn=0.008939,0.026994&geocode=FQfTGgMdLvhNAA%3BFZDMGgMdOUtOACFHXp773LOlgCkH1G1MUm_GRzETR0osOZsXFg&vpsrc=6&dirflg=w&mra=mift&mrsp=0&sz=16&t=m&z=16

Utrecht's a lovely city, Dutch architecture etc without the constantly hustling and tourism mob of Amsterdam. Been there a few times, albeit mostly by car not rail...

edit: just noticed your in the Netherlands anyway so the touristy bit there doesn't really apply!

steamengine

233 back in action on 11.00 departure Enterprise, approaching Killester station earlier this morning. Good to see it back where it belongs !!!

BrianD

Two cranes, an enormous truck, a circuitous route, a few pages of discussions ob boards.ie and .... they couldn't power wash it??

CaptainSkidmark

MYOB wrote: »

Walking distance:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?saddr=Stationshal&daddr=Spoorwegmuseum,+Maliebaanstation,+Utrecht,+Nederland&hl=en&ll=52.087128,5.124028&spn=0.009216,0.026994&sll=52.089277,5.111325&sspn=0.008939,0.026994&geocode=FQfTGgMdLvhNAA%3BFZDMGgMdOUtOACFHXp773LOlgCkH1G1MUm_GRzETR0osOZsXFg&vpsrc=6&dirflg=w&mra=mift&mrsp=0&sz=16&t=m&z=16

Utrecht's a lovely city, Dutch architecture etc without the constantly hustling and tourism mob of Amsterdam. Been there a few times, albeit mostly by car not rail...

edit: just noticed your in the Netherlands anyway so the touristy bit there doesn't really apply!

cheers

land lover

where are all the 201 class loco's now. Are they all still running

Oscar Bravo

The ones that are NOT running are 201,202,203,204,205,210,211,212,213,214,216 and 225.

land lover

Feck. That doesn't leave many. Any idea what went wrong?

Eiretrains

land lover wrote: »

Feck. That doesn't leave many. Any idea what went wrong?

There's still a fair bunch operating daily on the Mk4, Enterprise and freight services. Most of the ones that are withdrawn are those still carrying the old IE orange livery, not sure whether that was the reason why those were exactly chosen. 225 is withdrawn following an accident in Mayo.

land lover

Didn't get the same going out of them as the 071 class

Captain Chaos

Eiretrains wrote: »

There's still a fair bunch operating daily on the Mk4, Enterprise and freight services. Most of the ones that are withdrawn are those still carrying the old IE orange livery, not sure whether that was the reason why those were exactly chosen. 225 is withdrawn following an accident in Mayo.

The reason why 201-205 and 210-214 are stopped is because they are not equipped for push pull operation or have their HEP equipment commissioned so they cannot work Mk4 or Enterprise sets. All they can do is act as rescue locos or freight only. There are no more Mk3s for them to haul around.

The 071s act as freight and rescue locos now and also for engineering works trains.