Beef AI/Bulls MEGATHREAD

Farrell

bogman_bass wrote: »

Looking forward to using AGZ?
OK. If you like hardship.......

I'm a farmer, we love hardship ......
Saler would be dam of choice

The man in red and black

Farrell wrote: »

I'm a farmer, we love hardship ......
Saler would be dam of choice

I have to say AGZ is a bull that intrigues me but I wouldn't want to use him myself at home. Is it the hips that are the killer for his calves? Just see his daughter calving difficulty is actually low enough, so guessing they have such big hips they'd fit anything out themselves?

TITANIUM.

The man in red and black wrote: »

I have to say AGZ is a bull that intrigues me but I wouldn't want to use him myself at home. Is it the hips that are the killer for his calves? Just see his daughter calving difficulty is actually low enough, so guessing they have such big hips they'd fit anything out themselves?

I use him on plain lm cows that would go back to the milkers. It amazing how if a lad calls round to the yard they'd pick um out as the best calves.

The man in red and black

TITANIUM. wrote: »

I use him on plain lm cows that would go back to the milkers. It amazing how if a lad calls round to the yard they'd pick um out as the best calves.

Just generally big and good shape all round so? You wouldn't say hips that unusually big to account for the calving difficulty?

TITANIUM.

The man in red and black wrote: »

Just generally big and good shape all round so? You wouldn't say hips that unusually big to account for the calving difficulty?

Ya the calves will come big alright. Big all round. I wouldn't say the hip's are abnormally large. Allot depends on the cow.

patsy_mccabe

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Ya the calves will come big alright. Big all round. I wouldn't say the hip's are abnormally large. Allot depends on the cow.

His (AGZ) calving figures are shocking though, 22%. Does his straws weigh more? :rolleyes:

bogman_bass

I know the lad who had the first calf in the country off him.80kg and dead

TITANIUM.

bogman_bass wrote: »

I know the lad who had the first calf in the country off him.80kg and dead

Ya and probably off a good well fed cow.
Ffs the bull is only a third of the equation,

patsy_mccabe

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Ya and probably off a good well fed cow.
Ffs the bull is only a third of the equation,

I used LGL last year on 5 cows and had to pull them all, and he's 10%. Why bring hardship on yourself. Trust me, you'll regret it some day.

Who2

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I used LGL last year on 5 cows and had to pull them all, and he's 10%. Why bring hardship on yourself. Trust me, you'll regret it some day.

I've a bull rated 10.6 and I rarely put a jack to his calves and I've even bulled heifers to him, I've also put bulls at 3% and had unmercifully lumps of things. As titanium says it's only a share of the bulls fault. Feeding has a lot to blame and lads trying to correct a bad cow with too big a bull.

charolais0153

Who2 wrote: »

I've a bull rated 10.6 and I rarely put a jack to his calves and I've even bulled heifers to him, I've also put bulls at 3% and had unmercifully lumps of things. As titanium says it's only a share of the bulls fault. Feeding has a lot to blame and lads trying to correct a bad cow with too big a bull.

You do your job and the cow will generally do hers

TITANIUM.

Finally a couple of lads talking sense.
I'm not having a go patsy I really enjoy your posts but you always seem to be 100% against any bull with a high calving difficulty or the man using him. Not being smart but are you the kind of lad who inseminates a cow and doesn't worry about her again till her time is up?

patsy_mccabe

TITANIUM. wrote: »

... Not being smart but are you the kind of lad who inseminates a cow and doesn't worry about her again till her time is up?

Ya, because I stay away from hard calving bulls.:D
Look I agree 100% with you on the feeding and the cow being just as important. Look at the dairy guys, years ago it was all about milk yield, but Teagasc have thought them to concentrate on profit instead. All about profit.
Why should it be any different with weanling producers. Just because you get more for a weanling doesn't mean you will make more profit. ICBF put the cost of AGZ calving for weanlings sold (terminal) at -73euro, FSZ they have at -4euro. It's a real cost from real losses and you cant ignore it.

welton john

Personally I'd have no prob using a harder calving 10 -15 % bull but only on the right cow. Plus I'm never more than 4 or 5 miles from home so I'm always around at calving. Now if I was working full time I wouldn't dream of using anything other than easy calving bulls, most part time beef lads take majority of wages from full time work so who wants to be up at all hours of the night pulling a calf and then try get him to drink and head off for a days work , f**k that! I know you can get bother from easy calvers too but percentages there for a reason

Lady Haywire

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Ya, because I stay away from hard calving bulls.:D
Look I agree 100% with you on the feeding and the cow being just as important. Look at the dairy guys, years ago it was all about milk yield, but Teagasc have thought them to concentrate on profit instead. All about profit.
Why should it be any different with weanling producers. Just because you get more for a weanling doesn't mean you will make more profit. ICBF put the cost of AGZ calving for weanlings sold (terminal) at -73euro, FSZ they have at -4euro. It's a real cost from real losses and you cant ignore it.

Do you mean losses from calves born dead?

I get where you're coming from patsy, a dead calf has nothing to give you but bills, but cows managed and checked correctly has a major part to play. There are a lot of idiots out there who wouldn't even look at a bulls calving difficulty before putting him on cows, they might have seen great calves at a neighbours place etc etc. I'd be part of the don't mind CD brigade, but I amn't afraid to call a vet when I know I'm banjaxed. Most of the calves we've lost have been to my own error, not the bulls.

TITANIUM.

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Ya, because I stay away from hard calving bulls.:D
Look I agree 100% with you on the feeding and the cow being just as important. Look at the dairy guys, years ago it was all about milk yield, but Teagasc have thought them to concentrate on profit instead. All about profit.
Why should it be any different with weanling producers. Just because you get more for a weanling doesn't mean you will make more profit. ICBF put the cost of AGZ calving for weanlings sold (terminal) at -73euro, FSZ they have at -4euro. It's a real cost from real losses and you cant ignore it.

I don't ignore the problem Patsy,
I manage it. And there's a plie of issues to be factored into managing cows correctly. And yes I've learned that the hard way.
I don't mind the extra work, the same way I don't mind the extra few bob come mart day.
My AI man often tells me I'm taking a chance on a bull. My response is I take the chance out of the equation by managing the cow correctly. I heard to many horror stories from lad's that don't put in the thought or work.
Go hard or go home Patsy😆

patsy_mccabe

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Do you mean losses from calves born dead? ....

Not just dead calves but maybe downer cows, or even dead ones. Say a cow has a hard calving but all is ok, she might slip back a week in calving. That's 7 days x 1.5kgs x €2.5 = €26 of a loss straight off.

charolais0153

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Not just dead calves but maybe downer cows, or even dead ones. Say a cow has a hard calving but all is ok, she might slip back a week in calving. That's 7 days x 1.5kgs x €2.5 = €26 of a loss straight off.

Sell the calf just one week later

Sheep breeder

Have to agree with titanium, the most important thing is managing the Cow six weeks prior to calving is critical and this is where hard calving occur and the calf grows the most in this period and having a fit Cow is half the battle.
Instead of the jack Cow management is the key to a good calf, why have a Cow with a handy when she can rear a bit of quality standing beside her and then in the ring where the money is made,

tanko

Management of the cow/heifer before calving is important but you don't need to use hard calved bulls to have a bit of quality standing in the ring.
Plenty of calves of easy calved bulls like HGR, FL22, HCA, PAM, OZS and GZP here went on to become U= and U+ cattle at slaughter off cows that aren't anything special.

charolais0153

tanko wrote: »

Management of the cow/heifer before calving is important but you don't need to use hard calved bulls to have a bit of quality standing in the ring.
Plenty of calves of easy calved bulls like HGR, FL22, HCA, PAM, OZS and GZP here went on to become U= and U+ cattle at slaughter off cows that aren't anything special.

+1 we rarely kill cattle but have gotten u+ and e's from s750,LSP,hzj. S750 was an e and is suitable for heifers.

Farrell

charolais0153 wrote: »

+1 we rarely kill cattle but have gotten u+ and e's from s750,LSP,hzj. S750 was an e and is suitable for heifers.

They're 10 & 12%, generally try not hit a heifer with more than 7%
S750 must of been some bull, his offspring get mentioned with show prizes
Can he be got anymore?

charolais0153

Farrell wrote: »

They're 10 & 12%, generally try not hit a heifer with more than 7%
S750 must of been some bull, his offspring get mentioned with show prizes
Can he be got anymore?

Only s750 was suitable for heifers but the other two were hardly too hard calving. Had one great calf off him but had bad legs so had to be killed and had twins the following year and the bull was infertile but made a great teaser ,the other calf was a grand weanling heifer though.s750 isn't around anymore I don't think

furandfeather

Looking for recommendations for easy calving charolais for a pb heifer.
I'd have indurain, excellent and cf51 in the flask but I've no experience with any off those bulls. Doesn't have to be them bulls if ye have any other suggestions

charolais0153

furandfeather wrote: »

Looking for recommendations for easy calving charolais for a pb heifer.
I'd have indurain, excellent and cf51 in the flask but I've no experience with any off those bulls. Doesn't have to be them bulls if ye have any other suggestions

We had a lovely CH heifer off cf51 of a pb springer(she was very strong when she calved her). She turned out to be a lovely cow
Pte always sell well and are easy calved.
Lzf is easy calved.
Maybe fiston (I've no experience but I heard he's easy
Ckh the CH bull dovea have(again not used him but he's easy enough. Make sure what ever you use he has stars
Pic of cf51 cow

Genghis Cant

furandfeather wrote: »

Looking for recommendations for easy calving charolais for a pb heifer.
I'd have indurain, excellent and cf51 in the flask but I've no experience with any off those bulls. Doesn't have to be them bulls if ye have any other suggestions

I've used the three of these bulls you've mentioned on PB CH heifers over the years.
None of them are brutes. I think 51 could be the easiest, from my experience. I don't think Indurian was widely used on heifers but maybe a big scopey heifer would be grand. I always liked Excellent though his offspring could be wildish and plain in the head.
So, I'd go with 51 and keep the other straws for her next year. IDU straws can't be handy got nowadays, I'd like to know how a cow is breeding before I'd chance one on her.

Sheep breeder

Most important thing is to try improve the heifers faults when bulling her, no point bulling her for the sake of getting a calf.
Normally we bull to correct say a poor head or a high tail that her offspring is improving her line.

patsy_mccabe

Sheep breeder wrote: »

Most important thing is to try improve the heifers faults when bulling her, no point bulling her for the sake of getting a calf.
Normally we bull to correct say a poor head or a high tail that her offspring is improving her line.

That's very hard do though unless you see a lot of the offspring from the bull. That's the advantage of doing AI on your own commercial cows, you can try a few straws first on them. That's if they're cheap straws.;)
The ICBF figures are no help to you here.

furandfeather

Thanks for the replies. I appreciate fixing faults and all but I'm looking for easy calving above all for the first time. She ll be calving hopefully at or around 26 months. She's by major, she has plenty of muscle for a heifer, don't think she's going to be seriously big.
If it was up to me she wouldn't be getting a charolais the first time, but I have her in co with the oul lad and I have to let him win the odd battle!

Lady Haywire

Dunno if he's still available but we used to put OSI on every heifer for many years, until we switched over to mainly limmys anyway. Never had any trouble.