Beef AI/Bulls MEGATHREAD

tanko

I've one here to calve in April to Highfield Odran, small butty yoke i never should have kept. She stopped growing a long time ago but has a big belly now, beginning to wonder is there twins in her.
APZ has a daughter calving difficulty figure of 15.6% which is incredibly high, his daughters must be giving serious bother at calving.
Has your heifer got a narrow end?

patsy_mccabe

Ya small thick heifer that looks like she's carrying twins too. Hip and pin bones look way too tight. She could be my first ever cesarian.

tanko

What is she in calf to?

Genghis Cant

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Mods
Is the attachment icon gone off the legacy touch site?

It's here on mine right now. I'll ask the other Mods who are more tech savvy than I.

patsy_mccabe

tanko wrote: »

What is she in calf to?

ZAG - at least he's proven for calving now.

limo_100

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

ZAG - at least he's proven for calving now.

I wouldn't just yet when is she due? I was like you last week I had a si x fr second calver in calf to ZCH after hearing all about I was panicing a bit anyway she carried on until sat with a gestation of 306 days and I got him out with a slight pull. Smashing bull calf with a full red body and a white stripe on his snout would have made a great heifer. I used him three times and I got all bulls bit disappointed

greysides

Genghis Cant wrote: »

It's here on mine right now. I'll ask the other Mods who are more tech savvy than I.

Present for me.

patsy_mccabe

limo_100 wrote: »

I wouldn't just yet when is she due? I was like you last week I had a si x fr second calver in calf to ZCH after hearing all about I was panicing a bit anyway she carried on until sat with a gestation of 306 days and I got him out with a slight pull. Smashing bull calf with a full red body and a white stripe on his snout would have made a great heifer. I used him three times and I got all bulls bit disappointed

She's due the middle of April. She'll be switched to hay before then, I think.

furandfeather

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Anyone calf down APZ (Curaheen Apostle ) heifers yet. I've one here and I'm starting to think she might be a problem.

Ya I've 2 calved of him. One was sound and the other was tight enough.

TPF2012

patsy_mccabe wrote:

Anyone calf down APZ (Curaheen Apostle ) heifers yet. I've one here and I'm starting to think she might be a problem.

I also have a thick butty Apz heifer in calf to Tomchoice Imperial, I'll be interested to hear how you get on, she not due to Autumn though. AI man had no easy aa when he landed, mostly aa used in heifers here, slightly concerned as I see he is not proven easy calving yet.

limo_100

TPF2012 wrote: »

I also have a thick butty Apz heifer in calf to Tomchoice Imperial, I'll be interested to hear how you get on, she not due to Autumn though. AI man had no easy aa when he landed, mostly aa used in heifers here, slightly concerned as I see he is not proven easy calving yet.

I say you will be fine that bull will be much the same as a black and you will have a more valuable calf. personally I wouldn't use a black if there not fit for an easy limo there not worth bulling.

patsy_mccabe

limo_100 wrote: »

I say you will be fine that bull will be much the same as a black and you will have a more valuable calf. personally I wouldn't use a black if there not fit for an easy limo there not worth bulling.

True but if you bull them at a young age they don't always grow, so an AA might be a safer bet. I've always used the easiest calving Lim I could get here.

TITANIUM.

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

True but if you bull them at a young age they don't always grow, so an AA might be a safer bet. I've always used the easiest calving Lim I could get here.

I agree with limo 100 here. If a heifer can't calve down a handy lm at 2 years old then something has to change. My auld fella used always opt for aa on heifers and we got some nice ones but all n all I think there a waste of time. If theres suckler heifers out there that can't calve a ZAG at 2years old then Id like to see them, actually given further thought i wouldn't like to see them.

If you calve down your heifers at 2years like I do here you have to treat them differently. Mineral supplementation both pre and post calving dosing more regularly and an extra pick of ration. They have to be watched closer for fear of going bare, particularly milky heifers. If there not looked after then they'll more than likely slip going back incalf and you'll end up with a situation where you might as well have calved them down at 30 odd months.

Future Farmer

Hi Folks,

See NCBC getting a bit of a whipping on their Facebook page over Man O Man being double muscled. I am not overly familiar with Angus Pedigree Breeding.

Is him being double muscled that much of an issue? Because you'd/I'd imagine if reasonable on gestation length and calving ease it is something dairy men could love, am I way out field on this or not?

croot

TITANIUM. wrote: »

I agree with limo 100 here. If a heifer can't calve down a handy lm at 2 years old then something has to change. My auld fella used always opt for aa on heifers and we got some nice ones but all n all I think there a waste of time.

I don't get hung up on breed because good cattle sell. I had a 8 heifers calve last year and out of a mix of breeds and my two best selling calves of the 8 were AA out of ZLL. One made €960 and the other €915 at 10 months. Both heifers

TITANIUM.

croot wrote: »

I don't get hung up on breed because good cattle sell. I had a 8 heifers calve last year and out of a mix of breeds and my two best selling calves of the 8 were AA out of ZLL. One made €960 and the other €915 at 10 months. Both heifers

Your right good cattle do sell. That's why I do get hung up on breed because quite simply different breeds sell better.

Those Angus heifers did well to make that price. Can you remember there weights?
I'm guessing with the sires rep index at 196 these were 5star heifers and were bought by lad's for breeding to comply with the BDGP is is properly skewing the figures.

croot

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Your right good cattle do sell. That's why I do get hung up on breed because quite simply different breeds sell better.

Those Angus heifers did well to make that price. Can you remember there weights?
I'm guessing with the sires rep index at 196 these were 5star heifers and were bought by lad's for breeding to comply with the BDGP is is properly skewing the figures.

Ya I know the high stars made a difference but AA do sell well in the north west. I posted pics of them as calves.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=97532720&postcount=699

First pic was the one that went 915 and she was 300kg.

Third pic was 350kg and made 960.

I've kept the second heifer and she is in calf to Ulsan due at 24mths.

Lady Haywire

TITANIUM. wrote: »

I agree with limo 100 here. If a heifer can't calve down a handy lm at 2 years old then something has to change. My auld fella used always opt for aa on heifers and we got some nice ones but all n all I think there a waste of time. If theres suckler heifers out there that can't calve a ZAG at 2years old then Id like to see them, actually given further thought i wouldn't like to see them.

If you calve down your heifers at 2years like I do here you have to treat them differently. Mineral supplementation both pre and post calving dosing more regularly and an extra pick of ration. They have to be watched closer for fear of going bare, particularly milky heifers. If there not looked after then they'll more than likely slip going back incalf and you'll end up with a situation where you might as well have calved them down at 30 odd months.

Yep, agree 100% with this. We've four heifers in one split pen (21,23,23 & 25 months) and you wouldn't believe the amount of stuff they hoover up, all getting a decent shake of minerals each day and 1kg of nuts each. Be interesting to see the saler calf off the single ch heifer we have, other three are eby & thz limousin. I find that if you calve anything down at 29/30 months they are very large framed and I've yet to see heifers calved down earlier not catch up fairly well once they're treated and fed righth after calving so they don't go backwards.

patsy_mccabe

Talking to an older farmer yesterday and he had great praise for EBY. Very easy calving and all that.

larthehar

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Talking to an older farmer yesterday and he had great praise for EBY. Very easy calving and all that.

Any shape to them? Looking at him as an option for bucket reared LM/FR heifers to calve at 30mths..

White Clover

larthehar wrote: »

Any shape to them? Looking at him as an option for bucket reared LM/FR heifers to calve at 30mths..

Don't know if he can still be got, but if you could get some pti straws from bova for those heifers you would be delighted with the stock after him. Left Smashing mostly u grade stock here in years gone by off of very plain lmxho heifers.

TITANIUM.

croot wrote: »

Ya I know the high stars made a difference but AA do sell well in the north west. I posted pics of them as calves.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=97532720&postcount=699

First pic was the one that went 915 and she was 300kg.

Third pic was 350kg and made 960.

I've kept the second heifer and she is in calf to Ulsan due at 24mths.

There very nice looking heifer calves croot, how do the AA bulls go for you?

patsy_mccabe

larthehar wrote: »

Any shape to them? Looking at him as an option for bucket reared LM/FR heifers to calve at 30mths..

Ya he said they shape up nicely.

Irish Beef

The bull KZM was mentioned on this thread a bit earlier, I was thinking of putting him on one of the cows, she's a big plain Simmental. Just want to be sure he's not a difficult calfer, Don't need that kind of trouble. don't AI too much here only if one comes bulling will I use AI and for heifers. What's people opinion of him regarding calving difficult and what kind of weanlings is he getting. Any other opinions welcome.

RD10

White Clover wrote: »

Don't know if he can still be got, but if you could get some pti straws from bova for those heifers you would be delighted with the stock after him. Left Smashing mostly u grade stock here in years gone by off of very plain lmxho heifers.

Have a PTI cow here. nice shape to her. lots of milk, very easily calved herself and every year she fires out a small handy calf no matter what she's in calf to.

GiantPencil

Future Farmer wrote: »

Hi Folks,

See NCBC getting a bit of a whipping on their Facebook page over Man O Man being double muscled. I am not overly familiar with Angus Pedigree Breeding.

Is him being double muscled that much of an issue? Because you'd/I'd imagine if reasonable on gestation length and calving ease it is something dairy men could love, am I way out field on this or not?

Just saw a Twitter poll they've put up looking for opinions, you can see what I think of it!

Bellview

Future Farmer wrote:

See NCBC getting a bit of a whipping on their Facebook page over Man O Man being double muscled. I am not overly familiar with Angus Pedigree Breeding.

Future Farmer wrote:

Is him being double muscled that much of an issue? Because you'd/I'd imagine if reasonable on gestation length and calving ease it is something dairy men could love, am I way out field on this or not?

The reason why ped folks will kick on myostatin or double muscle is that it's a defect in the breed.
One problem double muscle could cause is hard calving as we all know that if you cross this lad with a cow with let's say BB then you could be looking at trouble.
For dairy farmers there may also be calving diff as double muscle calves are heavier than those without.
If this bull was in the us he would be de registered while in UK there is more focus on myostatin although the society in UK has not made a decision on de registration yet..
The noise I'm hearing from a number of breeders is that ncbc have promoted this defect as a positive and some air technicians have also recommended using him in pedigree herds
Everyone is entitled to make their decisions but once their is full transparency on the defect and recommend to not use in pedigrees would remove lot of noise.
The guy in Facebook didn't hold back whether he is right or wrong

croot

TITANIUM. wrote: »

There very nice looking heifer calves croot, how do the AA bulls go for you?

Depends on quality but usually they sell well round here. Much better than a saler or a poor lim.
AA weanling bullock below made 870 @ 295 kgs which is 2.95 per kg.

All I'm saying is that there is a market for AA and I for one have no problem using the odd AA.

larthehar

RD10 wrote: »

Have a PTI cow here. nice shape to her. lots of milk, very easily calved herself and every year she fires out a small handy calf no matter what she's in calf to.

Sounds good, i have a few so will try a few diff options..
Did you ever use ZAG?

RD10

larthehar wrote: »

Sounds good, i have a few so will try a few diff options..
Did you ever use ZAG?

used zag this and last year on heifers. no problems with any of them. calved away themselves.