Beef AI/Bulls MEGATHREAD

patsy_mccabe · 22-02-2017 9:26pm

tanko wrote: »

.... Then again ICBF figures are far from perfect, HCA is a good example, cattle of him have decent size and plenty of muscle yet he's in the bottom 1% of the Limousin breed for both which is rubbish. He was a super bull to breed U+ cattle that killed out at heavy weights.

Why is that? I've never used HCA, but anyone on here that used him had nothing but good things to say about him.

tanko · 22-02-2017 9:41pm

I don't know, it's a mystery. I can't imagine why his cattle killing out so well isn't reflected in his figures. The only fault i'd have with him is that the docility of some of his calves could be poor.

patsy_mccabe · 22-02-2017 9:48pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Derryolam Impeccable-
Fantastic looking animal alright. Serious front shoulders on him. I'll eat my cap if he stays below 10% for calving difficulty.:D

I see he's only 7.2% calving at 94% reliability. Where's my cap.:cool:
Anybody try him?

Farrell · 22-02-2017 11:31pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I see he's only 7.2% calving at 94% reliability. Where's my cap.:cool:
Anybody try him?

Think there's comments on here with disappointment & calves were plain.
He didn't last long

Farrell · 22-02-2017 11:34pm

tanko wrote: »

Not really, you're right to look at CD and reliability first, that's the most important thing but i always have a look at the muscle and skeletal figures if you want to try and correct/balance faults in the cow.
eg FZF has a skeletal figure of 126, he puts a lot of size and frame into cattle, ONI is 134, he breeds big cattle too.
Used KJB a fair bit here, his skeletal figure is 111, cattle off him can be a bit small imo. ZAG is 107.
Store bullocks 16 months old i sold last year off ONI made €100-€150 more than off KJB because they were bigger and longer.
Then again ICBF figures are far from perfect, HCA is a good example, cattle of him have decent size and plenty of muscle yet he's in the bottom 1% of the Limousin breed for both which is rubbish. He was a super bull to breed U+ cattle that killed out at heavy weights.

I use to think linear score was from the society grading the bull @ 250-350 days.
I was a fan of AAI, on paper he looked good & review from sale on Charolais.ie, told by PB breeder that calves are small

Never wrestle with pigs · 24-02-2017 12:41am

What dovea CH or BB bull would you recommend using on a good sim cow? Just trying a few for the crack. I am thinking of trying CKH and VDV. Anyone have any experience with these bulls?

Lady Haywire · 24-02-2017 12:54am

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

What dovea CH or BB bull would you recommend using on a good sim cow? Just trying a few for the crack. I am thinking of trying CKH and VDV. Anyone have any experience with these bulls?

Crossmolina Jupiter seems a good bull, only had the one but seen a couple of nice calves on FB. Always had a grá for CSQ myself but couldn't get straws last year so had to change. FGG is ok, used him twice, got nice twins and a growthy bull, wouldn't win any prizes for fancy arses but sold very well as they had confirmation to them.
On the blues, had a VDV heifer off a SI/LM born the end of April last year, she's not overly muscly but nice and growthy, sold her in the yard the other day for €950, she's about 320/330kg (ish). Same cow had a bull off FGG the year before but came out huge. RFC gave a nice blue heifer too, but stayed a bit small in herself.
Have one cow due now to CKH so I'll let you know what she pops out, our best breeding cow so hoping for a heifer.

charolais0153 · 24-02-2017 2:05am

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

What dovea CH or BB bull would you recommend using on a good sim cow? Just trying a few for the crack. I am thinking of trying CKH and VDV. Anyone have any experience with these bulls?

Used vdv on a big plain oim cow. Alright calf I suppose considering, are you concerned about calving difficulty. 7otherwise I'd go with a more muscly charolais cos the blue wouldn't cross well with simmentsl IMO. Ai man has lots of experience and generally knows what'd suit a cow. Saying that I'd try Jupiter or clenagh Jasper

charolais0153 · 24-02-2017 2:08am

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Crossmolina Jupiter seems a good bull, only had the one but seen a couple of nice calves on FB. Always had a grá for CSQ myself but couldn't get straws last year so had to change. FGG is ok, used him twice, got nice twins and a growthy bull, wouldn't win any prizes for fancy arses but sold very well as they had confirmation to them.
On the blues, had a VDV heifer off a SI/LM born the end of April last year, she's not overly muscly but nice and growthy, sold her in the yard the other day for €950, she's about 320/330kg (ish). Same cow had a bull off FGG the year before but came out huge. RFC gave a nice blue heifer too, but stayed a bit small in herself.
Have one cow due now to CKH so I'll let you know what she pops out, our best breeding cow so hoping for a heifer.

I've only used CSq 3 times , doesn't seem to be too muscly IMO yet, wouldn't be my first choice cos of the big calf's at birth aswell

mikeoh · 24-02-2017 9:48am

Have some great CKH calves off Angus cows ...all calved by themselves but he dead now so straws are limited

Never wrestle with pigs · 24-02-2017 12:12pm

charolais0153 wrote: »

Used vdv on a big plain oim cow. Alright calf I suppose considering, are you concerned about calving difficulty. 7otherwise I'd go with a more muscly charolais cos the blue wouldn't cross well with simmentsl IMO. Ai man has lots of experience and generally knows what'd suit a cow. Saying that I'd try Jupiter or clenagh Jasper

Not overly concerned about calving difficulty but I'm not going to use a lad that's 18% iykwim. I'd prefer to use a nice ch that would cross well with sim to bring a bit of style. Only trying a few to have something different coming along.

mikeoh · 24-02-2017 1:26pm

Clenagh jasper is what Dovea are saying to use instead of hutch

What about SFL the BB in Bova topping the beef replacement index ...easy calving and very beefy.......or is he better on paper than in reality

Track9 · 24-02-2017 1:41pm

Would like your advice on Suckler Dams ( im just a weekender helping out ) Thinking of using a few MRI as Suckler Dams to improve our Cows & Milk .Downline cross with Sim Stock Bull.
MRI Dams In calf to Limo & B Blue Bulls .Other option wud be Limo Cross Cows .
Any one with experienxce of MRI as suclker or are they just Red & White Friesians who melt away in first overnight out in the rain .
T9

RD10 · 24-02-2017 1:46pm

zag calf at 6weeks from a first calver

Who2 · 24-02-2017 10:04pm

Mri are just a poor friesain. if you had limo heifers off them they should be ok for replacements but i tried a few and i thought they were a poor animal in fairness.

to the op.
Dont put blues on sims, its too hit and miss. A decent limo or ch are all id put on a si.

Never wrestle with pigs · 25-02-2017 12:17am

How is fzd numbers so bad?

tanko · 25-02-2017 12:34am

His calving difficulty is 14.70%, eurostars are obsessed with easy calving.

larthehar · 25-02-2017 1:23am

RD10 wrote: »

zag calf at 6weeks from a first calver

Serious shape, thanks rd..

Track9 · 25-02-2017 2:44am

Who2 wrote: »

Mri are just a poor friesain. if you had limo heifers off them they should be ok for replacements but i tried a few and i thought they were a poor animal in fairness.

to the op.
Dont put blues on sims, its too hit and miss. A decent limo or ch are all id put on a si.

===================

Thanks for your help Who ,theres nothing to beat experience . Currently doing as you mentioned ( Limo & Ch ) with a few Saler AI coming soon on our Simy x cows.Will have to prob say no to the MRI cows & buy Limo X Cow /heifers .Like many more suckler people ,am trying diff crosses as think we are not being paid enough when weanlings sold at 9- 12 months. If any one has hit on a good cross would be great to hear back .
T9

adne · 25-02-2017 9:29am

Track9 wrote: »

===================

Thanks for your help Who ,theres nothing to beat experience . Currently doing as you mentioned ( Limo & Ch ) with a few Saler AI coming soon on our Simy x cows.Will have to prob say no to the MRI cows & buy Limo X Cow /heifers .Like many more suckler people ,am trying diff crosses as think we are not being paid enough when weanlings sold at 9- 12 months. If any one has hit on a good cross would be great to hear back .
T9

Best consistent sellers are golden chs. Ch bull x deep red cow (shorthornx, lmx, salerx)

GiantPencil · 25-02-2017 4:30pm

adne wrote: »

Track9 wrote: »

===================

Thanks for your help Who ,theres nothing to beat experience . Currently doing as you mentioned ( Limo & Ch ) with a few Saler AI coming soon on our Simy x cows.Will have to prob say no to the MRI cows & buy Limo X Cow /heifers .Like many more suckler people ,am trying diff crosses as think we are not being paid enough when weanlings sold at 9- 12 months. If any one has hit on a good cross would be great to hear back .
T9

Best consistent sellers are golden chs. Ch bull x deep red cow (shorthornx, lmx, salerx)

Strong terminal Ch bull to Saler cows is what I do, they'd calve anything!

patsy_mccabe · 25-02-2017 5:18pm

Has anybody used GLORIEUX (XGL) in NCBC? His latest proof looks good and his mother is a proven French cow on milk and maternal traits.

https://webapp.icbf.com/bull-search/view/1021116937

adne · 25-02-2017 6:22pm

adne wrote: »

Great calf. Much hassle calving?
Ive a heifer with 295 days to him. Starting to worry

My okh calf landed. 298 days. Good big calf. Fair pull. Will use again but not on a heifer

Bigbird1 · 25-02-2017 7:33pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Has anybody used GLORIEUX (XGL) in NCBC? His latest proof looks good and his mother is a proven French cow on milk and maternal traits.

https://webapp.icbf.com/bull-search/view/1021116937

I have a good set of twins off him. Bull and a heifer.

Good blue cow due to him in a few weeks

Pidae.m · 25-02-2017 8:58pm

I've a pb heifer here off him and I'd reckon she wouldn't rear a kitten. Leggy orangy thing. I only bought her for grass. I've a new stock bull for the heifers off him. Narrow enough in the shoulder

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Has anybody used GLORIEUX (XGL) in NCBC? His latest proof looks good and his mother is a proven French cow on milk and maternal traits.

https://webapp.icbf.com/bull-search/view/1021116937

Pidae.m · 25-02-2017 9:01pm

The lad said he was an outstanding calf but thought he was a bit nervous for roscrea. To be fair he has settled in well

Pidae.m wrote: »

I've a pb heifer here off him and I'd reckon she wouldn't rear a kitten. Leggy orangy thing. I only bought her for grass. I've a new stock bull for the heifers off him. Narrow enough in the shoulder

Pidae.m · 25-02-2017 9:02pm

Here you go

Pidae.m wrote: »

The lad said he was an outstanding calf but thought he was a bit nervous for roscrea. To be fair he has settled in well

FeelTheBern · 25-02-2017 9:07pm

"Strong terminal Ch bull to Saler cows is what I do, they'd calve anything![/quote]"

If your intention is only to use easy calving Lm bulls "going forward" as they say, would it be foolish to use Saler AI on heifers in hope of breeding replacements. Would I just have plain calves off them unless I had real terminal bull on them?

See old thread about using Aubrac Ai to get replacements - anyone any feedback?

Who2 · 25-02-2017 9:22pm

FeelTheBern wrote: »

"Strong terminal Ch bull to Saler cows is what I do, they'd calve anything!

"

If your intention is only to use easy calving Lm bulls "going forward" as they say, would it be foolish to use Saler AI on heifers in hope of breeding replacements. Would I just have plain calves off them unless I had real terminal bull on them?

See old thread about using Aubrac Ai to get replacements - anyone any feedback?[/QUOTE]
Is it really going to pay to rear your own replacements? How many are you going to need each year? Theres a lot of people myself in cluded that will breed a certain number of replacements and buy in a few of what id class as fancy sorts. to be honest its very rare the bought in heifers give me any hassle and all seem to work out well enough for milk. Theres a few i know who run a terminal bull and clear out all their weanlings at the end of the year. they get top prices and no headaches of wintering a few heifers on their own.

FeelTheBern · 25-02-2017 9:59pm

Buying in replacements makes sense in a lot of ways alright. Think you'd want to be vaccinating for everything though if you do it all the time - which is a cost in itself. Also nice to see how your own stock breed.

Increasing numbers at moment so holding good few heifers of my own - don't AI cows so that's why thinking about what Ai to put on my own heifers for best replacement option. My own stock have lot of LM in them and would be running Lm bull - so thinking of using different breeding for replacements. Had some lovely SM cows here - someone had recommended Curaheen Earp few weeks ago but see his CD up a good bit on latest proof with increased calving sample size.

Beef AI/Bulls MEGATHREAD

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