Beef AI/Bulls MEGATHREAD

FeelTheBern

Thinking of switching stock bull for sucklers from Limousin to Charolais as started finishing more of my own cattle. Will keep Limousin for heifers. Was planing on keeping an eye out for Charolais bull being sold after end of season so could see calves off him and proven calving difficulty. Don't know anything about Ch breeding - any suggestions for known sires for relatively easy calving and decent terminal then?

charolais0153

FeelTheBern wrote: »

Thinking of switching stock bull for sucklers from Limousin to Charolais as started finishing more of my own cattle. Will keep Limousin for heifers. Was planing on keeping an eye out for Charolais bull being sold after end of season so could see calves off him and proven calving difficulty. Don't know anything about Ch breeding - any suggestions for known sires for relatively easy calving and decent terminal then?

Pirate

Mac Taylor

Seaba wrote: »

That's only my tuppence worth from purely looking at the figures. Could be arseways wrong!
There is a limousin bull called Pacha 08 (PCH). Brilliant replacement figures. Gave him to a cow here years ago. She had a big lanky heifer calf - looked at linear score for him on ICBF - well below average for muscle and well above for height. Always check that nowadays before I decide on a bull.

PCH was being pushed by Dovea a few years back as a great maternal sire, but his offspring were shocking. The size of giraffes no muscle to talk of. I used him a few times and still have a few straws left, I might chance him on a few well muscled cows but wouldn't hold out much hope.

Pidae.m

Pidae.m wrote: »

I've a cow off him. Shocking cow with a shocking couple of calves. Giving her the chop this year

Said cow

patsy_mccabe

Pacha PCH is a very good example of how you cant judge a bull by his looks. Here he is;
He isn't lacking muscle in the picture yet ICBF have him in the bottom 10% for muscle.

sonnybill

Have only 3 here this year but anyone else finding GKA inverlocky Gurka calves bit cracked ?

Seanhorse91

Has anyone here chanced MOONDHARRIG KNELL (LM4217)?? He's a new bull on the maternal program at the moment. Has good pedigree with Bavardage and On-Dit, meant to be easy calving at 3.4% and replacement figure of €176.
He's unproven at this point and reliability is obviously an issue but is he worth a go? Have a pb heifer for the bull in a few weeks was going to chance him but not sure if he's worth the risk.
Any input would be greatly appreciated!

charolais0153

Seanhorse91 wrote: »

Has anyone here chanced MOONDHARRIG KNELL (LM4217)?? He's a new bull on the maternal program at the moment. Has good pedigree with Bavardage and On-Dit, meant to be easy calving at 3.4% and replacement figure of €176.
He's unproven at this point and reliability is obviously an issue but is he worth a go? Have a pb heifer for the bull in a few weeks was going to chance him but not sure if he's worth the risk.
Any input would be greatly appreciated!

Ere was meant to be easy calving

tanko

Seanhorse91 wrote: »

Has anyone here chanced MOONDHARRIG KNELL (LM4217)?? He's a new bull on the maternal program at the moment. Has good pedigree with Bavardage and On-Dit, meant to be easy calving at 3.4% and replacement figure of €176.
He's unproven at this point and reliability is obviously an issue but is he worth a go? Have a pb heifer for the bull in a few weeks was going to chance him but not sure if he's worth the risk.
Any input would be greatly appreciated!

I think you've answered your own question there, it's always a bit of a risk putting a new unproven bull on heifers, better to use a proven easy calver.
A flaw with Eurostar figures is that they often give too low a figure for calving difficulty to new bulls, this figure often goes up a fair bit when the calves start arriving.
On-Dit is an easy enough calved bull but i've noticed that Bulls with him in their breeding can be tricky enough at calving eg FZF, ZCH.

milligan2

Anybody keep any heifers off LZF,CH bull.I have a lovely weanling heifer here but looking at his milk figures (LZFs) she won't feed a kitten,Mom is only so so for milk.

squinn2912

Not familiar with him but if the mom isn't great and she's char then I wouldn't entertain it

Seanhorse91

tanko wrote: »

I think you've answered your own question there, it's always a bit of a risk putting a new unproven bull on heifers, better to use a proven easy calver.
A flaw with Eurostar figures is that they often give too low a figure for calving difficulty to new bulls, this figure often goes up a fair bit when the calves start arriving.
On-Dit is an easy enough calved bull but i've noticed that Bulls with him in their breeding can be tricky enough at calving eg FZF, ZCH.

Thanks for the feedback tanko. I was thinking as much. I don't want to take any chances on her. Might throw him into a few cows and see how they turn out. With them figures he's worth a try but no doubt they'll fall rapidly as soon as a few cows are incalf😂
Any suggestions for an easy calving, high replacement lm bull out there? My heifer for bulling is out of mullary intrepid so ideally a bull out there without wilodge tonka or sympa.

patsy_mccabe

Seanhorse91 wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback tanko. I was thinking as much. I don't want to take any chances on her. Might throw him into a few cows and see how they turn out. With them figures he's worth a try but no doubt they'll fall rapidly as soon as a few cows are incalf��
Any suggestions for an easy calving, high replacement lm bull out there? My heifer for bulling is out of mullary intrepid so ideally a bull out there without wilodge tonka or sympa.

You could try ZAG. He is Ampertaine commander x Ronick Hawk. Just be wary of using him if your heifer is a bit compact. ZAG figures are not great for skeletal. In other words he breeds smallish but muscley cattle.

GiantPencil

Seanhorse91 wrote: »

tanko wrote: »

I think you've answered your own question there, it's always a bit of a risk putting a new unproven bull on heifers, better to use a proven easy calver.
A flaw with Eurostar figures is that they often give too low a figure for calving difficulty to new bulls, this figure often goes up a fair bit when the calves start arriving.
On-Dit is an easy enough calved bull but i've noticed that Bulls with him in their breeding can be tricky enough at calving eg FZF, ZCH.

Thanks for the feedback tanko. I was thinking as much. I don't want to take any chances on her. Might throw him into a few cows and see how they turn out. With them figures he's worth a try but no doubt they'll fall rapidly as soon as a few cows are incalf😂
Any suggestions for an easy calving, high replacement lm bull out there? My heifer for bulling is out of mullary intrepid so ideally a bull out there without wilodge tonka or sympa.

How dead set are you on using Limousin? Could try a Saler bull like Ulsan who's 1.2% for CD at 90% reliability...get a heifer and you'll be laughing with his Milk figures

Seanhorse91

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

You could try ZAG. He is Ampertaine commander x Ronick Hawk. Just be wary of using him if your heifer is a bit compact. ZAG figures are not great for skeletal. In other words he breeds smallish but muscley cattle.

Ya we've 2 calves from Zag off heifers, wouldn't you know both would be bulls😂 Fine calves infairness but the country is going to be full of Zag cattle the way he's being used! Wouldn't mind using different breeding to him but I'd say I'll end up going with him if I can't find an alternative.

Giant pencil: Ya the saler would leave a lovely heifer but with my lady being pb and she'd be calving at over 2 and a half I'd love to give her a lim to get a pb calf from her. She's a good strong heifer too

Future Farmer

Seanhorse91 wrote: »

Ya we've 2 calves from Zag off heifers, wouldn't you know both would be bulls😂 Fine calves infairness but the country is going to be full of Zag cattle the way he's being used! Wouldn't mind using different breeding to him but I'd say I'll end up going with him if I can't find an alternative.

Giant pencil: Ya the saler would leave a lovely heifer but with my lady being pb and she'd be calving at over 2 and a half I'd love to give her a lim to get a pb calf from her. She's a good strong heifer too

Sexed FTY & LM2065 there in PG not sure what else is around...

I have a few FL21 still in the flask.

Would Hamlet the ABS bull be something you'd consider or that polled bull OEO or even Iceberg?

sonnybill

Seanhorse91 wrote: »

Ya we've 2 calves from Zag off heifers, wouldn't you know both would be bulls😂 Fine calves infairness but the country is going to be full of Zag cattle the way he's being used! Wouldn't mind using different breeding to him but I'd say I'll end up going with him if I can't find an alternative.

+1

Zag is going to be overused, his figures are so good even on a 2 star cow he'll bring a 4-5 star heifer calf

Future Farmer

sonnybill wrote: »

Seanhorse91 wrote: »

Ya we've 2 calves from Zag off heifers, wouldn't you know both would be bulls�� Fine calves infairness but the country is going to be full of Zag cattle the way he's being used! Wouldn't mind using different breeding to him but I'd say I'll end up going with him if I can't find an alternative.

+1

Zag is going to be overused, his figures are so good even on a 2 star cow he'll bring a 4-5 star heifer calf

Will make AMPERTAINE COMMANDER APM sired bulls look unattractive....

The show-end of Limousin has got very very narrow, using about 3 sires just looking at what was on show in Tullamore. Is it really what the Limousin is about? Or could you say the same for all show cattle (being too extreme)?

GiantPencil

Had a glance at the Tullamore show catalogue. Would have suggested that the Charolais were in a similar situation but judging by the catalogue there was a good mix of bulls used. Definitly a lot of Ampertaine bulls used in the Limo section alright

patsy_mccabe

Found my 8 month old ZAG heifer calf bulling this morning.:eek: How's that for fertility?
Checked her there on ICBF and she is €132 for replacement. Wasn't planning on keeping her as I'm way over stocked.

Its something to keep in mind with these high indexed heifers. They will come bulling very young. Had a Seepa TeeJay IS4 heifer do the same a few years back. 8 months old too.

Never wrestle with pigs

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Found my 8 month old ZAG heifer calf bulling this morning.:eek: How's that for fertility?
Checked her there on ICBF and she is €132 for replacement. Wasn't planning on keeping her as I'm way over stocked.

Its something to keep in mind with these high indexed heifers. They will come bulling very young. Had a Seepa TeeJay IS4 heifer do the same a few years back. 8 months old too.

Got caught this year myself. Two six month old heifers got a shot of the lad. Never seen them bulling so young. Separated them all and gave them the jab a few weeks later. Wasn't thinking of keeping one either but it's hard to give that fertility away.

adne

Seanhorse91 wrote: »

Ya we've 2 calves from Zag off heifers, wouldn't you know both would be bulls😂 Fine calves infairness but the country is going to be full of Zag cattle the way he's being used! Wouldn't mind using different breeding to him but I'd say I'll end up going with him if I can't find an alternative.

Giant pencil: Ya the saler would leave a lovely heifer but with my lady being pb and she'd be calving at over 2 and a half I'd love to give her a lim to get a pb calf from her. She's a good strong heifer too

You could try UPI. Easy calved. And figures are good for maternal and terminal.

AGB also looks good. As tanko said he is on dit bred but is easier calved and proven thsn some of his sons

Seanhorse91

adne wrote: »

You could try UPI. Easy calved. And figures are good for maternal and terminal.

AGB also looks good. As tanko said he is on dit bred but is easier calved and proven thsn some of his sons

2 lovely bulls there that'd suit me perfectly! Thanks very much. They'd be A1. Bavarage has serious figures to be fair. Anyone have any calves from him? Any retained for breeding?I've a week before my lady comes bulling better go looking fo them straws fairly lively:D

GiantPencil

Eurogene new ai book: https://issuu.com/eurogeneais/docs/beef_2017_web 

wiggy123

some gd bulls with them

The man in red and black

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Found my 8 month old ZAG heifer calf bulling this morning.:eek: How's that for fertility?
Checked her there on ICBF and she is €132 for replacement. Wasn't planning on keeping her as I'm way over stocked.

Sure chance an easy calving lim on her :P :P:P:P.

Hard Knocks

GiantPencil wrote: »

Eurogene new ai book: https://issuu.com/eurogeneais/docs/beef_2017_web 

See Jester & Breezer have gone, they looked good bulls.
Allot more SI's.

Has anyone ever use Thrunton Fairfax of see his progeny

Future Farmer

New Progressive Beef Catalogue

http://www.progressivegenetics.ie/docs/Beef_Catalogue_2017.pdf

wiggy123

not much new in it, regards Aberdeen Angus bulls

sako 85

question on the PG catalogue. Where a bull is named as a "Test Sire". Am I right in saying they are on the Gene Ireland Maternal Bull panel and can be got for €5 a straw. If you order them from PG however it'll cost more?