External Security Light Questions

Dades

Hi folks,

I have been tasked by the wife into adjusting an existing external light, and I have some questions...

There is a functioning existing light (see below) that has a motion sensor underneath, but the missis wants a light she can have the option to leave on all the time while she's alone in the house.

The existing light has an internal wall switch which also has a small dial from 1-7 on it - which I guess is supposed to let you choose how long the light stays on for - but doesn't. So you can switch the light to ON (sensor turns it on for only 10 seconds at a time), or OFF.

My question is can I change this existing setup to one where that switch controls a basic ON/OFF light. If possible using the existing light (and switch), although I already have a new non-sensor version in the box I could replace it with.

Ideally I would like both options - sensor light, and an ON/OFF light - but I can't see how I could get that working without putting in a new switch somewhere.

I'm no sparky, but willing to get stuck in, so any thoughts welcome.

Cheers.

DublinDilbert

Dades wrote: »

Hi folks,

I have been tasked by the wife into adjusting an existing external light, and I have some questions...

There is a functioning existing light (see below) that has a motion sensor underneath, but the missis wants a light she can have the option to leave on all the time while she's alone in the house.

The existing light has an internal wall switch which also has a small dial from 1-7 on it - which I guess is supposed to let you choose how long the light stays on for - but doesn't. So you can switch the light to ON (sensor turns it on for only 10 seconds at a time), or OFF.

My question is can I change this existing setup to one where that switch controls a basic ON/OFF light. If possible using the existing light (and switch), although I already have a new non-sensor version in the box I could replace it with.

Ideally I would like both options - sensor light, and an ON/OFF light - but I can't see how I could get that working without putting in a new switch somewhere.

I'm no sparky, but willing to get stuck in, so any thoughts welcome.

Cheers.

There's quite a few different ways to do this. Firstly if the new light is going to be left on for long periods you should consider getting an energy efficient one rather than having 500W on for long periods.

Can you post a picture of your internal switch?

Nearly all these lights have a feature that if the power is cycled quickly they go into continuous mode which keeps the light on all the time. this would be done with a quick flick of the switch. To take them out of continious mode they need the power pulled for a number of seconds and they they'll go back to being a sensor light.

You could simply change your internal switch to allow you to use the continuous function above.

Dades

Thanks DublinDilbert,

DublinDilbert wrote: »

There's quite a few different ways to do this. Firstly if the new light is going to be left on for long periods you should consider getting an energy efficient one rather than having 500W on for long periods.

Can you post a picture of your internal switch?

The "permanent" light would only ever be on for a few hours, a few times a month. Like I said it's really just for the times the wife is at home and I'm not (which alas doesn't happen much these days!) - but I'll entertain a more efficient solution if prudent.

The internal switch looks like a basic light switch, above which is a thumb dial that has a scale between 1 and 7. If I recall, there's also a "black down arrow" character before the "1" on the dial. I'll grab a pic and post later or tomorrow.

DublinDilbert wrote: »

Nearly all these lights have a feature that if the power is cycled quickly they go into continuous mode which keeps the light on all the time. this would be done with a quick flick of the switch. To take them out of continious mode they need the power pulled for a number of seconds and they they'll go back to being a sensor light.

You could simply change your internal switch to allow you to use the continuous function above.

So the determination as to how long the light stays on is done in the switch, rather than the light itself?

So potentially changing the switch might turn it into a basic ON/OFF. That would give me one solution, but of course would leave me without my sensor light. Can you have two switches working in tandem, or would that be overkill/madness? Or maybe just a special switch with a proper delay choice that includes "always on"...

Bruthal

Dades wrote: »

So the determination as to how long the light stays on is done in the switch, rather than the light itself?

So potentially changing the switch might turn it into a basic ON/OFF. That would give me one solution, but of course would leave me without my sensor light. Can you have two switches working in tandem, or would that be overkill/madness? Or maybe just a special switch with a proper delay choice that includes "always on"...

What happens on most of them now is, you put a standard switch inside which can turn the light off, but if you turn it on-off-on within a second or 2, it will now stay on until switched off.

You then turn it off for about 5 or 6 seconds or more then back on to put it into sensor mode, and when it senses something, it will stay on for the duration set on one of 2 dials on the light sensor itself, the second dial being the setting for how dark you want it to be before the sensor will bring it on, as obviously you wont want it coming on during daylight hours with the sensor.

Your suggestion about 2 switches in tandom can be done if it was a sensor light without the above feature, and this works well. It needs 1 extra wire to the light. One switch would connect to the normal position for the Live into the sensor, the other would connect to the out going live from the sensor, and this second switch would keep the light always on. But i think most sensor lights have the above quick switching setup to change modes.

Dades

robbie7730 wrote: »

What happens on most of them now is, you put a standard switch inside which can turn the light off, but if you turn it on-off-on within a second or 2, it will now stay on until switched off.

You then turn it off for about 5 or 6 seconds or more then back on to put it into sensor mode, and when it senses something, it will stay on for the duration set on one of 2 dials on the light sensor itself, the second dial being the setting for how dark you want it to be before the sensor will bring it on, as obviously you wont want it coming on during daylight hours with the sensor.

Well I just tried that and it doesn't seem to work with my switch.

No matter what I do I can't get the light to stay on for longer than about 5 seconds. You can see from the pics below the actual switch with the dial on the top barely visible (yes it's installed upside down!) and the light itself that has the two dials you mention. I replaced an existing light with this current one a few years back, using the connections already in place.

robbie7730 wrote: »

Your suggestion about 2 switches in tandom can be done if it was a sensor light without the above feature, and this works well. It needs 1 extra wire to the light. One switch would connect to the normal position for the Live into the sensor, the other would connect to the out going live from the sensor, and this second switch would keep the light always on. But i think most sensor lights have the above quick switching setup to change modes.

This is kinda above my paygrade... Is there some kind of switch I could fit that would sort this? I get the feeling my switch is knackered as it doesn't seem to change anything no matter what "setting" it's on.

Thanks!

Bruthal

Im not sure what way your setup is wired, for any timer on the internal switch to over-ride the actual timer on the light sensor outside, would need the extra wire out also. Unless the sensor light did in fact have the setup descrived earlier and by d-dilbert, where a quick switching on off and on again set the light on, and the timer on the inside switch maybe then turned it off after a while.

Do you need the sensor aspect of the light? If so, the best option would seem to be a new sensor light of the type earlier mentioned, and a standard inside switch.

You could maybe look at the wiring behind the switch, and see if it has just one live going to the light as well as neutral and earth.

Dades

Thanks robbie,

I will have a look tomorrow behind the switch and take a pic.

Can you tell from shot of the security light if it would be compatible with an extra live to enable it to utilise the quick on/off function? (I may just fit a standard switch to see if I can get a lucky solution.)

To answer your question, I do need the sensor part as 99% of the time it will use this function.

Bruthal

Dades wrote: »

Can you tell from shot of the security light if it would be compatible with an extra live to enable it to utilise the quick on/off function? (I may just fit a standard switch to see if I can get a lucky solution.)

Yea the extra switch wire, if installed from a second switch in on the wall, up into them lights is just connected to the outgoing side of the sensor, in effect bypassing it by feeding the bulb direct.

So take a photo of the wiring behind the switch (turn the power to it off), and we can see what is next then.

It probably does just have a 3 core L,N,E to the light, in which case the new light and standard switch may be the way forward.

Dades

Hi guys,

Here's what's going on behind the light switch (on the left of that switch is another dimmer switch for an internal light).

Can anyone tell if this setup gives me the option of adding a new light, standard switch and the ability to toggle the switch to keep the light on?

Cheers!

Bruthal

Looks like just a switch feed and switch wire out to the sensor light anyway. One seems to be black but is probably still a switch wire anyway.

So you can get a new sensor light which has the quick on/off setup to stay on, and use a normal light switch in place of that other one you had.

Dades

Okay, sounds good.

I have a normal light switch which I picked up so I just need to find a lamp that will stay on in the way you've described.

Was in Woodies over the weekend and all of the security lamps seems to either not mention a time, or had a max of 8 mins on time. Last thing I want is to buy and fit a security lamp that does nothing my existing one does...

Anyhow, while I'm here... can someone tell me how I fit those wires into this switch? :pac:

Bruthal

Assuming the red pvc/pvc (one with outer grey) is the switch feed, connect that and the red wire which is going to the dimmer, into common terminal of new switch.

Connect other (black) pvc/pvc into the new switch 1way terminal.

See if both outside lights then work, either light on with the other off is the test to show switch is right, then vice versa.

Edit:
Can you put up pic of back of old switch you removed, before doing anything. You said it had a timer of some sort, that could mean the black cable in your pic was actually a neutral. Shoud of took pic of old setup with wires wtill into the switch.

But if that dimmer to left has only the red and black wires into it and no others from behind it, then connecting as above shold do the job.

Dades

Lucky I take pictures of everything!

Let me know if anything here contradicts what you thought might be the setup.

[Just to clarify - the dimmer switch is for in internal light - I don't know why they're connected at all...]

This is the back of the old/new switches:


And this was how the old switch is wired (upside down):


Much appreciated!

Bruthal

Great stuff taking pics.

So its exactly as described in last post before the edit. Both reds into the common of the new switch. The black pvc/pvc (inner black, outer grey) into 1way of new switch.

Then all you need is the new sensor light. Electrical wholesalers are the best place to get them, and they will be able to tell you about the on-off switching setup on them better than woodies. Should be cheaper as well.

Dades

Fantastic.

This seems exactly what I need to know.

I'll have a look about for a electrical wholesalers in south Dublin and make a call or two. I guess I'll opt for one of the energy efficient lights assuming I can get one that fits the main criteria of being able to toggle on.

Thanks again. Will repost once I get sorted (or electrocuted).