Pro12: Leinster vs Munster, Friday 4th November 8pm; Live on TG4

Risteard

Can't understand why we didn't take the scrum 5 metres from thee line. We had a clear upperhand when Healy went off.

Anyway congrats Leinster.

From a Munster POV, I'm hoping that we get some sort of attack coach with a track record next year. Our attack is once again, shown to be extremely limited, I'm convinced that it's not the personnel in the backline at this stage but the coaching as our backlines look pretty much the same no matter who's playing.

Defence also wasn't up to scratch. Hope Earls' injury isn't too serious.

twinytwo

Deleted User wrote: »

about what? It was a very even game, referee kept both teams overly honest, and still managed to award more penalties than there were rucks.

Both teams fairly resolute in defence, and both messed up opportunities to score.

Fairly normal RaboDirect Pro 12 league game really.

For a team that is supposed to have a superiour scrum and backrow, i didnt see it tonight.

Losing earls was a massive and had coughlan and pom been on from the start things could have gone a whole lot differently.

Leinster would have aspirations of winning the HC?... i would be worried.

John_Rambo

Deleted User wrote: »

Lucky there was no time left to play 24 - 19 Big Heart

Imagine it was a 120 minute game? Leinster would be in the minus scores.

donfers

Hagz wrote: »

In Leinster's favour? Don't know what game you're watching. The ref has been suspect for sure, but it's even on both sides. Leamy got sent off justifiably as Munster were absolutely killing any ball Leinster brought into the 22. Heaslip's yellow on the other hand was questionable. The ref penalized Leinster 3 times in the maul for doing nothing wrong. But I can accept that yellow as Leinster probably deserved one considering Nacewa's dangerous tackle etc. As for the scrums.....what have Munster got to complain about. He gave them a penalty try, you can't ask for more.

His reffing didn't favour anybody, if you still believe so I'd like to hear some examples.

jaysus if i wrote all the examples where he got it blatanly wrong this would be a seriously long post, he was absolutely abysmal and why he was given this game i don't know

still as a Munster fan, a bonus point, keeping Leinster tryless again, keeping their excellent back row quiet, smashing up their pack like we haven't done in a while in the second half are all consolations although in fairness neither side was great and the referee ruined the game with his constant mindboggling decisions

I wonder will the lad, O' Brien I think it was be cited for raking down on Donnacha Ryan 5 or 6 times

pajunior

Munster

Decent game as a spectacle. But both sides were disappointing. Munster weren't at the races for 60 minutes while Leinster really should have turned some of that possession and field position into a try, although if Mushy wasn't such a glory-hogger we would have gotten one

For Munster:
Have to say Mafi impressed me no amount. His best performance in a number of years.
Keatley must be in with a shout for the 15 jersey.
DOC was good tonight, not great but one of his better games.

For Leinster:
Darcy/McFadden didn't work for me. Both did ok at times individually but never looked like getting either of our wide men free at any stage. Thought Kearney could have done better when he joined the line, took it into contact and the ball was always slow coming out of the ruck.
Toner was good, he looks like he'll tread water at HC level but he's no Hines who we are going to miss hugely this year.

twinytwo

twinytwo wrote: »

For a team that is supposed to have a superiour scrum and backrow, i didnt see it tonight.

Losing earls was a massive and had coughlan and pom been on from the start things could have gone a whole lot differently.

Leinster would have aspirations of winning the HC?... i would be worried.

why?

I wouldn't be worried about it at all. It takes a special day to wipe Munster off the park, and a Friday night after the return of WC players was never ever going to be that time.

Munster are reigning league champions after a ridiculous win record last season, and aren't past it. Why would we be worried about a solid win that didn't require us to overextend too much?

The only thing that was worrying was that we really only got into 2/3 try scoring positions, but a lot of that was down to the referee's refusal to accept even the slightest bit of ****e at the breakdown, which caught both teams by the goolies on many occasions.

profitius

Munster

I thought the ref was very good. He got some calls wrong but rugby isn't an easy game to ref.

Do we want referees to ignore illegal play or be strict on it?

Hyperbullet

Fairly subdued affair to be honest. A lot of improvement required from both sides going into next week. From a Munster perspective I'm happy that the scrum is improving. Fair play to Leinster though, no complaints from me.

profitius

profitius wrote: »

I thought the ref was very good. He got some calls wrong but rugby isn't an easy game to ref.

Do we want referees to ignore illegal play or be strict on it?

he was fine, all you want is consistency. Be that overtly pernickity or ridiculously lenient, just be the same throughout the game!

Hagz

Munster

donfers wrote: »

jaysus if i wrote all the examples where he got it blatanly wrong this would be a seriously long post, he was absolutely abysmal and why he was given this game i don't know

Yeh, but it would be even on both sides.

Conas

Fergus McFadden was like a bull in attack, I thought he had a fantastic game to be honest. Was extremely physical aswell. He'll get better with games, and he needs to keep being played. In my opinion he was the man of the match. Well done McFadden.

The Aussie

Deleted User wrote: »

a lot of that was down to the referee's refusal to accept even the slightest bit of ****e at the breakdown,

I did not mind that to he honest, after the orgy of the World Cup and at least he was overly consistent at the break downs, other parts of his game could have been better, over all i will give him a B+.

donfers

Deleted User wrote: »

he was fine, all you want is consistency. Be that overtly pernickity or ridiculously lenient, just be the same throughout the game!

he was rubbish and not consistent at all, he'd penalise an offense and then the other team would do the exact same thing and he'd do nothing, he was ultra-strict on some occassions and ultra-lenient on others, the players didn't know how to deal with him

chancer12

Munster

McFadden MOTM, are you serious?! Is he your husband/brother/son?

ironingbored

Munster

donfers wrote: »

I wonder will the lad, O' Brien I think it was be cited for raking down on Donnacha Ryan 5 or 6 times

Great to see a bit of the old shoeing back. If you're sealing off you deserve to feel the wrath of the studs. Once it's not on a prone limb or head/neck area it's perfectly legit.

Conas

pajunior wrote: »

For Leinster:
Darcy/McFadden didn't work for me. Both did ok at times individually but never looked like getting either of our wide men free at any stage.

D'Arcy and McFadden gained yards in evey attack. They completely outlassed their opposite numbers. hmm..dont agree with your judgement.

GerM

twinytwo wrote: »

For a team that is supposed to have a superiour scrum and backrow, i didnt see it tonight.

Losing earls was a massive and had coughlan and pom been on from the start things could have gone a whole lot differently.

Leinster would have aspirations of winning the HC?... i would be worried.

I wouldn't. They were ferocious at the breakdown and that's where the game was won and lost. Leinster's back row and pack generally skittled Munster out of the way at the tackle area for a spell there when the scoreboard was ticking.

Anyone who knows their onions weren't saying anything like that of the scrums. Munster were always going to be at least even; Botha is a quality scrummager. I wouldn't be worried at all. Two sub props, McLaughlin in the row and was it a seven man scrum? No big deal. That game was won in the first 20 minutes of the second half where Leinster bossed the game and moved away. It was far from a vintage performance from either side. Leinster's rucking was excellent as was Munster's defence but the better side won in the end. Munster's got stronger when they brought on players that should have been starting and Leinster we bringing on McLaughlin, Hagan, EOM and Ruddock. The single biggest change was Reddan though. He was supposedly sick and not able to play and boy did it show. He was awful after Boss was the best player on the park for the spell I saw him.

As a side note, I can't remember the last time I saw a referee so quick on the whistle. McLaughlin went to ground there at the end, Munster player over him brushed off the ball with his hands and referee gave the penalty. Was same for both sides and that's why the penalty count was a joke.

Conas

chancer12 wrote: »

McFadden MOTM, are you serious?! Is he your husband/brother/son?

No, he had a brilliant game. Outstanding actually.

donfers

Hagz wrote: »

Yeh, but it would be even on both sides.

that's certainly not how i saw it, if one team's fans are saying he was fine/even-handed and the others are absolutely livid (see munster fans forum) then you can be fairly sure that he didn't have the best game

anyway, sick of talking about the ref....leinster won, that's that, both sides though look very ragged although the ref never let a rugby game develop so it came down to a war of attrition and I was surprised how well Munster stood up to it, particularly in the second half, top marks to leamy in his duel with heaslip and leinster badly miss Hines.......POM and Coughlan should definitely start for Munster next week

profitius

Munster

From a Munster perspective I'm happy enough. The Munster pack put it up to Leinster. There wasn't much between the sides and we finally have a scrum to fear!

Keatley should have come on for ROG I thought since Munster needed tries and he is better with ball in hand. Are they afraid to take ROG off?!

ironingbored

Munster

I thought ref was excellent in the first half if a little pedantic.

It went to his head in the 2nd half and he was shocking (for both teams).

Munster's last penalty was unbelievable. Tackler not rolled away on his knees right in front of him.

Anyone else think Mike Ross has been at the pies? Looked very sluggish coming off.

decisions

Munster

Good game to watch, ref got a bit annoying after a while he was very fussy. What was the Leamy yellow for..? I missed it. Happy we won but at the same time we could have played better and I'm disappointed we didn't get over and our penalty count when we were defending our line was not very high.

I hope Earls is okay he has been so unlucky with injury fingers crossed that it is not as bad as it seemed as he went off.

donfers

ironingbored wrote: »

Great to see a bit of the old shoeing back. If you're sealing off you deserve to feel the wrath of the studs. Once it's not on a prone limb or head/neck area it's perfectly legit.

you're totally wrong

Conas

ironingbored wrote: »

Great to see a bit of the old shoeing back. If you're sealing off you deserve to feel the wrath of the studs. Once it's not on a prone limb or head/neck area it's perfectly legit.

Sean O'Brien doesn't go to the gym. Instead he uses humans as treadmills. #seanobrienfacts

GerM

Conas wrote: »

No, he had a brilliant game. Outstanding actually.

He was like a bull in attack. He did nothing to give me any comfort in his defensive abilities. The one where he shot up to try and smash POC and was sidestepped by a 6'6" lock was a howler. If that was someone that could move it was a major problem. Still an industrious winger all day for me where he doesn't have to make those calls and his judgement isn't exposed.

chupacabra has been very quiet since mentioning thomond2006...

Odds on one of them taking the others head off during the game?

decisions

Munster

GerM wrote: »

He was like a bull in attack. He did nothing to give me any comfort in his defensive abilities. The one where he shot up to try and smash POC and was sidestepped by a 6'6" lock was a howler. If that was someone that could move it was a major problem. Still an industrious winger all day for me where he doesn't have to make those calls and his judgement isn't exposed.

Today he didn't show any creativity which does worry me, I am starting to come around to the idea of him on the wing, but I think that this season he will end up getting more game time in the center than on the wing with the likes of Fitz, D Kearney, Carr and Horgan and almost every other player we have in the backline also looking good on the wing.

John_Rambo

donfers wrote: »

you're totally wrong

So, he will be cited without a doubt?

Conas

GerM wrote: »

He was like a bull in attack. He did nothing to give me any comfort in his defensive abilities. The one where he shot up to try and smash POC and was sidestepped by a 6'6" lock was a howler. If that was someone that could move it was a major problem. Still an industrious winger all day for me where he doesn't have to make those calls and his judgement isn't exposed.

He was good defensive what are you talking about? He shot up once, fair enough one bad thing he did in the whole game. Other than that he was very good even in defense. You probaly don't like McFadden, because anyone who wears BOD's sacred number 13 jersey is deemed crap before the game even starts. Drico has been very poor in defense, but don't think you'd be brave enough to admit that somehow.

Conas

Conas wrote: »

He was good defensive what are you talking about? He shot up once, fair enough one bad thing he did in the whole game. Other than that he was very good even in defense. You probaly don't like McFadden, because anyone who wears BOD's sacred number 13 jersey is deemed crap before the game even starts. Drico has been very poor in defense, but don't think you'd be brave enough to admit that somehow.

Conas, there's no need to go on the attack when someone disagrees with you. It makes you sound like a kid!

Conas

John_Rambo wrote: »

So, he will be cited without a doubt?

How will he be cited? For D Ryan lying on the other side cheating. He did right to do what he did. Munster were cheating at the breakdown, and should all have been treadmilled out of the way every single time.

RuggieBear

Conas wrote: »

He was good defensive what are you talking about? He shot up once, fair enough one bad thing he did in the whole game. Other than that he was very good even in defense. You probaly don't like McFadden, because anyone who wears BOD's sacred number 13 jersey is deemed crap before the game even starts. Drico has been very poor in defense, but don't think you'd be brave enough to admit that somehow.

reign yourself in there.

Judgement Day

Neil Francis

Another horrible, headless spectacle. Really disappointing stuff from Munster but at least there was improvement in the scrum, but the indiscipline by the usual suspects was unreal. I thought Danny Barnes looked fairly sharp and even TOL's late cameo was encouraging. What happened to poor old Dougie Howlett, he might as well not have been on the pitch tonight? Being beaten by Leinster is always a major kick in the teeth (for me) but especially when the game was there for the taking.

Conas

Deleted User wrote: »

Conas, there's no need to go on the attack when someone disagrees with you. It makes you sound like a kid!

I'm not attacking anyone. I'm smiling writing these messages. It's a healthy debate.

GerM

Conas wrote: »

He was good defensive what are you talking about? He shot up once, fair enough one bad thing he did in the whole game. Other than that he was very good even in defense. You probaly don't like McFadden, because anyone who wears BOD's sacred number 13 jersey is deemed crap before the game even starts. Drico has been very poor in defense, but don't think you'd be brave enough to admit that somehow.

You can't shoot up and leave a massive gap in the midfield. If you do it you have to make the tackle. End of. It's the most risky thing to do. It doesn't matter if he does it only once in a game he has done it several times now and it costs his team. I'm a big fan of McFadden as a winger where I think he's superb. The rest of your post is ridiculous..

RuggieBear

i'll have to watch the match again but i didn't feel stressed at any time that leinster were going to lose. we built up the lead and cleared the bench allowing munster back into it but by then we had done enough and the game was well into garbage time.

as for the scrums i think our first choice scrum won more penalties against the munster first choice and it was only when healy went off that munster got anything more than parity. the scrum went to pieces when ross came off and lochy was in the 2nd row. only worry is if we face a decent scrum and we have to make a forced front row substitution

Conas

GerM wrote: »

You can't shoot up and leave a massive gap in the midfield. If you do it you have to make the tackle. End of. It's the most risky thing to do. It doesn't matter if he does it only once in a game he has done it several times now and it costs his team. I'm a big fan of McFadden as a winger where I think he's superb. The rest of your post is ridiculous..

Hang on for a second Ger son. Lets calm things down. McFadden has been under Dricos wing and guidance at Leinster for a long time. Drico has shot up before and missed too. But this is a lesson Drico has been teaching McFadden I'm guessing. But if you do it once, and it works, it can be the best thing ever, and can create a try from nothing. It's risky but then again so is gambling. I think he should keep trying this, he just needs to time it right the next time.

shuffol

Mcfaddens too one dimensional as a center for me, he's got the aggression but not the size to really be a force there.

ironingbored

Munster

Judgement Day wrote: »

even TOL's late cameo was encouraging.

I thought he came and began throwing his usual horrible passes. Awful.

decisions

Munster

RuggieBear wrote: »

as for the scrums i think our first choice scrum won more penalties against the munster first choice and it was only when healy went off that munster got anything more than parity. the scrum went to pieces when ross came off and lochy was in the 2nd row. only worry is if we face a decent scrum and we have to make a forced front row substitution

Is a bit of a worry, but for the last 10 min or so we had no Jamie at the back (I didn't cop, until the penalty try) which didn't help. Also Ross didn't look th best coming off.

O'Leary looked good so long as he wasn't passing. Further enhancing my beliefs that he should be asked to look at playing on the wing or in the centre... He has an eye for a gap in open play, and is actually an elusive runner. His defence is rock solid too.

His passing though, atrocious.

GerM

shuffol wrote: »

Mcfaddens too one dimensional as a center for me, he's got the aggression but not the size to really be a force there.

Very much so. He actually reminds me of Darce circa 2006 when he was a wrecking ball in contact and could not be put down for love nor money. The only thing is that Darce had a few more tricks up his sleeve. McFadden will never create for those around him which is an issue also. Teams will figure it out very quickly, hit him early, hit him hard, hit him with two players if needs be as the ball isn't going to be moved.

He's fantastic on the shoulder of others or receiving in space but he's limited as you say, shuffol. I really would like to see him tried as Horgan's replacement. Darce might not be what he was but he's still a better option than McFadden these days in the centre in my opinion.

pajunior

Munster

shuffol wrote: »

Mcfaddens too one dimensional as a center for me, he's got the aggression but not the size to really be a force there.

I haven't checked sizes on sites or anything but I would have thought that he is bigger then Bod, Darcy or Earls??

totallegend

Munster

On the train home now, a couple of thoughts without the benefit of tv;

Whatever Munster are paying Botha is worth it, whatever they're paying du Preez is not, he's pants.

The ref was very whistle happy but I don't think either team benefitted more than the other. Plus I cannot remember a L v M game in which there wasn't bitching about the ref.

I thought that Nacewa on the wing with Kearney at fb was the right call, but not so sure now, Nacewa was wasted standing outside waiting for the ball.

Murray has still to convince me that he has mastered the basics of SH play, but have to say he kicked very well esp in the second half.

The Leinster back row was well off the pace, I hope it's just rust after the WC.

Chambers does not deserve to be ahead of Barnes.

Open to correction on all of the above once I've watched it back...

decisions

Munster

Deleted User wrote: »

O'Leary looked good so long as he wasn't passing. Further enhancing my beliefs that he should be asked to look at playing on the wing or in the centre... He has an eye for a gap in open play, and is actually an elusive runner. His defence is rock solid too.

His passing though, atrocious.

Would like to see that tried, his offloading isn't half bad considering how bad his passing is.

shuffol

What'd people make of Toner tonight, I'm still not convinced by him, think 2nd row will be a weak point for Leinster this year

shuffol

pajunior wrote: »

I haven't checked sizes on sites or anything but I would have thought that he is bigger then Bod, Darcy or Earls??

Different types of players though, BOD and D'arcy are more elusive runners. As for Earls, he's not a center.

decisions

Munster

Chambers and Doug were anonymous all game.

30 penalties in the game...

Fireball07

totallegend wrote: »

On the train home now, a couple of thoughts without the benefit of tv;

Whatever Munster are paying Botha is worth it, whatever they're paying du Preez is not, he's pants.

The ref was very whistle happy but I don't think either team benefitted more than the other. Plus I cannot remember a L v M game in which there wasn't bitching about the ref.

I thought that Nacewa on the wing with Kearney at fb was the right call, but not so sure now, Nacewa was wasted standing outside waiting for the ball.

Murray has still to convince me that he has mastered the basics of SH play, but have to say he kicked very well esp in the second half.

The Leinster back row was well off the pace, I hope it's just rust after the WC.

Chambers does not deserve to be ahead of Barnes.

Open to correction on all of the above once I've watched it back...

I don't know if Du Preez was that bad today. He's nothing special, but he's a solid scrummager.

There has been bitching about the ref But as you say it didn't really benefit either side. I didn't think he was too bad tbh.

Nacewa was pretty anonymous really...there were a couple of kicks by Munster in the 2nd half that went straight to Leinster players, I would have been dreading it if they came to Nacewa, he's lethal in broken play, but none of them did.

Murray seemed nervous or something today. Made a few silly mistakes, but did a few good things too. And he made one fantastic clearing kick in particular.

And Chambers wasn't bad today, he still has to settle in but as I've said I was hugely impressed by Barnes, I thought he was probably our best player. Some people questioned his defence, but I thought he was very strong today.