Hypocrisy in Northern Ireland - Burning Poppies??

blahfckingblah

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Not really.

You get some folk(our friend Martin would call them west brits) wearing poppies, who wax lyrical about how those British soldiers who fought for Britain 'died for us', yet never have a thing to say about Irish patriots, you wont see them with Lilys.

It is a political symbol, it commemorates british soldiers, wether thats Paddy who died at the Somme or the Brits who ravaged Ireland during the tan war or the sectarian nasties who did so during the troubles... I have no respect for Irish people who commemorate those people and 'look after' ex British servicemen by buying poppies... Your rarely see those people wearing Lilys or at commemorations for Irish patriots. With that in mind its apparant that its not truly about commemorating Irish dead. If it was they wouldnt ignore Irish patriots, or insult them by glorifying the deaths of their enemy.

your probably right on this one TBH

partyguinness

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

I'll break down your posts into the multiple points you make tomorrow at some point and try and answer, for some of it at least. For other parts I cannot really understand what you are trying to say. Your aggressive tone isn't needed and doesn't help make you any more coherant. And if there is one thing you are lacking a little it is coherance.

I will take you up on the point about the First World War while I am here though. I agree with you that it was futile (I agree with nothing else of what you posted, which for the most part was utter drivel) but if anything that makes wearing the poppy all the more poignant and important.

You are clearly very emotional about this and love your country. You have joined an Irish republican boards group. I'm sure the tricolour flag and the easter lily mean much to you. Would I automatically call you fragile and insecure because of this? No, you are not necessarily. Surely you will admit if I am a puppet (I know far more about war and warfare than you do, of that I am confident) for the militaristic causes of Britain than you are as much a puppet for Irish Republican groups?

English lesson 101...If you are going to make a point or a statement. You must be able to back it up.

I am afraid words like "utter drivel" is not a very strong retort and a rather blatent (and immature) attempt at patronising. Always the refugee of the lost. I am surprised you did not start pointing out spelling errors...another classic while deflecting from the uncomfortable points raised.

I would suggest you read over your post again (a few times) and tell me who is incoherent. I am reading a series of disjointed sentences. Perhaps you are having difficulty verbalising your point?

Aggressive tone? I am afraid you are mistaken....my tone is one of resignation and I am an oasis of calm.

ps...thank you for checking out my profile. I am afraid I have no interest in your profile..

LondonIrish90

blahfckingblah wrote: »

your probably right on this one TBH

One (of many) points I'd take him up on; why does the lily remember Irish patriot dead but the poppy glorify British warfighting? Do they not fulfull the same role to some extent... remembrance of your chosen group of men? Unless, he seeks to glorify fighting as long as it is for a cause he personally agrees with, and sees the lily as a symbol of the glorification of combat in that sense?

Mr Wolfe Tone there cannot have it both ways, but most of all I'd like to know his position as he's quite ambiguous and possibly very contradictory.

KeithAFC

LondonIrish, I admire your arguments put forward but some people just have their own views and that is it. I think the whole poppy argument is too OTT. Wear one if you want. It isn't that complicated.

partyguinness

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

One (of many) points I'd take him up on; why does the lily remember Irish patriot dead but the poppy glorify British warfighting? Do they not fulfull the same role to some extent... remembrance of your chosen group of men? Unless, he seeks to glorify fighting as long as it is for a cause he personally agrees with, and sees the lily as a symbol of the glorification of combat in that sense?

Mr Wolfe Tone there cannot have it both ways, but most of all I'd like to know his position as he's quite ambiguous and possibly very contradictory.

...because the Lilly represents those who fought in Easter 1916 to rid Ireland of British rule.

Very different from an imperial adventure to establish who was 'Top Dog'...Britain was not attacked and need I point that WWI was not fought in Britain...I may be wrong but was any British soldier killed in Britain defending the motherland....if you can't see the difference....oh why am I wasting my time with idiots who can't see such fundamental differences ..:rolleyes:

LondonIrish90

partyguinness wrote: »

English lesson 101...If you are going to make a point or a statement. You must be able to back it up.

I am afraid words like "utter drivel" is not a very strong retort and a rather blatent (and immature) attempt at patronising. Always the refugee of the lost. I am surprised you did not start pointing out spelling errors...another classic.

I would suggest you read over your post again (a few times) and tell me who is incoherent. I am reading a series of disjointed sentences. Perhaps you are having difficulty verbalising your point?

Aggressive tone? I am afraid you are mistaken....my tone is one of resignation and I am an oasis of calm.

ps...thank you for checking out my profile. I am afraid I have no interest in your profile..

Perhaps in future you would care not to use such emotive phrases as: "Well..you are certainly the conforming and and obedient type...good for you" or "Sad for you that you are a puppet in the game and cannot see it." or "It is pathetic" should you have any real desire to actually engage in healthy debate. As it is, I believe you are the only one who has made any attempt to patronise however if you should wish to affirm your belief that such comments are perfectly acceptable when trying to reason with someone who maintains a different viewpoint then I suppose we hold very different ideas on how one should go about a discussion of this fashion.

jank

Surprised at this. If burning poppies is an incitement to hatred then so is burning a tri-color, union jack, bible, Koran etc..
I thought the law was not mean to discriminate and factor in personal tastes.

WWI for anyone that knows their history was a disaster for all of Europe and was basically an imperial game of high stakes poker played out by kings, kaisers and emperors. Only the can of worms was opened they didn't have a clue how to finish it. I alway maintain that WWI did not finish until the Berlin wall came down in late 1989. If you want to wear a poppy do by all means but if you want to burn one then you should be free to do so.

partyguinness

Give me patience....if you see my statememts as emotive, that is your opinion and wrong as I am not an emotive person and only you are saying this. I have posted similar statements many times. Perhaps you should take a time out.

Going back to your original point on my post

1. What part do you not understand i.e. where is the incoherence? I can tease it out for you.

2. Where is the "utther drivel"? That is a little on the vague side for my liking.

3. What makes you so sure you know more about war? Rather bold and naive statement to make to a complete stranger on the internet. I would be interested to know what age you are.

I should point out that you felt the need to look up my profile in an attempt to build your retort (and I use that word very loosely). Interesting. Were you lacking in sufficient knowledge that you felt the need to personalise your response rather than address the general points I made?

I am sure you are familiar with the concept of ad hominem and I am afraid that is what you what you have engaged in.

Can we please stay on topic.

BlastedGlute

I would wear it and use it as a time of year to remember Robert McKibben, an ex-PDF soldier who ventured on to the Royal Marine Commandos, then onwards to pass selection for the Special Boat Service(SBS). Rob was unfortunately killed by an IED on a routine patrol with the commandos in Nov '08.

Born and raised in Westport Co.Mayo to Irish parents, he was a proud Irishman who found his place among welcoming families of soldiers which he found in both of the countries he loved so much. He was a close friend to one of my best friends who to went onto the Royal Marines, inspired by Roberts accomplishments. I met him a few times but knew what he was and always in awe of how normal he seemed, I didn't know what to expect.

My Father and Uncles are a mix of navy and army men here in Ireland. My passion for our collective ways, the British and the Irish, is strong enough that it still makes me sad to see such pain and anger continue to be dredged from our bloody mottled history.

I remember him. That's enough reason for me to respect a poppy no matter how some people perceive it.

RMD

partyguinness wrote: »

Oh dear...what history book are you reading from...that statement is..well ignorant is the most polite word I can think of and...well...blonde.

They did not fight for "you". They fought for a foreign army for a foreign King in an emperial adventure. They did not fight for Ireland. They were clearly brave and died terribly but lets not blur the facts here.

So what about the thousands of volunteers who fought under the hope of improving the chances of gaining Home Rule / External association?

There's little point in calling someone ignorant, when you can't spell a word as simple as *imperial*.

partyguinness

RMD wrote: »

So what about the thousands of volunteers who fought under the hope of improving the chances of gaining Home Rule / External association?

There's little point in calling someone ignorant, when you can't spell a word as simple as *imperial*.

LOL...ah yes the spelling fascists...yes it was spelt incorrect...my bad..(10 slaps on the wrist).:o...but you knew what word I was using so no damge done.

That is nonsense about people fighting to improve chances of Home Rule and quite frankly I do no have the time or energy that source that for you. I am not a history teacher.

Hayte

jank wrote: »

Surprised at this. If burning poppies is an incitement to hatred then so is burning a tri-color, union jack, bible, Koran etc..
I thought the law was not mean to discriminate and factor in personal tastes.

WWI for anyone that knows their history was a disaster for all of Europe and was basically an imperial game of high stakes poker played out by kings, kaisers and emperors. Only the can of worms was opened they didn't have a clue how to finish it. I alway maintain that WWI did not finish until the Berlin wall came down in late 1989. If you want to wear a poppy do by all means but if you want to burn one then you should be free do to do so.

Why on earth would you want to burn remembrance poppies? So you can smell the freedom wafting from the embers or something?

Beyond that, why would you then take a picture of yourself burning remembrance poppies and then post it on a massive social networking site on the run up to remembrance day?

The reason why I ask is because alot of people seem to think its enough that this sort of thing is (or should be) protected speech. I don't disagree but at least ask yourself why you are doing it and what you expect the reaction to it will be. Normally when I get an idea to do something in public, and I think alot of people will hate it and not find it funny? Well, I generally won't do that thing I was thinking about.

junder

partyguinness wrote: »

Sorry people, wearing the poppy is not the issue here for the OP.

The fact that it is perfectly acceptable to place Irish tricolours on top of bonfires on July 12th and set them on fire with gay abandonment but burning a piece of plastic to commemorate Britain's historical collective guilt gets you arrested...say no more...:rolleyes:

And what about the burning of union flags on internment bonfires?

LondonIrish90

partyguinness wrote: »

Give me patience....if you see my statememts as emotive, that is your opinion and wrong as I am not an emotive person and only you are saying this. I have posted similar statements many times. Perhaps you should take a time out. You have called people out you have used insulting and unsubstantiated terms which were unnecessary given the overall tone of the debate. If you think that being able to defend these actions with the retort "I have posted similar statements many times" then I suppose it is not worth either of our efforts to continue with that particular line of debate.

Going back to your original point on my post

1. What part do you not understand i.e. where is the incoherence? I can tease it out for you. Your comments about puppets and obedience will do for this one.

2. Where is the "utther drivel"? That is a little on the vague side for my liking. The aforementioned unsubstantiated crap: "the British this, the British that, puttets...egos.. etc

3. What makes you so sure you know more about war? Rather bold and naive statement to make to a complete stranger on the internet. I would be interested to know what age you are. In my third and final year at an extrmemly prestigious university studying war. I didn't say I am 100% certain as you seem to be suggesting either, a mistake on your part there. I am still however fairly confident in my knowledge on the field being greater than yours as a whole. If not, then great for you.

I should point out that you felt the need to look up my profile in an attempt to build your retort (and I use that word very loosely). Interesting. Were you lacking in sufficient knowledge that you felt the need to personalise your response rather than address the general points I made? I looked at your profile out of interest. I don't believe I have engaged in personalising responses to a level any greater than you have so for you to try and take some sort of high ground there is fairly laughable. Maybe call me an idiot, or a puppet, or something else this time? The fact you are pulling me up on this tells me a lot about the levels of desperation you have reached in your attempts to better me in this odd confrontation. Notice also how I derived nothing from your profile which I used as a slight or as ammunition against you?

I am sure you are familiar with the concept of ad hominem and I am afraid that is what you what you have engaged in. I am familiar, although it appears you may not be as nothing of the sort has occurred in our brief and rather dull encounter. Maybe it is you who needs to familiarise yourself with the meaning of the term.

Can we please stay on topic. Lulz, what smugness.

See above responses.

the_syco

The poppy is to commemorate those who fell fighting the two wars. The reasons why they fought are no longer important, only how we remember them.

partyguinness

junder wrote: »

And what about the burning of union flags on internment bonfires?

I should state categorically, IMO:

Burning tricolurs, union jacks, poppies, bibles, Korans,whatever is outrageous and wrong and says more about the intelligence of the people who carry out these acts.

RDM_83 again

Seems like one of these Judgments that seem to be coming out of the UK that seem to think anything that happens on a social network has waaaaay bigger impact than it really does. By this logic shouldn't nearly all the older Murals not be painted over etc their seen by 1000's of people each day everyday of the year.

LondonIrish90

partyguinness wrote: »

I should state categorically, IMO:

Burning tricolurs, union jacks, poppies, bibles, Korans,whatever is outrageous and wrong and says more about the intelligence of the people who carry out these acts.

Interesting that you take that approach to the burning of a poppy, yet dismiss its role in modern British society as a "compulsion to wear pieces of plastic to feel better about themsleves and to ease their guilt for murdering thousands of their own citizens". Surely if this is your true belief then you have no real feeling of disdain towards anyone burning what you see as essentially a piece of plastic?After all, it is only easing my guilt (the son of two irish immigrants, yet proudly and firmly British all the same) and making me feel better about the thousands of murders you presumably are laying on my shoulders? Its either that of a subtle admittance of your own lack of intelligence, and I don't think you are really aiming for the latter with this post!

junder

partyguinness wrote: »

junder wrote: »

And what about the burning of union flags on internment bonfires?

I should state categorically, IMO:

Burning tricolurs, union jacks, poppies, bibles, Korans,whatever is outrageous and wrong and says more about the intelligence of the people who carry out these acts.

I would agree, it also say quite alot about the intelligence of people when they post pictures of themselves involved in illegal / offensive acts. Moreover the problem with burning flags on bonfires (be they 12th bonfires or internment bonfires) is apportioning blame to a person or persons responsable for putting the flags there in the first place, unless of course they were to do something stupid like, I don't know, putting photographs of themselves putting the flags up on bonfires, on, say, Facebook. Then there's not much the Police can do.
There was a bonfire this 12th round my way that did have the usual tricolours and gaa tops on it that got burnt to the ground on the 11th morning by ones from the falls rd. Now I hazard a guess but the chances are the ones responsable were from nationalist / republican backgrounds, if this was the case, did they remove the tricolours etc before they burnt the bonfire or did they just chuck a petrol bomb and burn thier own flag along with it.

jank

Hayte wrote: »

Why on earth would you want to burn remembrance poppies? So you can smell the freedom wafting from the embers or something?

Beyond that, why would you then take a picture of yourself burning remembrance poppies and then post it on a massive social networking site on the run up to remembrance day?

The reason why I ask is because alot of people seem to think its enough that this sort of thing is (or should be) protected speech. I don't disagree but at least ask yourself why you are doing it and what you expect the reaction to it will be. Normally when I get an idea to do something in public, and I think alot of people will hate it and not find it funny? Well, I generally won't do that thing I was thinking about.

It doesn't matter if one finds it distasteful. I personally would not burn a flag or a poppy or whatever BUT that doesn't mean we should jail people that do be they did it in jest or for some political statement.

partyguinness

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

See above responses.

The point about posting similar comment before was a direct response to your suggestion that I was using emotive language. My language was calculated and measured. You have taken it up as emotive.

My comments about "puppets" was coherent enough for you to use in your following post i.e. (to paraphrase) puppet of the republican movement.

As for "obedience", then as a student of war, you understand perfectly what I am talking about. Obedience is fundamental to an army.

"unsubstantiated crap"- Oh dear, somebody needs to use less emotive language, you are not doing yourself any favours.

Derived nothing from my profile? Just a reminder:

a. You mentioned it
b. You mentioned my membership of a republican group

Then you proceeded to speculate as to my interest in my country and the Easter Lilly.

"Notice how I dervied nothing from your profile.." Are you actual serious? But you are correct, desparate is the word that springs to mind.

"Dull encounter"...interesting considering the great length you have gone to reply to my posts and the interest" in my profile. Rather surprising for someone who considers "our encounter" dull.

So, there we we have it folks, a 20-22 year old undergraduate who thinks they know it all and in a "prestigious" university no less (of course it is). There is something you don't see every day. There is a cure for that though, it's called reality. Take it from somebody who spent many years at university, you are never as smart as you think you are. But that is beside the point (but as you brought it up).

But, I do not see the relevance in that point. So what? This is not a general thread about war or the military. I do not see the relevance of that point anywhere.

That is a playground argument. I do not see where you have used your perceived knowledge to further you points unless "unsubstantiated crap" is a prominent term on your course.

Finally, you respond to my comment about ad hominen by saying that perhaps I should familiarise myself with the term, now that is mature.

Contradictory at best would best sum up your replies.

partyguinness

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

Interesting that you take that approach to the burning of a poppy, yet dismiss its role in modern British society as a "compulsion to wear pieces of plastic to feel better about themsleves and to ease their guilt for murdering thousands of their own citizens". Surely if this is your true belief then you have no real feeling of disdain towards anyone burning what you see as essentially a piece of plastic?After all, it is only easing my guilt (the son of two irish immigrants, yet proudly and firmly British all the same) and making me feel better about the thousands of murders you presumably are laying on my shoulders? Its either that of a subtle admittance of your own lack of intelligence, and I don't think you are really aiming for the latter with this post!

Firstly, do you disagree with this comment:

compulsion to wear pieces of plastic to feel better about themsleves and to ease their guilt for murdering thousands of their own citizens".

You have a habit of quoting me but not actually addressing the point in quotations.

Let's be clear. I have no personal objection to people wearing the Poppy. We live in a free and open democratic society and people can wear it if they so choose.

There is no contradiction in dimissing the role (perverted) of the Poppy in British society and respecting a person's right to wear one. They are two different concepts. Contrary to your assertion, I do not hold it disdain and I do not agree that a symbol (whether I agree with it or not) should be burned as it has meaning to people (again the fact I do not agree with it or the symbol means something very different to me is not relevant.

Just because I have a different outlook as regard the Poppy does not mean I agree or I am indifferent to people burning it. There is no contradiction as you seem to to imply.

MadsL

They called it desecration
Of the symbol that was meant to represent
The freedom of so called choice and dissent
They almost had me believing it
They were bleeding him
He said, "Burn baby, burn"
'Til the street samurai
Said to my face that
Any flag that's worth a shìt
Was woven from fire in the first place.


http://www.lyricsmania.com/lyrics/disposable_heroes_of_hiphoprisy_the_lyrics_13681/hypocrisy_is_the_greatest_luxury_lyrics_41297/satanic_reverses_lyrics_446979.html

Fratton Fred

partyguinness wrote: »

The point about posting similar comment before was a direct response to your suggestion that I was using emotive language. My language was calculated and measured. You have taken it up as emotive.

My comments about "puppets" was coherent enough for you to use in your following post i.e. (to paraphrase) puppet of the republican movement.

As for "obedience", then as a student of war, you understand perfectly what I am talking about. Obedience is fundamental to an army.

"unsubstantiated crap"- Oh dear, somebody needs to use less emotive language, you are not doing yourself any favours.

Derived nothing from my profile? Just a reminder:

a. You mentioned it
b. You mentioned my membership of a republican group

Then you proceeded to speculate as to my interest in my country and the Easter Lilly.

"Notice how I dervied nothing from your profile.." Are you actual serious? But you are correct, desparate is the word that springs to mind.

"Dull encounter"...interesting considering the great length you have gone to reply to my posts and the interest" in my profile. Rather surprising for someone who considers "our encounter" dull.

So, there we we have it folks, a 20-22 year old undergraduate who thinks they know it all and in a "prestigious" university no less (of course it is). There is something you don't see every day. There is a cure for that though, it's called reality. Take it from somebody who spent many years at university, you are never as smart as you think you are. But that is beside the point (but as you brought it up).

But, I do not see the relevance in that point. So what? This is not a general thread about war or the military. I do not see the relevance of that point anywhere.

That is a playground argument. I do not see where you have used your perceived knowledge to further you points unless "unsubstantiated crap" is a prominent term on your course.

Finally, you respond to my comment about ad hominen by saying that perhaps I should familiarise myself with the term, now that is mature.

Contradictory at best would best sum up your replies.

I can understand to an extent what you are saying, but I think that being not only a "foreigner", but also one brought up on a diet of anti Britishness, you are probably hyper sensitive to it.

It is easy in Ireland to consider the constant criticising of everything the British have ever done, the constant reminders of the famine (whilst ignoring the one 100 years earlier), all the shock and horror over the tans, whilst ignoring completely a far more devastating civil war etc etc to be a similar thing. It is the system trying to brainwash you that no matter how much you get shafted by the government, you shouldn't really complain because life could be a lot worse.

Batsy

woodoo wrote: »

A few teenagers were arrested for burning poppies in Coleraine.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-15563139

What about all the Irish Tri Colours burnt on the 12th of July in the same place and all over Northern Ireland.

Such Hypocrisy... or have i missed something??

Why should somebody be arrested for burning a foreign flag?

Fratton Fred

Prosecuting three teenagers for this does appear to be a bit extreme, although no memtion has been made of what the photo actually showed, or what comments were attached to it, so I will reserve judgement until that is known.

To me though, this does seem to be a waste of tax payers money and somewhat hypocritical.

Wolfe Tone

Oh look its Fred, with yet more attempts at trying to explain away his Empires bloodsoaked past.
Pathetic.

Fratton Fred

Batsy wrote: »

Why should somebody be arrested for burning a foreign flag?

The thing with burning a flag is that it isn't the act of burning it that is offensive, it is why it is being burnt.

People in NI burn tricolours purely and simply to offend nationalists.

gurramok

the_syco wrote: »

The poppy is to commemorate those who fell fighting the two wars. The reasons why they fought are no longer important, only how we remember them.

The poppy's funds are used to fund the welfare of the killers from the British Army of hundreds of civilians in NI, thats why its offensive. If it was only relevant to WWI and WWII and not for modern conflicts, it wouldn't really be an issue.

Fratton Fred

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Oh look its Fred, with yet more attempts at trying to explain away his Empires bloodsoaked past.
Pathetic.

How about you actually read my post.

Ellis Dee

seiphil wrote: »

Didn't even think it was a crime to burn a poppy. Joke!

But it is a crime to burn the stuff you can extract from poppies. ;)

partyguinness

partyguinness wrote: »

Well..you are certainly the conforming and and obedient type...good for you...:rolleyes:..proper cannon fodder

It says more about the fragile and insecure ego of the British that they feel this compulsion to wear pieces of plastic to feel better about themsleves and to ease their guilt for murdering thousands of their own citizens. Plus it keeps support for current Army high and dissent muted. Sad for you that you are a puppet in the game and cannot see it.

I find it quite pitiful and somewaht disrespectful to the actual dead who were slaughtered in their thousand's for NOTHING....but you can't admit that can you?

It was state sanctioned murder on a disgusting and unprecedented scale (on all sides I hasten to add). The British just cannot stomach that fact and they hide behind this poppy charade.

It is pathetic.

ps Quoting? Churchill said a lot of things and was a failure of a politician...but again if it makes you feel better...good for you.

I am actually giving ther British too much credit. Most I meet (sorry everyone I have met) look at me with blank faces when I ask what WW1 was about...the propaganda has worked. I live in England.

It's attitudes like this which are the reason that ROI has never been able to defend itself, will never be able to defend itself and is lucky to be around today.

Wolfe Tone

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Oh look its Fred, with yet more attempts at trying to explain away his Empires bloodsoaked past.
Pathetic.

How about you actually read my post.

I have... moaning about anti britishness and a hint of famine revisionism... typical fare although the 'tans werent that bad, look at the civil war' is a new one.

BlastedGlute

Sitting in Norn-Iron now, oooohh their burning tricolours all over the place, and don't ya know they have the actual first shot paratroopers from bloody Sunday on a big billboard saying hometown heroes. Oh they love their murder and flag burning up here oooohhhhhhh!

stay down south were we can procrastinate letting it go and moving on but never really doing so and always finding an excuse to dredge emotions that don't belong to us as individuals but are instead burdened upon us due to the muck sod we happened to spring our mothers womb on all those years ago. Yeah look what they did to "us" padraig, "was that literally to us though, like me and you??" well no it wasn't was it.

I think this might explain why I cringe every time a football discussion is verbalised with "we beat ye the last day, oh yeah WE beat YE" as though the conversationalists were actually present in kit and boots kicking the ball of destiny. No, it's a projection of yourself into a situation that had no part in and no affect upon. You are as Irish as your passport, until you get a green card for the US, then eventually citizenship and then suddenly you like to think of yourself as a man of the world,you not recognise borders between allies etc etc blah blah blah

I've slept for little over an hour in the last 24 so excuse the wealth of arrogance but I'm bored of this. I'm young and want to change the record, so sue me.

Fratton Fred

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I have... moaning about anti britishness and a hint of famine revisionism... typical fare although the 'tans werent that bad, look at the civil war' is a new one.

What I wrote is very much relevant as a response to a post.

Yours is just trolling.

anymore

BlastedGlute wrote: »

Sitting in Norn-Iron now, oooohh their burning tricolours all over the place, and don't ya know they have the actual first shot paratroopers from bloody Sunday on a big billboard saying hometown heroes. Oh they love their murder and flag burning up here oooohhhhhhh!

stay down south were we can procrastinate letting it go and moving on but never really doing so and always finding an excuse to dredge emotions that don't belong to us as individuals but are instead burdened upon us due to the muck sod we happened to spring our mothers womb on all those years ago. Yeah look what they did to "us" padraig, "was that literally to us though, like me and you??" well no it wasn't was it.

I think this might explain why I cringe every time a football discussion is verbalised with "we beat ye the last day, oh yeah WE beat YE" as though the conversationalists were actually present in kit and boots kicking the ball of destiny. No, it's a projection of yourself into a situation that had no part in and no affect upon. You are as Irish as your passport, until you get a green card for the US, then eventually citizenship and then suddenly you like to think of yourself as a man of the world,you not recognise borders between allies etc etc blah blah blah

I've slept for little over an hour in the last 24 so excuse the wealth of arrogance but I'm bored of this. I'm young and want to change the record, so sue me.

Just out of curiosity, if you are ' bored of this' then why waste time posting on the thread ?

anymore

I wonder if there have been any arrests for burning of the US flags ?

bobbysands81

prettygurrly wrote: »

those poppies represent not only english but the many thousands of irish that fought in WWI. I for one am very proud of the men that fought for me.

Burning tri-colours is totally different, it only represents one country, one nationality. Poppies are not political. It's a disgrace.

Poppies represent casualties from only one Army, the British one and, as such, they are a political symbol.

BlastedGlute

anymore wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, if you are ' bored of this' then why waste time posting on the thread ?

I didn't say bored of this thread, I meant the discussion which lay afoot(seeing as its drifted from the poppy)

^^ guy above, is your name actually bobby sands? I'm not being funny I'm gennely curious.

Also, don't you think it's hilarious that whenever a protest in Iran is happening they always have a few stars and stripes flags laying about to set on fire haha. Maybe I could start a business up here selling "E-Z Burn tri-colours" for all your nationalist needs!

anymore

The poppy also represents all those soldiers who set up, organised and ran the conecentration camps in South Africa during the Boer war in which over 20,000 innocent women and children died. The supporters of the Poppy are rather shy about the heroism invloved in this act of mass murder. This is the reality of hero worshiping the soldiers who made British Imperialism possible.
MNo doubt the Nazis were inspired by these camps.
By the way, after the World War, the British courts ordered compensation to be paid to German arms maunufacturers Krupps for thier technology which was used by UK arms manufacturers during the war. They based the payments on rough calculations of how many would have been killed by the relevant artillery shells.
If you want to honour the heroes of the first world War, honour those who refused to fight.

getz

the great war 35,000 irish soldies died, in 1923, 150000 poppies were sold within a few days in the irish free state,yet the IRA murdered at least 200 ex servicemen between 1919-1922, www.greatwar.ie/postwar.html

anymore

getz wrote: »

the great war 35,000 irish soldies died, in 1923, 150000 poppies were sold within a few days in the irish free state,yet the IRA murdered at least 200 ex servicemen between 1919-1922, www.greatwar.ie/postwar.html

And how many ex irish British army soldiers served in the IRA ?

getz

anymore wrote: »

And how many ex irish British army soldiers served in the IRA ?

there would be quite a few but the IRA was also the enemy of the free state ,and was the cause of the deaths of more irishmen and woman, in the early years of independance than the british,

BlastedGlute

I don't even what your talking about anymore.

maccored

prettygurrly wrote: »

i didn't say i thought it was ok...i was saying its a totally different kettle of fish and therefore not hypocrisy.

dont agree with burning anyone's flag! they should have been arrested for burning the flag true

I thought the poppy was representative of any war the british empire/army was in? Its basically just for british army personnel - I thought anyway.

Plus in your post you didnt mention anything about hypocrisy. You said its OK to burn the irish flag as it only represented one country whereas the poppy represented some Irish people as well.

Personally i reckon all killing is murder (or so Ive read round these parts) so therefore the poppy just glorifies terrorism and murder and should be burnt as much as possible.

Glassheart

Batsy wrote: »

Why should somebody be arrested for burning a foreign flag?

For the same reason these lads got arrested.A supposed incitement to hatred.
If the PSNI intend on pursuing this with any consistency then i can only imagine the N.I. courts will be very busy next July during super-prod season:

Fratton Fred

anymore wrote: »

The poppy also represents all those soldiers who set up, organised and ran the conecentration camps in South Africa during the Boer war in which over 20,000 innocent women and children died. The supporters of the Poppy are rather shy about the heroism invloved in this act of mass murder. This is the reality of hero worshiping the soldiers who made British Imperialism possible.
MNo doubt the Nazis were inspired by these camps.
By the way, after the World War, the British courts ordered compensation to be paid to German arms maunufacturers Krupps for thier technology which was used by UK arms manufacturers during the war. They based the payments on rough calculations of how many would have been killed by the relevant artillery shells.
If you want to honour the heroes of the first world War, honour those who refused to fight.

No it doesn't and besides, I doubt too many Boer war soldiers are left.

getz

maccored wrote: »

I thought the poppy was representative of any war the british empire/army was in? Its basically just for british army personnel - I thought anyway.

Plus in your post you didnt mention anything about hypocrisy. You said its OK to burn the irish flag as it only represented one country whereas the poppy represented some Irish people as well.

Personally i reckon all killing is murder (or so Ive read round these parts) so therefore the poppy just glorifies terrorism and murder and should be burnt as much as possible.

poppy was first used by the romans as a offering to the deceased, also christianity used the red poppy to symbolize death and resurrection, some countries that use the poppy australia,barbados,bermuda,canada,india,mauritius,new zealand,south africa U K, northern ireland, U S A,hong kong,sri lanka,in countries like belgium its the national flower,

dlofnep

Utter hypocrisy arresting these lads. Whatever happened to free speech?

ardmacha

This thread is going all over the place. Nobody disputes that the burning of poppies in this case was in bad taste. The focus of the thread should be on whether there is hypocrisy in NI in that equally offensive acts are routinely ignored. The court case may have resulted from threats after the event or other Facebook interactions, but the reporting of the event is that the burning of a paper poppy is something that the police and media should take an interest in, when in fact it is teenagers acting the maggot.