misleading prices on websites

fl4pj4ck

here's the story: I've been looking for hosting and found a nice offer here: http://www.letshost.ie/
It says e4.95/month, which I was happy with. When I proceeded with the order, the price came up as e4.95 but only when prepaying for a year, a monthly price came up to e7.30, which I found a bit misleading. Then, after filling some more details the price came up for a second time, this time with VAT being added, up to a total of e9.56 which was twice as much as the price I started with.

I checked two more companies, (http://hosting.digiweb.ie/website-hosting/business-linux/ and http://www.blacknight.com) and guess what I found? Again, VAT not added.

I find it at least disturbing that something which is clearly marketed as a personal service doesn't have VAT added, (not to mention sneaky practices by LetsHost). Is there anything that can be done to force them to present real prices on website before making an order?

(also, I will be gratefull if anyone can point me to a proper board for hosting related questions)

murraykil

If you are using state benefits to pay for the hosting then this board is perfect.

fl4pj4ck

murraykil wrote: »

If you are using state benefits to pay for the hosting then this board is perfect.

darn, had Consumer Issues opened in another tab thanks for pointing that out, reporting to mods to move it

murraykil

fl4pj4ck wrote: »

darn, had Consumer Issues opened in another tab thanks for pointing that out, reporting to mods to move it

It's not really a consumer issue either. It's common practice in business to business trade to quote prices excluding VAT and these hosting sites might see other businesses as their main target market. Businesses won't necessarily pay tax upfront.

tricky D

fl4pj4ck wrote: »

I find it at least disturbing that something which is clearly marketed as a personal service doesn't have VAT added,

They are certainly not personal services. The vast majority of domains and hosting are for professional purposes.

fl4pj4ck

LetsHost:


Blacknight:


Digiweb:

They are certainly not personal services. The vast majority of domains and hosting are for professional purposes.

really?

fl4pj4ck

murraykil wrote: »

It's not really a consumer issue either. It's common practice in business to business trade to quote prices excluding VAT and these hosting sites might see other businesses as their main target market. Businesses won't necessarily pay tax upfront.

I'm sorry, but all of them as advertised as for "Personal use", see pics for reference

not to mention, that Ireland is the only country I found to not include VAT for hosting on their main page

tricky D

fl4pj4ck wrote: »

really?

Yes, really.

You list the cheapest, most basic packages only, most of which state business, shop or SME and the last one has 50 email addresses which is an awful lot for just a personal offering.

Take a look at some random domains like ones recently lapsed http://dropped.ie/, how many are personal? None when I had a look.

fl4pj4ck

tricky D wrote: »

Yes, really.

You list the cheapest, most basic packages only, most of which state business, shop or SME and the last one has 50 email addresses which is an awful lot for just a personal offering.

Take a look at some random domains like ones recently lapsed http://dropped.ie/, how many are personal? None when I had a look.

I can clearly see "Personal use" in all three cases here, don't you? And one more thing: can you show me ONE hosting company, located in EU, that doesn't include VAT in their pricing, and doesn't say it's not included until you are actually almost placed an order?

It's false advertisement, and want to do something about it.

100% hosting companies I dealt with so far include VAT in their pricing, but you're eliglible to claim it back once you prove you are entitled to it (i.e. hand over the VAT no). Ireland is the first country I found to do exactly opposite.

And before you ask, at the moment I'm a client of several different companies (ovh, fehosting, copahost, buyvm, securedragon, cheetahhost, altushost and site5) and guess what? All of them included VAT in their initial offer (well, all of them located in EU)

tricky D

Pointless engaging with you. Too trollish and poorly informed. Go write an angry letter to your local dole office TD. I'm sure they'll be as concerned as you are.

fl4pj4ck

No facts and personal attacks. How very mature of you.

dudara

Moved to Consumer Issues

dudara

dudara

murraykil and tricky D Making smart comments about State Benefits is not on.

dudara

whippet

i'd imagine the vast majority of these hosting company's customers are business users who are really only interested in the ex VAT pricing so it would suit them to quote this as the headline price.

It isn't false advertising and I am sure any complaint that you make wouldn't force any change in this.

BTW, I really hope you are not a frequent flyer .. the pricing on some airline website would really do your head in !!!!

BrianD

fl4pj4ck wrote: »

I can clearly see "Personal use" in all three cases here, don't you? And one more thing: can you show me ONE hosting company, located in EU, that doesn't include VAT in their pricing, and doesn't say it's not included until you are actually almost placed an order?

It's false advertisement, and want to do something about it.

100% hosting companies I dealt with so far include VAT in their pricing, but you're eliglible to claim it back once you prove you are entitled to it (i.e. hand over the VAT no). Ireland is the first country I found to do exactly opposite.

And before you ask, at the moment I'm a client of several different companies (ovh, fehosting, copahost, buyvm, securedragon, cheetahhost, altushost and site5) and guess what? All of them included VAT in their initial offer (well, all of them located in EU)

All of the examples that you point to have indicated that there pricing is "from" the price quoted.

The majority of users will more than likely be business users. They all aim at international markets to where some customers may have different VAT obligations.

fl4pj4ck

In all cases it clearly states it's a personal service, therefore I'd assume VAT should be included.

Nobody commented on the other thing: Letshost gives you e3.95 on their main page, but nowhere is the information about the fact that you have to pay for a year upfront, orelse the price is e9.65/month.

Nobody else think it's disturbing to company to charge twice as much as price advertised?

edit:

The majority of users will more than likely be business users. They all aim at international markets to where some customers may have different VAT obligations.

As mentioned earlier, Ireland looks to be the only country in the world doing this. That's why I think there must be something wrong here.

murraykil

I still don't think it's the big issue you do.

LetsHost for example does say, "From e3.95 / month" and "Personal and Business Use".

The use of the word "From" is common in price displays as a company likes to show their lowest prices. You see it with phone contracts all the time, iPhone from e0, (but you have to pay e100 a month for 3 years or something like that), else the phone will cost you e500.

As for the VAT not being included, that's just annoying as a private customer, but I would guess, despite it including "Personal" in there, that business consumers are their main market and would thus be used to seeing prices without VAT.

You would be better off spending your time looking for hosting at a value which you think is better. Unfortunately I think recommending hosts is not allowed on here (Tech Forums).

fl4pj4ck

It's also a common practice to put signs "No refunds" in the shops, yet it's against Irish Consumer law. It doesn't stop people from putting that sign in the shop though, but effectively it's rendering them invalid.

aidan_walsh

Its either this or someone ranting that they went for the cheaper looking option because the "non-Personal" packages didn't include VAT up front and they got slapped with it later on. Consistency is the better option for like for like comparisons.

dudara

Taken from the NCA website

Tax inclusive pricesShops have to display prices that are "complete" and "tax inclusive". This means the price on display must include all taxes and not have any extra "hidden" charges.

If the price doesn't include Value Added Tax (VAT), for example, they are misleading consumers and in breach of consumer legislation. In the case of certain invoices such as telephone and electricity bills, the VAT may be shown separately.

In general, service providers are not legally required to display their prices or charges. But when they choose to do so, they must give the final price, inclusive of taxes and charges.

Guy:Incognito

fl4pj4ck wrote: »

It's also a common practice to put signs "No refunds" in the shops, yet it's against Irish Consumer law. It doesn't stop people from putting that sign in the shop though, but effectively it's rendering them invalid.

I havnt seen one of those anywhere in a long time. They can put up signs sayign things like no refunds on non faulty goods etc. Your not entitled to a refund just because you want one if theres not something wrong with what you bought.

Any I have seen include a line like " this does not affect your statutory rights" meaning they wont contravene them and will give you one of refund, replace , repair when necessary.

fl4pj4ck

Every shop I know use this sign when having a promotion and/or items are being discounted.

RoboRat

Every shop I know use this sign when having a promotion and/or items are being discounted.

That is in regards to buying an item and then bringing it back if you don't like it - this is entirely different to consumer law. A lot of stores (especially clothing stores) allow you to buy something and take it home and try it on with other clothes and if you don't like it they will refund it - this is at the discretion of the store and not mandatory. They usually rescind this during sale periods as they just want rid of stock and not have people taking it for a few days only to bring it back.

If on the other hand you buy something that is faulty or not of merchantable quality, they must Repair, Replace or Refund - this is a right and no sign or disclaimer can affect this right.

BrianD

fl4pj4ck wrote: »

In all cases it clearly states it's a personal service, therefore I'd assume VAT should be included.

All state clearly FROM the price quoted and that they are suited for both personal and business use apart from the Digiweb one.

Nobody commented on the other thing: Letshost gives you e3.95 on their main page, but nowhere is the information about the fact that you have to pay for a year upfront, orelse the price is e9.65/month.

Nobody else think it's disturbing to company to charge twice as much as price advertised?

If you've figured it out then it's not a problem. It's a service. There are deals. Again the "from" word is used.

As mentioned earlier, Ireland looks to be the only country in the world doing this. That's why I think there must be something wrong here.

Depends on the taxation regimes in other countries. Also many of the hosting services here are aimed internationally.

BrianD

dudara wrote: »

Taken from the NCA website

That seems to apply to bricks and mortar stores only. I can't see any definite references to online trading.

Also from the same guide:

"One exception to this "tax inclusive" rule is a business selling goods intended mainly for other business customers, such as a "trade only" electrical distributor, or a cash and carry which says that it is "trade only". These kinds of businesses are allowed to show prices that exclude the VAT element."

I would be of the view that web hosting is mainly a B2B activity.

dudara

The thing is, they don't say that they are "Trade Only".

BrianD

dudara wrote: »

The thing is, they don't say that they are "Trade Only".

Yes but the NCA bumpf appears to refer only to bricks and mortar retailers.

As has been pointed out in my posts all of the pricing on the various web hosters state "from". Perfectly legit. Plus they are international businesses.

Airlines use the same approach.

cast_iron

dudara wrote: »

The thing is, they don't say that they are "Trade Only".

It doesn't have to. That's merely an example, which the phrase "such as" makes clear.
According to the NCA, the criteria is "a business selling goods intended mainly for other business customers".
I would imagine that would be the defence these websites would argue.

MOH

It's a pretty standard way of advertising services for any supplier that deals with large amounts of B2B as well as B2C.

They all clearly state 'from xx per month', and that they're for personal or business use.

There's a fairly straightforward way of getting the service at the cheapest rate, by being a business and buying a 12 month package ex VAT.

They say the service is suitable for personal and business use, but don't claim anywhere that personal customers can get the cheapest rate.

maxer68

I have hosting in UK and Germany. I checked various companies in both countries and escb and every one of them quoted ex vat pricing without exception.