Task force proposal to sort traffic ‘debacle’

leonidas83

http://www.galwaynews.ie/22497-task-force-proposal-sort-traffic-%E2%80%98debacle%E2%80%99

Highlights the joke our city council has become, operating in very difficult trading times, these guys are making a bad situation worse for the cities businesses

Iwannahurl

Galway Chamber set up a traffic and transportation forum a while back. It was just a talking shop really, and fizzled out AFAIK.

IMO, Galway is choked by car traffic because of an accumulation of policies which, over decades, promoted private car use as a door-to-door mode of transport, even into the heart of the city.

Galway Chamber have long favoured more use of private cars and have resisted attempts to change the status quo.

Mr Coyle said there is a very delicate balance to be struck between promoting alternatives to the car but “there is a tipping point” and if the anti-car measures go too far, there is a danger “people who want, need, prefer or like to use the car”, will do their shopping in places that welcome cars.

Emphasis added. Source: http://www.galwaynews.ie/11158-traders-fear-pedestrian-only-area-could-drive-away-business




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leonidas83

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Galway Chamber set up a traffic and transportation forum a while back. It was just a talking shop really, and fizzled out AFAIK.

IMO, Galway is choked by car traffic because of an accumulation of policies which, over decades, promoted private car use as a door-to-door mode of transport, even into the heart of the city.

Galway Chamber have long favoured more use of private cars and have resisted attempts to change the status quo.

Mr Coyle said there is a very delicate balance to be struck between promoting alternatives to the car but “there is a tipping point” and if the anti-car measures go too far, there is a danger “people who want, need, prefer or like to use the car”, will do their shopping in places that welcome cars.

Emphasis added. Source: http://www.galwaynews.ie/11158-traders-fear-pedestrian-only-area-could-drive-away-business




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But this isnt just about an over dependence on cars, the council have made a litany of mistakes around the area of traffic in this city and continue to do so. There is no accountabilty and they seem to continue without proper consultation with the public. This needs to be highlighted and addressed.

Every city in this country has a heavy car ownership but per head this in my opinion is by far the worst city for traffic. The council in this city are a thundering disgrace

Aiel

I see your back "Iwannahurl" pushing your basically anti-car opinion again.Its all about opinion's here though so your entitled to yours.You'll no doubt again state your case for "Better Urban/Spacial Planning etc".Thats very good in theory but its just too late for that now though,the horse has well and truly bolted on that front.The fact is the Council built 1000's of houses on the West side of the city while plenty of big business's set up on the East side of the city.Nothing wrong with that though per say,what is wrong is that they didnt plan/account for how would people "get" across the city to and from work etc.Bus Corridors(Seamus Quirke Rd) wont do it in my opinion-there'll be a big line of traffic on 1 lane and on the other a half empty bus will pass every 15 minutes.There's no Light Rail.So that leaves the option of a by-pass with a 5th bridge-very badly needed.Cork has its Tunnel,so does Limerick now,Waterford has a by-pass-watch those cities grow in the next few years and watch Galway get even more choked and suffocated on itself.Business's like Medtronic expanded here in recent years when they seen the infrastructure being built linking different cities and airports etc(N18,N6 etc).How long more will they stick around when they see the infrastructure of the city itself not able to cope.

Iwannahurl

Whether you like it or not, there are several national and local policies and strategies endorsing approaches to managing traffic and reducing car dependence. That's not opinion, it's fact.

One key problem has been the lack of implementation of such strategies, and well as the pursuit of policies and practices tending to do the exact opposite ("a litany of mistakes"), and one source of adverse resistance in that regard has been the business community, eg Galway Chamber, IMO.

what_traffic

Would not agree with Chamber re their opposition to the removal of the N6 Roundabout's but would agree with Mr. Coyle statement on the project management side.

“This keeps happening. Fundamental mistakes are being made in terms of project planning and project management. There is a litany of missed deadlines on roadworks and infrastructural projects.
It beggars belief. You just cannot believe a timeframe suggested by city officials on roadworks,” said Mr Coyle.

Sponge Bob

Anyway the sooner the bypass is built the better and all the rest of these roadworks is sticking plaster flummery and a bloody nuisance....both.

snubbleste

swine

Ban the opinion of those without automobiles.

Robbo

I see where this is going to go, and would like to lampshade it...

Sponge Bob

I'll give short odds that no cyclist will be appointed to this taskforce. Calm down everybody.

what_traffic

Sponge Bob wrote: »

I'll give short odds that no cyclist will be appointed to this taskforce. Calm down everybody.

Why? Maybe because there are no traffic jams when your on the bike?

irishdude11

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Galway Chamber set up a traffic and transportation forum a while back. It was just a talking shop really, and fizzled out AFAIK.

IMO, Galway is choked by car traffic because of an accumulation of policies which, over decades, promoted private car use as a door-to-door mode of transport, even into the heart of the city.

Galway Chamber have long favoured more use of private cars and have resisted attempts to change the status quo.

Mr Coyle said there is a very delicate balance to be struck between promoting alternatives to the car but “there is a tipping point” and if the anti-car measures go too far, there is a danger “people who want, need, prefer or like to use the car”, will do their shopping in places that welcome cars.

Emphasis added. Source: http://www.galwaynews.ie/11158-traders-fear-pedestrian-only-area-could-drive-away-business
.

Galway is nearly 1000 years old, it has inherent traffic problems that have nothing to do with the use of private cars and everything to do with a "Medieval" road layout. This has been compounded in the last 20 years by all the badly planned development as Aiel pointed out.

The routes are very badly laid out, which is down to the city being 1000 years old, putting on extra busses or giving some busses priority at some junctions is is like putting a band-aid on an axe wound.

In any case the public transport system is simply not an option for a huge proportion of people because the bus doesn't go their workplace or they will have to get multiple busses to get there and it will take them 2 hours.

The city center of Galway is very small relative to other similarily sized cities which is also another inherent problem that cannot be fixed and leads to traffic jams.

There is no fixing the traffic problems in Galway bar a major infrastructure investment such as a subway which is very very unlikely ever to happen.

Iwannahurl

what_traffic wrote: »

Would not agree with Chamber re their opposition to the removal of the N6 Roundabout's but would agree with Mr. Coyle statement on the project management side.

Fair enough. IIRC the Council officials may have referred to support for the N6 project as being a "leap of faith". There's got to be a limit to the size of leap they expect people to take. You have to wonder sometimes how many of the cock-ups are due to bad faith rather than mere bad judgement.

Iwannahurl

irishdude11 wrote: »

Galway is nearly 1000 years old, it has inherent traffic problems that have nothing to do with the use of private cars and everything to do with a "Medieval" road layout. This has been compounded in the last 20 years by all the badly planned development as Aiel pointed out.

The routes are very badly laid out, which is down to the city being 1000 years old, putting on extra busses or giving some busses priority at some junctions is is like putting a band-aid on an axe wound.

In any case the public transport system is simply not an option for a huge proportion of people because the bus doesn't go their workplace or they will have to get multiple busses to get there and it will take them 2 hours.

The city center of Galway is very small relative to other similarily sized cities which is also another inherent problem that cannot be fixed and leads to traffic jams.

There is no fixing the traffic problems in Galway bar a major infrastructure investment such as a subway which is very very unlikely ever to happen.

What, are you suggesting Galway City had traffic congestion for 980 years and then extremely bad traffic congestion ever after?

Here's just one example of a development that had a significant impact on traffic generation in the city centre: tax reliefs for multi-storey car parks. Luckily the likes of Charlie McCreevy didn't begin their Colossus-like stride across the Irish political landscape until the late 20th century, rather than in 1484.

PennyLane88

Im sick to death of the traffic in Galway - but 'cycling' isnt the solution - i lives miles away from work, and not to mention the weather etc, plus cyclists dont seem to ever obey the rules of the road (cycling on a busy footpath always bugs me but here is not the place to rant about that )

But someone with the proper experience and qualifications should be put in charge of the traffic mgmt and infrastructure in Galway, we need light rail and a tunnel.

harryd2

irishdude11 wrote: »

it has inherent traffic problems that have nothing to do with the use of private cars

mmmm
Anyway, EU plan to ban private cars from city centre's by 2050.
Until then lets hope for a bypass to keep the gas guzzlers outta town.
Hopefully some of us will be around see the ban

galwaycyclist

PennyLane88 wrote: »

But someone with the proper experience and qualifications should be put in charge of the traffic mgmt and infrastructure in Galway, we need light rail and a tunnel.

Now there is an interesting observation. The Galway Transportation Unit was set up to provide a means for bringing such expertise into the city.

Curiously the job of head of the GTU was then given to Joe Tansey an existing city council engineer whose previous career was spent creating the traffic choked mess the city now finds itself in. Furthermore as I understand it, the GTU is staffed almost entirely by roads engineers rather than people with the range of skills that might normally be applied to such a challenge (demand management, behavioural change, public transport etc)

Interesting questions to be asked by this task force might be how was the position of GTU head filled? Was it advertised openly and internationally in recognised journals? Was there any competition for the position? Was there a transparent interview process? How was the job description for the position drafted? How does it compare to the descriptions for similar positions elsewhere?

Ex Bouncer

The roundabout at Parkmore is being replaced with intelligent lights like the system deployed at Moneenageisha. I dont travel through Moneenageisha anymore as I dont have that much spare time. I do have to travel through Parkmore as I work there. Im just going to have to get a new job.

Discodog

The obvious immediate answer is Park & Ride. Anyone who has visited Oxford, in the UK, will of seen the benefit - I seem to recall that the Council made a visit. It would need 3 carparks West, East & North with the buses running a circular route every 10 minutes. To work it has to be a cheaper & quicker than a car for entering & staying in town.

Cleahaigh

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Now there is an interesting observation. The Galway Transportation Unit was set up to provide a means for bringing such expertise into the city.

Curiously the job of head of the GTU was then given to Joe Tansey an existing city council engineer whose previous career was spent creating the traffic choked mess the city now finds itself in. Furthermore as I understand it, the GTU is staffed almost entirely by roads engineers rather than people with the range of skills that might normally be applied to such a challenge (demand management, behavioural change, public transport etc)

Interesting questions to be asked by this task force might be how was the position of GTU head filled? Was it advertised openly and internationally in recognised journals? Was there any competition for the position? Was there a transparent interview process? How was the job description for the position drafted? How does it compare to the descriptions for similar positions elsewhere?

In what way did Joe Tansey 'create' the traffic choked mess? Detailed specifics please.

Robbo

Iwannahurl wrote: »

What, are you suggesting Galway City had traffic congestion for 980 years and then extremely bad traffic congestion ever after?

Here's just one example of a development that had a significant impact on traffic generation in the city centre: tax reliefs for multi-storey car parks. Luckily the likes of Charlie McCreevy didn't begin their Colossus-like stride across the Irish political landscape until the late 20th century, rather than in 1484.

Interesting find about the tax reliefs on multi-storey carparks. Were any built in Galway under this scheme? I can't remember if we had any designated "urban renewal" schemes that it would fall under, and according to the Dept of Finance in that link "This scheme does not appear to have taken off to any degree."

Perhaps you could link us to some schemes in Galway that took advantage of this incentive?

galwaycyclist

Cleahaigh wrote: »

In what way did Joe Tansey 'create' the traffic choked mess? Detailed specifics please.

Roundabouts, one way streets, narrow stacking lanes at junctions, cycle "facilities" that systematically remove priority from and impede cyclists, the use of "traffic calming" based on squeezing cyclists and cars together at pinch points, removing the zebra crossings from eyre square, using traffic light crossings in a manner that appears intended to manage pedestrians for the benefit of motor traffic, innapropriate traffic lane widths viz the Renmore bus corridor phase 1, slip roads, banned turns, left filters at traffic lights, innapropriate kerb radii at t-junctions.

I'll think of a few more later

Sponge Bob

And then Joe ate his Breakfast and went to a Council meeting to tell the assembled councillors how much better his plan would work.

There was IIRC his genius idea for National Bike Week last year...where nobody was consulted.

galwaycyclist

Cleahaigh wrote: »

In what way did Joe Tansey 'create' the traffic choked mess? Detailed specifics please.

Dinner over thought of another one, bus stop layouts that remove priority,from buses and give it to cars.

Iwannahurl

PennyLane88 wrote: »

we need light rail and a tunnel.

Preferably one with light at the end of it.

irishdude11

Iwannahurl wrote: »

What, are you suggesting Galway City had traffic congestion for 980 years and then extremely bad traffic congestion ever after?

Here's just one example of a development that had a significant impact on traffic generation in the city centre: tax reliefs for multi-storey car parks. Luckily the likes of Charlie McCreevy didn't begin their Colossus-like stride across the Irish political landscape until the late 20th century, rather than in 1484.

Yes that is what Im suggesting, that traffic has been backed up since 1000AD....ffs, you know the point Im making, the road layout in Galway is brutal because the city is so old. There has been zero planning regarding the roads in Galway because they have been around before the notion of planning even existed, duh, and the roads are just not able to handle the level of traffic that exists nowadays. And the problem has really compounded in the last 15 years due to the rapid growth of the city, the fastest growing city in Europe at one stage.

Go to Canada/US/Australia and observe the road layouts in citys that are relatively young, a completely different ball game. Look at them on Google Maps and then look at the state of Galway's laughable road layout. I have been in major citys abroad with much denser populations than Galway and they have next to zero traffic problems in rush hour. Because they are well laid out, which makes for much more efficient use by cars and which makes it possible to provide good public transport, and they dont have retarded development with a much higher % of the houses on one side of a river while most of the jobs are on the other side. Galway is like a textbook case of how not to develop a city and its road network, hence the traffic disaster.

Of the people I know in galway who take a car to work, they take it because they have to, they have no choice in the matter if they want to keep their jobs. You can whinge about car owners all you like but replacing a few roundabouts and creating a few token priority bus lanes is going to make f-all difference to the traffic flow in Galway.

Iwannahurl

Robbo wrote: »

Interesting find about the tax reliefs on multi-storey carparks. Were any built in Galway under this scheme? I can't remember if we had any designated "urban renewal" schemes that it would fall under, and according to the Dept of Finance in that link "This scheme does not appear to have taken off to any degree."

Perhaps you could link us to some schemes in Galway that took advantage of this incentive?

You have me there!

If I dig up any info I'll post it here. In the meantime I'll assume that no multi-storey car-parks in Galway City were built under the scheme.

Even if not developed to avail of tax incentives, there are, according to Galway City Council, currently seven multi-storey car-parks with a total of 2634 spaces. Incidentally, this would increase to 4689 if the Ceannt Station development ever goes ahead as planned.

A parking strategy is badly needed as one important element of any coherent plan to tackle traffic congestion. Take Copenhagen, for example (warning 30Mb file):

Copenhagen started removing parking spaces from the city center in the 1960s, especially along Strøget Street—the main car-free retail corridor in the city. The total number of parking spaces in the inner city was reduced by 400 spaces from 3,100 to 2,720 between 1995 and 2000, through small reductions over time, while the network of pedestrian areas increased by 4,020 m2 in roughly the same period.

Apparently there are plans to increase the number of car parking spaces in Copenhagen, but at face value it seems as if Galway City in comparison has proportionately more spaces in the city centre.

McTigs

Aiel wrote: »

.Bus Corridors(Seamus Quirke Rd) wont do it in my opinion-there'll be a big line of traffic on 1 lane and on the other a half empty bus will pass every 15 minutes.

if people are happy to sit in traffic while a bus whizzes past them every 15 minutes going in their direction thats up to them, meanwhile anybody with any sense will already be at work.

i know three devoted car enthusiasts living and working on the no.9 route who have all switched to the bus cos, all things considered, it was just the more efficient option. The more bus corridors are opened the better the bus option becomes.

Iwannahurl

irishdude11 wrote: »

Yes that is what Im suggesting, that traffic has been backed up since 1000AD....ffs, you know the point Im making, the road layout in Galway is brutal because the city is so old. There has been zero planning regarding the roads in Galway because they have been around before the notion of planning even existed, duh, and the roads are just not able to handle the level of traffic that exists nowadays. And the problem has really compounded in the last 15 years due to the rapid growth of the city, the fastest growing city in Europe at one stage.

Go to Canada/US/Australia and observe the road layouts in citys that are relatively young, a completely different ball game. Look at them on Google Maps and then look at the state of Galway's laughable road layout. I have been in major citys abroad with much denser populations than Galway and they have next to zero traffic problems in rush hour. Because they are well laid out, which makes for much more efficient use by cars and which makes it possible to provide good public transport, and they dont have retarded development with a much higher % of the houses on one side of a river while most of the jobs are on the other side. Galway is like a textbook case of how not to develop a city and its road network, hence the traffic disaster.

Of the people I know in galway who take a car to work, they take it because they have to, they have no choice in the matter if they want to keep their jobs. You can whinge about car owners all you like but replacing a few roundabouts and creating a few token priority bus lanes is going to make f-all difference to the traffic flow in Galway.

I am not keen on looking to North America for inspiration as so much of their planning is based on inefficient use of space and massive car dependence.

There are cities in Europe that provide much better example. Consider the case of Ghent in Belgium, which is older than Galway City.

The city of Ghent has implemented a number of plans to counter its traffic problems. In 1993, the city introduced a bicycle plan to foster a cycling culture in the city. This entailed the development of cycling infrastructure, theft prevention measures and setting up a “bicycle unit” in the city administration. The city continues to expand the cycling network including some underpasses beneath bridges.

In 1997, Ghent launched its “Mobility Plan for the Inner City”. The ambitious endeavour to transform the city’s mobility structure faced major opposition from retailers and citizens in the early stages of the project. The main features of the plan were to free the city centre of through-traffic, create a large pedestrian zone, calm traffic by introducing speed limits of 30 km/h between the pedestrian area and parking route, and redesign streets and squares to make them more enjoyable for visitors and citizens. Recent surveys confirm that living and visiting Ghent has become far more pleasant than a decade ago.

See also: http://ec.europa.eu/environment/pubs/pdf/streets_people.pdf

Even closer to home, Oxford is another good example. Although traffic congestion has increased recently, they have still managed to keep their city centre relatively traffic free and reportedly the congestion has been kept at about the level it was in 2000.

Sponge Bob

These solutions may apply between The courthouse and the docks but right now cyclists are barred out of much of the city centre and are reduced to making anuisance of themselves at roundabouts or forced onto footpaths by overly narrow lanes at Moneenageisha.

There is nothing wrong with providing for cyclists once the Bypass is built and the key traffic removed, for now there is very little room and the cycling ban in the city centre should be lifted.