December Budget

Blowfish

WalterMitty wrote: »

thats just an average life , working long hours, not seeing those kids, stuck in massive negative equity, average food, essential health insurance as no medical card and sh1te public system, a pension that is a fraction of value of a public sector one etc etc.

In 2009, the average family income was €56k gross.

100k a year is not even close to an 'average' life.

Squall19

WalterMitty wrote: »

thats just an average life , working long hours, not seeing those kids, stuck in massive negative equity, average food, essential health insurance as no medical card and sh1te public system, a pension that is a fraction of value of a public sector one etc etc.

Average life :D

Someone has been watching too many american films.

That's a very privileged life.

We all have the same life as above, but we don't earn 100k plus a year, not even half that.

Sudsy86

WalterMitty wrote: »

not if they have a massive mortgage,childcare for several children, food/clothing/medical for several children etc, pay full value of your own pension, pay medical insurance, run two cars etc etc.

First thing that come to mind here is "Why eat bread when you can have cake"...

Sudsy86

Love how Noonan ask us not to worry that this is gonna be the toughest budget of the next 3to4 years...Sorry Micky but I hope you realise that the other 3 years of budgets are going to be cuts on top of this budget...

"Im just gonna hammer ye this year but reduce how much I hammer ye again next year and the year after..."

So Vat goes up 2% this year, 1.5% next year, 1% the year after and .5% the last year...Vat still ends up at 25% you idiot...

Im not gonna love you more for not increasing it 2% every year and an it could be worse mentality is not acceptable...

galway2007

fliball123 wrote: »

thats the point I was making that the gov have choice but continue to hammer tax payer

o ya sure the public sector workers dont pay tax
idiot or what?

ILikeBananas

Sudsy86 wrote: »

Love how Noonan ask us not to worry that this is gonna be the toughest budget of the next 3to4 years..

But probably the easiest for him. They've plucked all of the low hanging fruit. Capital Expenditure has been cut to the bone, the recruitment embargo is somewhat reducing the PS wage bill and and all of these new taxes have been introduced. In the future though he's going to have to go after the sacred cows:

Welfare (dole, pensions, rent allowance, children's allowance etc)
Income Tax rates
Public Sector Wages

By the time this government is up FG and Labour will be as unpopular as FF and the Greens.

Nody

galway2007 wrote: »

o ya sure the public sector workers dont pay tax
idiot or what?

Private employee makes 2k, pays 500 in tax every month. State gains 500.
PS worker makes 2k, pays 500 in tax every month. State losses 1500.

Clear enough? Not even going in on anything regarding disparities in benefits, salary or anything like that purely from a money in, money out set up for the state. Hence even if PS paid 100% tax it would still not improve the state's finances and fix the red hole at the bottom line.

Suryavarman

Squall19 wrote: »

They should up dirt tax to over 30%

Alot of greedy people about with huge savings.

Whats wrong with people having huge savings?

Sudsy86

ILikeBananas wrote: »

But probably the easiest for him. They've plucked all of the low hanging fruit. Capital Expenditure has been cut to the bone, the recruitment embargo is somewhat reducing the PS wage bill and and all of these new taxes have been introduced. In the future though he's going to have to go after the sacred cows:

Welfare (dole, pensions, rent allowance, children's allowance etc)
Income Tax rates
Public Sector Wages

By the time this government is up FG and Labour will be as unpopular as FF and the Greens.

The fact that cuts are gonna be made is widely known...Trying to sugar coat it with idiocy is just so annoying...

The government have a plan, they know what cuts they are gonna be making now and in 4years time(i know its an assumption)...Why not be honest with the country...If ppl knew what previsions they are gonna have to make in the next 4years then would that not makes things that slight bit easier...

Yes it would probably increase the number of ppl leaving the country
yes ppl are gonna hate the government for it

But at least ppl would know instead of sitting around wondering how much worse their lives are gonna get...

The only way ppl wont hate the government is if they resolve this issue magically tomorrow(unless they say "opps we just found 150billion we lost"

irishh_bob

WalterMitty wrote: »

VAT hits the poorest the hardest too , a regressive tax. So much for Labour looking after poor.

afaik , thier is no vat on food

Joe1919

n97 mini wrote: »

Don't mean to OT, but how will the site valuation tax work in the case where the home owner doesn't own the site, and the site may not be clearly de-marked.

For example, where a father has let his son build a one-off on the farm?

The position as regards whose liable for the present 'non principle private residence' tax is as outlined below and this might give you some indication of the thinking. I am in a slightly similar position myself (co-owner, non registered and not a 100% clear boundary).

'If there is an issue around who is liable, then regard should be had to the definition of owner in the Act, which is "a person . . . entitled to receive the rent of the property or, where the property is not let, would be so entitled if it were so let". Even in receivership, there is a person, legal or natural, who remains entitled to such income, and that is the person who is liable for the charge under the Act.'

https://www.nppr.ie/Faq.aspx#fk15

Lumbo

CPA still standing

Delighted.

The_Thing

Lumbo wrote: »

CPA still standing

Delighted.

Yeah, must be quite upsetting for all the armchair economists.

Hopefully the hacks at the Indo will be crying into their cornflakes tomorrow morning too.

murphaph

The_Thing wrote: »

Yeah, must be quite upsetting for all the armchair economists.

Hopefully the hacks at the Indo will be crying into their cornflakes tomorrow morning too.

Laugh all you want but slashing capital spending whilst protecting current spending (wages in the PS and social welfare payments mostly) will have a devastating effect on our children.

They will live in a country perpetually lagging behind in the infrastructure stakes which will find it harder and harder to attract the sort of knowledge based firms that we will need. Staff at such firms want quality of life associated with good urban infrastructure like metros and quality public spaces. Ireland will simply fall further behind here.

Similarly, reducing staff through natural attrition and not hiring new ones but rather "saving" money by nominally loading the remaining public servants with the extra work won't work as they are going at some point to be either unwilling or unable to take up the slack.

Class sizes will increase, rather than cutting pay by 10% and hiring the teachers needed. Children will endure a poorer education in a world of traffic and congestion, while Continental children enjoy the exact opposite. We will then expect our kids to pay the interest for the money currently borrowed to pay for their third rate education instead of paying for the infrastructure they will need in a modern Western European country.

We are really stuffing the future for our kids but I don't expect you can see that. Keep on laughing.

caseyann

Is seanad gone yet,and have they cut their own pay yet.
Oh and their pensions for those leaving soon are they cut aswell.:rolleyes:

So whats the news on smokes,car tax,petrol,drink,etc.. etc...

Dannyboy83

murphaph wrote: »

Laugh all you want but slashing capital spending whilst protecting current spending (wages in the PS and social welfare payments mostly) will have a devastating effect on <SNIP>

Above all else, it's gonna have a devastating effect on the very source of revenue which allows the CPA to continue untouched.

Not taking a pay cut now - is not a victory - if it threatens the short to medium term existence of your job!! I thought that would be clear.

I don't understand how people don't see this.....I think they just don't want to.
The guys in the ESB didn't want to see it, now they're exploring the potential for 1000 lay offs. But sher "it won't happen to us".


I don't care anyway, I started to get my finances in order around the same time as my join date on this forum - I'm now completely debt free as of 2 days ago.
I can get the fcuk out of this increasingly communist dump if needs be now.

Gumbo

Nody wrote: »

Private employee makes 2k, pays 500 in tax every month. State gains 500.
PS worker makes 2k, pays 500 in tax every month. State losses 1500.

Clear enough? Not even going in on anything regarding disparities in benefits, salary or anything like that purely from a money in, money out set up for the state. Hence even if PS paid 100% tax it would still not improve the state's finances and fix the red hole at the bottom line.

ok so, just to respond to this :

Private employee makes 2k, pays 500 in tax every month. State gains 500 - Thats fair enough and totally agree with you.

PS worker makes 2k, pays 500 in tax every month. State losses 1500 - Yes but those services still need to be provided. so even if you sack the PS worker, somebody else still needs to be paid to provide this service. some govt. depts cannot make a profit and shouldnt. who provides and maintains the roads that the private employee gets to work on?

who provides and maintains the water network that the private employee uses? etc etc etc etc

Lumbo

I am the 1%. Protected by the CPA as well. Times are sweet Got a tracker mortgage as well on a property that me and my partner can easily afford. Considering the fact that no one else on this forum gives a **** about anyone but themselves, I don't see why I should.

caseyann

Lumbo wrote: »

I am the 1%. Protected by the CPA as well. Times are sweet Got a tracker mortgage as well on a property that me and my partner can easily afford. Considering the fact that no one else on this forum gives a **** about anyone but themselves I don't see why I should.

I wouldnt go as far as to say that.
Happy you are out of reach of the mafia government and EU communists,who if had of been in France back in the day would have been the chopping block for them.
I care about all the people barr the thieves and the bond holders bankers and politicians.
But you are right on here most would rather see people die on side of street and freeze to death.

Vizzy

Lumbo wrote: »

I am the 1%. Protected by the CPA as well. Times are sweet Got a tracker mortgage as well on a property that me and my partner can easily afford. Considering the fact that no one else on this forum gives a **** about anyone but themselves, I don't see why I should.

Love this.
It's about time that the PS started to stand up for themselves and stop cowtowing to all the PS bashers who wouldn't have taken a job there when they could earn 3 times as much as a plasterer or a chippie(and fair play to them if they could get it).
I have sympathy for anyone who has lost their job over the last few years but I certainly don't intend to apologise to anyone because I have a job.

BTW,on top of being protected by CPA,and having a tracker I'll be getting my increment next week.
Happy days.

kippy

A couple of points.
Todays "report" or whatever they want to call it, got some serious airtime and indeed some shock from some corners. I am not sure what people were expecting, we've known for the past two/three years the adjustment that was required and knew that last years budget (indeed the few before it too) were the start longer term "adjustment".
While it is "nice" to know exactly the figure, they haven't really told us the nitty gritty for this year until the budget comes around, making the whole thing pointless in my opinion. People want to know specifics so either bring the budge forward or give more information.
Speculating on what will happen in the budget is pretty pointless especially in these times. The budget will be bad as will at least the next four/five. As such one can only make plans to "cut ones cloth" if there's any cloth left to cut.
That said,
if they increase the VAT rate, it will be one of the most ridiculous things to happen. I really dont understand the logic in this. Probably the same logic that is being used to stop below cost selling of alcohol.

As I mentioned earlier, we're in budget 3 of at least 8 "austere" budgets and still no one has been prosecuted for the gross negligence that has gotten this country to where we are today.

kippy

Vizzy wrote: »

Love this.
It's about time that the PS started to stand up for themselves and stop cowtowing to all the PS bashers who wouldn't have taken a job there when they could earn 3 times as much as a plasterer or a chippie(and fair play to them if they could get it).
I have sympathy for anyone who has lost their job over the last few years but I certainly don't intend to apologise to anyone because I have a job.

BTW,on top of being protected by CPA,and having a tracker I'll be getting my increment next week.
Happy days.

You're not helping matters.

The_Thing

Never had a mortgage and never will, been debt free all my life apart from a loan of £4,000 for my first car, Government job, own house and farm.

ILikeBananas

The_Thing wrote: »

Never had a mortgage and never will, been debt free all my life apart from a loan of £4,000 for my first car, Government job, own house and farm.

what is your point exactly?

Vizzy

kippy wrote: »

You're not helping matters.

I'm not here to "help matters"

kippy wrote: »

As I mentioned earlier, we're in budget 3 of at least 8 "austere" budgets and still no one has been prosecuted for the gross negligence that has gotten this country to where we are today.

This is the key to the whole problem though isn't it ?

Whilst there are some in the upper echelons of the PS( and a lot of them were not in the PS at the time i.e bankers) who have a lot to answer for,the ordinary guy (both private and public) will get screwed for the next five budgets.
And all this while we are now paying developers €200K to manage their busted developments.Where can I apply ?
Let the "public service bashers" vent their anger if it makes them feel better but I'm happy in the knowledge that I get up every morning and do a good days work.

woodoo

Nody wrote: »

Private employee makes 2k, pays 500 in tax every month. State gains 500.
PS worker makes 2k, pays 500 in tax every month. State losses 1500.

Clear enough? Not even going in on anything regarding disparities in benefits, salary or anything like that purely from a money in, money out set up for the state. Hence even if PS paid 100% tax it would still not improve the state's finances and fix the red hole at the bottom line.

The point is that if the government increase income tax that applies to Public and Private sector. So they will both be earning less in their paycheck.

ILikeBananas

murphaph wrote: »

Laugh all you want but slashing capital spending whilst protecting current spending (wages in the PS and social welfare payments mostly) will have a devastating effect on our children.

They will live in a country perpetually lagging behind in the infrastructure stakes which will find it harder and harder to attract the sort of knowledge based firms that we will need. Staff at such firms want quality of life associated with good urban infrastructure like metros and quality public spaces. Ireland will simply fall further behind here.

Similarly, reducing staff through natural attrition and not hiring new ones but rather "saving" money by nominally loading the remaining public servants with the extra work won't work as they are going at some point to be either unwilling or unable to take up the slack.

Class sizes will increase, rather than cutting pay by 10% and hiring the teachers needed. Children will endure a poorer education in a world of traffic and congestion, while Continental children enjoy the exact opposite. We will then expect our kids to pay the interest for the money currently borrowed to pay for their third rate education instead of paying for the infrastructure they will need in a modern Western European country.

We are really stuffing the future for our kids but I don't expect you can see that. Keep on laughing.

Great post. It was so predictable and yet still so frustrating to hear that once again the government are going back to the well that is Capital Expenditure. It's extremely short sighted policy.

The government spends money in 3 general areas: Welfare, PS wages and capital expenditure. It takes money in mostly from taxes. Of those 4 areas capital expenditure is the one that has got the least amount of votes in it so of course it's the one that is decimated.

The government have a massive majority and four and a half years to make necessary decisions. Surely it would make sense for them to make the unpopular but necessary decisions now in the beginning of their term and then have the remainder of the time for these decisions to bear fruit. They talk about front loading but all they're doing is kicking the can down the road.

For the PS workers who feel like they are being unfairly victimised. Can you envisage any scenario whereby the status quo can be maintained? The only reason we're not bankrupt is because of the very bodies who are puzzling over Greece at moment. We do not want to be dependent on those institutions. If the government cannot touch your wages or benefits then where do you suggest they get the money instead?

andyjo

msg11 wrote: »

VAT up to 23% are these boys off there heads or what ?

Are they trying to kill off what's left of the retail sector, VAT is under performing at the moment , so some crook in the Department of Finance says to raise it to 23%.

If that carbon tax is to go up, I am going back to my bike they will be down money on Insurance , Tax, Petrol, Products people buy related to cars.

What's vat at in the UK is it still 19% , if so that's a 5% difference now between the south and the north.

+1. If the govt raises vat here it will lead to more people shopping in the north and on-line from UK / elsewhere. The retail sector is on its knees as it is.

The elephant in the room is the huge public sector pay and pensions, and social welfare, whicgh is still far higher in Dundalk than in Newry.

woodoo

When you strip away one off handouts to banks what is the actual yearly deficit we are running?

ILikeBananas

woodoo wrote: »

When you strip away one off handouts to banks what is the actual yearly deficit we are running?

12.6 Billion Euro according to this story from a few days ago

Cill Dara Abu

We should put that 3 Billion we found on a horse and hope for the best.

waitingforBB

The_Thing wrote: »

Never had a mortgage and never will, been debt free all my life apart from a loan of £4,000 for my first car, Government job, own house and farm.

Was there a point to this post?

Cill Dara Abu

waitingforBB wrote: »

Was there a point to this post?

Bragging metinks, he/she obviously inherited farmland and a house but
others aren't so lucky.

Wider Road

Cill Dara Abu wrote: »

waitingforBB wrote: »

Was there a point to this post?

Bragging metinks, he/she obviously inherited farmland and a house but
others aren't so lucky.

Happy?

Cill Dara Abu

Wider Road wrote: »

Happy?

What?

waitingforBB

kceire wrote: »

ok so, just to respond to this :

Private employee makes 2k, pays 500 in tax every month. State gains 500 - Thats fair enough and totally agree with you.

PS worker makes 2k, pays 500 in tax every month. State losses 1500 - Yes but those services still need to be provided. so even if you sack the PS worker, somebody else still needs to be paid to provide this service. some govt. depts cannot make a profit and shouldnt. who provides and maintains the roads that the private employee gets to work on?

who provides and maintains the water network that the private employee uses? etc etc etc etc

No, the public sector is bloated by all accounts. Isn't there an argument for reducing and hence saving that 1500 on a mass scale?

It's in everyones interest to correct that (unfortunately the unions mantra whenever PS pay is in the mix is that the firefighters, guards, teachers are being attacked). PS unions have been very effective in portraying and attack mode philosophy, while cleverly covering their own arses and that of the civil service and middle manager levels. So much so that the PS were duped into voting for CPA.

The dogs on the street understand that the CPA is damaging to the country.
If the government grew a pair they would address it in the short term, but they are kicking the can down the road again in this budget.

If the civil service / middle management question was addressed, the front line people wouldn't be the focus for cuts. However, the PS en masse voted to sustain the farce by voting to adopt the CPA.

In my view the militants have done and continue to do huge damage. I do think that PS pay is higher than it should be and should be addressed. Its the elephant in the room and as Enda the teacher has decided not to take it on this time, its only a matter of time before he is told to do so.

It's only a matter of time until austerity becomes too much and the engineer / accountant / joe soap says no more. The IMF like in Greece will come in and slash wages in the PS if we dont get the house in order. Getting the house in order means slashing the PS paybill.

We cant sustain middle managers in the PS earning >100K. We cant sustain teachers (of any level) earning > 60K. Guards earning 80K?. Nice while it was going but the country is a busted flush. My company made losses this year, on top of last year. Cumulatively my pay is down 20%, but I'm happy to have a job. If we continue this. I will have no job. PS is the same. If its not prodictive, there need to be job losses / reductions. Ireland Inc is running at a loss and needs to adjust its cost base rather than taxing those that are productive.

WalterMitty

Any public servant who thinks this means no more pay cuts then think again. Of course Labour and FG are gonna promise to do everything in their power to prevent further pay cuts but the fact is there is so much outside of their power that will force them to cut pay and numbers and welfare eventually.
They are hoping that economic growth will pick up in next few years and generate the savings in not having to pay as much welfare and in increased tax take but this is just wishfull thinking.

As Constantin Gurdiev and Peter Mathews of FG have been pointing out, we are the most indebted nation on earth when private debt is added to public debt, which means that there is limited scope to raise taxes and limited scope for domestic economy to grow. Income is being used to service debt meaning less to be spent in economy.
Exports can only do so much and we are not gonna see them grow anywhere near enough to drive the domestic economy or employment levels.
There are a large chunk of people on dole too old or incapable of being retrained for the new sectors of the economy.
The structure of our economy,being heaviliy dependent on foreign investment here using low corporation tax means the scope for any significant rise in corporation taxes is limited.
We are now a high cost economy and unlikely to ever see the levels of export growth that we saw in the 1990s and early 2000s anytime soon. Lots of the types of jobs we got back then now go straight to eastern europe or asia. The high end stuff we do get here is not labour intensive and mainly use highly skilled continental Europeans.
In short not much more tax can be raised and not huge amounts of jobs created, so savings in expenditure has to been even deeper than proposed. cutting capital investment is bonkers and self defeating in long term so public sector pay and pension bill will inevitably have to be cut significantly and the mickey mouse reforms under the CPA will only deliver a fraction of whats required.

Because our debt is so high we may default unless we get lucky with Europe and international economy but they will want us to cut our pay levels to Eu averaegs which are a lot less than they are now. Secondary teachers in France and even USA get half what they do here, we cant be begging for debt write offs and low interest rate loans when we are overpaying so much by international standards.

texidub

Public AND private sector wages are bloated in this country. Fact. The entire economy is bloated and noncompetitive. Teachers on 60K +?? I know people making programmes for tg4 (programmes that are watched by less than 30,000 people, mind) who earn 2K a week. I know a fella who stacks pieces of paper for a multinational --literally, nothing more, nothing less-- who takes home 800+ a week after tax. Wasn't the editor of the Irish Times the fourth best paid newspaper editor in the world?

Contrast: I know people making tv programs in the US that are watched by millions who take home less than people in TG4. I know people writing for publications that are read by millions in the US --AND worldwide-- who couldn't even dream of earning what the editor of the Irish Times --a completely inconsequential, non-entity of a paper-- earns.

And what is that all based on? Irish ingenuity? Our limitless natural resources? Our huge and creative population? Colonial power? Military power? Financial influence? No. It *was* based on credit. Now it's based on a sense of entitlement.

What I don't understand is this: economies are relative (it doesn't matter if you earn one euro a week if it costs 90 cents a week to live here), so why can't someone come in and slash everything --public AND private sector wages-- AND the cost of living? If that means telling banks to eff off re: the value of current mortgages and loans, then pity about them. If that means fewer fancy imports then pity about you.

As for the public sector people here boasting about the state of their financial affairs.. I know you feel persecuted and unappreciated but being obnoxious really doesn't help your case. You ARE overpaid. You DO live on a small, unimportant island with feck all natural resources. The Irish education system is no great shakes, so the 'educated workforce' stuff only works if you want to compare us to places where the education system is truly awful. Ireland doesn't have much to offer the world. Fact.

Open your eyes to what Ireland really is in the scheme of things and you'll see that really, in global terms, people here should probably be earning LESS than people in most countries on earth. BUT since economies are relative that wouldn't matter if someone with the the balls to do so would come in and reduce living costs across the board.

Bullseye1

If there was any doubt that this government was not going to take on the civil servants it was Noonans statement after the 3.6 billion accounting error.

1. Reductions in spend on infrastructure when it couldn't be cheaper to construct said roads/rail lines.
2. Increasing VAT. Madness when current VAT shows retailers are struggling and the general public less likely to spend. Putting additional 2% on products is no way of of encouraging people spend.
3. Not reducing social welfare and sections of PS pay including pensions is a cop out and going against the mandate given to them by the people.

We need a new political party who in government won't be afraid to sack incompetent civil servants.

ianuss

texidub wrote: »

You DO live on a small, unimportant island with feck all natural resources. The Irish education system is no great shakes, so the 'educated workforce' stuff only works if you want to compare us to places where the education system is truly awful. Ireland doesn't have much to offer the world. Fact.

Open your eyes to what Ireland really is in the scheme of things and you'll see that really, in global terms, people here should probably be earning LESS than people in most countries on earth. BUT since economies are relative that wouldn't matter if someone with the the balls to do so would come in and reduce living costs across the board.

Our greatest asset is that we are an English speaking country. If it wasn't for that, regardless of our favourable Corporation Tax and 'educated workforce', we'd be just like Greece - minus the good weather and ancient history.

bbam

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/2-vat-hike-100-property-charge-and-carbon-taxes-likely-in-budget-527150.html

Jesus this looks like some crock of sh1t..

"But Mr Noonan promised income tax will remain at its current levels in an attempt to create jobs."

An attempt to create jobs... doesnt sound to certain... Also did he not raid our pensions to create jobs ??

ei.sdraob

bbam wrote: »

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/2-vat-hike-100-property-charge-and-carbon-taxes-likely-in-budget-527150.html

Jesus this looks like some crock of sh1t..

"But Mr Noonan promised income tax will remain at its current levels in an attempt to create jobs."

An attempt to create jobs... doesnt sound to certain... Also did he not raid our pensions to create jobs ??

I swear i cringe every time a politician mentions "job creation"
I already pay enough in VAT to hire someone full time average industrial wage, instead i have to hand this money over in VAT, and thats just VAT dont get me started on other taxes

I would happily give this money to someone for a job instead of giving it to the government to waste!

bbam

ei.sdraob wrote: »

I swear i cringe every time a politician mentions "job creation"
I already pay enough in VAT to hire someone full time average industrial wage, instead i have to hand this money over in VAT, and thats just VAT dont get me started on other taxes

I would happily give this money to someone for a job instead of giving it to the government to waste!

I think there is a better chance of them understanding and creating a time machine than a meaningful number of decent jobs...

They are sitting back passing the time waiting and praying for a global recovery to drag us along on its coat tails..
I see absolutely no evidence to the contrary and I don't beleive there is much they really can do...
I just wish they'd stop with the empty promises

RobitTV

VAT could rise to 23% from 21%

outreagous, aren't things expensive enough?

cursai

[QUOTE=Nody;75301860]Private employee makes 2k, pays 500 in tax every month. State gains 500.
PS worker makes 2k, pays 500 in tax every month. State losses 1500.

Clear enough? Not even going in on anything regarding disparities in benefits, salary or anything like that purely from a money in, money out set up for the state. Hence even if PS paid 100% tax it would still not improve the state's finances and fix the red hole at the bottom line.[/QUOTE]

Thats horrible reasoning. PS wages are spend in the country and recycled to a degree.
Wage levels across comparable workers are the same whether private or public. The money is porportionally distributed down from the top. Its just that in the public service there are more on the middle rung of the ladder.

doc_17

Head The Wall wrote: »

Firstly our teachers are not cheap and secondly it's the truth not an insult. if you see it as an insult tough. The majority of teachers in this country couldn't give a rats arse about the kids.

They're great lads to hide behind the union for their own purpose when they could use their power to achieve something for the kids

Disgraceful post. Ignorant as well.

Anyway moving on....

Are the government going to amend the USC at all? Think when they were in opposiion last year they said it was unfair in some respects and that they would "review it"

Nody

cursai wrote: »

Thats horrible reasoning. PS wages are spend in the country and recycled to a degree.
Wage levels across comparable workers are the same whether private or public. The money is porportionally distributed down from the top. Its just that in the public service there are more on the middle rung of the ladder.

No matter how you slice it the PS can never bring in wealth to the state directly through taxes, indirect or otherwise comparable to a privately employed person making the same money spending the money the same way.

I intentionally excluded the whole discussion about salary levels as there are enough of other threads about that subject.

irishh_bob

Vizzy wrote: »

Love this.
It's about time that the PS started to stand up for themselves and stop cowtowing to all the PS bashers who wouldn't have taken a job there when they could earn 3 times as much as a plasterer or a chippie(and fair play to them if they could get it).
I have sympathy for anyone who has lost their job over the last few years but I certainly don't intend to apologise to anyone because I have a job.

BTW,on top of being protected by CPA,and having a tracker I'll be getting my increment next week.
Happy days.

i realise your a relativley new ( or infrequent ) contributor but you probabley should know that that union sent meme about no one wanting to work in the public sector during the boom has been debunked for the crap it is at least eighteen months ago , no one uses it anymore for fear of looking silly

andyjo

WalterMitty wrote: »

. Secondary teachers in France and even USA get half what they do here, we cant be begging for debt write offs and low interest rate loans when we are overpaying so much by international standards.

This is what the government should be looking at - reducing our public sector pay to realistic levels , instead of trying to reduce the competiveness of the economy further by increasing vat, which will lead to more on-line shopping from UK, and more cross border shopping.....and less tax collected here, more job losses, less rates being paid etc. There are enough retailers struggling here as it is....and they mostly earn a lot less than the average public servant.

jetfiremuck

FFs. I think the sky is falling is a matter of perception.
1. Why the mad dash to pay off the debt as quickly as possible.....Noonan thinks that it'll give us cred in Europe...will not. We are not the worry here it's Italy and Spain.,

2. Peoples spending depends on predictable outcomes...fact. With the recent Gov cock up re the 3.6billion.. Things are going to get worse etc, tighten the belts..would encourage anyone not to spend and savevit instead.

3. No economy has ever recovered by being taxed as a way to recovery..

4. Everyone needs to pay some tax and to encourage those who are on welfare to do something for the benefit (voluntary service in the hospitals as an example) to have a sense of purpose.
5. We will see the long lines in Newry and the North for Christmas like the few years ago. This is as a result of Gov policy.