Freeing Up Fridays

wnolan1992

ULSU Facebook wrote:

So one of the solutions that could be looked at in response to freeing up time on Wednesday and Friday afternoons is running classes until 8pm on Monday, Tuesday and Thursday. What do people think?

I found this interesting, might as well throw it up here.

Why do people always say Wednesday's should be freed up? I've never understand why the academic side of the college needs to worry about the clubs and socs.

Fridays on the other hand are a different story for obvious reasons (buses, home, work, etc).

I'd be in favour of 8am starts, I wouldn't like having them, but if it meant I'd get out of UL early any Friday I'm going home then so be it.

What do people think?

Nockz

Classes on Saturdays with half days on Sundays.

wnolan1992

Nockz wrote: »

Classes on Saturdays with half days on Sundays.

Would achieve what exactly? And if you're just going to post "It'd free up Fridays at least." Then don't bother.

kob29

Colleges aim to produce rounded graduates seeing as employers look for more than just the "bit of paper", Wednesdays are often when clubs and socs competitions are held with teams and competitors travelling away, saves them missing lectures.

PROGRAM_IX

I would be very much against any move to hold classes later than six on other days just to clear up Friday. This year I have a clear Wednesday and a busy Friday. I've had it the other way 'round and it wasn't fun. I got burned out by Friday every week. That midweek break is necessary breathing space for me. Moving it around just to get home by six on a Friday seems like a colossal waste.

Nockz

wnolan1992 wrote: »

Would achieve what exactly? And if you're just going to post "It'd free up Fridays at least." Then don't bother.

Tough crowd tonight :pac:

wnolan1992

PROGRAM_IX wrote: »

I would be very much against any move to hold classes later than six on other days just to clear up Friday. This year I have a clear Wednesday and a busy Friday. I've had it the other way 'round and it wasn't fun. I got burned out by Friday every week. That midweek break is necessary breathing space for me. Moving it around just to get home by six on a Friday seems like a colossal waste.

I've got both a busy Wednesday and a busy Friday. On from 9:00-1:00 straight on Wednesday, and 9:00-2:00 straight on a Friday. The only times this semester I've been awake in that last lecture are the times I skipped Wednesday.

I agree that as it stands, if you have a busy Friday, then of course it is much better to have Wednesday virtually free. But just from my perspective, I'd prefer to distribute the five hours I have on Friday out among the other days, even add two of them to Wednesday evening.
That way, the burnout you speak of is less likely to happen (again, this is just my own perspective) as you've a lot of the work out of the way by Wednesday, and you still would have enough energy for what's left on Thursday.


One idea I was thinking of was that lectures on Fridays could start at 8am, as in move all lectures back by one hour. Though I know this would probably cause problems, especially for those mature students who have families.

wnolan1992

Nockz wrote: »

Tough crowd tonight :pac:

Sorry, I just don't want this thread to be a fiasco like some of the others. Try again tomorrow when we've had the discussion, then we can all start posting vids of kittens and stuff again. :pac: :pac:

PROGRAM_IX

wnolan1992 wrote: »

Sorry, I just don't want this thread to be a fiasco like some of the others. Try again tomorrow when we've had the discussion, then we can all start posting vids of kittens and stuff again. :pac: :pac:

Those weren't the problem. The problem arose when people ignored the calming influence of the cat videos.

Polar Ice

wnolan1992 wrote: »

I've got both a busy Wednesday and a busy Friday. On from 9:00-1:00 straight on Wednesday, and 9:00-2:00 straight on a Friday.

You're Wednesday and Friday afternoons are free...
The post of the ULSU facebook wall was in reference to freeing up Wednesday afternoons (as it should already be for C&S purposes) and Fridays (assumingly to facilitate everyone who heads home)

Having a 'busy' day is a different matter to having the afternoon free.

You didn't actually answer the question you posted. It said what do people think of classes running until 8pm on the other days. You then responded by saying you wouldn't mind starting at 8am.

The issue with stretching the day is could it cause problems if you have classes extremely early and late on the same day. Also, it would make C&S have a more difficult time to run evening events on the other regular days of the week. I always thought a best attempt to have Wednesday afternoon free was fine. I always attended tutorials late on Friday simply because of smaller class sizes.

wnolan1992

Polar Ice wrote: »

You're Wednesday and Friday afternoons are free...
The post of the ULSU facebook wall was in reference to freeing up Wednesday afternoons (as it should already be for C&S purposes) and Fridays (assumingly to facilitate everyone who heads home)

Having a 'busy' day is a different matter to having the afternoon free.

You didn't actually answer the question you posted. It said what do people think of classes running until 8pm on the other days. You then responded by saying you wouldn't mind starting at 8am.

The issue with stretching the day is could it cause problems if you have classes extremely early and late on the same day. Also, it would make C&S have a more difficult time to run evening events on the other regular days of the week. I always thought a best attempt to have Wednesday afternoon free was fine. I always attended tutorials late on Friday simply because of smaller class sizes.

We'll have to agree to differ on my own circumstances (didn't post about the extra work I do on projects, assignments in the evenings, + presentations, extra tutorials etc. Not really important to the thread. )

Sorry, you're right, I never answered my own question.
I think extending to 8pm in the evening is a terrible idea. For several reasons. First, there's the ones you posted. Lots of C&S do stuff at 7pm from what I've seen.
Then, there's attendance. If attendance at some of my 9am lectures is anything to go by, attendance at 8pm ones would be practically non-existent. Especially on Tuesdays and Thursdays, for obvious reasons.

Also, if your days lectures were not to end until 8pm, that would leave CSIS students approx. 1hour free time to work in the labs at the end of the day.

I'm sure there are numerous problems with starting at 8am as well. Just in my opinion, that'd be preferable than being on until 8pm.

ergonomics

I'm not in UL any more so this doesn't really affect me unless I do another course, which I may. I don't think extending classes until 8pm is a good idea for numerous reasons, but the main one is that lots of students work part-time.

I know when I was in UL I worked a lot of evenings from 5pm. If I had classes until 8pm I could have ended up missing out on quite a few hours work.

It's hard enough for students to find work at the moment. They don't need something else stopping them from working.

joey12

Well my honest opinion is I don't really if my Wednesdays are free or not, I accept I'm college and my education comes first. They keep going on about this Wednesday craic and everyone I know really doesn't care (btw ok with fridays off).

I really think the SU should work on more important issues like for example the state of the Library atm. Make the learning experience better in this place not extend the hours making it more of an excuse not to attend lectures.

Sid_Justice

I think the college should convert all lectures to multimedia delivery and do away with arachaic lecture system and restraining timetables.

sign up for a course, get the online lectures, have 1 hour a week tutorial to blast lecturer with questions.

CiaranMT

Sid_Justice wrote: »

I think the college should convert all lectures to multimedia delivery and do away with arachaic lecture system and restraining timetables.

sign up for a course, get the online lectures, have 1 hour a week tutorial to blast lecturer with questions.

Not feasible, especially the last part, which wouldn't be of any use to practical subjects where tutor time is more necessary.

On the topic of free days, Wednesday afternoon is apparently supposed to be kept clear for Clubs & Socs. Whatever happened that I don't know, I've always seemed to have something on a Wednesday.

Is there anyone who can remember this? They'd be in Post-grad at this stage I'd say..

Sid_Justice

how do you know what's feasible and what isn't? It most certainly is feasible.

Nockz

Sid_Justice wrote: »

how do you know what's feasible and what isn't? It most certainly is feasible.

Online courses exist. No need for UL to pack it up and go digital.

Sid_Justice

Obviously people don't know their history.

What's the point in 50 minute didactic lectures in this day and age?

None really.

Get rid of all those waster staff that do **** all draining educational resources. Get high quality, up to date e-lectures on the subjects from the USA or the UK. Bring students in for workshops, lab sessions, practical sessions. Give them plenty of homework that incorporates individual research, problem based learning, insight, reflection.

Say no to boring lectures by scruffy half-arsed pseudo-academics. Say no to getting buses in for 9am only for lecturer to arrive 15 minutes late. Say no to sitting through some gammy powerpoint slide plagiarised out of the basic text book.

keep the continuous assessment, keep the end of semester exams, keep the FYP and the dissertation. Bring back real grades, only let the best get a 1st class, don't let people fall behind. Track student progress with informative exams (mock exams), give them continuous feedback.

Allow broad curriculum across the first and second year, let law students take chemistry, let chemists take international economics. tie people down in the 3rd and 4th year. teach them high level theory but keep the intra/work experience thing allowing them to keep a firm foot in the real world.

support collaboration, support initiative, support creativity.

say no to rote learning, say no to turning up 2 weeks in a year to cram for some predictable exam. choose life.

CiaranMT

Sid_Justice wrote: »

Obviously people don't know their history.

What's the point in 50 minute didactic lectures in this day and age?

None really.

Get rid of all those waster staff that do **** all draining educational resources. Get high quality, up to date e-lectures on the subjects from the USA or the UK. Bring students in for workshops, lab sessions, practical sessions. Give them plenty of homework that incorporates individual research, problem based learning, insight, reflection.

Say no to boring lectures by scruffy half-arsed pseudo-academics. Say no to getting buses in for 9am only for lecturer to arrive 15 minutes late. Say no to sitting through some gammy powerpoint slide plagiarised out of the basic text book.

keep the continuous assessment, keep the end of semester exams, keep the FYP and the dissertation. Bring back real grades, only let the best get a 1st class, don't let people fall behind. Track student progress with informative exams (mock exams), give them continuous feedback.

Allow broad curriculum across the first and second year, let law students take chemistry, let chemists take international economics. tie people down in the 3rd and 4th year. teach them high level theory but keep the intra/work experience thing allowing them to keep a firm foot in the real world.

support collaboration, support initiative, support creativity.

say no to rote learning, say no to turning up 2 weeks in a year to cram for some predictable exam. choose life.

Reminded me of

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWKhoR509yg

Sid_Justice wrote: »

how do you know what's feasible and what isn't? It most certainly is feasible.

Teaching students theoretical physics through online lectures and expecting them to grasp it enough to only need an hour (less, since everyone will be asking) in which to ask questions? Come off it.

Sid_Justice

CiaranMT wrote: »

Reminded me of

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWKhoR509yg

Teaching students theoretical physics through online lectures and expecting them to grasp it enough to only need an hour (less, since everyone will be asking) in which to ask questions? Come off it.

MIT are offering free online machine learning and artificial intelligence lectures on their websites. How it works is, the lecturers are actually well put together, cover a lot of material but start at the logical beginning and progress forwards. Students have access to a good textbook which covers the course well and is readable. Invariably, students will have problem with understanding or more interestingly will have questions beyond the scope of the course. They have opportunity to submit questions to the lectures and the lectures posts the questions and answers up on a message board. Ifall of this still fails, you have an opportunity to go in face to face and meet tutor and get more help.

No reason why it wouldn't work perfectly for the most difficult courses seen in TP and maths to neuroscience. The teaching is based on the principle that:

lectures guide the way
the textbook is reliable
students try and work through problems on their own
students work with each other collaboratively to solve problems
tutors supply direct help

J_E

Don't know about Wed or Friday being free, I finish at 4 on a Wednesday and 5 on a Friday... nice to have the evening off but neither of them are exactly 'clear' days...

Cossax

CiaranMT wrote: »

Not feasible, especially the last part, which wouldn't be of any use to practical subjects where tutor time is more necessary.

On the topic of free days, Wednesday afternoon is apparently supposed to be kept clear for Clubs & Socs. Whatever happened that I don't know, I've always seemed to have something on a Wednesday.

Is there anyone who can remember this? They'd be in Post-grad at this stage I'd say..

Was part of the ill-fated Alcohol Policy IIRC.

reunion

CiaranMT wrote: »

Not feasible, especially the last part, which wouldn't be of any use to practical subjects where tutor time is more necessary.

I actually had a lecture recorded so it's most certainly feasible.

The 2 things that would affect this would actually be the lecturers and the departments. Some lecturers are seriously bad and give "hints" in lectures about the exam that year to ensure everyone passes/does reasonabley well, they would be 100% against this, they wouldn't want to be shown as bad lecturers forever. Each individual department would have to record and provide the lectures I think.

I think it would be a fantastic idea and something the college should do. UL is meant to be a teaching college and that would seem like something to attract students, save lecturers time (you could have 2 lecture slots a week instead of 3) and possibly raise some money for the college (by charging for access to these videos). They would only need to make the video once during one aademic year. This would certainly free up enough time to allow wednesday to definetly be free.

ClearlyClear

I would be all for going for an extra hour monday, tuesday, thursday, so lectures till 7. Then this frees up 3 hours and then finish fridays at 3 Allowing everyone to go home earlier for the weekend

Jester252

8pm **** that it bad enough that its dark at 5-6 lectures.
If this was going to happen the SU would have to give up some big stuff.
Do you think that lectures, most of them will have family, will stay until 8pm? Unlike the most of us they travel home could be more then an hour drive and they might what to spend sometime with their children/partner.
It will also cost the university more money as the working day for everyone will be extended.
If you have a problem with your Friday timetable i.e a TUT/LAB/LEC that is on after 4 that prevent you from going home ask the lecture in charge about moving it.
Note that having a lot of hours on one day is a not a reason to try and get them changed and that in secondary school it was class 9-4 five day a week with an hour off.

wnolan1992

Sid_Justice wrote: »

Obviously people don't know their history.

What's the point in 50 minute didactic lectures in this day and age?

None really.

Get rid of all those waster staff that do **** all draining educational resources. Get high quality, up to date e-lectures on the subjects from the USA or the UK. Bring students in for workshops, lab sessions, practical sessions. Give them plenty of homework that incorporates individual research, problem based learning, insight, reflection.

Say no to boring lectures by scruffy half-arsed pseudo-academics. Say no to getting buses in for 9am only for lecturer to arrive 15 minutes late. Say no to sitting through some gammy powerpoint slide plagiarised out of the basic text book.

keep the continuous assessment, keep the end of semester exams, keep the FYP and the dissertation. Bring back real grades, only let the best get a 1st class, don't let people fall behind. Track student progress with informative exams (mock exams), give them continuous feedback.

Allow broad curriculum across the first and second year, let law students take chemistry, let chemists take international economics. tie people down in the 3rd and 4th year. teach them high level theory but keep the intra/work experience thing allowing them to keep a firm foot in the real world.

support collaboration, support initiative, support creativity.

say no to rote learning, say no to turning up 2 weeks in a year to cram for some predictable exam. choose life.

While this post does come across a bit ranty and kind of like a campaign ad, there are some good points raised.

I think the e-lecture idea is a good one. Not sure of the feasibilites of doing it though, so I don't know if it's possible.
It would make sense though. Personally, I find sitting in a lecture to be rather pointless, unles that lecturer is actively engaging the class with the material. I was lucky enough in first year to have lectures with DSK in CSIS, and he is one of those that during lectures can make the material come alive.

I think your statement of 1 hour a week is a bit of a joke though. I reckon if we had the same number of contact hours, just make them practical lab and tutorial hours rather than lectures we'd be far etter off.

That said, I can't see this happening in any uni in Ireland any time soon.

Don't kn ow if this "arriving at 9 only for the lecture to arrive 15mins late" thing is that widespread, the only time this has happened to me was a lab, where the lab assistant didn't show up, and we had to go to the lecturer's office to get him to take the lab. Which he did.

Sid_Justice

wnolan1992 wrote: »

I think the e-lecture idea is a good one. Not sure of the feasibilites of doing it though, so I don't know if it's possible.

Cost of implementation will save millions in long run.

It would make sense though. Personally, I find sitting in a lecture to be rather pointless, unles that lecturer is actively engaging the class with the material. I was lucky enough in first year to have lectures with DSK in CSIS, and he is one of those that during lectures can make the material come alive.

he is the perfect tutor.

I think your statement of 1 hour a week is a bit of a joke though. I reckon if we had the same number of contact hours, just make them practical lab and tutorial hours rather than lectures we'd be far etter off.

You can't have your cake and eat it. It would depend on the course, someone doing English lit may need less contact hours than someone doing robotical engineering.

That said, I can't see this happening in any uni in Ireland any time soon.

you obviously don't know anything about what's happening in all the unis in Ireland right now

Don't kn ow if this "arriving at 9 only for the lecture to arrive 15mins late" thing is that widespread, the only time this has happened to me was a lab, where the lab assistant didn't show up, and we had to go to the lecturer's office to get him to take the lab. Which he did.

Your probably right, if it didn't happen to you in your short lifetime in college it probably never happened to anyone else.

wnolan1992

Sid_Justice wrote: »

Cost of implementation will save millions in long run.

Probably would save a lot, the uni's wage bill would certainly be reduced significantly.

You can't have your cake and eat it. It would depend on the course, someone doing English lit may need less contact hours than someone doing robotical engineering.

Totally correct.

you obviously don't know anything about what's happening in all the unis in Ireland right now

Your probably right, if it didn't happen to you in your short lifetime in college it probably never happened to anyone else.

[/QUOTE]

I know what's going on in my own department in UL, and a vague knowledge of happenings in others.

Yes Sid, it's never happened to anyone else. The world centres around me and my beliefs. Didn't you know?
Did I say it "never happened"? No I did not. I said it's proably not that widespread. I can only speak from own experiences in UL, I'm not going to make wide sweeping genralisations about lectures systematically not showing up when I've heard no-one in my circle of friends (which ranges from Business students, to engineers, to journalists, to sports science people) complaining about it.

If you have evidence to the contrary, even if it's anecdotal I'd genuinely love to hear it.

Sid_Justice

I have plenty of experience of tardiness on the part of the lecturer. I cut them slack though, a lot of students are late too.

If you would have said 20 years ago all lecturers would be submitted to moodle/blackboard/sulis/ something on slides after/before a lecture people like you would have said:

no, that's a good idea but not feasible.

If you ever look through the course webpages for all the ivy league universities in america you'll see all these links to "video of lecture, transcript of lecture, podcast, video cast, interactive message forums, group chat, tutorial rooms, self directed learning, ebook libraries etc. the list goes on"

unfortunately we're about 10 years behind our transatlantic friends in terms of this kind of thing, some of it is funding obviously but for me, it's mostly traditionalism and laziness.

have you seen the state of the lecture rooms in the main building compared to the likes of KBS. total joke and disgraceful.

wnolan1992

Sid_Justice wrote: »

I have plenty of experience of tardiness on the part of the lecturer. I cut them slack though, a lot of students are late too.

If you would have said 20 years ago all lecturers would be submitted to moodle/blackboard/sulis/ something on slides after/before a lecture people like you would have said:

no, that's a good idea but not feasible.

You're deliberately misinterpreting what I said. I didn't say it wasn't feasible, I said I didn't know.

If you ever look through the course webpages for all the ivy league universities in america you'll see all these links to "video of lecture, transcript of lecture, podcast, video cast, interactive message forums, group chat, tutorial rooms, self directed learning, ebook libraries etc. the list goes on"

unfortunately we're about 10 years behind our transatlantic friends in terms of this kind of thing, some of it is funding obviously but for me, it's mostly traditionalism and laziness.

have you seen the state of the lecture rooms in the main building compared to the likes of KBS. total joke and disgraceful.

In 100% agreement with you here. I find Berkley's video's of their lectures to be invaluable when studying for an exam. But the main reason why I said I don't see it happening in Ireland any time soon, and you've basically said it already, a mixture of funding and traditionalism and laziness.
For the next number of years we'll no doubt be hearing about how we cannot upgrade systems in the college due to cutbacks etc.
As an aside, look how long the discussion about modernising the teaching of Irish in secondary schools has been going on? With still very little progress. How long would it take for a drastic revamping of the entire third level system?

Sid_Justice

with me in charge i'd have the bulk of it done in less than 10 years.