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Chronicles of a fish: the days of surf and turf
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RacoonQueen wrote: »The only marathon I ever needed to stop for the toilet in was my first. Haven't needed to ever since so I suspect that was in my head. It'd be different for everyone but I'd very rarely even need to go while on a run. Think I've run into the bushes once in over 4 years of running. I suppose it depends on the person, boys, typically, need to stop off more.
As for the paper cups, some people will carry a straw with them and drink from the straw, some will make a spout and manage to get the water that way. If you can't drink from the cups you'll probably lose less time by walking through the water stations and getting a good slurp of water than you'll lose if you run through them and get feck all water on and end up dehydrated.
Have you ever had to drink from a cup in a race before? Can't drink from a cup while running myself, I get a sip then just throw the rest in the general direction of my open mouth and hope for the best.
(You were just the gal I was thinking of for this question.
) Achill, the water was in little bottles and was perfect. Shepherdstown, the water was in cups and I honestly was never able to hit my mouth with it...thus, no water consumption on that run...but that was fine because it was only a half-marathon and it was a cool and rainy day. A straw might be a good idea. THANKS!shotgunmcos wrote: »How did you fare in your 20 miler? Monitor this in your other 4 20 milers too. On race day you tend to sip more water if a) its warm and b) nervous so you may just be filling a balloon up with water. Test this out on one of your long runs. Maybe sip a litre of water in the 90 mins befroe you run and see how it goes.
How stressful? For women much more, unless yuo have absolutely no shame whatsoever!
I hate cups. They had them in Berlin in September and half the water just went up my nose. You may have to use tops 7 water stations. If you were to slow down and post a 8-10 sec slower mile each time would a minute be a catastrophe in the greater scheme of things? I'd recommend slowing down at least
BTW sent that mail from my gmail this time :rolleyes:
I did fine on the 20 miler, but now I've got it in my head about maybe needing to go. I'll try the 90 litre suggestion.
Yes, hate the cups....and I got your gmail. Thanks!! 0 -
you'll probably know yourself from your long runs and shorter races (or marathon swim sessions!). If you need to stop on those, you will in the marathon. If not, you'll be fine.
I agree with RQ, you're better off stopping and drinking properly than only getting half a cup and being thirsty. It only takes a couple of seconds (just watch out for collisions)
Don't usually have to stop while running...but, funny enough, I did have to stop once during this Sunday's long swim. I actually hated to leave the lane for fear that another swimmer would hop in in my place...so I told the sweet, older, larger Italian woman to save my spot. And she did. But I'm also pretty quick at potty breaks. (not that you needed to know that....) 0 -
I read your log in reverse today, and thought wtf are they suggesting???
I did fine on the 20 miler, but now I've got it in my head about maybe needing to go. I'll try the 90 litre suggestion.
I walk when there's cups at the drink stations. Awful things. I take two, one to drink, one to pour down the back of the neck if its hot.
Im dreading the day I need a toilet break in a trisuit. And its bound to happen in IM. Though you are supposed to flow as you go and not care. A number two Id imagine even the toughest triathlete stops for.
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e-Mail the organisers and ask them how they are providing water - cups or bottles. They should know this by now. Perhaps mention are they providing gels as well and if they are practice with them to see do you like them.
Whats your marathon like anyways - have they a website?
Your peeing predicament should be predicted by your pace - sub 3.30 hours - pee in the shorts while simultaneously throwing water over yourself.
Over 4.00 hours - queue for the toilet and even use the hand dryer and reapply make up for the finishing straight photo.
Gosh, I guess I'll have to decide on either not wearing my lucky white shorts or strapping my makeup bag to my waist.
Yes to the marathon website. Not sure if you're asking me to post the link, but here it is in case you are.
http://charlottesvillemarathon.com/
I'll try to email the organizers. Personally, I think cups should be outlawed at such events. Small, hand friendly bottles only!0 -
I read your log in reverse today, and thought wtf are they suggesting???
I walk when there's cups at the drink stations. Awful things. I take two, one to drink, one to pour down the back of the neck if its hot.
Im dreading the day I need a toilet break in a trisuit. And its bound to happen in IM. Though you are supposed to flow as you go and not care. A number two Id imagine even the toughest triathlete stops for.
http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=150441&start=1
:pac:0 -
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US events are usually cups - (I think it's because bottles would require some recycling arrangement).
There is a trick to drinking from cups on the run which works pretty well but takes practice. Grab the cup by the top, dump some if it is more than 2/3s full and squeeze it to form an oval like so:
()
narrowing the angle of you drink from keeps water from shooting all over the place - up the nose into the eyes etc. Things did come unglued when I ran one small event that managed to use plastic cups :rolleyes:.
There's also a neat type of pouch that's easy to carry called a HydraPouch - seems like a good. I bought one sometime ago but have never actually used it as I have not run a US marathon since.
Damn Americans and their obsession with recycling!!
Thanks for the oval tip. I can totally see how that could work. I would worry about added weight with the hydra pouch....plus I like the freedom of being unencumbered. 0 -
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Tempo Run
Decided I'd strap on the heart monitor for this evening's trot on the treadie. I still need to follow jb's suggestion about establishing thresholds, and I will do that, but I was curious where my rate would be for this specified tempo run. I can load the data from my Garmin on my computer tomorrow and then post it here if there is any value in that, but based on my periodic glances at my watch, my 2 mile easy warm up (at 10 min/mile) hovered around the lower 130s at first, then closer to the lower 140s by the time my warm up was over. The next 3 miles were tempo miles at 7:48 min/mile and the rate went up to the upper 150s, then stayed pretty steady at 164. Dropped the pace back to 10 min/mile for the remaining 5 miles, and the rate seemed to average 136 to 142. Not exactly sure what, if anything, this tells me, but there it is if it does.
10 miles in 1:33:12
Trainer
This was tough. Thighs tired and heavy.....I almost stopped after 1 mile, but the Caps were playing so I decided to keep pedaling until I had either gone 10 miles, the first period of hockey ended, or the clock struck 8:30, whichever came first. I made it to 10 miles....in 40 minutes.
Caps winning....and should win at this point. Pretty good game....our goalie is sharp tonight, shut out for him so far....3-0 with 6ish minutes to go. 0 -
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I'm not being self serving in saying this but do take a step back week. Don't even look at the challenge. Its very easy to get sucked into competing at the expense of sensible training. You have a big year ahead plenty of time. Don't overdo it now and get bored tired or injured! 0
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I'm not being self serving in saying this but do take a step back week. Don't even look at the challenge. Its very easy to get sucked into competing at the expense of sensible training. You have a big year ahead plenty of time. Don't overdo it now and get bored tired or injured!
Yep, you and a few others are dead on here. Definitely hard to let go of mileage and time while in this challenge, but I'm injury free and feeling stronger than ever at the moment, plus my most important task at hand is the marathon in 11 weeks, so I will ease it up just a bit next week. Thanks for your very wise words!interested wrote: »+1
I hear you've got some great swim sessions. Would love to get my grubby paws on one of them....hint, hint. 0 -
I hear you've got some great swim sessions. Would love to get my grubby paws on one of them....hint, hint.
You and anyone is welcome to 'em. Its been a lifetime since I swam yards, but you've enough swimming in the bag to know what to chop/change/reduce etc. Btw, with no seriousness whatsoever, I'm thoroughly amazed you were still conscious after your most recent swim-athon at your pool.
See link to spreadsheet - usual warnings and legal caveats apply considerably. They were put together in September 2010 so they're due an update, and feel free to ignore my associated meanderings - I was on antibiotics at the time. Recent experiences of my own suggest there is a big lean towards short, sharp and aggressive warm ups which definitely take a little getting used to and may not necessarily suit anyone doing triathlons.0 -
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My long swim you refer to...yes....the quality of that session dropped dramatically around the 2 hour mark.
Hey, it was a more of a tip of a cap than anything. With the commute to that pool you're bound to want to get your gas money back with time in the pool.I suppose that's one reason why while in training we swam two 90 minute sessions a day during the week, and 2 hour sessions on Saturdays when we weren't traveling or competing. However, as I mentioned to shotgun, I swam on a military team for a while and we had 3 hour sessions on Saturdays in a huge arse pool with no lane lines.
True. Although, I think when you're in that life everything (and all the crazy sets and time around a pool) became normal. Book, walkman, a dry towel and the ability to find space to lie down in a heartbeat - things used to be so simple
Never formally swam with any military teams when I was in the states but had an entertaining discussion with a few Air Force swimmers in the training pool in UF along time ago - that was until their CO came along and starting shouting at us all - until I excused myself and got back to my own session. 3 hours without lanes ... hilariousThanks for the workouts...gave a quick glance....will definitely give a few of these a spin in the pool. Are you still competing competitively in swimming? Would love to hear some old war stories at some point.
As above, and in the associated text, they come with no real credibility re: competitive swimming - nope, when I finished I really finished. I just couldnt (and still believe it to be impossible) to participate in competitive swimming and be a normal person due to the time commitments and associated fatigue. I think if you were a 50 specialist it might be possible since swim volume can be reduced and complimented with weights - but unfortunately I wasn't wired that way. Im lucky enough to train with a competitive age group squad - which is entertaining - since they get ground drills if I beat them on a sprint or they fade and I lead a lane.
That said, I was browsing through some masters records here in Ireland and may take a closer look this year at one or two of them - but we'll see.
re: war stories ... fubar sets Ill divulge but rarely publish em since in the wrong environment (on here) imho it can easily be seen as something its not, the rest is too incriminating 0 -
@ Interested....oh...I'm definitely trying to get my gas money back! and stay within striking distance in the challenge....
Normal....yes....life was definitely not normal to those looking in, but to us in that type of life, it's all we knew. I wouldn't trade those experiences (and self-discipline) for anything.
My military coach was a scorned woman who was a Colonel in the Army. Mean as crap and borderline abusive. I swam for her for a year or so while in high school...I think my parents grew tired of her harsh tactics on us youngin's so I moved on to a wonderful team whose coach was one of the coaches for the US Olympic team. What a better environment he provided. I definitely enjoyed my years with him.
Masters records?? Oh no! Good luck if you decide to go for any of them...I hope you decide to blow them to bits!
War stories....wrong environment....incriminating.:) If you ever need to get anything off your chest, I'm just an email or personal message away! 0 -
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We are all obsessed!
Even those of us at the back end of it:)
It's a bloody curse!donothoponpop wrote: »Hey Dory!
Your enthusiasm is fantastic, and you're a real positive addition to these training logs..
But!
("unasked for advice" warning...)
What's your A1 goal? Is it the marathon? Or an unspecified triathlon? Or just general training in itself, because you love it? (nothing wrong with that per se).
Because if its the marathon (and I suspect it is), you should lower your goal time, and follow a stricter running program.
(Like I said, UFA:D)
Wow. Nothing like a "But!" after a build up to make the heart sink. But coming from you, it's okay.
A1 goal at this very moment is definitely the marathon in 11 weeks. Goal time is a bit scary for me as I believe I have improved since my last half marathon (which is what MP is based on), but I'm not sure by how much. There is a 10 mile race next month I'm thinking about signing up for to give me a feel for where I am, but I have to see if it will work into my schedule/life as it does involve a little bit of travel. As far as stricter running program, what do you mean? I am following a plan right now...and I do think it's contributed to my improvement (and confidence at distance)....and I have met every target thus far, but have you a plan you like best?
Other races that I will give thought to in the near future are the Achill half marathon in July and then a triathlon event. It would be a blast to compete in a tri in Ireland with some of the boardies, but our little town here holds a tri event in August, so that's always an option too.0 -
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Dory I agree, the training youre doing is not marathon focussed. Hell, your top ten in the challenge surrounded by IM and HIM wannabes I think that says it all. So you are spreading your resources as it were. Now if you don't care then it really don't matter. Enjoying your training is the main thing. I think the But that sank your heart is only saying that you are capable of a VERY fast marathon but not so much if you dilute your effort in the other disciplines. Just food for thought I suppose. I'm just jealous of what you're capable of tbh. 0
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donothoponpop wrote: »I like P&D for marathons, but that's 100% running. I don't know anything about your program, and it will be fascinating to see what time you do. Those swim sessions... savage. From my limited knowledge, it looks like you're training for a Tri right now, rather than a marathon. But, I stress, that could be down to my limited outlook.
Your 20 miler, in 3:02, feeling strong at the end... wow. Conventional wisdom would say you run 21 or 22 miles in training, in the same time it will take you to do the marathon. And thats about 4 weeks out from the goal race; you've 10 or 11 weeks to go yet. Your training isn't in any way (that I know) conventional, but its fascinating to read. I reckon you'll be on for a monster time.
In the spirit of full disclosure, prior to Jan. 1, I was into probably my second week of marathon training (Furman Institute 16 week plan) with only distant thoughts (translation: putting off thoughts until after the marathon) of preparing for a tri. My sole focus was on running and preparing for April 7th. After Jan. 1, I quite zealously jumped into the SBR challenge and the dynamics of my thoughts and training shifted just a bit. I have been concerned/curious how adding cycling (and swimming) would impact my running, but so far I think it has made me stronger. Is there a break point where the cycling/swimming will actually start to hurt my running? I have no idea. (see below....)Dory I agree, the training youre doing is not marathon focussed. Hell, your top ten in the challenge surrounded by IM and HIM wannabes I think that says it all. So you are spreading your resources as it were. Now if you don't care then it really don't matter. Enjoying your training is the main thing. I think the But that sank your heart is only saying that you are capable of a VERY fast marathon but not so much if you dilute your effort in the other disciplines. Just food for thought I suppose. I'm just jealous of what you're capable of tbh.
I'm not sure if I am actually diluting my efforts since I have not veered from the marathon plan other than to add to it. Perhaps you could argue that I am diluting my energy? Maybe that's what you mean. But I am still putting in the same miles and hitting my targets with the marathon plan that I would be putting in/hitting without adding cycling/swimming. Will this catch up to me? Perhaps.
I do fear you have given me more credit than I deserve...that perhaps I just train well and will only put in a mediocre performance come race day. Gulp. And you have also given me food for thought. I will do much thinking while running tomorrow's 18 miler. Thanks. 0 -
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donothoponpop wrote: »It's a fascinating training program. But (to paraphrase a great Irish Politician), it is working for you in practice, now will it work in theory?;)
Only one way to found out what breaks you. Are you following the FIRST Faster Finish program, and supplementing off days with monster swims, and turbo's? Doing things the way you are, could be generating huge aerobic and endurance qualities, while spreading the stress/injury load. It's very interesting to see your strong progress.
The plan you link is basically the one I'm doing (same outfit, but mine is 16 weeks, and perhaps some minor differences) And yes, I am supplementing off days (and even on key run days) with monster swims and turbos. My basic workout format is as follows:
Key run #1...plus 3 - 5 miles added on at an easy pace....plus 10ish miles on the trainer.
Off day.....big mileage on trainer...and either no run or short easy run.
Key run #2...plus 3 - 5 miles added on at an easy pace....plus 10ish miles on trainer.
Off day....big mileage on trainer...and either no run or short easy run.
Off day...total rest.
Key run #3....plus a 10ish recovery spin on the trainer.
Off day....swim.
Again, all miles are put in that the marathon plan requires, and so far target times have been met. I have not missed a session. I understand we are to get an ice storm tonight, so I may have to put off my 18 mile key run #3 until Sunday, so I'll have to do some swapping out. Plus, I probably won't swim this weekend, but may have the opportunity to swim twice next week (yay!), so that means a little creative shifting with the trainer is in order. PLUS, this week I'll ease off just a bit so I can have a recovery week....but then (hopefully???) back at it the next week....unless I conclude otherwise. In conclusion...I'm basically training for a marathon and following a marathon plan PLUS training like a triathlete, I think. 0 -
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I think.
It's very unfair of me to question your program, and if I have put any doubt into your plans, I apologize. I thought about not posting initally, but my selfish curiosity got the better of me. You're more clued in than most attempting their first marathon (certainly much more so than I was), and your training and results are bearing fruit. I think you've thunk about your schedule as much as it should be thunk (I think), and its working extremely well. I'd say carry on, and I can't give any more "experienced" marathon training advice than that; in fact I'm looking at your program as a model I want to learn from.
Wordplay from me from now on, I'll go back to what I know about:D0 -
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I remember ronanmac making big improvements on his running last year running the same amount as he always had done on the Furman plan. His reckoning was that the swimming and cycling on his off days brought his run endurance on overall.
I dont know if what you are doing Dory is that wrong. Absolutley if you are tired the first and second things you should drop is the swimming and turbo but if you look at some other guys on that top ten list
Jackyback - Looking for a sub 3 marathon
Izoard - doing Donadea Conn Ultra and Abu Dhabi Long distance triathlon
Racoon - Doing Donadea and Conn Ultra I think and a Half Ironman
I dont think its that hard at this stage to make top ten - I am on week 4 of Don Finks program and at the moment its not enough training to keep me from going a little bananas. (I wont be complaining about that in a month or so)
Although I do think your little (OD) looks out of place among all the IM and HIM around you. I reckon the way you are going you could do some damage over a longer Triathlon distance and perhaps claim a few age grade prizes in some bigger events.
I give you the SAVAGEMAN
Drop the driving perhaps to the pool, an hour to and back seems crazy, I reckon unless Interested comes back in later on you are a nailed on cert to win the swim section once the back yard swimming pool kicks in anyways.
I definitely feel the cycling in particular has made me a stronger runner PLUS has helped to keep the stress off my body from all that concussive plodding. I also think it's helped my knees.
It's been interesting to me that some of my best trainer sessions have been on days I've felt most tired. Seems that once I get on that bike and get 3 to 5 miles done, I just feel strong. Drop swim and cycle when I'm tired....check.
And I know....Olympic distance seems a bit out of place....but HIM/IM are scary terms though. :eek: Thanks for the Savageman link....you are too funny...but will keep it in mind. If any of you boardies want to come over and do it with me, I'll pay your entry fee!
Driving to pool does really bite, but once a week isn't too horrible. Counting the days til my pool is open......0
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