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Chronicles of a fish: the days of surf and turf

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,830 ✭✭✭catweazle


    Dory Dory wrote: »
    I asked the random gal I was running with what our pace was

    I must have read that wrong at the time - even worse - you were able to talk during a sprint - must try harder :D
    interested wrote: »
    'Balls out' Catweazle ? As opposed to 'a*se' out during your adventures at Swinford if your race reports are true ... ;)

    Even I can hold back GI issues for just over an hour, over 5 hours its in the lap of the gods gels!


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,888 ✭✭✭Dory Dory


    Trainer

    I was originally supposed to do my insane hill run on Skyline Drive tonight with a friend, but she called last minute to cancel, and I was a little relieved because I had done my spiffy tempo last night and I try and avoid two back to back days of hard running. I will try and do the hill run this weekend since I think I am seeing the benefits of uphill (and downhill) running.

    So, it was a gorgeous evening and my bike was calling me.....so, I set up the trainer on the deck by the pool and knocked out 25 thigh burning miles while jamming to the Foo Fighters and watching the sun set over the Massanutten Mountain. Luvin' being clipped in...it really does make a difference. I had entertained the idea of a post-spin swim, but I had a few distractions that monopolized too much of my time and I missed my opportunity. Only one more month of swim time..... :(

    Exciting news.....my bike guy, Kyle, contacted me today to go over a few Madone specifics, including my bike size and bike height. (oh yeah, I measured my current bike.....learning the lingo....becoming one of them there bike nerds....) Kyle told me "my" bike will probably arrive next week for me to test ride. Woo hoo!!! :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,852 ✭✭✭pgmcpq


    catweazle wrote: »
    i thought you would be doing these tempo runs at sub race pace for a marathon !

    To be honest - based on results todate you're obviously not doing much wrong - and I'd hesitate to change things this close to your marathon.

    Having said that that tempo pace is usually between 10k and HM pace .... roughly the pace that you could sustain for an hour in race conditions - based on an achieved pace rather than a target (i.e. hoped for) pace.

    Take a look at :

    http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/calculator

    and see what is suggests as optimal training pace, based on other race times.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,518 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    Exactly what pgmcpq said. Based on a marathon goal of ~3:30, tempo pace would be around 7:33/mile (Daniels). So I'm not sure if you set out to do a marathon paced session (and just ran too fast) or set out to do a tempo session (and got your pacing spot-on!), but either way, the workout was a good one. However, if 8 minute/mile is your goal, it is important to spend time running at that pace (not faster). If your super-secret goal is to go faster, then you need to get time at that pace. So for your tempo runs, run them at your tempo pace. For marathon pace runs, run them at your marathon pace.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,888 ✭✭✭Dory Dory


    I double checked the Furman plan I am following and it definitley intended for me to do this at marathon pace, but I agree with all three of you that MP is too slow for a tempo run.

    As far as my goal for the marathon, in this order - 1) definitely a PB....2) as close to 3:30 as possible....and 3) a crazy dream that a net elevation loss on the course will catapult me into sub 3:30 territory, that is unless my quads explode around mile 20. Here's the course elevation map....
    http://www.steamtownmarathon.com/4.html

    Training this time around has been SO totally different than last time....really hard for me to know where I am. I may try and get a good long progression run in this weekend to better figure what is reasonable for me. And I may sneak in a crazy hill run too! I have a love-hate relationship with these hill runs.....


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,518 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    Dory Dory wrote: »
    Training this time around has been SO totally different than last time....really hard for me to know where I am. I may try and get a good long progression run in this weekend to better figure what is reasonable for me. And I may sneak in a crazy hill run too! I have a love-hate relationship with these hill runs.....
    Well, that's a BQ course if ever there was one (congrats by the way (wear sun-screen!)). You should have saved that one until your final marathon. :) Actually, the second half is pretty flat, with just a 200 foot drop (over the course of 13 miles) which you won't even feel, so don't neglect some running on flat road (particularly at marathon pace). It would also be prudent to include some small hills right at the end of your long runs, just to try and replicate those tough little hillocks over the last three miles.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,361 ✭✭✭Kurt Godel


    Dory Dory wrote: »
    I have a love-hate relationship with these hill runs.....

    You've got a pretty healthy relationship- you love the downhills and hate the uphills. It's when you turn into one of those perverts that have it the other way around... sicko's!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,361 ✭✭✭Kurt Godel


    Perverts quit reducing subsiding tempos.

    (forgot I have to stay the course- finished soon!)


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,888 ✭✭✭Dory Dory


    Kurt Godel wrote: »
    Perverts quit reducing subsiding tempos.

    (forgot I have to stay the course- finished soon!)

    And then maybe you can do it in reverse fashion!!! ;):D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,361 ✭✭✭Kurt Godel


    Dory Dory wrote: »
    And then maybe you can do it in reverse fashion!!! ;):D

    Uncanny Virginian Wins! X-rated yelpstrewn zenithline! :D


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,888 ✭✭✭Dory Dory


    Kurt Godel wrote: »
    Uncanny Virginian Wins! X-rated yelpstrewn zenithline! :D

    Be still my heart. <swoon> ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,888 ✭✭✭Dory Dory


    I usually like to knock out my LSRs on Saturday to get them out of the way for the weekend, but I attended the Bruce Springsteen concert in DC last night and did not get home until after 3am, and then I had to be up by 5:30am to get to work on time, so I decided that it may not be the most intelligent thing to run for 3 hours on only 2 hours of sleep and to defer the LSR until tomorrow. I opted instead for a long nap after work and a spin-swim session when I returned home from work for the second time.

    Spin-Swim

    Stunning day today that turned into an even more stunning evening - this truly is the best time of year here in the valley. I set the bike on the trainer on the pool deck and embarked on one very spiritual spin while awash in the waning sun and losing myself in some of the best soul renewing music known to mankind. ;) Steady I went, with constant effort from my thighs. Never letting up, I tried to visualize the steady effort I will need in the marathon even when my body has reached its limit. Nice 29 mile session tonight, even if I was under the watchful eye of the overfed, half naked farmer who was baling hay in our field. I'm sure he thought I was half nuts perched on my bike in my bathing suit singing in animated fashion to songs he could not hear. :)

    Tossed the bike shoes off and hopped into the pool. Good grief it's a slice of heaven to be in an 85 degree pool when the air temp is in the low 70s/upper 60s. I did notice, however, the cool air when my arms were out of the water. Lovely swim. Lovely 2,000 yards. Didn't really want to get out of the pool, but the sun had retired and I was getting hungry. I do have one complaint - my towel gets cool waiting for me in the chilly air and I much prefer being wrapped up in something toasty warm. A poolside towel warmer would be grand :D, but I'm just not sure hubby will be feeling it. :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,888 ✭✭✭Dory Dory


    17 Mile LSR

    I had originally entertained the idea of running 20 miles today (marathon is three weeks out, and it seems everyone does 20 miles three weeks out) but felt that was foolish considering I did 20 last weekend, am still running low on gas from the concert Friday night, and woke up with the sniffles this morning (probably because I'm running low on gas from the concert Friday night) - so, I settled on 17 miles.

    Had to go into work early this morning, but cut out as soon as I could and headed down to the Greenway to get this out of the way. My hope was that today's run would give me an idea of what kind of shape I'm in and what might be a realistic target time. I decided beforehand that I'd want my overall average pace to be right around my goal MP, 8 min/mile.....and I entertained the idea of making this a nice progression run, but that didn't quite work out - just wasn't in the cards today.

    Highlights of the run: First 5 miles felt easy....started to feel low on energy (and started to feel last night's 29 mile hard trainer session in my legs) between mile 6 and 7 so I stopped for a drink, gummi bears, piece of a marathon bar, and to stretch. Got a few stitches (probably from consuming too much food and water) on mile 8.....started feeling better on mile 9, and felt really good on miles 10 through 12. Mile 13 is when this run became a real effort for me, and this is when I started to feel a little nauseated so I stopped for another brief break. Got going again, but miles 14 through 16 were tough to keep pace. After mile 16, I knew I had enough sub-MP miles banked so I could make mile 17 a cool down mile, and thank god for that - didn't have much left in me at that point.

    17.1 miles in 2:16:13 for an average pace of 7:58 min/mile.
    Splits as follows:
    8:16, 8:05, 7:58, 7:54
    7:47, 7:55, 7:49, 8:01
    7:57, 7:56, 7:45, 7:50
    7:56, 7:48, 7:55, 7:47
    8:50 (cool down)

    I'm lukewarm about this run. Yes, I met my goal of MP pace, but I also know it was by the skin of my teeth that I did, and I also know how much effort it took in doing so. I also know this course was not challenging - only slight rolling hills up and down. And I know I'm not 100% physically today - need some rest and some good nutrition - so that's something to keep in mind when I'm assessing today's performance. In the end, I'd say the jury is still out on any solid marathon pace/time prediction for the big day. I just don't feel I nailed today's session, but it wasn't without merit either.


  • Registered Users Posts: 240 ✭✭Runonewon


    Dory how do you stay so committed to your training,it is truly awesome.I fall of the training wagon on a regular basis and I only run!.If I had to swim and cycle I would be a former athlete by now.You are doing a great job I really hope you get the great performance your efforts deserve.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,888 ✭✭✭Dory Dory


    Runonewon wrote: »
    Dory how do you stay so committed to your training,it is truly awesome.I fall of the training wagon on a regular basis and I only run!.If I had to swim and cycle I would be a former athlete by now.You are doing a great job I really hope you get the great performance your efforts deserve.

    Aww, thanks. I guess my life is set up for training - no kids, our own business, we live in a beautiful area, and a hubby who rides his bike ALL the time. Plus, I was conditioned at an early age as a swimmer to be disciplined and train regularly. But look at you!! Mr. 1:25:xx half marathon man!! Look at how far you have come. You are the amazing one, not me. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,830 ✭✭✭catweazle


    Good running there - you probably went into the race pace a bit early but good solid stuff all the same! How was the boss, was it another 5 hour set from the great man. I think some council in England had to shut off the lights to get him off the stage during the summer, fair play to him he always does his best (bit like you ;))


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭shotgunmcos


    I echo what yer man said. You have some commitment and self discipline wrapped in a wonderful attitude that almost masks how bloody hard you work!


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,888 ✭✭✭Dory Dory


    catweazle wrote: »
    Good running there - you probably went into the race pace a bit early but good solid stuff all the same! How was the boss, was it another 5 hour set from the great man. I think some council in England had to shut off the lights to get him off the stage during the summer, fair play to him he always does his best (bit like you ;))
    I echo what yer man said. You have some commitment and self discipline wrapped in a wonderful attitude that almost masks how bloody hard you work!

    Aw shucks, fellas. :o Thanks. :)

    Catweazle....Bruce was awesome. I've seen him 3 times - and all at a variety of stages in his career. The first time was right after his album The River was released in the early 80s (yes, I know I'm old)....then again about 10 years ago (after The Rising was released, I believe)...and then Friday night (Wrecking Ball tour). He is old school - no opening act, it's all Bruce and the Band for 4 plus hours without any intermissions (thus the reason I did not get home until after 3 Saturday morning!!). He's 62 and he can put any musical youngin' to shame with his energy and effort. And he loves his audience and does not act like a primadonna - he is accessible to his fans. As you know, Clarence Clemons passed away and left a huge hole in the band, but Clarence's nephew, Jake, has stepped up to the plate and is knocking it out of the park over and over again. He's quite an accomplished sax player and recieved some of the loudest applause of the evening. One of my favorite songs of the night was American Land - love the message (they all have a message), and has a Celtic feel to it, as do several of his songs.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anSQtsuX6HE

    And you are correct, I probably got into MP too soon today. I need to work on going too fast too soon!!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,888 ✭✭✭Dory Dory


    Swim

    2,000 glorious yards in the evening light. I needed to give my body some hydro-love after the 17 mile beating it took today, and this did the trick! :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,888 ✭✭✭Dory Dory


    Recovery Run

    It occurred to me today as my legs were screaming bloody murder from yesterday's 17 mile run that it's been ages since I've done a proper recovery run. With all that triathlon training nonsense this summer, I've been using cross training as my recovery....but tonight I decided to run....slowly.

    The field was my venue of choice, and while there were no resting deer for me to scare up this evening, there was one adorable juvenile bunny rabbit who insisted on hanging out in my path and was quite exasperated each time I passed by him. He was persistent, however, and was there lounging 5 out of the 7 times I passed.....and the last time I passed, he was so bold that I actually had to go around him - he didn't even get out of my way!

    Any way...legs wrecked from yesterday's run...and were stiff and sore on the first mile or two, but were feeling much better by mile three or four. It's been forever since I've been "allowed" to run slowly that this was a treat for me. Thought how lovely this pace would be in the marathon. :o

    5.03 miles in 46:56.92 for an average pace of 9:19 min/mile.

    Swim

    Couldn't resist a quick post-recovery-run swim to further "heal" the body. 1,200 heavenly yards.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,518 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    Dory Dory wrote: »
    Recovery Run
    Thought how lovely this pace would be in the marathon. :o
    Save that talk for when you're competing for the F80 prize!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭Younganne


    Thought how lovely this pace would be in the marathon

    DD, how lovely that would be for some of us to manage to hold that pace for a marathon ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,888 ✭✭✭Dory Dory


    Younganne wrote: »
    DD, how lovely that would be for some of us to manage to hold that pace for a marathon ;)

    Based on your most recent sizzling half marathon :), McMillan indicates that you should be capable of going well under 4 hours in your upcoming full marathon thus giving you a pace of 8:5x. Just sayin'...... ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,852 ✭✭✭pgmcpq


    Bruce is a cross training session ! Saw him at his home coming in NJ a few months ago. Never really "got" him until I came to the US.

    On the MP session. I don't think anyone every really nails these. It's a trade off between turning the pace into the legs and not leaving your race out on the training route. Fully tapered - you'll nail it when it counts.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,888 ✭✭✭Dory Dory


    pgmcpq wrote: »
    Bruce is a cross training session ! Saw him at his home coming in NJ a few months ago. Never really "got" him until I came to the US.

    On the MP session. I don't think anyone every really nails these. It's a trade off between turning the pace into the legs and not leaving your race out on the training route. Fully tapered - you'll nail it when it counts.

    Thanks for the pep talk because I'm right on schedule for the doubts to come sneaking in, and a few have already slipped through the cracks. Even chuckled to myself after Sunday's run that I needed to find a 3 week marathon plan to whip me into 26.2 mile, 8 min/mile shape! Ha! Wouldn't that be grand!!?? My training this time around has been helter skelter with the triathlon and the heat and my slight boredom with my training plan.....all of which has translated into probably more hours of training, but fewer miles of running. We'll consider this a science project of sorts to determine correlations of training time and running mileage, as well as other coefficients and factors and hyperboles and tangential equations. ;) But hey, what an awesome sounding 22 mile run you had this weekend, even if it was while you were babysitting the annoying hanger on. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,852 ✭✭✭pgmcpq


    Dory Dory wrote: »
    Thanks for the pep talk because I'm right on schedule for the doubts to come sneaking in, and a few have already slipped through the cracks. Even chuckled to myself after Sunday's run that I needed to find a 3 week marathon plan to whip me into 26.2 mile, 8 min/mile shape! Ha! Wouldn't that be grand!!??

    Early onset taper madness - take one deep breath and sleep late in the morning. :)

    You realise you are in shape already. Trust the training.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,888 ✭✭✭Dory Dory


    Treadmill Intervals

    I woke up this morning and was amazed how my legs had been "healed" by my lovely recovery run last night. Could that really be possible?? Does a recovery run have that kind of magic on wrecked legs?? Well....to my disgust while churning out this spiffy session, my legs felt grand but my feet felt like concrete. But I got it done....hating life and forcing myself to relax while sweat was dripping off of me.

    The session was pretty simple, and included .25 mile recovery in between the fast intervals:
    1 mile warmup
    4 x .5 mile intervals at 6:40 min/mile
    4 x .25 mile intervals at 6:00 min/mile
    1.25 mile cool down.

    7 miles in ~59 minutes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,518 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    Running is good for running! Who knew?! :)
    Great session!


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,888 ✭✭✭Dory Dory


    Reconnaissance Recovery Run

    I got the nod today to go forth with planning a run in our town to benefit the National Zoo, so I did a little reconnaissance run to start plotting a few course options. I figure the run should be as inclusive as possible, so I'm thinking perhaps three distances to satisfy everyone's needs - 5k, 10k, and either a 10 mile or half marathon. Tonight I wanted to see how close I could get to a 10k by doing a loop beginning and ending at Lake Arrowhead (where our triathlon is held) - and not only did I get very, very close, but I also discovered a wonderful 6 mile course that had a little of everything - hills, flats, tree cover, and great scenery. Jackpot!!! Other than the little ankle biter I encountered who was more like an alligator on a stick than man's best friend as he was trying to take my leg off (damn if i didn't forget my mace again!), it was a delightful adventure tonight!

    I may post the Garmin data to this run tomorrow as an edit to this post - I'm very curious about the hills in this run as they were not insignificant and I handled them with no problem. :) I practiced what I had read recently about running uphill - keep your upper body open, look ahead and not down, use your arms in a forward and back motion (like they way Kurt explained), and bend slightly forward at the hips (not the waist)...and I think this helped keep me strong and motoring at a steady pace. It also helped that this was a recovery run - I kept it easy and relaxed. Felt great during this entire jaunt tonight! Loving these easy runs. :D Oh, and there were a few nice downhills for me to practice too - need a few more downhill sessions over the next couple of weeks, but I do need to be mindful of my right knee that sometimes gives me a bit of trouble.

    Per Garmin:
    6 miles in 52:41.73 for an average pace of 8:46 min/mile.

    Another lovely marathon pace methinks!! ;)

    Edit - Garmin link...

    http://connect.garmin.com/activity/224861942


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,888 ✭✭✭Dory Dory


    Tempo Run

    Hmmmm....what to say, what to say??
    Gorgeous day, gorgeous night, gorgeous run. :D

    Down to the Greenway I went after work to check off the scheduled 5 mile tempo, but I have to be honest with you, I wasn't thrilled and really wanted to bag the run - but, I would never do that. We all have momentary thoughts of chucking a session, but when push comes to shove we get our arses in gear and get it going. And get it going I did. Based on my discussion last week with a few of you peeps about proper tempo pace, I decided I wanted this run to average 7:30 to 7:40 min/mile.

    Highlights as follows:
    Approached the first mile as a pseudo-warm-up. The first half of the first mile was at an easy 8:15 min/mile pace, then I started to speed it up a bit.
    I kept reminding myself to use self-control and to keep my pace where it needed to be to ensure I could see this run through without blowing up or wanting to stop. Mile 2 was nice.
    I looked at the watch about halfway into mile 3 and knew I had to ease off the gas when I saw I was running at a 7:10 pace. I eased off the gas and relaxed the body, but my pal Kurt popped in my mind and he reminded me to use my swimmer's upper body strength and pump the arms forward and back. And pump I did, and I believe this allowed me to recover my body without losing too much pace. Very cool. Thank you Kurt!
    Mile 4 was the same scenario - looked at watch, 7:08 was pace, eased off gas and relaxed, concentrated on arm pump.
    Mile 5 was all about finishing without dying....and all about the arm pump.

    Not that I know a thing about running, but I think this may have been one of my smartest tempos with high quality speed and control. I'm happy enough with this run. :)

    Per Garmin:
    5.01 miles in 37:04.54 for an average pace of 7:23 min/mile.
    Splits as follows:
    7:52, 7:23, 7:20, 7:13, 7:10

    Cool down: .66 mile in 6:13.12 for an average pace of 9:29 min/mile.

    (need to update SBR totals.....:o)


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