Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 - Mod Note 4153

manual_man

Mr Alan wrote: »

I would hazard a guess that we have leaned towards English players

Was that an intended pun

Blatter

Mr Alan wrote: »

I would hazard a guess that we have leaned towards English players for the time being as without the bait of CL (or even Europa League) football, they are the demographic we are most attractive to.

It seems to me that you are targeting more British players due the homegrown rule and actively attempting to build a side with a British core for team morale purposes.

There are plenty of talented foreign players that are willing to move to English clubs without Champions League football. Turan/Vidal moved to a club not in the CL and it seems as if Shaqiri will also be moving to Galatasaray who are not in the CL.

Kess73

Mr Alan wrote: »

You're not really who my post was aimed at :pac:
You certainly seem to know more about foreign leagues than most, although I think you'll agree that Comolli probably knows a tad more I would also question how many times you've actually watched half the players you chat **** about!

There is also the fact that your incessant ****e talk about little known players in foreign leagues means that inevitably you'll get the odd one right, while dozens will develop into nothing players :P

I think we agree that we should be aiming for a mixture of both.

I would hazard a guess that we have leaned towards English players for the time being as without the bait of CL (or even Europa League) football, they are the demographic we are most attractive to.

Funny thing is that there is as much if not more ****e talk about English players, and most of them develop into nothing players. A quick look at our own youth set up/reserves over the past 10 years or so pretty much points this out. Every season we have the same rubbish about how Young English player X in the reserves will be a star. Then three or four years later that guy is in the Championship or lower. A couple of years back Ince was our next star winger in waiting, now we have Sterling, and no doubt in two years time we will have another star winger that is just about to make it.


You question the young foreign players I mention in terms of me having seen them play, well my defence to that would be that the young foreign players that I mention are for the most part all first team players playing in leagues that get televised week in week out, where as all the English player talent spotters on here are naming players that are mostly nowhere near getting first team football and who do not get much tv footage over the course of a season if any at all.

And if many of the young players from foreign leagues I ****e talk about are unknowns to you, then you really need to get a bit of footy knowledge that goes beyond one division in England and whatever Sky tells you, as most of the young players I mention are very highly rated in Europe and get lots of air time and column inches. The football world is a lot bigger than what the English papers report on, you should give it a try sometime.:D

Dublin_Gunner

Blatter wrote: »

It seems to me that you are targeting more British players due the homegrown rule and actively attempting to build a side with a British core for team morale purposes.

There are plenty of talented foreign players that are willing to move to English clubs without Champions League football. Turan/Vidal moved to a club not in the CL and it seems as if Shaqiri will also be moving to Galatasaray who are not in the CL.

I've previously highlighted Spurs as a case in point.

From a team morale point of view as you put it - I'd rather talented foreigners that help get results than overpriced, under performing 'home grown' talent.

K-9

Well any notions about English players should be out of their heads now considering the 3 English bought have been overall poor and the non English players have all done well, even Adam has done okay!

Kess73

Blatter wrote: »

It seems to me that you are targeting more British players due the homegrown rule and actively attempting to build a side with a British core for team morale purposes.

There are plenty of talented foreign players that are willing to move to English clubs without Champions League football. Turan/Vidal moved to a club not in the CL and it seems as if Shaqiri will also be moving to Galatasaray who are not in the CL.

Of course there are plenty of very talented young foreign players that will move to clubs without CL footy. You gave a few very good examples there.

Personally I think that the idea of needing a British core for morale reasons is a very outdated one, and one better suited to an era where foreign players were in the minority in the top English league. You get the best players you can that work best as a team, and nationality does not come into that side of it.

What often cracks me up is that when talking about footy, it is often Irish lads that talk the most about needing a British/English core, and who go on the most about the boost to morale an english core brings.

I am pie

K-9 wrote: »

Well any notions about English players should be out of their heads now considering the 3 English bought have been overall poor and the non English players have all done well, even Adam has done okay!

I definitely wouldn't say Henderson has been poor. I think he has been quite promising. I would put him in the 'getting there' category.

Kess73

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

I've previously highlighted Spurs as a case in point.

From a team morale point of view as you put it - I'd rather talented foreigners that help get results than overpriced, under performing 'home grown' talent.

Would love someone to tell me that playing for the club meant less to the likes of Didi or Sami than it did for the likes of Pennant or Crouch.


Or that Lucas adds less to morale than Henderson or Downing simply because he is not British.

Paddy@CIRL

Another article here :

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2012/01/fsg-decide-on-new-stadium-report/?

Liverpool’s owners Fenway Sports Group (FSG) have decided to go ahead with plans to build a new stadium in Stanley Park, according to a report in The Telegraph.


Above: AFL’s revised design from 2008.

The report, by former Liverpool Echo reporter Chris Bascombe, claims plans from architects AFL will now be modernised and put in place, with the plans by Dallas firm HKS which former owner Tom Hicks had put in place being shelved.

It has been widely reported that principal owner John Henry’s preferred option was to remain at Anfield and redevelop the historic stadium in a similar manner as they did with the Boston Red Sox’s historic Fenway Park.

But planning constraints and the associated costs have been a huge stumbling back, Bascombe explains;

Since buying the club, John W Henry has worked through a variety of options to establish how to solve Liverpool’s enduring stadium problem.

Henry originally wanted to redevelop Anfield, but after a year of toil working through the planning issues, and the cost of buying nearby residential properties, it was accepted this was not feasible.

FSG has also explored whether to commission new stadium plans, but the time and cost restraint also made that a non-starter.
As Liverpool already have planning permission from both AFL and HKS, the AFK plans will now be used to avoid pushing the process back up to another three years if new planning permission was sought for new plans.

AFL revised proposals for new stadium was presented to Liverpool Football Club early January 2008, for which the capacity is 72,000 with 18,500 seated in the new single tier Kop.

It is now expected that once a naming right’s partner has been found the club will announce their decision to move to Stanley Park.

Hopefully it is these revised plans from 2008 that will now be used, rather than the original 2003 plans which drew large criticism from supporters for it’s lack of originality and was nicknamed ‘The Parry Bowl’ after former chief executive Rick Parry.


This is AFL’s original design from 2003.

More images of the 2008 design:

Dublin_Gunner

Kess73 wrote: »

Would love someone to tell me that playing for the club meant less to the likes of Didi or Sami than it did for the likes of Pennant or Crouch.


Or that Lucas adds less to morale than Henderson or Downing simply because he is not British.

Pick out the best players at the club over the last 10-20 years. How many have been English or foreign?

I'd argue only Gerrard, Carragher, Owen and Fowler come close to the 'foreign' talent we've had, of whom we could probably derive a list the length of your arm.

Enrique hasn't been a bad foreign signing under the new management :cool:

opr

I can't remember Ince ever being talked about that highly but anyway I hardly think he is busted docket considering he is playing in the Championship with Blackpool and is still only 19. You only need to look at the seasons Joe Cole and Milan Jovanovic are having to see the standard of those leagues.

Opr

Kess73

opr wrote: »

I can't remember Ince ever being talked about that highly but anyway I hardly think he is busted docket considering he is playing in the Championship with Blackpool and is still only 19. You only need to look at the seasons Joe Cole and Milan Jovanovic are having to see the standard of those leagues.

Opr

.



Ince was raved about by a few. Now he is not a busted docket with regards to his career, but he certainly is in terms of being a Liverpool player and a "sure thing"

opr

Kess73 wrote: »

.
Ince was raved about by a few. Now he is not a busted docket with regards to his career, but he certainly is in terms of being a Liverpool player and a "sure thing"

Honestly I think you are mixing him up with someone else. People always said he was talented but was way too greedy with very little football intelligence. I watched Tom alot in the youths and no way would anyone who knows anything about football come to the conclusion that he was a "sure thing".

Opr

Leiva

The buy "Buy British Potential" project to date looks to be an expensive failure . It's way too early to write it off totally but what I'm reading here on both sides of the current debate is let's try something different next time .

I reckon both sides would be disappointed if we went out now and spent over the odds for another English PL proven talent .**cough Bent .

Personally I think we need to add flair to the front line . Not your bog standard English "get mucked in" finisher but someone who adds creativity , a different dynamic , and who could get on the same wave length as Suarez .

I really think if we start at the front and work back you will see players like Downing , Henderson , even Adam come into their own as they would have great options in front of them for assists , but also the joy that is to behold our backline and defence behind them which Clarke has (IMO) working like clock work .

So to summarise;
I want Cavani :pac:

Kess73

opr wrote: »

Honestly I think you are mixing him up with someone else. People always said he was talented but was way too greedy with very little football intelligence. I watched Tom alot in the youths and no way would anyone who knows anything about football come to the conclusion that he was a "sure thing".

Opr

I know there were a few here that spoke about him playing like a headless chicken, and about his wage demands, but they were in the minority. I am not mixing him up with anyone else. His surname and a few good headlines on the official club site seemed to be enough for a few on here to sing his praises and claim that he was first team bound.

Look at this season. How many times have we seen people talk about Coady, Sterling, Wisdom, or Suso in terms of giving them runs in the first team? How many times have we seen Sterling called the next big thing or that he will be a huge player and that the future is bright because of him?

ASOT

I personally taught he was ****e and because of who his dad was got him that extra bit. Never seemed to have that spark whenever i seen him.

YouTookMyName

About the stadium, the more I think about it I cannot possibly believe that the same man who was responsible for keeping the Red Sox in their iconic stadium, would allow that bowl to be built. I don't care if our options were limited, or it would mean a 3-year delay while we haggle with the council over new planning permission. It's ridiculous, and it locks us into that ridiculous decision for the next 25 years minimum.

Hmmmmmmm.

alantkayll Alan Kayll
@TLW1Dan No option Dan. A 3rd set of plans would not have been approved. Its that or Hicks design. No other option available.

alantkayll Alan Kayll
@8Mick @TLW1Dan they are changing certain things Mick. We only have two options, Hicks or Parry. I'll go with Parry myself.

alantkayll Alan Kayll
@E_Z1ya Parry Bowl has planning permission, but tweaks are being done by AFL.

K-9

I am pie wrote: »

I definitely wouldn't say Henderson has been poor. I think he has been quite promising. I would put him in the 'getting there' category.

Yeah but £50 Million on 2 young English players is a hell of a lot to be spending on "potential".

Mr Alan

mixednuts wrote: »

The buy "Buy British Potential" project to date looks to be an expensive failure.

See? This is annoying. You realise the point of buying "potential" is what you get in the future, not what you get immediately?

mixednuts wrote:

It's way too early to write it off totally but what I'm reading here on both sides of the current debate is let's try something different next time .

I'm saying that both approaches are not mutually exclusive.

Lets do both.

mixednuts wrote:

Personally I think we need to add flair to the front line . Not your bog standard English "get mucked in" finisher but someone who adds creativity , a different dynamic , and who could get on the same wave length as Suarez .

It sounds to me like you're describing someone similar to Suarez?

imo we need to compliment him by bringing in someone who puts the ball in the net more. As it stands at the minute Suarez isn't anywhere near clinical enough. We need someone who's not happy unless they're banging in goals.

mixednuts wrote:

So to summarise;
I want Cavani :pac:

Me too! :P

opr

Kess73 wrote: »

I know there were a few here that spoke about him playing like a headless chicken, and about his wage demands, but they were in the minority. I am not mixing him up with anyone else. His surname and a few good headlines on the official club site seemed to be enough for a few on here to sing his praises and claim that he was first team bound.

Look at this season. How many times have we seen people talk about Coady, Sterling, Wisdom, or Suso in terms of giving them runs in the first team? How many times have we seen Sterling called the next big thing or that he will be a huge player and that the future is bright because of him?

Well the point is it certainly wasn't people who had watched Tom play.

The only player in recent times who I thought was nailed on to become a first team player from the youths was Pacheco. The thing is that now instead of me having one player with that potential we have a number. Not just that but they will be the first wave of players trained under Borrell and Segura.

btw Sterling deserves to be talked about in those terms. One of the reasons we let Tom go was because the player behind him three years his junior is already a better player. He only turned 17 last month and I watched him tear apart a really experienced Bolton reserve side on Monday night in which he was directly up against Boyata.

Opr

Leiva

Mr Alan wrote: »

See? This is annoying. You realise the point of buying "potential" is what you get in the future, not what you get immediately?

I still think it's wrong to make the same players in question first team players and go straight into the starting line up .
Take Henderson for example . I really taught he would be added here and there and not played as often as he has been. If he has a stinker (which he has) and the crowd get on his back then that can be hard on his confidence .
What I meant by the plan not working wasn't to write it off in it's early days , but to me it hasn't been applied properly.
We maybe should have gone out a bought the marquee signings first and added the potential second , because now it looks like we are going to have to do that in anyways but in reverse .

It sounds to me like you're describing someone similar to Suarez?

imo we need to compliment him by bringing in someone who puts the ball in the net more. As it stands at the minute Suarez isn't anywhere near clinical enough. We need someone who's not happy unless they're banging in goals.

Suarez banging in goals in not a problem for him at International level , Why ?
I think we are on about the same thing .
A player who compliments him must be on the same wave length as him (like say Forlan at Int level) but there is no striking partner in the current squad who is and that's so easy to see on a match day .[/quote]

Me too! :P

Good we agree on something :P

YouTookMyName

opr

Sorry Kess.

garbosj Ian McGarry
Eden Hazard expects an agreement to be reached with #CFC for his transfer this week. Personal terms are close to completion. Fee approx 28m€

Jesus if true they will have added in the right areas with a quality CB and a winger this window.

Opr

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

YouTookMyName wrote: »

So the cloning of Patrick Stewart wasn't just a Star Trek movie plot then?

amiable

JenChang88 Jen Chang
Last 2 seasons, Defoe's success rate on converting "clear chances" according to EPL index is 1 out of 16. That's a 6% rate

manual_man

amiable wrote: »

JenChang88 Jen Chang
Last 2 seasons, Defoe's success rate on converting "clear chances" according to EPL index is 1 out of 16. That's a 6% rate

Kind of unfair, considering he's never been given a consistent run of games

edit. this season

last season played most of time and returned 18 league goals. only stat that counts

edit. 7 league goals this season from 819 mins

stick-dan

opr wrote: »

It's not about one specific player but the fact the transfers from the outside look lazy. The players we have bought have all been premiership players having a good season just gone with the exception of Bellamy.

The only two outside of that sphere have been the below.

Suarez ---- Scouted under the old regime.
Coates ---- Easy to see how we stumbled upon him.

Now one of the main guys we have been linked with this window is Teixeira. He is from the same village as Suarez! Once again hardly inspiring work from our scouting team!

Opr

I've got it! Seeing as suarez likes to take a few weeks off around christmas every year it seems :P We could just let him be our scout! :P

kop77

***

@dani37pacheco Daniel Pacheco
I couldn't managed to go to Gary ablett's funeral. My injury's treatment didn't allow me to travel. I would love being there by his side

@dani37pacheco Daniel Pacheco
To thanks him all he have done for me. He was an amazing people and he got his tribute today. Rest in Pace Gary. We allready miss you! YNWA

ASOT

kop77 wrote: »

***

Whats the deal with him? did we loan him out then he was loaned out by the club we loaned him to ? Athletico i think was it?

Sappy404

There's talk of Fulham moving for Odemwingie, bidding £3m with WBA valuing him at £5m.

We could do worse.

missingtime

The Liverpool bug really bit Pacheco I think. Its a shame that it never really worked out for him.

I've followed him (in stats only) at his time on loan with Rayo and he has 8 starts from the bench with no goals or assists.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/player/_/id/108314/dani-pacheco?cc=5739

Mr Alan

Wouldn't be overly happy with the signing of Defoe tbh, unless it was on loan until the end of the season.

opr

NextGenSeries NextGeneration
NextGen Series Semi-Final #1 - The winner of Tottenham Hotspur vs. Liverpool will play the winner of FC Barcelona vs AFC Ajax. #NextGen

Opr

amiable

opr wrote: »

NextGenSeries NextGeneration
NextGen Series Semi-Final #1 - The winner of Tottenham Hotspur vs. Liverpool will play the winner of FC Barcelona vs AFC Ajax. #NextGen

Opr

a handy one so

Turtyturd

Mr Alan wrote: »

Wouldn't be overly happy with the signing of Defoe tbh, unless it was on loan until the end of the season.

Like wise, if it was on loan to the end of the season I would be indifferent to it. He is not a long term signing, at most we would get 3 years out of him then be in the same position again, best to just bite the bullet now and invest in decent quality for the long term.

opr

amiable wrote: »

a handy one so

lol, well it was going to that side or the one with Sporting and honestly not sure which one is worse :pac: Have to get past a very very good Spurs side first before thinking about it.

Opr

amiable

Newcastle close to signing Papiss Cisse for around 10 million

Knex*

opr wrote: »

NextGenSeries NextGeneration
NextGen Series Semi-Final #1 - The winner of Tottenham Hotspur vs. Liverpool will play the winner of FC Barcelona vs AFC Ajax. #NextGen

Opr

amiable wrote: »

a handy one so

Our year.

ASOT

Off topic i know lads but check this out.

http://irc.lv/video?id=al5VI6ba3DIH

Turtyturd

RorySmithTimes Rory Smith
Villas-Boas at pains to dismiss #cfc links with Hazard last week. Could have been to throw papers off scent, but didn't feel like that.

Little something to keep Kess hanging in there.;)

amiable

Turtyturd wrote: »

Little something to keep Kess hanging in there.;)

That to me suggests that Rory smith thinks a deal is likely

Knex*

amiable wrote: »

Newcastle close to signing Papiss Cisse for around 10 million

That could be an excellent signing for them. We could do a lot worse than 10m for him to be honest.

djPSB

Due to the recent success of newcastle's scouting system i think we should just buy every player they're in for.

Starting with Papiss Cisse. Looks like value at 10m.

Sappy404

Knex. wrote: »

That could be an excellent signing for them. We could do a lot worse than 10m for him to be honest.

He's at the ANC too though isn't he? I wonder if they're looking long-term to replace Ba?

amiable

Sappy404 wrote: »

He's at the ANC too though isn't he? I wonder if they're looking long-term to replace Ba?

According to Sky he flew in to Tyneside today to complete the move and then fly back to the ACN

Sappy404

djPSB wrote: »

Due to the recent success of newcastle's scouting system i think we should just buy every player they're in for.

Starting with Papiss Cisse. Looks like value at 10m.

That might work, but we're following the Spurs model - doing all of our business on the last day of the window.

Knex*

Sappy404 wrote: »

He's at the ANC too though isn't he? I wonder if they're looking long-term to replace Ba?

Yeah had forgotten that. I hope its a replacement for Ba because the two of them together would have serious potential to be an amazing partnership and would embarrass the striking options we have available at Liverpool.
Think Cisse is only around 25 as well so they would get a good few years out of him and his best years at that.

amiable

His age is rumoured to be 26

opr

Great interview/chat with Didi Hamann on The Anfield Wrap this week. Starts about 55 minutes in for anyone interested.

Didi on Lucas "I have always felt he was an exceptional player"

http://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2012/01/the-anfield-wrap-episode-twenty-five/

Opr