Is it compulsory to have to buy €10 worth of groceries with a debit card.

bodhrandude

I walked into a grocery in Salthill today, I just needed a small tub of butter but was skint, I knew I had about €5 or €6 euro in my debit visa card, so I tried to buy the butter with that, but was told by the assistant that I needed to buy €10 worth of messages before they would accept the card. Yet in Supervalu yesterday I bought about €7 euro worth using my debit card, what gives, is this compulsory or can small shops just make their own rules around this?

MyKeyG

bodhrandude wrote: »

I walked into a grocery in Salthill today, I just needed a small tub of butter but was skint, I knew I had about €5 or €6 euro in my debit visa card, so I tried to buy the butter with that, but was told by the assistant that I needed to buy €10 worth of messages before they would accept the card. Yet in Supervalu yesterday I bought about €7 euro worth using my debit card, what gives, is this compulsory or can small shops just make their own rules around this?

Unless I was lied to every debit card transaction costs somewhere in the region of 35c. Some shops choose to foot the charge for all amounts others demand a minimum spend.

ronkmonster

bodhrandude wrote: »

I walked into a grocery in Salthill today, I just needed a small tub of butter but was skint, I knew I had about €5 or €6 euro in my debit visa card, so I tried to buy the butter with that, but was told by the assistant that I needed to buy €10 worth of messages before they would accept the card. Yet in Supervalu yesterday I bought about €7 euro worth using my debit card, what gives, is this compulsory or can small shops just make their own rules around this?

Up to the shop I think. My local will sell me a single loaf of bread (€2 approx) on my card - done it a few times so not a one off thing.

jor el

The retailer is free to set whatever restrictions they want.

lau1247

yeah i think it is to do with the charge on the card for the shop.. it's probably not worth it if it is less (with the combination of trying to get a bit out of the customer)

ScouseMouse

That butter probably got the shop about 30-40 cent, which then goes to the bank to pay the bank charge for your transaction. Add in the other charges and the shop does it for nothing.

This is why I have the ten euro limit.

UDP

MyKeyG wrote: »

Unless I was lied to every debit card transaction costs somewhere in the region of 35c. Some shops choose to foot the charge for all amounts others demand a minimum spend.

25c I believe is the norm.

maxer68

UDP wrote: »

25c I believe is the norm.

There's no norm. A small shop with a small number of transactions can pay 30c s large supermarket which is part of a huge group may pay as little as 5c

borderlinemeath

bodhrandude wrote: »

I walked into a grocery in Salthill today, I just needed a small tub of butter but was skint, I knew I had about €5 or €6 euro in my debit visa card, so I tried to buy the butter with that, but was told by the assistant that I needed to buy €10 worth of messages before they would accept the card. Yet in Supervalu yesterday I bought about €7 euro worth using my debit card, what gives, is this compulsory or can small shops just make their own rules around this?

Any retailer can set any minimum on any card purchase. The banks charge big bucks for the rental of the machines and then for the processing of every transaction made, so the costs of this are either absorbed into the business disguised as higher prices or set as a minimum spend on the machine.

It's up to the consumer to decide if they want to shop in the store that charges the minimum spend or shop in the store that charges slightly higher prices. Alternatively travel to a larger supermarket that absorbs the cost from the bank and can buy in large enough bulk to offer cheaper prices.

Convenience stores are called convenience for a reason, unfortunately consumers have to pay to have them close by and open long hours. I know mine is open 8-10 while my local Dunnes closes at 7pm.

rubadub

superscouse wrote: »

That butter probably got the shop about 30-40 cent, which then goes to the bank to pay the bank charge for your transaction.

What is the charge for people using credit cards? is there a fixed % or a min amount which is always charged.

I have seen people moaning about people using CC's to buy small amounts, not exactly sure what upsets them, years ago it would have been time but nowadays its usually faster to process CC.

What would annoy me is shops who have no lower limit on the likes of laser cards, so the price of stuff will be all increased a lot just to be certain they make up for it.

ronkmonster

rubadub wrote: »

What is the charge for people using credit cards? is there a fixed % or a min amount which is always charged.

I have seen people moaning about people using CC's to buy small amounts, not exactly sure what upsets them, years ago it would have been time but nowadays its usually faster to process CC.

What would annoy me is shops who have no lower limit on the likes of laser cards, so the price of stuff will be all increased a lot just to be certain they make up for it.

We have a single terminal in work and they charge 2% of credit card sales and 35c for laser.
There is also a fee for rental but I'm not sure what that is

ejmaztec

Isn't American Express the worst of the bunch for charging the retailer?

DubTony

American Express is so rare that in 9 years I only ever had one AMEX transaction. I remember specifically looking for it on my bill, but tbh, I can't remember if it was charged at a higher rate or not.

With the removal of Laser cards from the market, cards will primarily be Visa Or MasterCard from then on. These are traditionally charged as a percentage of the sale, so on small sales it could actually work out cheaper for retailers. Having said that, I'm out of the loop atm, so I don't know if a higher charge has been imposed. But it is about volume. Businesses that have a higher proportion of card transactions generally get a better rate, so a busy petrol station is likely to be paying a lower percentage than your local corner shop.

jonnny68

Guys - i posted this in the Ryanair thread but it might also be slightly relevant to this thread if anyone knows the answer to this would be appreciated

Have a bit of a dilemma folks, i deposited cash from my debit card to my Neteller card to book flights forgetting that the pre paid mastercard doesn't work in UK anymore, was flying from LBA > Dub so instead i just booked one way from
Dub > LBA but i still have to book the first flight but Neteller charge €7.50 withdrawal fee to bank accounts or €4 to withdraw at an ATM, i will feel aggrived if i have to pay a fee to get my money back which i need to deposit back into by bank to book the fight from LBA > Dub (and unfortunately have to pay the fees)

What i have noticed on the Neteller FAQ's is if you use your Neteller card in a supermarket there are no fees for doing that so what im wondering is if i go to my local Tesco here in Dublin and buy something and if i ask for cash back can i just get the cash back then without having to pay any fees which im obviously looking to avoid?

Cheers

Corruptedmorals

ejmaztec wrote: »

Isn't American Express the worst of the bunch for charging the retailer?

Yes. This and the fact that it isn't even a common card mean that very few shops actually accept it- some big names even won't take them. Dunnes will- you'd get maybe one a month, but that was a city-centre store. Suburban ones could go a long time without seeing one.

compsys

I've just come back from Iceland and everywhere, and I mean EVERYWHERE accepted credit and debit cards no matter how big or small the transaction. From restaurants, to tourist shops, to taxis and bars, your card was accepted all the time. You literally could go the whole day without having to withdraw cash. It was brilliant and so refreshing. I even went into a church to buy some postcards and they accepted my laser card!

Ireland seriously needs to reduce its dependence on cash and move with the times.

ScouseMouse

compsys wrote: »

I've just come back from Iceland and everywhere, and I mean EVERYWHERE accepted credit and debit cards no matter how big or small the transaction. From restaurants, to tourist shops, to taxis and bars, your card was accepted all the time. You literally could go the whole day without having to withdraw cash. It was brilliant and so refreshing. I even went into a church to buy some postcards and they accepted my laser card!

Ireland seriously needs to reduce its dependence on cash and move with the times.

I agree completely, but we are still getting strangled by the banks.

That pound of butter may give me 50c (roughly).

Customer uses a card.

About 30c goes to the bank in fee. About 20 cent goes to bank again as a transaction charge when machine lodges to bank, about 15 euro per month goes to machine provider for rent of machine. Minimum charge kicks in from bank if I dont do X amount of transactions.

Someone like Dunnes/Tesco/Supervalu has volume and clout to reduce and absorb charges. Average spend in a supermarket may be 30 euro +, average spend in a small local shop may be 8 EURO and thats only because of small margin items like phone credit and cigs.

I cannot support card transactions like that. If someone comes in and spends 20 euro on groceries/sweets/minerals, I make money so I can afford card transactions.

Come in and buy 20 smokes or a bus ticket, and my machine will currently be out of order.:rolleyes:, I used to say it as it was, but people - like the OP, only got wound up.

Just telling you as it is. I really dont like the hassle but its a business necessity at present.

MyKeyG

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Convenience stores are called convenience for a reason, unfortunately consumers have to pay to have them close by and open long hours. I know mine is open 8-10 while my local Dunnes closes at 7pm.

Having to spend over ten Euro when all you need is a pint of milk and a loaf of bread isn't very convenient though:(

ScouseMouse

MyKeyG wrote: »

Having to spend over ten Euro when all you need is a pint of milk and a loaf of bread isn't very convenient though:(

Thats a fair point, but now you can see BOTH sides of the equation.

paconnors

My Local Shop charges 20c if the debit card is under 7.50 in which i have no problem with.

borderlinemeath

MyKeyG wrote: »

Having to spend over ten Euro when all you need is a pint of milk and a loaf of bread isn't very convenient though:(

No you don't have to spend over ten euro. That's your choice if you want to use your card. Use cash and spend as little of it or as much as you want.

If you are really stuck for money and haven't got €10 to withdraw then have the inconvenience of travelling to the larger supermarket.

I've just come back from Iceland and everywhere, and I mean EVERYWHERE accepted credit and debit cards no matter how big or small the transaction. From restaurants, to tourist shops, to taxis and bars, your card was accepted all the time. You literally could go the whole day without having to withdraw cash. It was brilliant and so refreshing. I even went into a church to buy some postcards and they accepted my laser card!

Ireland seriously needs to reduce its dependence on cash and move with the times.

I for one do not want a cashless society. Part of the reason this country is in the financial gutter is due to consumer spending on a reckless scale and the majority of that is on cards. If you don't see the cash it doesn't hurt your pocket as much. A lot of people were walking around with 3 or 4 credit cards in their wallets and spending huge amounts on holidays/home appliances/furniture on a whim, without even thinking of when the bill rolled in.

All the banks were offering balance switching for 0% apr for 6months or a year so it was forgotton about again, and again, and again until a year later and then this bill had to be paid. A good few people I know don't have a mortgage but still have a chunk of personal debt due to credit card bills and personal loans/car loans. And the interest rates on these are far higher than mortgages.

At least with cash, you see it, you save it, you hand over the actual money. And it feels a lot better knowing that you've put more of an effort into saving it when you do splurge, such as your trip to Iceland.

Paulw

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I for one do not want a cashless society. Part of the reason this country is in the financial gutter is due to consumer spending on a reckless scale and the majority of that is on cards.

There is a big difference though between debt on credit cards, and use of debit cards (you need the cash in your account to use the card).

I've seen both sides of this recently. In the US (spent two weeks in California) and it seems cash is king again, with the majority of transactions being with cash. While London is the opposite, where the vast majority are debit card transactions, and few people even carry cash.

Both have positives and negatives, and it just depends on how you deal with things.

Bottom line though, the banks have a large part to play, as they are putting large costs on the shops when using credit/debit cards, rather than encouraging it.

borderlinemeath

Paulw wrote: »

There is a big difference though between debt on credit cards, and use of debit cards (you need the cash in your account to use the card).

True to a degree. But a lot of existing bank customers have overdrafts, most consumers probably don't even know the charges on them. A friend of mine is in a very well paid job but has lots of outgoings in the form of direct debit and is constantly using her overdraft facility.

I have an overdraft based on the necessity that in my last job I was paid every 4 weeks rather than every month, and at certain times during the year, when the mortgage was going out of my account there might not have been enough cash to cover it. That situation has changed and I no longer use the overdraft and am only charged if I do use it. I still have the facility - just in case.

cookie1977

When I was in New Zealand all the banks had eftpos cards and they were brilliant. The transactions immediately appeared on your bank account (not like here where it can take as much as 3 days for a transaction to appear) and you could buy anything with them (even a packet of chewing gum from a small corner shop). They were accepted everywhere. I droned on and on to AIB to look at introducing them to Ireland but they never did and now they're too poor to invest in them. I imagine they didn't cost much for the shops to use them. I loved the system though and miss it alot.

ScouseMouse

cookie1977 wrote: »

When I was in New Zealand all the banks had eftpos cards and they were brilliant. The transactions immediately appeared on your bank account (not like here where it can take as much as 3 days for a transaction to appear) and you could buy anything with them (even a packet of chewing gum from a small corner shop). They were accepted everywhere. I droned on and on to AIB to look at introducing them to Ireland but they never did and now they're too poor to invest in them. I imagine they didn't cost much for the shops to use them. I loved the system though and miss it alot.

That sounds a great system but if it was just chewing gum, the profit here is about 15 cent.

The bank charges in their present form are more than that !:eek:

Tazz T

Makes perfect sense for 'convenience' stores to charge 20c for transactions under €5. My local Spar has a €5 minimum so I normally bypass Spar and walk to Superquinn cos I can use my card to buy something small like a beer. After all, most people wouldn't think it a big deal, if they forgot a bag and had to buy one.

What going to happen when we're all using contactless payment technologies which is being introduced later this year for sums under €15?

maxer68

cookie1977 wrote: »

When I was in New Zealand all the banks had eftpos cards and they were brilliant. The transactions immediately appeared on your bank account (not like here where it can take as much as 3 days for a transaction to appear) and you could buy anything with them (even a packet of chewing gum from a small corner shop). They were accepted everywhere. I droned on and on to AIB to look at introducing them to Ireland but they never did and now they're too poor to invest in them. I imagine they didn't cost much for the shops to use them. I loved the system though and miss it alot.

Its nothing whatsoever to do with aib / boi etc. It is visa who own the cards & technology, the issuers are just agents.

This near field payment system will be launched in Ireland next year - its already on test in the UK and here. There will be a different charge structure for retailers and it will encourage use for small purchases and the maximum purcase on this technology will be about €15 - purchases over €15 will use the same card but in the normal way.

ScouseMouse

Don't mean to pooh the idea folks but the new system will still come back to economics. If you try to buy chewing gum with the contact less cards, it will only happen if it's worth the shops while.

Couple of years ago, the banks tried to say cash back was another transaction and tried to double the fees. It didn't happen in the end, but I still wouldnt trust them on this.

Time will tell.

MyKeyG

borderlinemeath wrote: »

No you don't have to spend over ten euro. That's your choice if you want to use your card. Use cash and spend as little of it or as much as you want.

If you are really stuck for money and haven't got €10 to withdraw then have the inconvenience of travelling to the larger supermarket.

Well that would negate the purpose of a convenience store surely?

At least with cash, you see it, you save it, you hand over the actual money. And it feels a lot better knowing that you've put more of an effort into saving it when you do splurge, such as your trip to Iceland.

Yes but cash in your hand is easier to spend. The purpose of a debit card for many people is convenience primarily but what's the point if you can't use it in a convenient way? A secondary factor would be that you only spend what you need as opposed to taking out €20 (I don't know a single ATM that offers €10 notes any more) every time you need to buy a few items.

Personally I would have no objection to having the charge added to my bill. If I want a plastic bag it's added to my bill, why not a debit card charge?

rubadub

MyKeyG wrote: »

Well that would negate the purpose of a convenience store surely?

That might be your idea of the purpose, the shopkeeper might disagree. The purpose of most businesses is to maximise their profits, end of story. If they accepted laser cards with no explicit charge then it has to be built into the price, so everybody ends up paying more. So they might not be able to compete with larger retailers.

I expect the shopkeepers have made up their own minds, have an explicit charge and they lose some customers with debit cards. Or have the explicit charge and be able to offer lower prices to cash customers and so have more chance to compete with larger retailers.

If it was my shop I would have an explicit charge and in small print explain why. If I had a €10 limit or something it is not fair on cash payers, should they not also get (what is in effect) a discount if they spend over €10?

If I did have a limit instead of telling tales of faulty machines I would list what is excluded from the €10 limit.

If you go to a shop with a limit you should tell them they should get a charge in place, and let them know they are losing business, also offer to pay a charge.

MyKeyG

rubadub wrote: »

That might be your idea of the purpose, the shopkeeper might disagree. The purpose of most businesses is to maximise their profits, end of story. If they accepted laser cards with no explicit charge then it has to be built into the price, so everybody ends up paying more. So they might not be able to compete with larger retailers.

I'm not saying that there shouldn't be some established charge in fact quite the contrary. That was my idea at the end of my last post. Just like you get charged if you want a plastic bag you get charged for card if your purchases are under ten euro. That way the amount isn't absorbed by the business or passed onto cash customers.

It seems like the most obvious thing in the world to me.