Hard to find landlords willing to accept rent allowance (old thread)

LegacyUser

I have been on rent allowance for quite a while now, been in my last accomodation for 3.5 years but I have to move on due to my contract being up...its been up since August but the landlord has given me as much time as I need to find suitable accomodation for me & my daughter...his son is inheriting the house or something, I am kind of looking forward to moving though as the house is old and is alot of work to heat etc...

Anyway...I have been looking for nearly 4 months now (mainly on Daft as I gave my details to all local estate agents and they said all their lettings were on Daft anyway)...and I am having a tough time finding a house that the landlord will accept rent allowance on the rent...

I started off not contacting agents/landlords who had ads on Daft that say 'rent allowance not accepted'...but found I was left with no houses to look at at all...or else accomodation that you wouldnt put your dog living in let alone your family!
So I went ahead and rand all the places that wouldnt accept rent allowance and got some positive feedback that the landlord would consider it, get back to me in a while, that sort of thing.
But in the end most came back with it being too much hassle to accept rent allowance (not sure if this actually means they're not declaring their income from the rent or not, but it means no anyway). And some private landlords came back with upping the rent if they were to accept rent allowance (for example if their original rent was 650 and they know as im a single parent of one child my rent limit is now 750)

I have great references for the past 7 years which I tell them also!

I am considering trying to go it alone without rent allowance until summer next year, where hopefully I will have a job part time or something to help with the rent...(I am on OPFP also)

I work out it will cost me an average of E70 extra per week to pay my rent on my own (as I am only looking at properties that are on average 250 p/m cheaper than where I'm living now)

Just wondering if anyone has any answers as to why landlords are so against recieving rent allowance? There is a ton of houses to rent these days, more so than any other time I've been looking to move, but so many out of my (& alot of other peoples) reach?

cee_jay

Moved thread to Accom & Property as query isn't a rent allowance issue, but more focused on finding suitable accommodation.

Victor

There are various motivations for not accepting rent allowance, from a perception that the tenant will abuse the property to tax evasion.

When searching on daft.ie, go to "advanced search" and select "Are you looking for places that accept rent allowance?"

solovely

I think there are two main reasons landlords do this - simplicity and the perception that people on rent allowance won't care for the property as much as somebody paying for it themselves.

You to get a place, you really need to show that it will be easy for the landlord and you will love the place as much as you would your own.

I rented a room to a friend on rent allowance and it was zero hassle, so I think the perception that it's hassle is not true - however, I know it's different for people renting out a full house/ apartment. You need to reassure all landlords that the money is set up direct debit from your account and they will be dealing with you and only you.

As for the perceptions that people on rent allowance are not going to look after your property, whether true or not, it's a real perception out there (there's a post from a girl up above looking for the council to fully furnish and clean her new council house - stuff like this keeps people on social welfare a bad rep). You need to upfront about your references, your past history as someone who paid their rent. Say that you can't imagine being on rent allowance for more than a couple of months. Basically show yourself as an upstanding citizen who is a recent victim of the recession, and not a scrounger.

If I were you, I would go look at the places, and prove yourself to the landlord before mentioning the rent allowance, and then present it to him as something he really doesn't need to worry about.

Ray Palmer

There are lots of reason some reasonable and some not so. Ultimatly the LL has the decision and considering there is the belief that RA will be reduced in the budget is the big one at the moment. No LL is willing to take a tenant who suddenly won't be paying as much in January.

It will be more difficult to find a place at the moment than normal.

confuseddotcom

Is Rent Supplement just another word for Rent Allowance?? Just curious. I was under the impression RS was for help with mortgage assistance and RA was help with paying Rent to Landlords? But maybe it's just 2 words for the exact same thing is it? Sorry I'm just curious now, or is my hunch right.

Victor

confuseddotcom wrote: »

Is Rent Supplement just another word for Rent Allowance?? Just curious. I was under the impression RS was for help with mortgage assistance and RA was help with paying Rent to Landlords? But maybe it's just 2 words for the exact same thing is it? Sorry I'm just curious now, or is my hunch right.

You are thinking of Mortgage Interest Suplement. http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/supplementary_welfare_schemes/mortgage_interest_supplement.html

Rent Supplement and Rent Allowance are different. I get the impression that what people call Rent Allowance is actually Rent Supplement.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/supplementary_welfare_schemes/rent_supplement.html

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Publications/SW58

donegal100

I'm an amateur landlord, (i.e. I rent out my house because I had to move with my job). To answer your question, the reason landlords are reluctant is because the last two tentants on rent supplement were always late in paying their rent (1st tenant) and never paid anything at all (second tenant). Finally, the Dept/HSE takes months to process new applications. I for one will avoid ever renting to a rent supplement applicant again if at all possible. I'm down €1,500 this year.

bertie1

As well as the health board being too slow in dealing wth the rent allowance , the tenants have usually cannot afford the balance of the rent they have to pay and the landlord is out of pocket , pursuing the tenant through the PRTB is a time wasting experience costing more time. The bad rent allowance tenants leave with ESB & gas cut off & a large bill of arrears on both the gas , electricity & rent & the house filthy in general . I can well understand why landlords are reluctant to entertain rent allowance. I accepted it for 10 years but in the last 2 I have decided never again am I going to deal with the rent allowance saga. It is a lot less hastle to get somebody working into the house. It has nothing to do with declaring income I declare every penny of my rent I am registered with the PRTB , have all my affairs in order & tax compliant, with BER cert done etc. But no more rent allowance .

Victor

bertie1 wrote: »

As well as the health board being too slow in dealing wth the rent allowance , the tenants have usually cannot afford the balance of the rent they have to pay and the landlord is out of pocket

I think this is misguided. The delays with rent allowance are likely to be down to the tenant (and landlord) completing paperwork, although someone mentioned that in some rural areas that community welfare officers are only available once a week.

The tenant's portion of the rent is normally capped at €24(?) per person per week - I'm not sure about children though. Assuming someone has some income, it may be a matter of other spendings as opposed to not being able to afford the rent.

BostonB

The rent should never be late. If theres any delays the tenant should cover it out of their own pocket. 1 month in advance + 1 months deposit.

Evan La Crey

BostonB wrote: »

The rent should never be late. If theres any delays the tenant should cover it out of their own pocket. 1 month in advance + 1 months deposit.

If someone could afford to pay 1 month in advance and 1 months deposit, they wouldn't need to be on rent allowance. You're talking about people on the dole or job seekers allowance.

No Pants

Evan La Crey wrote: »

If someone could afford to pay 1 month in advance and 1 months deposit, they wouldn't need to be on rent allowance. You're talking about people on the dole or job seekers allowance.

And the whole idea of having to put a roof over their heads came as a surprise and prevented them from saving anything towards a deposit or rent?

The_Conductor

Victor wrote: »

There are various motivations for not accepting rent allowance, from a perception that the tenant will abuse the property to tax evasion.

When searching on daft.ie, go to "advanced search" and select "Are you looking for places that accept rent allowance?"

The paperwork aspect of this- sometimes having to fill the same form out 2-3-4 times for the tenant, waiting for months on end on the HSE, the Community Welfare officer working a 3 day week- one week on, one week off (good luck trying to figure out when she is actually supposed to be there)- and even getting the paperwork submitted and acknowledged, would make the worse schemes run by the Soviets, blush with embarrassment.

Revenue have a dedicated team looking at the housing sector (and other sectors which are perceived to be high-risk sectors). Its a very foolish landlord who thinks they can get away with fiddling their tax these days.

On top of all of this- the rent the tenant pays, as a top-up, is capped at a certain level (depending on their circumstances, and the gross household income- I believe the top rate is now around 32 Euro a month per person). Often this remains a constant- despite the rent-allowance amount falling- in some areas the rent allowance may have been up to 1k a month 3-4 years ago, and it may now be in the 460-480 bracket (looking at one particular Fingal Co.Co. case with these figures). Rents in the area certainly have not halved in the intervening period of time.

The perception is the landlord can afford to accept lower rental income- when in many cases, the rent is going directly to pay direct repayments to lenders, and the taxman- which forces the borrower into untenable personal financial positions (look at the current PIA in this morning's indo- featuring a family with 2 buy-to-let properties whose rent is not covering the payments).

Its a mess- and many landlords who may have accepted Rent Allowance and/or Rent Supplement in the past- simply don't have the stomach for the paperwork or the financial headaches associated with it these days.

The government wants to abdicate its duty to house those unable/incapable of housing themselves- to the private sector- however, they are not financing it as a viable option- the only result I can see here- is growing numbers of people whose finances are squeezed, often through no fault of their own- incapable of housing themselves, and overwhelming housing officers- who are incapable of finding housing units for them.

Something is going to blow- its at pressure point- and once again- you can be damn sure- the finger is going to be pointed squarely at landlords, despite the simple fact that they are simply caught in the cross-fire.

Evan La Crey

Victor wrote: »

I think this is misguided. The delays with rent allowance are likely to be down to the tenant (and landlord) completing paperwork, although someone mentioned that in some rural areas that community welfare officers are only available once a week.

The tenant's portion of the rent is normally capped at €24(?) per person per week - I'm not sure about children though. Assuming someone has some income, it may be a matter of other spendings as opposed to not being able to afford the rent.

I was on rent allowance for 9 months a couple of years ago while I did an internship. Getting the paperwork completed and processed was a nightmare and between everything, it took about 6 weeks to get processed. The comunity welfare office is only open 2 days a week even in Dublin (Charlemont Street), and only for a few hours in the morning. The other issue is that th welfare officer made me go through an unnecessary process in order to qualify, making me apply for social housing i order to get rent allowance. This meant having to fill in additional lengthy forms and go to two additional offices: Dublin City Council CIvic Offices and the Tax Office, as well as having to get the apartment inspected to class it as suitable.

In the end I got it but the rent allowance application should have been just one form and dealt with by one office. I know because when I helped my girlfriend apply for it recently, it was a whole different form and more simple process. All of that caused huge delays because of the amount they expected me to do to qualify, trying to make it to all these different offices, submt forms, wait for each set to be approved, and then trying to get back to the community welfare office and their very specific opening times. See I was not just unemployed and a free agaent. I was, as I said, trying to do an internship and had to take several days off to go round the different offices. And then they took weeks to process it.

But I didn't leave the landlord waiting for the rent. No luckily I was abe to borrow from my sister but that would not be the case for everyone.

beauf

Evan La Crey wrote: »

If someone could afford to pay 1 month in advance and 1 months deposit, they wouldn't need to be on rent allowance. You're talking about people on the dole or job seekers .

What other security/protection is there for the LL?

Evan La Crey

No Pants wrote: »

And the whole idea of having to put a roof over their heads came as a surprise and prevented them from saving anything towards a deposit or rent?

Maybe losing their job came as a surprise... And not everyone can afford to save on their salary when they had a job. Some people just barely scrape by, and not for lack of hard work

beauf

This is an issue for tenants and the Govt.

You are really looking social/public housing, which the Govt has dropped the ball on, passing the buck here leaving all the risk on the LL. The LL are going to do what ever it takes to avoid the risk of a loss or going bankrupt. A LL needs to make a profit to make it worth all the risk and investment. Otherwise there no point doing it. Many are in debt themselves. No one else is going to help them.

At the moment the Govt seem intent on making RA tenants as unattractive as possible the LL's. Costs and tax all increasing with no protection when it all goes wrong. Indeed they are making it easier for people to scam the LL.

So if you want this fixed you need to lobby the Govt.

dinnyirwin

I have rented to rent allowance tenants in the past a few times and will not do so again.
Its like a relationship with 3 people involved. The tenant always tries to blame the social welfare for rent being late or not paying in full.
Then the social welfare dont want to know.

The social welfare tell the tenant to demand a reduction in rent. Tenant thinks they are entitled to this reduction and then just say, nothing to do with me, talk to the cwo.

Its just pain all the way.
Each and every time I convince myself these are nice people and it wont happen again. But it always does, so never again.

murphaph

Evan La Crey wrote: »

Maybe losing their job came as a surprise... And not everyone can afford to save on their salary when they had a job. Some people just barely scrape by, and not for lack of hard work

True and a lot of people could save a few bob for a rainy day but never do and then make like they could never have afforded to put even a small amount by each month.

wolfpawnat

The_Conductor wrote: »

On top of all of this- the rent the tenant pays, as a top-up, is capped at a certain level (depending on their circumstances, and the gross household income- I believe the top rate is now around 32 Euro a month per person). Often this remains a constant- despite the rent-allowance amount falling- in some areas the rent allowance may have been up to 1k a month 3-4 years ago, and it may now be in the 460-480 bracket (looking at one particular Fingal Co.Co. case with these figures). Rents in the area certainly have not halved in the intervening period of time.

Actually, I am sure you are expected to pay that a week yourself. I had to pay 220 a month for my family, since the first of this month, I now have to pay another 20 more. I won't dispute that with the LL, 20e is not enough to start arguments over.

The_Conductor wrote: »

Something is going to blow- its at pressure point- and once again- you can be damn sure- the finger is going to be pointed squarely at landlords, despite the simple fact that they are simply caught in the cross-fire.

Same with tenants really. They just want a home. They are as caught up in the paperwork as landlords.

I get so pissed off when I hear of horrific tenants. I am a RS tenant. I make sure the RS goes into my LL's account and since the receipts are given out on the 25th-ish, I pay the rest on, or by the 1st of the following month. I cannot imagine not paying my rent. I wish RS and RA were not an issue until checks are done. I have a better record than my currently working colleagues, but clearly it is not a fair market.

dinnyirwin

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Same with tenants really. They just want a home. They are as caught up in the paperwork as landlords.

The major difference is that when social welfare start messing with the landlords income the landlord can just ditch them. The result being unfair on RA recipients.

But RA recipients cant ditch anyone, so they are even more unfortunate victims of the messing and interference.

In my experience good and bad RA tenants are about 50/50, but every time its the CWO or social welfare in general that cause issues even when you have good RA tenants, so its just not worth it anymore.

The social welfare forgot to take into account that they are not actually needed unless the property is in a place hard to rent. That doesnt happen in Dublin anyway. Social welfare got too big for their boots and now its the renter who suffers.

fussyonion

I wonder what it'll be like when more and more people get on the RAS scheme.
Will Landlords be more or less willing to participate in that?

dinnyirwin

fussyonion wrote: »

I wonder what it'll be like when more and more people get on the RAS scheme.
Will Landlords be more or less willing to participate in that?

The RAS scheme is so weighted against landlords its unreal.
The only reason for any landlord to go into the RAS scheme is if they cant rent their property under any circumstances. That wont happen in Dublin anytime soon (but it did happen in some parts of Dublina few years ago).

A landlord would have to be absolutely desperate nowadays to take on RAS.

Gatling

fussyonion wrote: »

I wonder what it'll be like when more and more people get on the RAS scheme.
Will Landlords be more or less willing to participate in that?

There won't be a mass migration to RAS imo ,
A lot of landlords dont like the ras scheme to some its as bad as Rent supplement ,

As seen on the news the other day rent has increased 15% across the country this year and in Dublin its a lot higher, were going backwards no lessons have been learned from the economic collapse, rents driven sky high ,people begin to panic and start renting despite a lot of people not been financial stable to afford yearly increases ,
It would be interesting to see if a rent cap was introduced across the country

wolfpawnat

dinnyirwin wrote: »

The major difference is that when social welfare start messing with the landlords income the landlord can just ditch them. The result being unfair on RA recipients.

But RA recipients cant ditch anyone, so they are even more unfortunate victims of the messing and interference.

In my experience good and bad RA tenants are about 50/50, but every time its the CWO or social welfare in general that cause issues even when you have good RA tenants, so its just not worth it anymore.

The social welfare forgot to take into account that they are not actually needed unless the property is in a place hard to rent. That doesnt happen in Dublin anyway. Social welfare got too big for their boots and now its the renter who suffers.

I was lucky that I was able to get the RA sorted in less than a month. I was absolutely terrified everyday checking the post box for the letter. I would hate to be a person who didn't get the letter. The system is a joke for both LL and tenants.

I don't know many on RA/RS, but I have heard more than enough horror stories, I cannot blame LL for not taking it, but it does mean the likes of myself, a decent tenant, is more likely not to get a good apartment/home.

I cannot wait until my partner is finished college and we don't need assistance to pay the rent!

goat2

i think that it is a matter of trust,
i have taken people who are in receipt of rent allowance, some are brilliant, but i also had some who did not appreciate anything, it is like every thing, there are good and bad in every bunch, it is all according to the person,
i believe in trashing everything out before i take a deposit, it gives me a good idea of who i am dealing with, we have a long chat, they get to know me and i them, and build up a trust,

murphaph

goat2 wrote: »

i think that it is a matter of trust,
i have taken people who are in receipt of rent allowance, some are brilliant, but i also had some who did not appreciate anything, it is like every thing, there are good and bad in every bunch, it is all according to the person,
i believe in trashing everything out before i take a deposit, it gives me a good idea of who i am dealing with, we have a long chat, they get to know me and i them, and build up a trust,

The problem is often the DSP though, not the tenant! RAS is the lesser of two evils from the LLs perspective IMO as you are not strictly bound by the RS limits for the area. You can haggle with the council and if they won't accept your rent increase proposal then both parties agree that a local estate agent should have the final word on the market value rent for the area. With RS it's just too restrictive....1c over the RS limit and RS is suspended/withdrawn.

eireannBEAR

This policy from landlords has well and truly arrived in south kildare,Its funny they wont accept rent allowance but are lowering their rents when they update their online listings as they cant find a tenant, their bias is costing them money from having an empty house and then when they find a tenant its costing them more due to lowering rent.

Its pathetic,they should do some research into their tenant and cross all the dots and T's with the rent allowance crowd and then there will not be a problem.

beauf

eireannBEAR wrote: »

...their bias is costing them money from having an empty house and then when they find a tenant its costing them more due to lowering rent....

If you're right, they'll eventually have to change.

If you're wrong they won't.

eireannBEAR

beauf wrote: »

If you're right, they'll eventually have to change.

If you're wrong they won't.

Just had a look back on the site and three properties have already updated their listings to accept rent allowance,Whether i am right or wrong is another matter as i am speaking of south kildare i assume dublin would be an altogether different issue.