belgian blue/ sim/ lim cattle

yog1

we are currently using a limouin bull, i find him very easy to calf, they are quick to get up and suck as well, all in all i like the bull and am happy with him,
i have to buy a few replacements and was thinking of changing to simmental cow's, but i think that the sim would be wasted on a lim bull, i feel that the cow could easily handle a charolais, but dont want the hassle of the slow sleepy calf that doesn't want to get up for a few days,
so i was thinking of putting a belgian blue bull to the sim cows and A.I any heifor with a lim straw,
what is people experience of the blue bull, would the simmental cow be fit for the calf with no great hassle, will the calf hardy, are they quick to get up to suck, any other things i need to be thinking of,
most of my current cattle are a.a cows or lim cross's, it will take about 5 yrs to phase them out and replace them with sim's, how might they handle a blue calf coming out of them,
as was always said to me, it doesn't matter how bad the calf is, as long as you get it out alive, it's better than the great calf you take out of them dead,:o

reilig

yog1 wrote: »

as was always said to me, it doesn't matter how bad the calf is, as long as you get it out alive, it's better than the great calf you take out of them dead,:o

yes, but is costs pretty much the same for feed a calf that will fetch €1000 at a weinling sale as it costs to feed a calf that will fetch €500. I don't know if anyone has the magic solution to it. Everyone wants easy calved calves that will be up and running before they hit the ground, but they also want calves that have a lot of muscle and that will fetch high prices. We can't have it every way I suppose!

pakalasa

Is that not why the BB out of a Lim cow works so well?
The calf gets a lot of hardiness from it's mother, not to mention a bit of muscle too.

Muckit

anyone know what lim heifers fit for breeding are going?

limo_100

id say they could be close to a thousand anyone buying for the bull is going for the limos

1chippy

the last four bought cost 950 average each were 410 kg back 6 weeks ago. lim out of sim mothers. trying to get another few but hard got.i think theres no point buying stock just for the sake of it, so have to skulk around sales yards and farms waiting for the right one. Still looking for another couple but want them at least 450kg now.

limo_100

1chippy wrote: »

the last four bought cost 950 average each were 410 kg back 6 weeks ago. lim out of sim mothers. trying to get another few but hard got.i think theres no point buying stock just for the sake of it, so have to skulk around sales yards and farms waiting for the right one. Still looking for another couple but want them at least 450kg now.

heres a few here but there more expensive there nice animals though


http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/beefcattle/2698112

1chippy

ones i got were only 13 mths. id say they look a bit heavier. than when i got mine. i rather a wee bit more width in the back end but there not bad stock either.

pakalasa

limo_100 wrote: »

heres a few here but there more expensive there nice animals though

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/beefcattle/2698112

Anyone know why there are so many Simmental cattle in Sligo?
The place seems to be full of them.

ddogsbollix

Belgian blues are going out of fashion as mainland europe prefers the charolais now thus reflecting on the prices being paid for charolais cattle compared to blues.
the charolais X with a simmental will throw a very good calf, the cow will have plenty milk and by weaning the calf will be worth a prety penny.

so your worried about having a lazy calf...... well the belgian blues are the lasyiest of calves as there lung capacity is quite poor compared to continental breeds thus making them weak at birth. the cross of a limo X blue is a serious cross. the only thing about the charolais is that is is hard calved however remember some blues are as hard calved as charolais if not harder

redzerologhlen

ddogsbollix wrote: »

Belgian blues are going out of fashion as mainland europe prefers the charolais now thus reflecting on the prices being paid for charolais cattle compared to blues.
the charolais X with a simmental will throw a very good calf, the cow will have plenty milk and by weaning the calf will be worth a prety penny.

so your worried about having a lazy calf...... well the belgian blues are the lasyiest of calves as there lung capacity is quite poor compared to continental breeds thus making them weak at birth. the cross of a limo X blue is a serious cross. the only thing about the charolais is that is is hard calved however remember some blues are as hard calved as charolais if not harder

The thing about the blue if you have to go pulling there is a small bit of give in muscle. Charolais are all bone and there's no give in that. We only had a few ai blues here and never had a problem with them. Remember hanging off the jack pulling a few charolais calf though. Calving a blue wouldnt put me off them. What would put me off them is that they dont seem to be very consistent (alot of our cows probably arent good enough to breed an export quality blue either) and its hard to get a fairly similar bunch of calves so charolais wins for me.

Muckit

limo_100 wrote: »

id say they could be close to a thousand anyone buying for the bull is going for the limos

1chippy wrote: »

the last four bought cost 950 average each were 410 kg back 6 weeks ago. lim out of sim mothers. trying to get another few but hard got.i think theres no point buying stock just for the sake of it, so have to skulk around sales yards and farms waiting for the right one. Still looking for another couple but want them at least 450kg now.

I was fearing having to open my wallet that far Sold majority of our cows and thought about getting into a bit of drystock. Training a smashing little 7mth old charolais bul at the mo and the oul lad put the idea in my head to buy in a few heifers after xmas to run with him before selling him next summer! Calve them down ans sell them with calf at foot. Bull is by OSI out of a CF52 dam, but is he easy calving enough for heifers.... ?? Is any charolais...

redzerologhlen

Muckit wrote: »

I was fearing having to open my wallet that far Sold majority of our cows and thought about getting into a bit of drystock. Training a smashing little 7mth old charolais bul at the mo and the oul lad put the idea in my head to buy in a few heifers after xmas to run with him before selling him next summer! Calve them down ans sell them with calf at foot. Bull is by OSI out of a CF52 dam, but is he easy calving enough for heifers.... ?? Is any charolais...

We have done it before muckit and was ok but our bull wasnt awful hard calving. Would only have been 4 or 5 heifers. You could get caught out very fast though I would imagine especially when you dont know the history of the bull calving. An easy calving pedigree doest mean he will be as easy calving as his ancestors. Its a good guide but not bulletproof. The hardest calving bull we ever had was a simmental. Every calf was like a weanling. Had charolais for a few years after that then and they were easier calved then the sim's so its hard to say. I would chance a few with the charolais but wouldnt like to be calving a field of them cause you will more than likely run into problems somewhere along the line. Its a bit of a gamble doing it really.

BeeDI

yog1 wrote: »

we are currently using a limouin bull, i find him very easy to calf, they are quick to get up and suck as well, all in all i like the bull and am happy with him,
i have to buy a few replacements and was thinking of changing to simmental cow's, but i think that the sim would be wasted on a lim bull, i feel that the cow could easily handle a charolais, but dont want the hassle of the slow sleepy calf that doesn't want to get up for a few days,

Im 27 years using a charolais stock bull. Also use lim and simmental from AI. To be totally honest, I have never noticed any difference, whatsoever between any of the breeds, in terms of ability to get up and suck, etc,. It's a myth that the charolais is slow and sleepy.
Once the calf is in the ground, and the cow has bonded and licked it, I close the door on it and go to bed. No matter what breed, they get in with the process of survival, if you leave them to it.

Muckit

redzerologhlen wrote: »

Its a bit of a gamble doing it really.

I expected as much! :rolleyes: I'I see. If a few nice sqaure LM heifers catch my eye I might take a gamble. They'd be a smashing outfit IF I managed to calve them ok! (note: that's a big if...!!!!!!)

Muckit

I'm just thinking that they might be less of a 'gamble' if a lad was mad enough to buy cattle now or next spring and try and make a few pound or at least break even.....

Bizzum

Muckit wrote: »

I expected as much! :rolleyes: I'I see. If a few nice sqaure LM heifers catch my eye I might take a gamble. They'd be a smashing outfit IF I managed to calve them ok! (note: that's a big if...!!!!!!)

That's a big if alright:D.

Take 6 heifers. AI them 1.5 straws each (I made that figure up) at say €28/straw is about €250 to AI.
If they are indoors its relatively easy to AI them.
I'd sooner chance this than a CH who is untried in the calving stakes.
6 nice black Lim's with 6 red calves at foot would be very saleable!

But you know yourself..........Every cripple has his own way of walking!

john62

redzerologhlen wrote: »

We have done it before muckit and was ok but our bull wasnt awful hard calving. Would only have been 4 or 5 heifers. You could get caught out very fast though I would imagine especially when you dont know the history of the bull calving. An easy calving pedigree doest mean he will be as easy calving as his ancestors. Its a good guide but not bulletproof. The hardest calving bull we ever had was a simmental. Every calf was like a weanling. Had charolais for a few years after that then and they were easier calved then the sim's so its hard to say. I would chance a few with the charolais but wouldnt like to be calving a field of them cause you will more than likely run into problems somewhere along the line. Its a bit of a gamble doing it really.

Bought a simmental bull this year and have 7 heifers in calf to him calving in a month:rolleyes:.

What was the sire of your bull?

Bizzum

john62 wrote: »

Bought a simmental bull this year and have 7 heifers in calf to him calving in a month:rolleyes:.

What was the sire of your bull?

What breeding is in yours John?

john62

Bizzum wrote: »

What breeding is in yours John?

Sire is Cairnview Snazzy and sire of the dam is Ballyduff Jeweller.

redzerologhlen

john62 wrote: »

Bought a simmental bull this year and have 7 heifers in calf to him calving in a month:rolleyes:.

What was the sire of your bull?

I honestly couldnt tell ya, I was only a young lad at the time. All the cattle out of him were bonkers so it could have been marblehill liam. The man we bought him off was breeding them off ai anyway. We had another sim bull after him and he was grand calving.

scuggels

Muckit wrote: »

I was fearing having to open my wallet that far Sold majority of our cows and thought about getting into a bit of drystock. Training a smashing little 7mth old charolais bul at the mo and the oul lad put the idea in my head to buy in a few heifers after xmas to run with him before selling him next summer! Calve them down ans sell them with calf at foot. Bull is by OSI out of a CF52 dam, but is he easy calving enough for heifers.... ?? Is any charolais...

Is the bull calf 100% pedigree?

Muckit

scuggels wrote: »

Is the bull calf 100% pedigree?

Oh yes indeed. He has his cert

Muckit

Bizzum wrote: »

That's a big if alright:D.

Take 6 heifers. AI them 1.5 straws each (I made that figure up) at say €28/straw is about €250 to AI.
If they are indoors its relatively easy to AI them.
I'd sooner chance this than a CH who is untried in the calving stakes.
6 nice black Lim's with 6 red calves at foot would be very saleable!

But you know yourself..........Every cripple has his own way of walking!

Yes Bizzum, you talk alot of sense That might be a much better plan. So you think black LM heifers and give them LM straw? You could be right.

I also like the look of simm X heifers. They'd have good milk. What would a lad put on these?

Bizzum

Muckit wrote: »

Yes Bizzum, you talk alot of sense That might be a much better plan. So you think black LM heifers and give them LM straw? You could be right.

I also like the look of simm X heifers. They'd have good milk. What would a lad put on these?

Me? Talking sense? What ever next......Let's not get too carried away now:D.

Lot's of lads get very tied up on a particular breed or other. If you're in a position to buy an even group of same breed heifers to bull, lovely, but it's not always that easy.
We tend to breed replacement heifers, and top them up by buying the odd single or pair from the mart. In your case it's a little different because these heifers may be, bulled, calved and then offered for sale.(I often think that a good springer makes as much as one calved down, with far less hassle and work!) So you have to figure what type of heifer is most desirable to the max number of customers.
A lot of lads like the black Lim, but as you say the Sim has it's fans too.
What bull wuold I put on a Simx heifer? The last one we had got Sirex, others usually a Lim. I'd be interested to here has anyone tried the BB bull BBQ on Simx heifers?

1chippy

gathering sim x li heifers picking up two more on sat. fid that theymake great mothers. was lookin at bbq too so could do with advice

Bizzum

Another thing I was thinking about suckler cows is: Some of our own cows are big, very big, particularly those with CH and Simm in them.
I'm thinking now of using something that would produce a handier cow.
Have tried Blonde and got a few lovely cows!
Any thoughts?

1chippy

Bizzum wrote: »

Another thing I was thinking about suckler cows is: Some of our own cows are big, very big, particularly those with CH and Simm in them.
I'm thinking now of using something that would produce a handier cow.
Have tried Blonde and got a few lovely cows!
Any thoughts?

Any pics? i have seen very few blondes and would to know how they go.

Bizzum

1chippy wrote: »

Any pics? i have seen very few blondes and would to know how they go.

Put up a few Pics (taken today in the rain) for you in the Photo Thread!

1chippy

nice lookin cows bizzum. how do you find the blonde weanlings for selling. is there a reason youdidnt put blondes back on them or is it just for hi brid.

Bizzum

1chippy wrote: »

nice lookin cows bizzum. how do you find the blonde weanlings for selling. is there a reason youdidnt put blondes back on them or is it just for hi brid.

We would never have a lot of weanlings for sale but the few Blondes were nice enough cattle. I know we killed some and although the carcase wgt might not have been that of the Charolais, they graded and killed out well.

The reasons we would have used any BA in the first place were,
calving ease, bring milk, bring muscle, reduce size.
Those two lighter coloured cows are super breeders to Lim, thinking of trying a BB on them next! The black/blonde cow though a fine looking cow is not a good cow to breed, she's on thin ice unless she up's her game:D

leg wax

put the black blonde in calf to a blonde bull and keep the heifers out of her.

Bizzum

leg wax wrote: »

put the black blonde in calf to a blonde bull and keep the heifers out of her.

I dunno. She is carrying her 4th calf,on the pop of calving, a Lim, maybe ABI or RSJ, I'd have to check. She already had an average Lim and an average CH, last years calf was a nice enough CH heifer.
I think her problem though is pure and simply not enough milk. We'll see how she go's this year!
I'd be slow to keep a heifer out of her for this reason. Am I wrong?

limo_100

Bizzum wrote: »

I dunno. She is carrying her 4th calf,on the pop of calving, a Lim, maybe ABI or RSJ, I'd have to check. She already had an average Lim and an average CH, last years calf was a nice enough CH heifer.
I think her problem though is pure and simply not enough milk. We'll see how she go's this year!
I'd be slow to keep a heifer out of her for this reason. Am I wrong?

a parthenaise bull would give you a nice heifer from her increase muscle and milk well thats what i think anyway

Bizzum

limo_100 wrote: »

a parthenaise bull would give you a nice heifer from her increase muscle and milk well thats what i think anyway

Food for thought there alright.
I intend using Sirex on a few second calvers to see what happens.

limo_100

Bizzum wrote: »

Food for thought there alright.
I intend using Sirex on a few second calvers to see what happens.

is that a tall black cow because I cant tell by the photo she seems quite blocky. Maybe someone on here could tell us weather or not the parthenaise bull increases size?

Bizzum

limo_100 wrote: »

is that a tall black cow because I cant tell by the photo she seems quite blocky. Maybe someone on here could tell us weather or not the parthenaise bull increases size?

She's not tall, nor is she she a small cow. She is a fair block of a cow alright. I couldn't see Part increasing size, but with the size of the cows we have, it's cutting down a bit on size I want!
I have one PartX weanling heifer (out of a big SimX heifer) hopefully she'll make a decent cow!