Worst Officiating Decisions of the 2011 Rugby World Cup

07438991

Hi Guys,

I am just curious at to what you all thought of

1. the refereeing at the Rugby World Cup &

2. what are some of the worst refereeing decisions that you remember?

3. What (if any) should the IRB do to improve the officiating for future tournaments?

All replies welcome. Thank you!

1. very poor overall
2. its not a single decision but the final was a joke nice to see new zealand win it at last they deserve it for being so good for so long but france werent given a chance.

07438991

I will start with Sam Warburton's red card against France which I believe the referee should have used his own discretion (17mins into a RWC semi-final) and awarded a yellow card.

And in the same match, I don't believe that Wales should have been awarded the penalty that Halfpenny missed by inches as Luke Charteris was playing the ball on the ground in my opinion.

Match highlights - http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/video/index.html

07438991

Quarter-Final: Australia V Wales.

Shane Williams' try was about 3-5mts forward; and what makes it worse is the Hook releases the ball on the 10mt line which makes it more obvious... (Sorry Shane, if you reading this!)

Match highlights - http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/video/index.html

07438991

07438991 wrote: »

I will start with Sam Warburton's red card against France which I believe the referee should have used his own discretion (17mins into a RWC semi-final) and awarded a yellow card.

And in the same match, I don't believe that Wales should have been awarded the penalty that Halfpenny missed by inches as Luke Charteris was playing the ball on the ground in my opinion.

Match highlights - http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/video/index.html

dont get me wrong i was upset that he went off it ruined a good game for me (and stopped wales from winning the tournament in my opinion) but if he deserved a red he deserved a red be it a world cup semi final or an autumn international it shouldnt matter.

07438991

07438991 wrote: »

I will start with Sam Warburton's red card against France which I believe the referee should have used his own discretion (17mins into a RWC semi-final) and awarded a yellow card.

And in the same match, I don't believe that Wales should have been awarded the penalty that Halfpenny missed by inches as Luke Charteris was playing the ball on the ground in my opinion.

Match highlights - http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/video/index.html

The Safety of the players >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the "occasion".

I think if referees were to start balancing decisions on such things it would be an utter disaster. We already have instances where 2 points down with no time on the clock, referees refuse to award stonewall penalties because it would give kickers an opportunity to win the game. Hey Craig!

07438991

Good Point Fletcher Shaggy Teammate!

It's just that some argue that there have been worse tackles or similar tackles which have ended up with less harsh sanctions.

07438991

07438991 wrote: »

Some argue that there have been worse tackles or similar tackles which have ended up with less harsh sanctions.

they'd be right, but that doesn't make the decision incorrect. Anyway, there was a monsterous thread on it, so I don't think opening up the debate is a good idea.

Rolland has precedent in awarding the red card for a similar situation, and he was backed up by the laws and directives clearly voiced by O'Brien.

07438991

07438991 wrote: »

Some argue that there have been worse tackles or similar tackles which have ended up with less harsh sanctions.

this is true but while maby a red card was a bit harsh you cant say it was outrageious to be honest i think the ref deserves a pat on the back for having the balls to give a red for what he felt was a very bad tackle

CatFromHue

Deleted User wrote: »

Rolland has precedent in awarding the red card for a similar situation, and he was backed up by the laws and directives clearly voiced by O'Brien.

Warburton himself had no problem with the red either.

What's the point of this thread? To have a go at refs so that whatever decision they make in the future will be undermined? So that if a ref makes a decision against our team we already have an inbuilt response!

Refs are human, they will make mistakes like me, like you, and like BOD.

GerM

The refereeing of the scrum in our game against Australia. Yes, we were on top but the decisions for our two three pointers from the scrums were very questionable.

Worst single performance has to be Nigel Owens in the quarter finals for NZ against Argentina. Some shocking calls. He should have been demoted for his performance and was instead awarded a role in the final.

tolosenc

07438991 wrote: »

Good Point Fletcher Shaggy Teammate!

It's just that some argue that there have been worse tackles or similar tackles which have ended up with less harsh sanctions.

Doesn't mean those less harsh sanctions were correct.

This has been done to death, and the overwhelming opinion on this forum is that Rolland got it right.

For me, the final was an utter disgrace. If it was reffed properly France would have won.

cython

07438991 wrote: »

Some argue that there have been worse tackles or similar tackles which have ended up with less harsh sanctions.

In that context, the refs imposing the sanctions for the "worse tackles or similar tackles" were in fact the ones to be credited with poor decisions, as the instructions and laws were there, but this really doesn't need to be done again, surely?!

07438991 wrote: »

Quarter-Final: Australia V Wales.

Shane Williams' try was about 3-5mts forward; and what makes it worse is the Hook releases the ball on the 10mt line which makes it more obvious... (Sorry Shane, if you reading this!)

Match highlights - http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/video/index.html

Since neither Australia nor Wales made it to the final (and a requirement of a semi would be that one of them would ), I have fixed your post

As for an example of a poor decision, Bowe's try that was disallowed because of the "forward" pass from SOB. Sure, the result didn't hinge on it or anything, but it was still a very poor call.

chupacabra

Honestly I thought the refereeing was about the same as it was in 07. Few mares (final) but overall it was no different to how its been for the last 4 years. I have to say though that while the reffing of the scrum improved marginally the length of the calls is EXCRUTIATING.

Crouch............. Touch............ Paaaaaaauuuuuuuusssssse






































































engage.

:mad:

tolosenc

cython wrote: »

Since neither Australia nor Wales made it to the final (and a requirement of a semi would be that one of them would ), I have fixed your post

It was the Bronze Final, actually, seeing as both of them made the semis, which would mean they couldn't have met in the quarters...

07438991

Nicely spotted Cython! Good attention to detail - A+

cython

tolosenc wrote: »

It was the Bronze Final, actually, seeing as both of them made the semis, which would mean they couldn't have met in the quarters...

D'oh! I thought there was something wrong with what I was typing, since we were in Wales quarter, but for some reason I told that voice in the back of my mind to shut up - really should listen to it more often!

with regards to your 3rd point and this is a little bit off topic and has been done to death apologies i think officiating will never be perfect but the 3rd tear nations schedules are the only thing that really stood out that needs to be fixed immediately

ooooo worst decision was the samoan wing getting fined for his gumshield

07438991

What about a gumshield?

I thought a Samoan players was in trouble over tweeting Nigel Owens is a sh1te ref and a racist prick? And when he was brought in front of a disciplinary committee, he complained about the match schedules for non-tier 1 unions and the judge said that the scheduling complaint was valid and the IRB would fix this in the next RWC... What was wrong with the fixtures?

07438991

07438991 wrote: »

What about a gumshield?

I thought a Samoan players was in trouble over tweeting Nigel Owens is a sh1te ref and a racist prick? And when he was brought in front of a disciplinary committee, he complained about the match schedules for non-tier 1 unions and the judge said that the scheduling complaint was valid and the IRB would fix this in the next RWC... What was wrong with the fixtures?

http://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read/s103.htm?106,12745311

for wearing a "branded" mouthguard

the likes of japan had 4 and 5 day turnarounds where as ireland nz england etc had 7

07438991

What was wrote on it? It's a form of ambush marketing. The sponsors would be upset if it was one of their rival companies that was getting free advertisement.

07438991

07438991 wrote: »

What was wrote on it? It's a form of ambush marketing. The sponsors would be upset if it was one of their rival companies that was getting free advertisement.

im not gona lie im not 100 percent sure but form what i can tell given its the same one he wears for his club i get the impression its just the gumshields manafacturer

Brendan97

Richie McCaw camping out on the oppostion's side of the ruck and no referee spotting it

molloyjh

Overall the refereeing didn't seem any better or worse than expected, with the exception of the final which was an utter disgrace. Worst refereeing decision was without a doubt "the Kaino incident". The guy goes in from the side, off his feet, plays the ball, knocks it on all in front of the ref and Joubert calls "Ball Out!". Shameful is right Franno!

matthew8

Worst call has to be Paul Williams red card. It was extremely harsh, and very much provoked by Rossouw, who dived after continually punching Williams.

irishbucsfan

Really can't understand how people still think Warburton's card was anything less than a red card after he himself said it was the right decision.

Lawrence was rubbish in his quarter, Rolland was rubbish in the semi (apart from the red decision) and Joubert was rubbish in the final, so I think I'll always be left with the impression that the officiating in this world cup was worse than it actually was.

molloyjh

molloyjh wrote: »

Overall the refereeing didn't seem any better or worse than expected, with the exception of the final which was an utter disgrace. Worst refereeing decision was without a doubt "the Kaino incident". The guy goes in from the side, off his feet, plays the ball, knocks it on all in front of the ref and Joubert calls "Ball Out!". Shameful is right Franno!

i saw that "kaino incident" never mind the world cup was possible the most blatant incident of a ref turning a blind eye in rugby history

Reloc8

There were a few howlers in the pool games.

Worst game in the context of materiality to outcome of a match was the Kaino non-decision by Joubert in the final.

Absolute shocker if you got it in a J5 game.

JustinDee

matthew8 wrote: »

Worst call has to be Paul Williams red card. It was extremely harsh, and very much provoked by Rossouw, who dived after continually punching Williams.

???

Brussouw was on his feet. Williams unprovoked clung to him illegally while prostate on ruckpile. Brussouw understandably continually hit Williams' illegal clinging on to him. Williams reacted and struck him in the face.

Striking an opponent in that manner is a no-no hence the red card.

JustinDee

07438991 wrote: »

I will start with Sam Warburton's red card against France which I believe the referee should have used his own discretion (17mins into a RWC semi-final) and awarded a yellow card.

A card is non-contextual ie. sanction does not depend on the game or how far into that game.

copacetic

JustinDee wrote: »

???

Brussouw was on his feet. Williams unprovoked clung to him illegally while prostate on ruckpile. Brussouw understandably continually hit Williams' illegal clinging on to him. Williams reacted and struck him in the face.

Striking an opponent in that manner is a no-no hence the red card.

Understandably? He hit him with multiple heavy blows with forearm, elbow and fist to the back of the head.

Strikes to the back of the head are banned in boxing, MMA etc because of serious risk of brain injury from even a single blow.

Much, much worse than a push in the face. Brussouw should have see a red card and a lengthy ban.

twinytwo

SA v Aus .. refing was a joke

NZ v Arg... refing was a joke

NZ v France... prob the worst case of hometown refing i have ever seen.

twinytwo

Brendan97 wrote: »

Richie McCaw camping out on the oppostion's side of the ruck and no referee spotting it

The did spot it they just chose to ignore it, whats worse is a ref calling him by name and telling him to stop playing the ball, while he was on the ground and offside mind you.

JustinDee

copacetic wrote: »

Understandably? He hit him with multiple heavy blows with forearm, elbow and fist to the back of the head

Yep. "Understandably". Williams wouldn't let go and was cynical in what he did and his reasons (slow down play, take a player out, provoke a reaction).
Rabbit-punching is a deliberate aim to the back of the head. What Brussouw did wasn't a rabbit-punch.

Right call. If you're going to play that cynically, risk a reaction and a card. Otherwise just get on with the game.

matthew8

JustinDee wrote: »

???

Brussouw was on his feet. Williams unprovoked clung to him illegally while prostate on ruckpile. Brussouw understandably continually hit Williams' illegal clinging on to him. Williams reacted and struck him in the face.

Striking an opponent in that manner is a no-no hence the red card.

Williams gave Brussouw a hand-off off the ball after being punched constantly off the ball, and got a red card. Brussouw blatantly dived. The reffing in that game was awful by Owens in general too.

07438991

Ariadne Easy Sordidness wrote: »

im not gona lie im not 100 percent sure but form what i can tell given its the same one he wears for his club i get the impression its just the gumshields manafacturer

I thought that all their gumshields were professionally made (by a dentist taking a mould of their teeth first and sending that off); therefore, can't really see a player wearing the manufacturers name/logo without it receiving some sort of athlete endorsement.

JustinDee

matthew8 wrote: »

Williams gave Brussouw a hand-off off the ball after being punched constantly off the ball, and got a red card. Brussouw blatantly dived. The reffing in that game was awful by Owens in general too.

It wasn't a "hand-off". He struck him in the face, along with being the provocateur.
Anyone trying what he did in an international match, if the ref is worth their salt, will follow suit. Strike an opponent in the face, you walk.
No question of being the wrong decision.

BoardsMember

The Kaino entering from an offside position, from the side, handling in a ruck, clearly on his hands and knees. Caught red handed on 76 minutes in the RWC final - he looked at the ref, the ref looked at him, they both knew he was guilty as sin, he even rolled the ball away, forward, and the ref gave a knock on. I was actually disgusted by that, and I was a neutral.

07438991

I did't see the Kaino incident and the IRB highlights didn't show it funny enough.

The fecking ESB were doing repairs in my area and the power for 4hours on the Sunday morning of the RWC final... :eek: I only saw the first half and apparently, the ESB sent out written notice to all the houses! :mad:

So thanks to the government for including the World Cup Finals on the list of sports events that must be on free-to-air exterrestrial tv, but it's useless if the ESB are on another planet deciding when to carryout upgrades!

BoarHunter

07438991 wrote: »

I did't see the Kaino incident and the IRB highlights didn't show it funny enough.

The fecking ESB were doing repairs in my area and the power for 4hours on the Sunday morning of the RWC final... :eek: I only saw the first half and apparently, the ESB sent out written notice to all the houses! :mad:

So thanks to the government for including the World Cup Finals on the list of sports events that must be on free-to-air exterrestrial tv, but it's useless if the ESB are on another planet deciding when to carryout upgrades!

Well if you watched the Final live you notice that the NZ TV realisation ommited to show a lot of replays or they were stopped just at the right moment

copacetic

JustinDee wrote: »

Yep. "Understandably". Williams wouldn't let go and was cynical in what he did and his reasons (slow down play, take a player out, provoke a reaction).
Rabbit-punching is a deliberate aim to the back of the head. What Brussouw did wasn't a rabbit-punch.

Right call. If you're going to play that cynically, risk a reaction and a card. Otherwise just get on with the game.

He deliberately aimed numerous heavy blows to the base of the head, it couldn't be more obvious. Incredibly dangerous, could very easily have left Williams with a serious injury.

How anyone can call such a cowardly attack to a defenceless player fair enough, I just can't understand, as for the chicken easy way out decision toward the big team from the touch judge and ref, that's as laughable as your posts.

you're both getting it slightly wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhnGepXsqDI

Don't think Brussow is as innocent as reported, and don't think that Williams really deserved to walk

JustinDee

copacetic wrote: »

He deliberately aimed numerous heavy blows to the base of the head, it couldn't be more obvious. Incredibly dangerous, could very easily have left Williams with a serious injury.

How anyone can call such a cowardly attack to a defenceless player fair enough, I just can't understand, as for the chicken easy way out decision toward the big team from the touch judge and ref, that's as laughable as your posts.

Monocular at best.
Williams instigated the entire incident. Brussouw could have been penalised for retaliation if Williams wasn't stupid enough to keep doing what he was doing. As for where Brussouw was aiming, you'd need a crystal ball, mind map and a truth serum to determine. It can easily be argued he was just aiming at Williams or Williams' arm/shoulder/back in general.
Once the Kiwi hit the face, he was off.

Simples.

BarackPyjama

The refereeing of the final has really ruined international rugby for me.

07438991

BarackPyjama wrote: »

The refereeing of the final has really ruined international rugby for me.

Please elaborate...

BoardsMember

BarackPyjama wrote: »

The refereeing of the final has really ruined international rugby for me.

I was absolutely disgusted with it too. It was so wrong, it was everything sport should not be. France should have had a chance of winning that game, but the referee made certain that the had no chance. Absolutely disgusting. I have no idea if there was pressure from O'Brien, or higher/elsewhere, or whether it was just the pressure of the occasion, but the match was not refereed fairly, I've never seen a match so incredibly unfairly. It was a joke.

That said, I'm still really interested in international rugby. New Zealand choked in the final, but were allowed win it. Hopefully that means that the latter stages of the next few world cups can be refereed fairly, until NZ go another 20 odd years choking, by which time it will need to be arranged that they win again.

tall chapy

Overall the refereeing didn't seem any better or worse than expected, with the exception of the final which was an utter disgrace. Worst refereeing decision was without a doubt "the Kaino incident". The guy goes in from the side, off his feet, plays the ball, knocks it on all in front of the ref and Joubert calls "Ball Out!". Shameful is right Franno!

Molloyjh is 100% correct

The worst decision with biggest impact was the Kaino incident. It was unbelievable, the French scrum half is pleading with Joubert about Kaino, Kaino then knocks it on and Joubert says play on, I could not believe it from a Ref at a World Cup final!!
Every Referee except Rolland, Wayne Barnes & Alan Lewis(pity he is gone from the game after NZ complained about him in public) are not afraid of NZ.
Bryce Lawrence can be good on his day, though he is a bit quirky and from NZ he cannot ref NZ
What a lot of referees seem to be doing in some games, is refing the away team or underdog, so that the favourite gets a large lead, then he tries to balance out the stats in the second half by giving the away team/underdog loads of penalties when the match is beyond them.

The Williams sending of was over played by Brussouw if he stayed on his feet, Williams would have at most got a yellow card. Remember this was a very bruising encounter the hits were huge. With 10 mins to go the 2 sides were getting tired. So frustration was setting in. The match was that tiring that the Samoan were losing and they opted to kick it out at the end, they di d not even chase the ball down the field.

I was at a few of the games - MHO of the refs

Wayne Barnes (England) -
I thought he refereed fine, only the Jame Hook 'conversion'
George Clancy (Ireland)
At times he looked like a rabbit in the headlights

Craig Joubert (South Africa)
Before the RWC he reffed in Dublin and I thought he had a good game. But in the semi final and the final, he was unbelievably biased towards NZ. Joubert did 3 of Ireland's 5 games

Jonathan Kaplan (South Africa)
At the Ireland v Italy game he was a joke, 99% of the decisions were made by the 2 NZ linemen telling Kaplan what happened, he had his finger in his ear for most of the game having to listen to then. He should retire. He also missed the Ghiraldini gouging of Cian Healy

Bryce Lawrence (New Zealand)
The Aussies were not happy with him after the Ireland game.
He was one of the two NZ linesmen in the Ireland v Italy game. Bryce like to be at the centre even when he is linesman! At times he can be good, though he missed loads at the SA v Australia game

Nigel Owens (Wales)
He has gone so downhill, even before the RWC. He was absolutely crap.

Dave Pearson (England)
Romain Poite (France)
These pair of Laurel & Hardy's ran the line in the SA V Australia, the stuff they 'missed' that we in the crowd could see was unbelievable. Obstructions, knock on's, forward passes....The SA fans were going mental..

Alain Rolland (Ireland)
He is still the best in the world

Steve Walsh (Australia)
Former Kiwi now an Aussie ref and main beneficiary of Lewis not being selected to go. Having said that I cannot remember any incidents with him