Two ex-gardaí jailed over Waterford assault

BaronVon

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1107/holnessa.html

Two former gardaí have received jail terms and a third has been given a suspended sentence in connection with an assault on a 38-year-old man in Waterford in 2010.

Two former gardaí have been given prison sentences following an assault on a man in Waterford in 2010.
They were convicted in connection with an assault on 38-year-old Anthony Holness in the early hours of 29 January 2010.

Daniel Hickey was given a three year sentence with 18 months suspended for assault causing harm to Mr Holness.

John Burke, who was operating the CCTV cameras at the station control room where the assault took place, has been given a two year sentence with 12 months suspended.

A third garda, Sergeant Martha McEnery, was given a four month suspended sentence.

Sentencing was handed down by Judge Leonie Reynolds at Waterford Circuit court this afternoon.

Dotrel

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=75313699

francis1978

I've noticed that in the past few weeks there were one or two other cases involving 'ex guards'. Do other posters think it is fair that they should be allowed to be sacked/resign ? Surely the fact that they are no longer employed is a sign of guilt, are there in-house disciplinary procedures such as the army's court martial or similar? Are they removed from there jobs to avoid headlines such as "Guards assault man" ?

mathie

francis1978 wrote: »

Surely the fact that they are no longer employed is a sign of guilt?

I used to work in Crazy Prices years ago.
I don't any more.
Does that mean I'm guilty of pretending a large packet of Penguins were opened and "shop-soiled" and going into the back room and gorging myself silly?

Actually yes it probably does.

Dotrel

In fairness when one sees a packet of Penguins you are in all likelihood going to do something like that.

Peetrik

francis1978 wrote: »

I've noticed that in the past few weeks there were one or two other cases involving 'ex guards'. Do other posters think it is fair that they should be allowed to be sacked/resign ?

They should be sacked and have the book thrown at them. They are the ones ment to be protecting the public.

Dymo

They attacked him knowing that they would get away with it because they were members of the Gardai, and the guy who moved the CCTV camera knew what was happening was wrong but decided to turn a blind eye to it.

Hope its a lesson for other want to be Robocops.

seamus

francis1978 wrote: »

I've noticed that in the past few weeks there were one or two other cases involving 'ex guards'. Do other posters think it is fair that they should be allowed to be sacked/resign ?

What difference does it make? If they're found guilty, they're finished in the Gardai. If they're found not guilty, but know themselves that they were entirely out of line, then their career is effectively finished.
If they're completely innocent, they'll stay put.

The courts won't go easier on them because they've left the Gardai. The court will take into account the fact that they were Gardai at the time of the assault and punish them accordingly.

When you consider the kind of lenient sentences that your average scummer gets for equally serious assaults, I'd say these guys got fairly harsh sentences relatively speaking.

I'm particularly glad at the harsh sentence the CCTV operator got. It's one thing being the dirty Garda dishing out the beating - a scummer's a scummer in a any group - but a lot of otherwise ordinary Gardai might consider looking the other way or put their fingers in their ears when this kind of thing happens.

Ellis Dee

Although the sentences seem very lenient for such a vicious assault, and the fact that a serious attempt was made to pervert the course of justice, their conviction is a welcome sign that Gardai are no longer quite as above the law as has often seemed to be the case in the past.:D:D

Don't drop the soap boys!;);)

seamus

Just for reference, these are relatively harsh sentences for a serious assault. The timeframe is typical (2-3 years), but a full suspension is very common.

http://www.eecho.ie/news/ireland/boxer-gets-suspended-sentence-for-unprovoked-assault-496478.html
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/suspended-sentence-for-nightclub-glass-assault-511504.html

Having to serve half of the sentence for assault is actally quite harsh, relatively speaking, and will be doubly difficult for (former) Gardai for obvious reasons.

jackie1974

Im delighted to read that, getting a good beating in the cells is almost par for the course if you piss off the wrong garda. My ex got a beating lately after being arrested for drunken disorderly conduct. He was arguing outside a club when a garda approached him and asked him his name, he replied peter, garda says peter what and like the smart ass he is he said peter pan. So a very pissed off garda says ah ya think your clever do ya and throws him into the back of a paddy wagon.

He said he was in the cell about 10 minutes when a different garda came in, beat the sh!te out of him and left, origonal garda came back in happy out and told him fcuk off home.

Ive often said of a scumbag that has commited some awful crime that I hope to god they get a good hiding in the barracks but rationally speaking nobody should have that power to be able to carry out an assault on anybody that pisses them off

ItsAWindUp

Glad to see an example made of them, Gardai are not above the law despite what some members may believe.

Guy:Incognito

Peetrik wrote: »

They should be sacked and have the book thrown at them. .

Before the trial? The only way an "ex-Garda" can be convicted is if they are no longer in the job. Think thats what he was getting at. They shouldnt be sacked before the trial.

Yahew

jackie1974 wrote: »

Im delighted to read that, getting a good beating in the cells is almost par for the course if you piss off the wrong garda. My ex got a beating lately after being arrested for drunken disorderly conduct. He was arguing outside a club when a garda approached him and asked him his name, he replied peter, garda says peter what and like the smart ass he is he said peter pan. So a very pissed off garda says ah ya think your clever do ya and throws him into the back of a paddy wagon.

He said he was in the cell about 10 minutes when a different garda came in, beat the sh!te out of him and left, origonal garda came back in happy out and told him fcuk off home.

Ive often said of a scumbag that has commited some awful crime that I hope to god they get a good hiding in the barracks but rationally speaking nobody should have that power to be able to carry out an assault on anybody that pisses them off

yeaah, did he do anything? I know going to the Police to complain about the Police is a mug's game, but he should try.

Dudess

jackie1974 wrote: »

Im delighted to read that, getting a good beating in the cells is almost par for the course if you piss off the wrong garda. My ex got a beating lately after being arrested for drunken disorderly conduct. He was arguing outside a club when a garda approached him and asked him his name, he replied peter, garda says peter what and like the smart ass he is he said peter pan. So a very pissed off garda says ah ya think your clever do ya and throws him into the back of a paddy wagon.

He said he was in the cell about 10 minutes when a different garda came in, beat the sh!te out of him and left, origonal garda came back in happy out and told him fcuk off home.

Corrupt ****ers. :mad:

Yeah, re your last point: someone like that maniac who chopped off the girl's fingers, I couldn't care less about him getting a thumping from other prisoners (although I'd draw the line at torture and actual killing) but I wouldn't like guards laying a finger on anyone, because they are agents of the state, and in a position of power.

Bosco boy

jackie1974 wrote: »

Im delighted to read that, getting a good beating in the cells is almost par for the course if you piss off the wrong garda. My ex got a beating lately after being arrested for drunken disorderly conduct. He was arguing outside a club when a garda approached him and asked him his name, he replied peter, garda says peter what and like the smart ass he is he said peter pan. So a very pissed off garda says ah ya think your clever do ya and throws him into the back of a paddy wagon.

He said he was in the cell about 10 minutes when a different garda came in, beat the sh!te out of him and left, origonal garda came back in happy out and told him fcuk off home.

Ive often said of a scumbag that has commited some awful crime that I hope to god they get a good hiding in the barracks but rationally speaking nobody should have that power to be able to carry out an assault on anybody that pisses them off

Maybe it was Peter pan who came in and beat him! Sounds like he likes fairy tales!!!

padd b1975

jackie1974 wrote: »

Im delighted to read that, getting a good beating in the cells is almost par for the course if you piss off the wrong garda. My ex got a beating lately after being arrested for drunken disorderly conduct. He was arguing outside a club when a garda approached him and asked him his name, he replied peter, garda says peter what and like the smart ass he is he said peter pan. So a very pissed off garda says ah ya think your clever do ya and throws him into the back of a paddy wagon.

He said he was in the cell about 10 minutes when a different garda came in, beat the sh!te out of him and left, origonal garda came back in happy out and told him fcuk off home.

Ive often said of a scumbag that has commited some awful crime that I hope to god they get a good hiding in the barracks but rationally speaking nobody should have that power to be able to carry out an assault on anybody that pisses them off

Why could he not tell the garda his name??
Did he have something to hide??

jackie1974

padd b1975 wrote: »

jackie1974 wrote: »

Im delighted to read that, getting a good beating in the cells is almost par for the course if you piss off the wrong garda. My ex got a beating lately after being arrested for drunken disorderly conduct. He was arguing outside a club when a garda approached him and asked him his name, he replied peter, garda says peter what and like the smart ass he is he said peter pan. So a very pissed off garda says ah ya think your clever do ya and throws him into the back of a paddy wagon. He said he was in the cell about 10 minutes when a different garda came in, beat the sh!te out of him and left, origonal garda came back in happy out and told him fcuk off home.
Ive often said of a scumbag that has commited some awful crime that I hope to god they get a good hiding in the barracks but rationally speaking nobody should have that power to be able to carry out an assault on anybody that pisses them off

Why could he not tell the garda his name??
Did he have something to hide??

No he acts the ass after drink, thought he could make a fool of the garda. If the gardai want to get your name they'll get it, its a small town so no hiding who you are.

@ bosco boy, if you think this doesnt happen then im afraid youre mistaken.

Duggy747

Friend of mine was put in cell and was beaten black and blue by 3 Gardaì who had him pinned down. He was being cheeky when a Garda told him to go home and so he was lifted. Stupid move on his part but he's not stupid enough to raise a fist to any Garda.

Wasn't until shift change when another Garda came in and saw him on the floor covered in blood did anybody call an ambulance for him. Had to get around 12 stitches on his face and his torso was covered in bruises. Went to the station the next morning where they took pictures of his face and body.

The 3 Gardaì are been investigated by another Garda station and the ombudsman is involved too. He did tell my friend though not to expect anything since the judge tends to favour the Gardaì in these cell-beating cases.

He did say he would like to see one of the young Gardaì done as apparently numerous similiar cases had involved him.

In this particular station, beatings aren't unknown at all.

Witcher

jackie1974 wrote: »

Im delighted to read that, getting a good beating in the cells is almost par for the course if you piss off the wrong garda. My ex got a beating lately after being arrested for drunken disorderly conduct. He was arguing outside a club when a garda approached him and asked him his name, he replied peter, garda says peter what and like the smart ass he is he said peter pan. So a very pissed off garda says ah ya think your clever do ya and throws him into the back of a paddy wagon.

He said he was in the cell about 10 minutes when a different garda came in, beat the sh!te out of him and left, origonal garda came back in happy out and told him fcuk off home.

Ive often said of a scumbag that has commited some awful crime that I hope to god they get a good hiding in the barracks but rationally speaking nobody should have that power to be able to carry out an assault on anybody that pisses them off

You can bet he won't be a smartarse next time:pac:

Oranage2

Bosco boy wrote: »

Maybe it was Peter pan who came in and beat him! Sounds like he likes fairy tales!!!

You're probably stationed at never neverland or on the the handing out fines duty because in the real world son Gardai giving some lad a slap is all to common!

ItsAWindUp

Duggy747 wrote: »

Friend of mine was put in cell and was beaten black and blue by 3 Gardaì who had him pinned down. He was being cheeky when a Garda told him to go home and so he was lifted. Stupid move on his part but he's not stupid enough to raise a fist to any Garda.

Wasn't until shift change when another Garda came in and saw him on the floor covered in blood did anybody call an ambulance for him. Had to get around 12 stitches on his face and his torso was covered in bruises. Went to the station the next morning where they took pictures of his face and body.

The 3 Gardaì are been investigated by another Garda station and the ombudsman is involved too. He did tell my friend though not to expect anything since the judge tends to favour the Gardaì in these cell-beating cases.

He did say he would like to see one of the young Gardaì done as apparently numerous similiar cases had involved him.

In this particular station, beatings aren't unknown at all.

Clonmel?

Logical Fallacy

Personally i think Gardai who are convicted of a crime should receive tougher sentences because it's obvious that they were using their position as a member of the police to protect which is an insult to hard working honest coppers.

At the end of the day people pick a side, cops and criminals but the two worst things in the world are a rat crook and a bent cop.

amacachi

jackie1974 wrote: »

Ive often said of a scumbag that has commited some awful crime that I hope to god they get a good hiding in the barracks but rationally speaking nobody should have that power to be able to carry out an assault on anybody that pisses them off

Rationality? On After Hours? LOL. :pac:

pragmatic1

Oranage2 wrote: »

You're probably stationed at never neverland or on the the handing out fines duty because in the real world son Gardai giving some lad a slap is all to common!

Very common. And worse things than beatings in some cases.

LionelNashe

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Oranage2 wrote: »

You're probably stationed at never neverland or on the the handing out fines duty because in the real world son Gardai giving some lad a slap is all to common!

Very common. And worse things than beatings in some cases.

Wedgies?

hatrickpatrick

Dymo wrote: »

They attacked him knowing that they would get away with it because they were members of the Gardai, and the guy who moved the CCTV camera knew what was happening was wrong but decided to turn a blind eye to it.

Hope its a lesson for other want to be Robocops.

It's worse than that. He didn't just turn a blind eye, he actively diverted the camera away from the incident to deliberately cover up what had happened.

pragmatic1

LionelNashe wrote: »

Wedgies?

The horror.

jack presley

Will they do the time though? The last fella got off on appeal because the judge thought prison 'would be a bad place for a Gard to be'.

charlemont

Bosco boy wrote: »

Maybe it was Peter pan who came in and beat him! Sounds like he likes fairy tales!!!

My My, Those blinkers must be doing a wonderful job.

I could tell ye many a true story about assaults in the barracks but I took my beatings and gave as good back and I'v nothing against those responsible as I had a big stupid mouth. (Bar 1 which was uncalled for)

Look its quiet simple, Gardaí are men too and if you get too smart or aggressive with them you can expect violence to come into it. That fellow in Waterford should have kept calm if he didn't react like that with his jacket he wouldn't have got those few poxy slaps.

jackie1974

Blay wrote: »

jackie1974 wrote: »

Im delighted to read that, getting a good beating in the cells is almost par for the course if you piss off the wrong garda. My ex got a beating lately after being arrested for drunken disorderly conduct. He was arguing outside a club when a garda approached him and asked him his name, he replied peter, garda says peter what and like the smart ass he is he said peter pan. So a very pissed off garda says ah ya think your clever do ya and throws him into the back of a paddy wagon. He said he was in the cell about 10 minutes when a different garda came in, beat the sh!te out of him and left, origonal garda came back in happy out and told him fcuk off home.
Ive often said of a scumbag that has commited some awful crime that I hope to god they get a good hiding in the barracks but rationally speaking nobody should have that power to be able to carry out an assault on anybody that pisses them off

You can bet he won't be a smartarse next time:pac:

You would think wouldn't ya but no he is his own worst enemy after drinking.

charlemont

Duggy747 wrote: »

Friend of mine was put in cell and was beaten black and blue by 3 Gardaì who had him pinned down. He was being cheeky when a Garda told him to go home and so he was lifted. Stupid move on his part but he's not stupid enough to raise a fist to any Garda.

Wasn't until shift change when another Garda came in and saw him on the floor covered in blood did anybody call an ambulance for him. Had to get around 12 stitches on his face and his torso was covered in bruises. Went to the station the next morning where they took pictures of his face and body.

The 3 Gardaì are been investigated by another Garda station and the ombudsman is involved too. He did tell my friend though not to expect anything since the judge tends to favour the Gardaì in these cell-beating cases.

He did say he would like to see one of the young Gardaì done as apparently numerous similiar cases had involved him.

In this particular station, beatings aren't unknown at all.

I'll take a guess at Clonmel too.

Would his initials be M.M. Sounds very like one I'v heard of, Then the cute hoors brought him up for assault, If its the same fellow I'm thinking off he burnt a squad car out in Cahir few years later.

westendgirlie

jackie1974 wrote: »

You would think wouldn't ya but no he is his own worst enemy after drinking.

A cheeky mouth doesn't give the recipient of said mouth cuts and bruises.

Your b/friends actions = silly billy
Gardas actions = dangerous psychopath

jackie1974

charlemont wrote: »

Duggy747 wrote: »

Friend of mine was put in cell and was beaten black and blue by 3 Gardaì who had him pinned down. He was being cheeky when a Garda told him to go home and so he was lifted. Stupid move on his part but he's not stupid enough to raise a fist to any Garda.
Wasn't until shift change when another Garda came in and saw him on the floor covered in blood did anybody call an ambulance for him. Had to get around 12 stitches on his face and his torso was covered in bruises. Went to the station the next morning where they took pictures of his face and body.
The 3 Gardaì are been investigated by another Garda station and the ombudsman is involved too. He did tell my friend though not to expect anything since the judge tends to favour the Gardaì in these cell-beating cases.
He did say he would like to see one of the young Gardaì done as apparently numerous similiar cases had involved him.
In this particular station, beatings aren't unknown at all.

I'll take a guess at Clonmel too.
Would his initials be M.M. Sounds very like one I'v heard of, Then the cute hoors brought him up for assault, If its the same fellow I'm thinking off he burnt a squad car out in Cahir few years later.

Theres also the case of the 14 yr old boy that died in that station a couple of years ago. The heart breaking thing about it was the young fellas dad told the cops to take him in to teach him a lesson and the kid was dead the next morning.

ItsAWindUp

Clonmel Gardai are notorious around the town, not to be messed with.

Yahew

Cripes. That place needs a serious investigation.

woodoo

Not many get 3 years for assault these days. If that was a few scummers on a Sat night down in O'Connell street with 50 convictions a piece they wouldn't have got that.

charlemont

jackie1974 wrote: »

Theres also the case of the 14 yr old boy that died in that station a couple of years ago. The heart breaking thing about it was the young fellas dad told the cops to take him in to teach him a lesson and the kid was dead the next morning.

That young lads older brother and sister were well known to the Guards there so I reckon they wanted to teach him a lesson but I don't think it was intended to go as far as it did, They can get a wee bit carried away in that station. But in a town like that violence is the only thing people understand. Although I have to say some of the Guards there are very reasonable.

Connections to a certain family from Cooleens should be investigated though.

Muckie

On the flip sid of Gardai beating people, they are human too, work long

hours and deal with alot of smart arse scumbags (i'm not a Garda, but any

dealings i've every had with them, its yes Garda, no Garda.)

With a Family near where i grew up the man of the house was a complete

alcoholic, who liked nothing better than coming home drunk and beating

up the wife, Gardai called numerous times!

There was an only son in the family has Down syndrome, Father ended up

giving him a slap!

Gardai arrive, they had a "proper chat" with the Father, he never hit the

mother or son again, still an alcoholic bum, but, you know what, bad as it

sounds i'm glad they gave him a taste of he's own medicine.

starbelgrade

Muckie wrote: »

On the flip sid of Gardai beating people, they are human too, work long

hours and deal with alot of smart arse scumbags (i'm not a Garda, but any

dealings i've every had with them, its yes Garda, no Garda.)

With a Family near where i grew up the man of the house was a complete

alcoholic, who liked nothing better than coming home drunk and beating

up the wife, Gardai called numerous times!

There was an only son in the family has Down syndrome, Father ended up

giving him a slap!

Gardai arrive, they had a "proper chat" with the Father, he never hit the

mother or son again, still an alcoholic bum, but, you know what, bad as it

sounds i'm glad they gave him a taste of he's own medicine.

This poem doesn't rhyme.

Ellis Dee

woodoo wrote: »

Not many get 3 years for assault these days. If that was a few scummers on a Sat night down in O'Connell street with 50 convictions a piece they wouldn't have got that.

More's the pity!:eek:

However, those scummers, as you call them, are not entrusted with exercising public power and well paid for doing so, nor are they sworn to uphold the law rather than break it. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Richard Dower

Dotrel wrote: »

In fairness when one sees a packet of Penguins you are in all likelihood going to do something like that.

LOL!....Penguins, i'm peckish now :P

hatrickpatrick

charlemont wrote: »

That young lads older brother and sister were well known to the Guards there so I reckon they wanted to teach him a lesson but I don't think it was intended to go as far as it did, They can get a wee bit carried away in that station. But in a town like that violence is the only thing people understand. Although I have to say some of the Guards there are very reasonable.

Connections to a certain family from Cooleens should be investigated though.

And are you implying that "teaching him a lesson" is ok?

Violence for any reason other than defensive is never ok. Ever. EVER.. Their job is to arrest people who commit crime and use whatever force is absolutely necessary to make that arrest. Any further extra judicial punishment is 100% completely and totally unacceptable. The number of people here who defend "roughing up" genuinely makes me sad. Is that really the sort of state you want to live in? Isn't that one of the main reasons we threw the Brits out?

It is not the Gardai's duty to deliver "punishment beatings". If we wanted that kind of thuggery in our justice system we'd call in the IRA. :mad:

hatrickpatrick

Blay wrote: »

You can bet he won't be a smartarse next time:pac:

And you think that's ok? Seriously? You think that's acceptable conduct for a member of a police force?

(Note: I'm not bashing the Gardai in general here, I'm bashing civilian posters who are defending extra judicial punishment)

I thought I lived in a civilized democratic republic. Part of the requirement for attaining the label "civilized" is that you don't allow your police force to go any further than apprehending offenders. Punishment is for the courts, not for the police. And I don't know about you but I wouldn't like to see officially sanctioned beatings as a judicial punishment.

Do ye want Ireland to be run like Iran? Should we cut off people's arms for stealing or give them forty lashes? Like it or not, corporal punishment by the police is illegal. If you don't like that then campaign for a change in the law.

Hootanany

They will not do there full time in a proper prison

hatrickpatrick

Hootanany wrote: »

They will not do there full time in a proper prison

Probably not, but it's a start. It's certainly better than the last time when a sentence was handed down, and then the judge later suspended it because "we don't put gardai in prison, they might not enjoy it"

Dyr

From what I remember he did actually hand down a custodial sentence to that knacker garda, thus forcing his defence to appeal that there was a convention in place whereby coppers don't go to jail. The judge was highlighting the fact that gardai expect and receive-get-out-jail cards

Rawhead

Hootanany wrote: »

They will not do there full time in a proper prison

Yes they will. They will be entitled to 1/4 remission like everyone else if they behave. They will be locked up on C1 landing in the Midlands Prison. This landing is reserved for Gardai, Prison Officers etc who get locked up. They will be locked in their cells 23hrs a day and it is a very restrictive regime because of the obvious risks they face from the general prison population. Believe me it is hard time and that is why judges are usually reluctant to lock up Gardai or PO's.
I think the sentences were very harsh for a first offence and it is obvious the judge is making an example of these lads.

Rawhead

Rawhead wrote: »

I think the sentences were very harsh for a first offence and it is obvious the judge is making an example of these lads.

Cant DISAGREE more.

Gardaí are supposed to be there to uphold the law not take a part in a blatant abuse of their powers. They know the law better than the average person so they knew what they were doing was wrong...very wrong.

If there was no CCTV footage there would never even have been a case. How many beatings from Gardaí do people hear about? It's not a one off case by any stretch of the imagination. These píss ants were, unluckily for them, caught red handed.

First offence leniency my árse.....if that poor man had been more seriously injured or indeed killed would there be any argument to their sentence?
That man was bundled to the ground...struck in the head....kicked and then thrown face first into a van whilst hand-cuffed meaning he had no chance in protecting his face/head. Sometimes it only takes a minor bump on the head to cause serious brain injury or death.
In the mean time the Garda camera operator employed by the state to serve the public deliberately attempts to cover up his "buddies" wrong doings. He then tells bare faced lies that "the joystick controlling the camera was too sensitive". He knew he was wrong yet he still couldnt own up to it and lies in an attempt to clear himself.

Those 3 thugs (and that is exactly what they are) can count themselves lucky in my opinion.

Vizzy

charlemont wrote: »

That young lads older brother and sister were well known to the Guards there so I reckon they wanted to teach him a lesson but I don't think it was intended to go as far as it did, They can get a wee bit carried away in that station. But in a town like that violence is the only thing people understand. Although I have to say some of the Guards there are very reasonable.

Connections to a certain family from Cooleens should be investigated though.

I thought that the Gardai were never suspected of beating anybody in that case(could be wrong) but simply let the young lad die in custody.
Wasn't the lad beaten up by another older guy a few days previously and that he was convicted of assault?

charlemont

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

And are you implying that "teaching him a lesson" is ok?

Violence for any reason other than defensive is never ok. Ever. EVER.. Their job is to arrest people who commit crime and use whatever force is absolutely necessary to make that arrest. Any further extra judicial punishment is 100% completely and totally unacceptable. The number of people here who defend "roughing up" genuinely makes me sad. Is that really the sort of state you want to live in? Isn't that one of the main reasons we threw the Brits out?

It is not the Gardai's duty to deliver "punishment beatings". If we wanted that kind of thuggery in our justice system we'd call in the IRA. :mad:

No, I think it was wrong what happened that lad and the cover up was a disgrace and the lies told to the hospital staff were outrageous.

I'm basically trying to say that the reality is people have tempers and use violence whether its a Garda or a Taxi Driver or a Doctor, I'm not condoning any further extra judicial punishments.