water rates passed

Hoffmans

http://www.waterford-news.ie/news/mhojidgbmh/

well done mayor hayes every family struggling on the breadline will thank you indeed............
seeing all monies collected go back to the finance dept and on to the imf ......

Sully

To be fair, the money is being ring fenced to local authorities. It isn't going back to the national government / EU / IMF bailout. Its being used to address our water supply.

For those who are struggling, there may be exemptions.

molby

The fu**er should be shot.I bet the fellows frequenting the early houses will be exempt.I give up

seanybiker

It says if you don't overuse then it won't cost anything. Granted we will probably only get 1 litre free

Nypd

Roll on the air tax

!3theraven

Sully wrote: »

To be fair, the money is being ring fenced to local authorities. It isn't going back to the national government / EU / IMF bailout. Its being used to address our water supply.

For those who are struggling, there may be exemptions.

The small minority who support water charges and who will be able to afford it, often make this argument address our water supply, in countries like spain it makes sense to charge people for water to conserve it, as there,s a lack of water there, but here in a country with plenty of rainfall , water charges have nothing to do with water conservation,The Government will say that the water charges will conserve water, but if they put €1bn into fixing leaks, they would save ten times as much,Proponents of water tax offer the spurious argument that metering and charging will result in greater levels of conservation. The fact remains however that substantial amounts of water continue to be lost through the state’s antiquated water pipes. As a result of the failure of successive governments to invest in the water infrastructure up to 40 per cent of water is lost through leaking pipes.

According to a recent Irish times article, here is what we will be expected to pay for water charges.

We could be asked to pay €1,000 a year for water charges alone in a few years time, according to Prof Richard Tol of the Economic and Social Research Institute

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/1108/1224307207032.html?fb_ref=.TriElh4Ob2A.like&fb_source=profile_oneline

fricatus

!3theraven wrote: »

in countries like spain it makes sense to charge people for water to conserve it, as there,s a lack of water there, but here in a country with plenty of rainfall , water charges have nothing to do with water conservation

Nonsense. It's nothing to do with the amount of water available through rainfall - of course we've more than enough of that! However, treated water that is drinkable is a scarce resource.

!3theraven wrote: »

The Government will say that the water charges will conserve water, but if they put €1bn into fixing leaks, they would save ten times as much

Ten times as much, eh? Sure, leakage is a major problem, but have you a source for that statistic?

!3theraven wrote: »

Proponents of water tax offer the spurious argument that metering and charging will result in greater levels of conservation.

How is that a spurious argument? Drinking water costs money to produce, just the same as electricity does - the only difference being that water is not charged to the consumer in this country. These days everyone is using energy-efficient appliances and CFL bulbs so as to cut down on energy usage and costs. If electricity was free to the consumer like water is, do you think anyone would care about energy efficiency? Of course not - they'd leave the lights on all night and run dishwashers on half-loads, etc.

Apply the same argument to water. We treat water for drinking, but we literally flush it down the toilet then, as well as washing cars and watering plants with it. Madness! But why? Because we don't have to pay for it!

If people paid for water in proportion to their usage, you'd soon see grey-water systems being fitted to houses for flushing toilets and washing clothes. At the very least, people would install tanks for collecting rainwater and use that for outdoor use, like watering plants and washing cars.

I know of one particular business where the guy uses a small amount of paid-for water at his business premises, but brings most of his work out to his house, where he has the private supply running all day, with soapy water runoff flowing down the street. He's undercutting other businesses who have to pay for their water, and he's getting basically a free resource on the back of the taxpayer. Do you not think the likes of him should pay?

psychward

Sully wrote: »

To be fair, the money is being ring fenced to local authorities. It isn't going back to the national government / EU / IMF bailout. Its being used to address our water supply.

For those who are struggling, there may be exemptions.

Theres no such thing as ring fencing. It's more creative accounting than ring fencing. And this country knows all about creative accounting due to taxpayer ownership of a world centre of creative accounting 'excellence' in Anglo Bank.
It's effectively shifting the burden of supporting bondholders and stockmarket gamblers on to the little guy.

fricatus

psychward wrote: »

Theres no such thing as ring fencing. It's more creative accounting than ring fencing. And this country knows all about creative accounting due to taxpayer ownership of a world centre of creative accounting 'excellence' in Anglo Bank.
It's effectively shifting the burden of supporting bondholders and stockmarket gamblers on to the little guy.

The carry-on at Anglo and in the global financial system generally, and the way we've bailed out these bondholders has been so disgraceful that it is absolutely indefensible. Yes the system is rotten, and no, us little guys should not pay for the mistakes of the rich.

However if you don't like a particular idea for reform, you can't just attack it by shouting "but look at what went on at Anglo!" and expecting that to be your argument. That's like shouting "Nazi!" at people wanting a sensible immigration policy. These things all have to be debated on their own merits. Anglo and the bondholders are a separate issue, on which, I suspect, we agree!

psychward

fricatus wrote: »

However if you don't like a particular idea for reform, you can't just attack it by shouting "but look at what went on at Anglo!" and expecting that to be your argument.

I was debating the issue on it's own merits by pointing out that reform is pointless if we don't benefit from it. In this case we don't as any money we save is sent to the bondholders and stockmarket gamblers.
Some country we are when increased taxes means worse public services.

wellboytoo

Sooner the water rates and the house rates are in place the better as far as I am concerned, we can then get back to where we were in 1977, before Lynch and haughey F**ked us over .
Unless we raise monies localy to be spent localy we are at nothing as a City and County, the commercial rate payer is bearing the bulk of the burden at the moment and they are about to revolt as the charges are unsustainable in the present envirnoment.
People have to pay for services,simple as , I know they have a big learning curve that will be painfull for some but we have been fooling ourselves for years that all these things are free.
The sooner all our politicians grow a pair and just make the hard decisions the better , they are not going to get the vote the next time anyway, so make the decisions and society will be the better for it anyway, back to subject (Mod) fair play to Pat Hayes he could have played the political card and gone all lefty and stuff, he did the right and hard thing and stood his ground, more of it I say.

Icky Thump

"every man women and child has the right to clean drinkable water"

one of thebasic human rights

never mind this rubbish of the poor wont have to pay............... all that means is we will force does who are strugling to stand in a que for a couple of hours a month to keep proving the cant pay for water.

it sick the things we do to the less fortunate in this country

i for one will not be installing a water meter in my house. they cantcut me off without cutting the whole neighbourhood off

wellboytoo

Icky Thump wrote: »

"every man women and child has the right to clean drinkable water"

one of thebasic human rights

never mind this rubbish of the poor wont have to pay............... all that means is we will force does who are strugling to stand in a que for a couple of hours a month to keep proving the cant pay for water.

it sick the things we do to the less fortunate in this country

i for one will not be installing a water meter in my house. they cantcut me off without cutting the whole neighbourhood off

You wont be installing the meter the council will, and they can cut you off without affecting your neighbours or entering your property! buy lots of Lynx!

Icky Thump

wellboytoo wrote: »

You wont be installing the meter the council will, and they can cut you off without affecting your neighbours or entering your property! buy lots of Lynx!

the meters have to be installed in each home. it is not possible currently to cut off an aindividual house from water

wellboytoo

Icky Thump wrote: »

wellboytoo wrote: »

You wont be installing the meter the council will, and they can cut you off without affecting your neighbours or entering your property! buy lots of Lynx!

the meters have to be installed in each home. it is not possible currently to cut off an aindividual house from water

They are installed on the footpath outside the house curtillage look at most estates built on the last five years they are a black plastic marked uisce they have been fitted without meters in them for the bulk of new houses. It is a five minute job to fit them. Ihave done

feet of flame

fricatus wrote: »

Nonsense. It's nothing to do with the amount of water available through rainfall - of course we've more than enough of that! However, treated water that is drinkable is a scarce resource.




Ten times as much, eh? Sure, leakage is a major problem, but have you a source for that statistic?




How is that a spurious argument? Drinking water costs money to produce, just the same as electricity does - the only difference being that water is not charged to the consumer in this country. These days everyone is using energy-efficient appliances and CFL bulbs so as to cut down on energy usage and costs. If electricity was free to the consumer like water is, do you think anyone would care about energy efficiency? Of course not - they'd leave the lights on all night and run dishwashers on half-loads, etc.

Apply the same argument to water. We treat water for drinking, but we literally flush it down the toilet then, as well as washing cars and watering plants with it. Madness! But why? Because we don't have to pay for it!

If people paid for water in proportion to their usage, you'd soon see grey-water systems being fitted to houses for flushing toilets and washing clothes. At the very least, people would install tanks for collecting rainwater and use that for outdoor use, like watering plants and washing cars.

I know of one particular business where the guy uses a small amount of paid-for water at his business premises, but brings most of his work out to his house, where he has the private supply running all day, with soapy water runoff flowing down the street. He's undercutting other businesses who have to pay for their water, and he's getting basically a free resource on the back of the taxpayer. Do you not think the likes of him should pay?

I thought that was why i paid taxes, i have already paid for the water!!!

Hoffmans

the cost of installing metres will only be viable if the charge goes up to round 500 for 2014 on,which no doubt it will, add in then projected mortgage rises,extra taxes and excise all in the name of anglo and co, its no wonder fas are sending out texts bout some canidian jobs fair, they want us gone gone gone....

wellboytoo

Hoffmans wrote: »

the cost of installing metres will only be viable if the charge goes up to round 500 for 2014 on,which no doubt it will, add in then projected mortgage rises,extra taxes and excise all in the name of anglo and co, its no wonder fas are sending out texts bout some canidian jobs fair, they want us gone gone gone....

Where would you be getting those figures from? A water meter will earn money for fifty years spread the cost over twenty five even and you are talking a tenner a year contribution to capital, and that is a high cost if one was giving out a large contract you could halve that, your figures do not stand up !

Hoffmans

wellboytoo wrote: »

Hoffmans wrote: »

the cost of installing metres will only be viable if the charge goes up to round 500 for 2014 on,which no doubt it will, add in then projected mortgage rises,extra taxes and excise all in the name of anglo and co, its no wonder fas are sending out texts bout some canidian jobs fair, they want us gone gone gone....

Where would you be getting those figures from? A water meter will earn money for fifty years spread the cost over twenty five even and you are talking a tenner a year contribution to capital, and that is a high cost if one was giving out a large contract you could halve that, your figures do not stand up !

why isnt the inital figure a tenner then?

wellboytoo

Hoffmans wrote: »

wellboytoo wrote: »

Hoffmans wrote: »

the cost of installing metres will only be viable if the charge goes up to round 500 for 2014 on,which no doubt it will, add in then projected mortgage rises,extra taxes and excise all in the name of anglo and co, its no wonder fas are sending out texts bout some canidian jobs fair, they want us gone gone gone....

Where would you be getting those figures from? A water meter will earn money for fifty years spread the cost over twenty five even and you are talking a tenner a year contribution to capital, and that is a high cost if one was giving out a large contract you could halve that, your figures do not stand up !

why isnt the inital figure a tenner then?

10X25 = 250 I was basing the capital cost of fitting the meter. The question was what was yours based on 250000 per meter?

Kracken

What I am wondering who will have to cover the cost of meter fitting if your water supply runs down the back of the hour and they want to fit meters at the front?

Will it be a flat charge or a like it or lump it attitude (were the house owner has to cover the cost)

wellboytoo

Kracken wrote: »

What I am wondering who will have to cover the cost of meter fitting if your water supply runs down the back of the hour and they want to fit meters at the front?

Will it be a flat charge or a like it or lump it attitude (were the house owner has to cover the cost)

I cant claim to know exactly but would imagine there will be no charge for the fitting of a meter, just for the water the cost of metering will be built in

Hoffmans

dont worry you will be paying for it all from the needless use of the lear jet @5k an hour right down to the last piece of plastic pipe......

Kreator1984

wellboytoo wrote: »

I cant claim to know exactly but would imagine there will be no charge for the fitting of a meter, just for the water the cost of metering will be built in

The meter itself is not that dear but authorities ought to support the community for instance with the free water meters, I think.

Meter prices :

http://radionics.rs-online.com/web/c/?searchTerm=water+meters&cm_mmc=IE-PPC-0411-_-google-_-1_MRO_Spt_Generic_Test_Measurment-_-water%20meter_Phrase

https://shop.betavalve.com/meters

http://www.meters.co.uk/

http://www.bmeters.com/Categoria.asp?CID=1

But if they would like to charge us for the meters anyway I have much much cheaper alternative - polish water meter ( I am polish so it wouldn`t be a problem to order them from Poland ) , obviously only those which will be fully compatible with Irish specification and comply with Irish norms.

Prices are listed below in polish currency - ZLOTY ( PLN ) - 1 EUR = 4.49 PLN - >>>>> http://www.xe.com/ucc/convert/?Amount=1&From=EUR&To=PLN


PRICE LISTS :

http://www.grzanie.eu/cenniki/cennik_bmeters_wodomierze.pdf

http://www.panta.pl/cennik/wodomierze_mieszkaniowe_2007_2008.pdf





For example : This type of water meter - Residia-Jet-C - costs 52 PLN which equals 11.58 EUR plus delivery charge about 5 EUR = about 17 EUR

---

>>>>>> GO TO PAGE 5 ON THIS WEBSITE http://www.panta.pl/cennik/wodomierze_mieszkaniowe_2007_2008.pdf

Anybody interested?

labratd22

What's to stop people letting the meter being installed and then the next day filling the manhole/standpipe thing with cement thus making reading of the meter impossible?

wellboytoo

labratd22 wrote: »

What's to stop people letting the meter being installed and then the next day filling the manhole/standpipe thing with cement thus making reading of the meter impossible?

Depending on the choice of meters some have rfid technology built in and the van reading them only has
to drive past them to read them