Box Squats for Raw Lifting?

BossArky · 08-11-2011 8:36am #1

The past couple of weeks have seen me fiddle around with light box squats.

My usual raw squat stance is shoulder width. I've heard the argument that wide stance squatting (e.g to a box) will carry over to allow narrow stance squatting (i.e. to my usual stance), but narrow stance will not carry over to wide stance.

I noticed this at a competition back in June where I failed 152.5kg on my second squat by accidently setting up with too wide a stance. For the third squat, a retake of 152.5kg, I took my stance in and it was fine.

So... opinions please... do you think wide stance box squatting for a cycle (10-12 weeks) would benefit my raw squat? I'm probably gonna do it anyway, just wanna stimulate a debate :pac:

Hanley · 08-11-2011 11:04am

Depends how you structure it and transition back to normal squatting tbh.

Box squatting can help tho alright. Especially banded variations for more experienced guys (but not necessarily done ME style).

the drifter · 08-11-2011 2:11pm

Hanley wrote: »

Depends how you structure it and transition back to normal squatting tbh.

Box squatting can help tho alright. Especially banded variations for more experienced guys (but not necessarily done ME style).

this....you cant just box squat and then expect a PR on backsquatting straight away. but there is def a good carry over from it. I think more so if your a wide stance squatter.

deadlybuzzman · 08-11-2011 10:49pm

talking of wide squatting, how does everyone else find wider stances on the hips? My hip flexor was at me after my last session and I vaguely remember reading someone mentioning their hips felt better with a narrower stance

the drifter · 08-11-2011 11:24pm

deadlybuzzman wrote: »

talking of wide squatting, how does everyone else find wider stances on the hips? My hip flexor was at me after my last session and I vaguely remember reading someone mentioning their hips felt better with a narrower stance

Pretty much...narrower feels better...but there two totally different lifts if you ask me...IMO narrow stance is better for high bar...low bar and wide...but thats just me...

Da Za · 09-11-2011 12:27am

Drift, will I be seeing you at the weekend?

the drifter · 09-11-2011 12:57am

Da Za wrote: »

Drift, will I be seeing you at the weekend?

yip....

boss has accepted that he gives me monday off or well im just not coming in monday

the drifter · 09-11-2011 12:58am

Boss lob up a video of your squat will ya... im too lazy to look for one!

Da Za · 09-11-2011 2:50pm

the drifter wrote: »

Boss lob up a video of your squat will ya... im too lazy to look for one!

Looking forward to the weekend, super hydration is in progress.

Haven't put up a vid on youtube in a while. I'll be PR'ing that's fo sho

the drifter · 09-11-2011 4:49pm

Da Za wrote: »

Looking forward to the weekend, super hydration is in progress.

Haven't put up a vid on youtube in a while. I'll be PR'ing that's fo sho

not you you twat...Bossarky....

I dont care about your squats....:D

dantes87 · 10-11-2011 12:48am

Just added a dynamic effort day to my training.
I'm squatting to a box with short pause but I don't sit back on the box.

I squat medium stance and I box squat with similar stance.

Few things I want from these-
- more power out of the hole
- learn to stop letting hips rise before shoulders
- maybe have positive transfer to football if I get back into it

the drifter · 10-11-2011 8:28am

dantes87 wrote: »

Just added a dynamic effort day to my training.
I'm squatting to a box with short pause but I don't sit back on the box.

I squat medium stance and I box squat with similar stance.

Few things I want from these-
- more power out of the hole
- learn to stop letting hips rise before shoulders
- maybe have positive transfer to football if I get back into it

so are you just barely touching the box and now letting take the weight?

the drifter · 10-11-2011 8:29am

also are you free squatting still?

BossArky · 10-11-2011 9:41am

Thanks for the feedback!

the drifter wrote: »

Boss lob up a video of your squat will ya... im too lazy to look for one!

I'm not looking for squatting feedback just yet - more the theory. Maybe once I get the hang of box squats a few month or two I may throw up a video. Cheers.

Hanley · 10-11-2011 12:44pm

dantes87 wrote: »

Just added a dynamic effort day to my training.
I'm squatting to a box with short pause but I don't sit back on the box.

I squat medium stance and I box squat with similar stance.

Few things I want from these-
- more power out of the hole
- learn to stop letting hips rise before shoulders
- maybe have positive transfer to football if I get back into it

Unfortunately you're basically doing everything wrong so.

You're not "box squatting" in the manner intended by Louie et al.

You're squatting high, using the box as a depth gauge, with light weight.

What you probably SHOULD be doing:
1) stance wider than normal, point the toes out and make sure your knees point in the same direction
2) break at the hips and keep sitting back so your shins remain vertical at the bottom position
3) pause for a "one one thousand" or slightly longer count while maintain all your muscular tension so the weight is still supported
4) drive up hard, leading up with your head and chest

Simples

(I'll caution, finding the right groove can be troublesome and you may need to start with a higher box to facilitate the sitting back thing, but you can lower gradually as you go)

I'd a dude box squatting relatively heavy 2x per week for the last 6 weeks as oer the above, think he pulled 4-5x during that time too. Added like 14% to his DL in that time period.

COH · 10-11-2011 12:48pm

Hanley wrote: »

I'd a dude box squatting relatively heavy 2x per week for the last 6 weeks as oer the above, think he pulled 4-5x during that time too. Added like 14% to his DL in that time period.

Glute/Hip strength ftw!

dantes87 · 10-11-2011 2:13pm

the drifter wrote: »

so are you just barely touching the box and now letting take the weight?

No, I'm pausing on the box for a one second count.
Don't know what you mean by the bolded part?

the drifter wrote: »

also are you free squatting still?

Yes, at least once per week.

Hanley wrote: »

Unfortunately you're basically doing everything wrong so.

You're not "box squatting" in the manner intended by Louie et al.

You're squatting high, using the box as a depth gauge, with light weight.

Maybe my post wasn't clear, I pause for a one second count, I just don't sit back any more than my free squat.
Don't know how you can tell I'm squatting high?

I've read they sometimes squat to high (above parallel) boxes at westside anyway, but that's a separate issue I suppose.

Hanley wrote: »

What you probably SHOULD be doing:
1) stance wider than normal, point the toes out and make sure your knees point in the same direction
2) break at the hips and keep sitting back so your shins remain vertical at the bottom position
3) pause for a "one one thousand" or slightly longer count while maintain all your muscular tension so the weight is still supported
4) drive up hard, leading up with your head and chest

Simples

(I'll caution, finding the right groove can be troublesome and you may need to start with a higher box to facilitate the sitting back thing, but you can lower gradually as you go)

I'd a dude box squatting relatively heavy 2x per week for the last 6 weeks as oer the above, think he pulled 4-5x during that time too. Added like 14% to his DL in that time period.

Thanks, I'm doing 3&4 already, unfortunately I don't have mobility to go wider.

There is a debate about box squats for raw lifters. It seems to revolve around sitting back excessively into a position that doesn't happen in a raw squat. You cannot really get vertical shin angle in free squat unless you are geared/super wide. So this is the part of box squat I neglect, for now.

Nice progress there, can I have 14% on deadlift too?:pac:
Just curious, does he pull sumo?

kevpants · 16-11-2011 12:40am

Box squatting myself a bit recently. Don't think of it as a squat variation or assistance exercise. They're for your glutes and hips predominantly and strong glutes and hips are very very useful.

I find them better than RDL's and other deadlift variations for glute stuff... other than sumos, which are awesome.

BossArky · 16-11-2011 4:16am

I had a rubbish box squat session on Monday as documented in my log.

I understand the concept: keep shins vertical, wide stance, sit back, use glutes, hips etc.... but this makes me fall backwards as centre of gravity ends up behind heels. Are you supposed to compensate by leaning far forward from the waist?

Worked up to 80kg + ~40kg of band tension for a rep. It was ugly, forward and all quads.

Dropped down to 40kg + ~40kg band tension, sat back fine, ... but couldn't budge up off the box. That drew a few sniggers.

Back to the drawing board with probably just the bar.

Hanley · 16-11-2011 10:13am

BossArky wrote: »

I had a rubbish box squat session on Monday as documented in my log.

I understand the concept: keep shins vertical, wide stance, sit back, use glutes, hips etc.... but this makes me fall backwards as centre of gravity ends up behind heels. Are you supposed to compensate by leaning far forward from the waist?

Yes. And point your feet out and spread your knees. Both should allow you do get your shins to vertical without falling over backwards.

Worked up to 80kg + ~40kg of band tension for a rep. It was ugly, forward and all quads.

Dropped down to 40kg + ~40kg band tension, sat back fine, ... but couldn't budge up off the box. That drew a few sniggers.

Back to the drawing board with probably just the bar.

Terrible decision going that hard first time out tbh!! The bands make an awkward movement even tougher. As Kev said, I tihnk they're best used as an assistance exercise for intermediate lifters rather than ME.

Plus the band position can screw things up (ie if you don't choke them in the right place they'll be pulling your forward/backward).

Box Squats for Raw Lifting?

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