4 pints of beer = "hazardous drinking" now...

Helix

McTigs wrote: »

Sorry but that is just plain wrong. To believe people who enjoy a few pints and a few fags at the weekend are maintaining addictions is horribly wide of the mark.

Maybe they just enjoy and few pints and enjoy a few fags at the weekend and why shouldn't they. They are very enjoyable.

thats not what i said though, im talking about the people who literally cannot go out somewhere without drinking. how many times has someone you know not gone out at the weekend because they were on antibiotics and couldnt drink, for example. people who simply cannot function in a social situation without drinking do have a form of alcoholism

stimpson

Helix wrote: »

thats not what i said though, im talking about the people who literally cannot go out somewhere without drinking. how many times has someone you know not gone out at the weekend because they were on antibiotics and couldnt drink, for example. people who simply cannot function in a social situation without drinking do have a form of alcoholism

Shyness = alcoholism.

What a load of nonsense.

old hippy

Yahew wrote: »

old joke about AA in Los Angeles. But whatever AA accepts as alcoholic, nobody on 4 pints a month is one.

Ah, I see! Well, you wouldn't get much networking in South London Not the type you mean, I reckons...

4 pints a month? Nay sir. But you could be a recovering alcoholic in that case. Some people attend meetings and they haven't had a drink in years!

L'prof

Helix wrote: »

thats not what i said though, im talking about the people who literally cannot go out somewhere without drinking. how many times has someone you know not gone out at the weekend because they were on antibiotics and couldnt drink, for example. people who simply cannot function in a social situation without drinking do have a form of alcoholism

Drinking on antibiotics is far more fun than staying in though!

Dermighty

I drink perhaps twice a month at most and it (depending on the amount of sleep I got the night before, how much I ate during the day) between 3 and 7 pints to make me drunk.

Helix

Helix wrote: »

thats not what i said though, im talking about the people who literally cannot go out somewhere without drinking. how many times has someone you know not gone out at the weekend because they were on antibiotics and couldnt drink, for example. people who simply cannot function in a social situation without drinking do have a form of alcoholism

In general I would avoid going out if I wasn't drinking. Not because I couldn't function but because its no where near as much fun and your sitting there watching everyone else having the craic and getting drunk while your drinking a soft drink wishing you could be drinking, Id rather wait at home.

But its not alcoholism, you really cant be using the term for social drinkers as I said before its making little out of a word which should be reserved for people who are actually genuinely having their lives effect by alcohol.

Helix

stimpson wrote: »

Shyness = alcoholism.

What a load of nonsense.

if people need to be drunk in order to interact, then the problem goes much deeper than shyness, and it builds a reliance on the drug to get them through social situations. replace alcohol with illegal drugs and everyone agrees with it

Carly Pitiful Cellar wrote: »

Iits no where near as much fun and your sitting there watching everyone else having the craic and getting drunk while your drinking a soft drink wishing you could be drinking,

again, do you not think that points to a dependency issue? being out with your mates, being able to have the craic, but completely focusing on the fact that they're drinking and you wish you could drink? that's not right

Helix

Helix wrote: »

again, do you not think that points to a dependency issue? being out with your mates, being able to have the craic, but completely focusing on the fact that they're drinking and you wish you could drink? that's not right

No it means its much more fun being out when your drinking. I don't see why you need to tie it in with dependency. I know literally nobody of my age group who would disagree and only know one person who is willing to go out regularly when sober and its purely because he gets such bad hangovers that he cant do a thing for the whole say after being on a session.

By your logic about 80% of the population between 18 and 30 are alcoholics and no matter how you look at it that cant be right.

Helix

Carly Pitiful Cellar wrote: »

By your logic about 80% of the population between 18 and 30 are alcoholics and no matter how you look at it that cant be right.

by most country's logic, about 80% of the irish population between 18 and 30 ARE alcoholics. that's my point

the level of alcohol abuse in ireland is nothing short of phenomenal, well beyond almost everywhere else in scale

you have people in low paying jobs who think nothing of spending 25-40% of their weekly wage on sessions at the weekend... how could that be anything but a form of alcoholism

then youve people like you who are so utterly unable to understand that you can go out with your mates and have a great craic without drinking, to the extent that when you're not drinking and they are, you say that all you can do is sit there in a bad mood because you're not drinking

Snakeblood

Helix wrote: »

by most country's logic, about 80% of the irish population between 18 and 30 ARE alcoholics. that's my point

the level of alcohol abuse in ireland is nothing short of phenomenal, well beyond almost everywhere else in scale

you have people in low paying jobs who think nothing of spending 25-40% of their weekly wage on sessions at the weekend... how could that be anything but a form of alcoholism

then youve people like you who are so utterly unable to understand that you can go out with your mates and have a great craic without drinking, to the extent that when you're not drinking and they are, you say that all you can do is sit there in a bad mood because you're not drinking

That's actually true. It's just hard to see from inside the fishbowl. I was spending 25-40% of my money on booze in my twenties. Didn't think it was a problem but that's youth and the culture for you.

Helix

Helix wrote: »

by most country's logic, about 80% of the irish population between 18 and 30 ARE alcoholics. that's my point

the level of alcohol abuse in ireland is nothing short of phenomenal, well beyond almost everywhere else in scale

you have people in low paying jobs who think nothing of spending 25-40% of their weekly wage on sessions at the weekend... how could that be anything but a form of alcoholism

then youve people like you who are so utterly unable to understand that you can go out with your mates and have a great craic without drinking, to the extent that when you're not drinking and they are, you say that all you can do is sit there in a bad mood because you're not drinking

I just don't agree with your definition of alcoholism, I think its flawed and I reckon most would disagree including people who actually work with real alcoholics. I've seen real alcoholics in action myself and there is just no comparison.

The thing is I dont see the problem with wanting to drink on a night out. Its not that I am unable to understand you can have fun because I have tired it, though not for a long time, and there is no way I could have any where near the same night out with out drinking. How could you with out the pleasurable effects that drinking has. Its like having the choice between a piece of dry toast and a fillet steak, why would I chose the dry toast.

I will be hitting for the pub in about 20 mins and the thought of going there and drinking soft drinks for the evening would just not appeal to me at all.

Helix

Carly Pitiful Cellar wrote: »

there is no way I could have any where near the same night out with out drinking. How could you with out the pleasurable effects that drinking has. Its like having the choice between a piece of dry toast and a fillet steak, why would I chose the dry toast.

I will be hitting for the pub in about 20 mins and the thought of drinking soft drinks for the evening just wouldn't be anywhere near as much fun.

that's pretty much the irish mentality, and until you actually get out of there and see a bit of the world, you're not going to understand why other countries see what you're doing as painfully immature. nothing wrong with having a drink, nor is there anything wrong with getting drunk every now and again, but it's taken beyond anything resembling acceptability by irish culture

again, you continually display a complete lack of understanding at how anyone could possibly have as good a night out sober as drinking. that's down to the fact that irish social life revolves almost exclusively around the pub. that's literally the first and last idea anyone there, me included when i lived there, has when it comes to doing something in a social setting. "what'll we do?"... go to the pub, go get drunk, have some cans at my house, go to a concert and get locked. that's it.

im not a teetotaller, i very much enjoy a drink, but believe it or not there's a hell of a lot more to socialising than the bi weekly slobber fest that goes on in most irish people's lives

its not big, its not clever and its not interesting. in fact it makes people so painfully dull that it borders on the farcical. it's not a good sign when the thing that people look forward to most in the week is getting drunk, talking crap and staggering home. the only reason people think its great craic is because they havent a clue how to socialise any other way

stimpson

Helix wrote: »

if people need to be drunk in order to interact, then the problem goes much deeper than shyness, and it builds a reliance on the drug to get them through social situations. replace alcohol with illegal drugs and everyone agrees with it

You're a psychologist then? If you're going to make generalizations like that it isnt going to lend much weight to your argument. And I think you'll find that not everyone agrees with you on illegal drugs. Many experts would consider cannabis and ecxtacy as less harmful than alcohol.

again, do you not think that points to a dependency issue? being out with your mates, being able to have the craic, but completely focusing on the fact that they're drinking and you wish you could drink? that's not right

I can go out without drinking and enjoy myself, but I wouldn't go to a pub with drinkers and not drink. Not because I *need* a drink, but because I don't enjoy the company of drinkers when I'm sober.

Yahew

Helix wrote: »

that's pretty much the irish mentality, and until you actually get out of there and see a bit of the world, you're not going to understand why other countries see what you're doing as painfully immature. nothing wrong with having a drink, nor is there anything wrong with getting drunk every now and again, but it's taken beyond anything resembling acceptability by irish culture

again, you continually display a complete lack of understanding at how anyone could possibly have as good a night out sober as drinking. that's down to the fact that irish social life revolves almost exclusively around the pub. that's literally the first and last idea anyone there, me included when i lived there, has when it comes to doing something in a social setting. "what'll we do?"... go to the pub, go get drunk, have some cans at my house, go to a concert and get locked. that's it.

im not a teetotaller, i very much enjoy a drink, but believe it or not there's a hell of a lot more to socialising than the bi weekly slobber fest that goes on in most irish people's lives

its not big, its not clever and its not interesting. in fact it makes people so painfully dull that it borders on the farcical. it's not a good sign when the thing that people look forward to most in the week is getting drunk, talking crap and staggering home. the only reason people think its great craic is because they havent a clue how to socialise any other way

You are creating straw men. People often go out to have fun watching movies, eating, etc. in Ireland as everywhere else. Social interaction, like parties are different. I have been to dry parties - and the conversation for 5 execrable hours never got above small talk.

Any alien anthropologist would see that all humans - except where it is banned by religion - are more sociable when slightly tipsy, and all social occasions where people interact involve drink. There is also no correlation between the shy and the drinkers - which would confirm your theory. The loud people I know, are voluminous drinkers.

And you enjoy a pint occasionally yourself, meaning by your own definition, you are an alcoholic. That, or perhaps, you didn't read the OP - we are talking about a mere 4 pints a month.

Having searched your history you admit to downing 10+ pints before leaving Ireland for Canada, which has sullied your view on Irish drinking habits I think. I have never drunk that amount ( of pints, or in units) bar one or two exceptions in my life, but you have been making the point that an evening made more enjoyable by drink - however few - is a form of alcoholism. I don't even think that binge drinking is a form of alcoholism, the real definition of any addict is someone who needs the drug daily ( so your social smokers were not addicts either, and social smokers can give up smoking very easily).

Now to stats. Ireland does drink more than Canada - 14th in the world at 14.4 litres of pure alcohol per year ( Moldova comes tops). Canada downs 9.77, hardly teetotal.

Mint Sauce

Four pints in one session has actully been considered hazardous/binge drinking for years.

Your recomened 21 units (for men) a week is recommend to be spread out over a week, not one third of it plus drank in one night.

Although so the experts say.

Yahew

irish-stew wrote: »

Four pints in one session has actully been considered hazardous/binge drinking for years.

Your recomened 21 units (for men) a week is recommend to be spread out over a week, not one third of it plus drank in one night.

Although so the experts say.

This 4 pint thing is generally unrelated to the height or weight of the consumer, so it is always a low ball. The real test is blood alcohol levels, which are not measured unless you are DUI, or dead.

Solnskaya

I know an awful lot of lads who have 15-20 pints on a night out. All joking aside, but can we have a new class, like "super-hazardous-grenade-down your-bunker-air-vent" drinking? I feel this new classification is required for the eastern-midlands. We also have to come up with a more extreme class for the west of Ireland, they really know how to drink. So many guilt trips from the EU mammie-Docs, so little time. 4 Pints? Abusing the kids?? Not a hope, after 4 pints, they just get funnier and more likable. You'd need to have an inner cnut just begging to get out for 4 pints to have that effect.

old hippy

Solnskaya wrote: »

I know an awful lot of lads who have 15-20 pints on a night out. All joking aside, but can we have a new class, like "super-hazardous-grenade-down your-bunker-air-vent" drinking? I feel this new classification is required for the eastern-midlands. We also have to come up with a more extreme class for the west of Ireland, they really know how to drink. So many guilt trips from the EU mammie-Docs, so little time. 4 Pints? Abusing the kids?? Not a hope, after 4 pints, they just get funnier and more likable. You'd need to have an inner cnut just begging to get out for 4 pints to have that effect.

The lack of understanding here of alcohol and the myriad of effects it can have on the individual is astounding.

Yahew

old hippy wrote: »

The lack of understanding here of alcohol and the myriad of effects it can have on the individual is astounding.

Says you as a confirmed alcoholic. It seems that Helix was also a very heavy drinker. Most people don't get effected by 4 pints, to any extent. They shouldn't drive. But thats it. And they do get funner. They can work the next day without problem. I detest the lumping of people with problems with the normal use of alcohol.

rambutman

Yahew wrote: »

Says you as a confirmed alcoholic. It seems that Helix was also a very heavy drinker. Most people don't get effected by 4 pints, to any extent. They shouldn't drive. But thats it. And they do get funner. They can work the next day without problem. I detest the lumping of people with problems with the normal use of alcohol.

I think 4 pints (possibly 5) is in fact the magic number - things seem funny, everything is great craic, yer in flying form.............after that things just seem to go downhill.

If only we could call it a night after that..........well me anyway.

I gave up drinking due to navigational issues - sometimes could not find my way home for up to 6/7 days after going on the beer.

old hippy

Yahew wrote: »

Says you as a confirmed alcoholic. It seems that Helix was also a very heavy drinker. Most people don't get effected by 4 pints, to any extent. They shouldn't drive. But thats it. And they do get funner. They can work the next day without problem. I detest the lumping of people with problems with the normal use of alcohol.

I think the concept of what's normal and what's not is open to debate

old hippy

old hippy wrote: »

I think the concept of what's normal and what's not is open to debate

I think anyone with a bit of cop on would say 4 pints is not that much to drink in fairness, sure we will have that much drank or not far off it before the match even kicks off this evening.

old hippy

Carly Pitiful Cellar wrote: »

I think anyone with a bit of cop on would say 4 pints is not that much to drink in fairness, sure we will have that much drank or not far off it before the match even kicks off this evening.

I think the term cop on is also open to debate. Especially on this thread

The King of Moo

Carly Pitiful Cellar wrote: »

I think anyone with a bit of cop on would say 4 pints is not that much to drink in fairness, sure we will have that much drank or not far off it before the match even kicks off this evening.

Anyone with a bit of cop on would say that it's not much to drink for most Irish people, but every individual is different and I know a few people who would be quite drunk after four pints.

And most people from other countries would consider four pints quite a bit to drink in one evening.

Just because it's common for most people in this country to drink that much and more, it doesn't mean that it's a medical fact that four pints is a normal amount and you shouldn't get drunk on that amount.

InTheTrees

Yahew wrote: »

Most people don't get effected by 4 pints, to any extent. They shouldn't drive. But thats it.

"Most" people? Who are these people you're associating with?

Why shouldnt they drive if they're not affected "to any extent"???

Stocking Drinks Whiskey

Well, your basically consuming poison, if we say each piint was 4%, now, my maths ain't great but that should be 16% of 1.8 litres being pure ethanol.

So yeah, you could call it hazardous, especially so if it's done on a regular basis.

No wait, I did that wrong, it's still 4% of volume I think, either way, it's still larger.

Okay, I'm confused now.

Yahew

InTheTrees wrote: »

"Most" people? Who are these people you're associating with?

Why shouldnt they drive if they're not affected "to any extent"???

Lol. There are really dry people on this thread.

I already said I drink about 2-3 pints a week, I live a very quiet life, but my gf is not a drinker.

The unaffected population who are not affected in their general demeanour after 4 pints taken over time are 99% of the rest of the male population at least. They get a slight buzz. They converse more. They are better fun. Little else happens.

Well, your basically consuming poison, if we say each piint was 4%, now, my maths ain't great but that should be 16% of 1.8 litres being pure ethanol.

Yeah, 16% of a pint of pure ethanol, taken over a few hours.

Yahew

The King of Moo wrote: »

Anyone with a bit of cop on would say that it's not much to drink for most Irish people, but every individual is different and I know a few people who would be quite drunk after four pints.

And most people from other countries would consider four pints quite a bit to drink in one evening.

Just because it's common for most people in this country to drink that much and more, it doesn't mean that it's a medical fact that four pints is a normal amount and you shouldn't get drunk on that amount.

Normal and common are synonyms.

stimpson

Stocking Drinks Whiskey wrote: »

Well, your basically consuming poison, if we say each piint was 4%, now, my maths ain't great but that should be 16% of 1.8 litres being pure ethanol.

So yeah, you could call it hazardous, especially so if it's done on a regular basis.

No wait, I did that wrong, it's still 4% of volume I think, either way, it's still larger.

Okay, I'm confused now.

If its such a poison the how do you explain studies showing that moderate drinkers live longer than teetotalers?

old hippy

stimpson wrote: »

If its such a poison the how do you explain studies showing that moderate drinkers live longer than teetotalers?

Is 4 pints a night moderate?