4 pints of beer = "hazardous drinking" now...

Helix

You specifically cited drinking with your mates as what you look forward to. Not going out with your mates, not having a laugh with them; specifically drinking

And drinking 2l of coke a day is going to be every bit as damaging for you cousin. Hello diabetes

Shanotheslayer

Helix wrote: »

You specifically cited drinking with your mates as what you look forward to. Not going out with your mates, not having a laugh with them; specifically drinking

And drinking 2l of coke a day is going to be every bit as damaging for you cousin. Hello diabetes

Yes, I never claimed I don't enjoy drinking with my mates. I do enjoy drinking, my point is that it's socially frowned upon because I drink high amounts when I do drink that makes me an alcoholic?


Yes, my point exactly, it is damaging, but nobody cares for the coke thing, just the alcohol.

The King of Moo

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Yes, I never claimed I don't enjoy drinking with my mates. I do enjoy drinking, my point is that it's socially frowned upon because I drink high amounts when I do drink that makes me an alcoholic?


Yes, my point exactly, it is damaging, but nobody cares for the coke thing, just the alcohol.

That's because the heavy coke-drinker is only harming him/herself, but the heavy alcohol-drinker can cause trouble for lots of other people.

Helix

Where did you get the idea it's socially frowned upon? You live in Ireland right? It's not only accepted but expected, along with the "I'm deadly at drinking" bravado. It's a country of functioning alcoholics, in that very few young Irish people know how to deal with social gatherings without alcohol

Shanotheslayer

The King of Moo wrote: »

That's because the heavy coke-drinker is only harming him/herself, but the heavy alcohol-drinker can cause trouble for lots of other people.

That comes down to knowing your limits and knowing when to stop.

Samba

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

So what is the name of falling all over the place and not knowing what the fúck is going on?

I would of thought it would went in this order : Tipsy,drunk,pissed

Legless is the term you're looking for, it's something I try my best to avoid at all cost. I drink around 25-30 units of alcohol per week between beer and wine, I don't like spirits and they don't like me either apparently.

On some nights four pints would have me drunk but on others I would probably be capable of fooling someone that I was still sober, it really depends on too many variables, but I guess it's hard to calculate all of them and so it's inevitable that the article is going to have to generalise in order to make a point, which still remains valid imo.

Shanotheslayer

Helix wrote: »

Where did you get the idea it's socially frowned upon? You live in Ireland right? It's not only accepted but expected, along with the "I'm deadly at drinking" bravado. It's a country of functioning alcoholics, in that very few young Irish people know how to deal with social gatherings without alcohol

In some peoples eyes it is socially frowned upon. Yes, I live in Dublin

Helix

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

In some peoples eyes it is socially frowned upon. Yes, I live in Dublin

For it to be socially frowned upon I think you need more than a tiny minority to frown upon it

The King of Moo

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

That comes down to knowing your limits and knowing when to stop.

And in Ireland there are many people who don't know when to stop.

Lots of posters in this thread have talked about how they often get extremely drunk.
That doesn't mean that they all start fights or get into accidents etc. when they do so, but when you're very drunk you've little control over yourself and are more likely to cause at least annoyance for others.

Helix

Helix wrote: »

this all comes back to what i said yesterday, irish people havent a breeze what drunk means. paralytic is well, well, well beyond drunk

when it starts affecting your personality and mood in any way, you're drunk. that would be 4 pints for the majority of people

In my opinion drunk is when you start to talk complete nonsense, memory starts getting sketchy etc which happens at the end of the night after a big feed of drink.

Claiming that the slightly more relaxed feeling you get after 4 pints is drunk after which if you suddenly had to go back into work or do something that involved thought or effort you wouldnt have a problem makes no sense whatsoever.

I'm getting a serious thirst with all this talk of drinking, 6 o'clock tomorrow evening is too far away!

Yahew

It's a country of functioning alcoholics, in that very few young Irish people know how to deal with social gatherings without alcohol

thats not the definition of alcoholism. alcoholics drink every day, and can't stop. They go on programs to dry out and can never touch a drink again, when dry. Drinking socially is - outside of the islamic world - normal, and it has been for millennia.

The King of Moo

Carly Pitiful Cellar wrote: »

In my opinion drunk is when you start to talk complete nonsense, memory starts getting sketchy etc which happens at the end of the night after a big feed of drink.

Claiming that the slightly more relaxed feeling you get after 4 pints is drunk after which if you suddenly had to go back into work or do something that involved thought or effort you wouldnt have a problem makes no sense whatsoever.

I'm getting a serious thirst with all this talk of drinking, 6 o'clock tomorrow evening is too far away!

Why don't they let people drive after four pints then?

Helix

Yahew wrote: »

thats not the definition of alcoholism. alcoholics drink every day, and can't stop. They go on programs to dry out and can never touch a drink again, when dry. Drinking socially is - outside of the islamic world - normal, and it has been for millennia.

Alcoholics do NOT need to drink every day. They are people who can't function either in life or in certain situations without alcohol. My oul lad was tellin me when he was in his 20s he couldn't sleep without a half shot of whiskey. It was a routine that turned into a mental addiction. He didn't need to get drunk, he just needed the half shot or he'd be up all night thinking that he hadn't had it.

People addicted to smoking done smoke all the time either. There are plenty of my mates who wouldn't dream of lighting up during the week, but they can't do without when drinking. Again, that's addiction, but it's functional addiction and only in certain situations

To believe that alcoholics are people who need to be drunk all the time and can't physically stop drinking round the clock is horribly wide of the mark

The King of Moo

The King of Moo wrote: »

Why don't they let people drive after four pints then?

Well the limits are not set in number of pints for a start, it wouldnt have been totally impossible for a decent sized man who was used to drinking to scrape under the old limit on 4 pints, dont get me started on the new joke limit.

Helix wrote: »

Alcoholics do NOT need to drink every day. They are people who can't function either in life or in certain situations without alcohol. My oul lad was tellin me when he was in his 20s he couldn't sleep without a half shot of whiskey. It was a routine that turned into a mental addiction. He didn't need to get drunk, he just needed the half shot or he'd be up all night thinking that he hadn't had it.

People addicted to smoking done smoke all the time either. There are plenty of my mates who wouldn't dream of lighting up during the week, but they can't do without when drinking. Again, that's addiction, but it's functional addiction and only in certain situations

To believe that alcoholics are people who need to be drunk all the time and can't physically stop drinking round the clock is horribly wide of the mark

This is just diluting the term alcoholic and making it pretty meaningless. The term alcoholic shoud be reserved for people who are actually alcoholics and whose lives are being seriously effected by it, not using it on a lad who lives a perfectly normal life who likes to get pissed once or twice a week with no effect on his job, family life, relationships etc.

The King of Moo

Carly Pitiful Cellar wrote: »

Well the limits are not set in number of pints for a start, it wouldnt have been totally impossible for a decent sized man who was used to drinking to scrape under the old limit on 4 pints, dont get me started on the new joke limit.

Even so, the vast majority of people would not be wasted on four pints, but would have their judgement noticeably affected. Which is why drink-driving limits err on the side of caution.

And I think that's what's happened with this report too: most people wouldn't be any more likely to cause harm to their kids after four pints, but some would, and it's safer to recommend not having more than four around your kids, instead of saying "well, four for some, but some people would still be grand after ten drinks."

Also, people overestimate their own ability to handle drink, so these estimates are usually quite low as most people would consider they could handle more drink with no problem.

Eric Cartman

Temptamperu wrote: »

Drinking is boring, Crack now on the other hand I could go for four cracks right now...

id prefer 1 heroin , i can only have one but they are very moreish

old hippy

As a functioning alcoholic, I certainly feel the need for a pint each day. I can go without and after a severe night out, I do. It's hard to ascribe behaviour patterns to individuals, tho. We all react differently.

Yahew

Helix wrote: »

To believe that alcoholics are people who need to be drunk all the time and can't physically stop drinking round the clock is horribly wide of the mark

That is the definition. You have pretty much described all drinkers at any level whatsoever, as alcoholics. Anybody who "needs it to function", you said, but then qualified it as someone who has a better time when on alcohol. So although I can often not drink when out ( when driving) , the fact that I have a better time with a few pints, makes me - someone who drinks twice a month, if that - an alcoholic. That's extremist nonsense. A term like alcoholic is meaningless if you apply it to all situations. Social smokers are probably not addicted either, but I never did smoke.

old hippy

Yahew wrote: »

That is the definition. You have pretty much described all drinkers at any level whatsoever, as alcoholics. Anybody who "needs it to function", you said, but then qualified it as someone who has a better time when on alcohol. So although I can often not drink when out ( when driving) , the fact that I have a better time with a few pints, makes me - someone who drinks twice a month, if that - an alcoholic. That's extremist nonsense. A term like alcoholic is meaningless if you apply it to all situations. Social smokers are probably not addicted either, but I never did smoke.

Drop into an AA meeting sometime & you will see various definitions of the term. There is no particular type.

Yahew

old hippy wrote: »

Drop into an AA meeting sometime & you will see various definitions of the term. There is no particular type.

If anybody is turning up because he has 2 pints every so often, except when he drives, I'd be surprised. But its a good networking opportunity, I hear.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

I'd often sit in on a friday or saturday night and drink 4 or 5 cans of beer. If I'm out for pints, be it with the lads or the OH, I'm likely to drink 8-10 pints of the stuff. Sometimes more. I don't do it to get pissed drunk, I do it because I enjoy the taste of the stuff and I enjoy the merry buzz - and it doesn't have a bad effect on me. I don't get sick all over the pub or taxi, I don't start rows with friends or strangers, my only evil is the kebab or burger I may scoff at the end of the night.

It may not be the sagest of investments moneywise, but it doesn't make me socially irresponsible. And if other people enjoy getting drunk, I'm delighted for them, as long as it doesn't turn that person into a vitriolic asshole.

Just my two penneth worth.

barbiegirl

I define an alcoholic as anyone for whom drinking alcohol has a negative impact on their lives or the lives of those around them, and when faced with this prospect cannot stop.

A night out with friends brings many good things to people, it social, they get to talk about problems, have fun, loosen up and to be themselves, not just mammy and daddy. If drinks are thrown into that mix and it doesn't adversely affect the night then it is not a problem.

Now if when they come home they are too blathered or sleep too deep to help or hear a child in trouble, or the hangover the following day is affecting the kids by sniping at them, and it's a regular happening then maybe it's time to look at cutting down, or maybe one only drinking and taking it in turns to drive, get up the next morning, deal with the kids etc. That's responsible parenting, not a sign that either one is an alcoholic.

4 drinks on a night out is a quiet night not a hazardous night, but then I'm not an alcoholic by my definition above.

J_E

HellFireClub wrote: »

Ms Shortall said the time is right for a change to the way Irish people drink, both culturally and legally.

She's got some task ahead of her. Ireland has an unhealthy fascination with alcohol and it's deep-rooted. Going to take more than a price bar to change this "ah sure it's grand" attitude. It's kind of worrying how many people wouldn't even class alcohol as a drug as much as anything else.

old hippy

Yahew wrote: »

If anybody is turning up because he has 2 pints every so often, except when he drives, I'd be surprised. But its a good networking opportunity, I hear.

Sorry, don't follow? Networking opportunity?

McTigs

Helix wrote: »

People addicted to smoking done smoke all the time either. There are plenty of my mates who wouldn't dream of lighting up during the week, but they can't do without when drinking. Again, that's addiction, but it's functional addiction and only in certain situations

To believe that alcoholics are people who need to be drunk all the time and can't physically stop drinking round the clock is horribly wide of the mark

Sorry but that is just plain wrong. To believe people who enjoy a few pints and a few fags at the weekend are maintaining addictions is horribly wide of the mark.

Maybe they just enjoy and few pints and enjoy a few fags at the weekend and why shouldn't they. They are very enjoyable.

McTigs

old hippy wrote: »

Sorry, don't follow? Networking opportunity?

humour.

you wouldn't get it

Snakeblood

old hippy wrote: »

Sorry, don't follow? Networking opportunity?

I don't agree, but apparently AA in the states, particularly in hollywood, a lot of movie deals get done.

rambutman

old hippy wrote: »

Drop into an AA meeting sometime & you will see various definitions of the term. There is no particular type.

That could be down to the fact that one of the only alcohol/drink problem related groups is AA - i.e. one size fits all. A large majority of people who attend AA are people who have drink problems (ie. their drinking caused them problems) or binge drinkers and not actual alcoholics (ie. someone with an alcohol addiction), but have nowhere else to go. There's no problem drinkers (PDA), binge drinkers (BDA), groups etc.............even NA groups can be hard to find and people with drug problems can end up attending AA groups because they have nowhere else to go.

busyliving

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I'm calling Shanegans.

Show me someone who isn't an alcoholic who is not pissed after 8 units of Alcohol.

EDIT- A Pint is 2 Units, just so ya know

When I was in college, I'd often go to the local, have between 6 to 8 pints on Monday and walk home, a little tipsy but not drunk, well able to hold a conversation with the lads(one of which doesn't drink) and be up at 8 the next morning not a big deal

Yahew

old hippy wrote: »

Sorry, don't follow? Networking opportunity?

old joke about AA in Los Angeles. But whatever AA accepts as alcoholic, nobody on 4 pints a month is one.