The End of JoePa in Penn State

tallaghtoutlaws

Don't know if any of you guys have been following the latest College Ball news but Joe Paterno's Ex long serving Assistant Coach Jerry Sandusky has been accused of Child Abuse on 8 accounts. It is thought that Paterno and a few others were involved in the cover up of some of these allegations in the past. And now it seems Penn State will have no choice but to offload Paterno who has been a Coach in Penn State since 1950, 45 of those as Head Coach.

All the links here:

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/penn-state-coach-abuse-scandal-14891354

http://abcnews.go.com/US/penn-state-scandal-paterno-speak-tomorrow/story?id=14894985#.TrlosXJSmBI

http://abcnews.go.com/US/joe-paterno-penn-state-president-cancel-appearances/story?id=14905312#.TrlopnJSmBI

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7207730/penn-state-nittany-lions-call-joe-paterno-news-conference

This is sad for two different reasons. JoePa is/was one of the greatest college football coaches of all time and he will truly missed. But it will also be sad to hear if it is true that he helped cover up this mess in any way

Spongey1975

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

This is sad for two different reasons. JoePa is/was one of the greatest college football coaches of all time and he will truly missed. But it will also be sad to hear if it is true that he helped cover up this mess in any way

Havent seen much about this but I dont think he helped cover it up (maybe his silence on the matter at the time will be construed as helping cover it up). He was only required to report it to his supervisor and thats what he did. The men further up the ladder didnt report it to police and they are the ones who've been arrested now. However there will be a lot of pressure for him to resign from non football groups

tallaghtoutlaws

Spongey1975 wrote: »

Havent seen much about this but I dont think he helped cover it up (maybe his silence on the matter at the time will be construed as helping cover it up). He was only required to report it to his supervisor and thats what he did. The men further up the ladder didnt report it to police and they are the ones who've been arrested now. However there will be a lot of pressure for him to resign from non football groups

Well thats exactly it though. His silence will be seen as part of the cover up. Although by law he did nothing wrong as he reported it to his supervisor etc etc most wont see that as doing enough. Many will ask why didn't he report it if his bosses failed to do so ye know. The moral aspect will totally come into to play here. It also doesnt help Paterno that Sandusky was a very good friend of his.

Its sad though over all. Either way Football loses a guy who has won more games than any other coach in college football.

Peyton Manning

Hope Joe isn't involved.

I always figured him as the type who'd give you a werthers original and ruffle your hair while recalling the price of things "back in his day".

Clearly, covering up child sex abuse does not fit into this image I have of him.

Chucky the tree

He should resign. While legally he might not have done anything wrong I think what he did morally is completely unacceptable.

Dohnny Jepp

Agree with chucky here. He may not have legally been required to do anymore than he did. But ethically and morally and every other ally, he really let himself down. When it comes to the protection of kids everyone should be willing to help and do what's neccesary

padraig_f

Good piece on Grantland today about it: Growing Up Penn State

frostie500

Chucky the tree wrote: »

He should resign. While legally he might not have done anything wrong I think what he did morally is completely unacceptable.

Yeah its tough not to agree with you Chucky. As great a coach as Joe Pa is he has to go for this. Its sad that one of the greatest coaches in history will no longer be in the game but as you say morally it is unacceptable.

Joe will surely say that he brought the issue to the AD, which he did, and that he did his part as coach of the school and if the board decided not to take the matter any further than who was he to do to take action but now that everything has come to light Penn State will have no option but to end this era

Peyton Manning

He's retiring at the end of the season. Sad to see it all end like this and how quickly 61 years can come crashing down.

fisgon

Been following some of the American media coverage on this. The guy Sandusky was first accused of molestation in 1999, and was caught red handed in 2002, I think. People knew about these events, including Paterno. Sandusky then ran youth camps. Imagine, they let him run youth camps, and no-one raised any objections, including Paterno.

It has echoes of all the stuff that went on here with the church, cover up, people not going to the police. There's enough blame to go around, but Paterno definitely shares responsibiliy for Sandusky being given free rein. Besides, how much actual coaching was he doing now, the guy is 85 ffs, apparently he can't even hear very well any more.

Dodge

Typical head in the stand stuff form the NCAA too. Will ban a kid for selling his jersey or swapping it for a tattoo

But cover up a paedophile and a) say nothing and b) allow him to do what he wants

steelcityblues

Cam Newton wrote: »

Hope Joe isn't involved.

I always figured him as the type who'd give you a werthers original and ruffle your hair while recalling the price of things "back in his day".

Clearly, covering up child sex abuse does not fit into this image I have of him.

You don't understand the mentality of most Catholics of his generation.

Peyton Manning

steelcityblues wrote: »

You don't understand the mentality of most Catholics of his generation.

I was joking Buzz Killington

eagle eye

Cam Newton wrote: »

I was joking Buzz Killington

It certainly didn't come across as a 'joke'. Wheres the smiley to give us a clue?

Dohnny Jepp

eagle eye wrote: »

It certainly didn't come across as a 'joke'. Wheres the smiley to give us a clue?

There is a smiley there! But only us cool kids can see it :P

LuckyLloyd

Anyone interested in this, needs to read the Grand Jury Report:

http://i.usatoday.net/sports/college/football/2011-11-05-sandusky-grand-jury.pdf

PeakOutput

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

This is sad for two different reasons. JoePa is/was one of the greatest college football coaches of all time and he will truly missed. But it will also be sad to hear if it is true that he helped cover up this mess in any way

Emm sorry but its sad for one major reason that you forgot about and that is that at least one boy was RAPED and 8 others abused over the course of at least ten years when adults knew what was going on and covered it up. if this was a respected priest in the community you wouldn't be giving him as much leeway.

For what its worth it sounds like joe wants to talk to the press and is being stopped by the university so far. To me this suggests that he has something to say that may explain his role in it so maybe he isn't as much at fault as some of the others but its hard to get away from the facts here and they are

one of the staff walked into the showers ten years ago and witnessed this person raping a ten year old

that person left without stopping the rape and told his father and then they both went to joe and told him

thats what we know so far besides that nothing was done to the rapist at the time or since then.

another fact is this person was in charge of bringing kids to campus for some sor tof outreach programme and he was witnessed bringing kids to the college teams training by the people who knew about the rape at least once

eagle eye

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Anyone interested in this, needs to read the Grand Jury Report:

http://i.usatoday.net/sports/college/football/2011-11-05-sandusky-grand-jury.pdf

Is there something about Paterno in it? Reason I ask is reading something like that is horrifying and I'd prefer not to.

eagle eye

PeakOutput wrote: »

Emm sorry but its sad for one major reason that you forgot about and that is that at least one boy was RAPED and 8 others abused over the course of at least ten years when adults knew what was going on and covered it up. if this was a respected priest in the community you wouldn't be giving him as much leeway.

For what its worth it sounds like joe wants to talk to the press and is being stopped by the university so far. To me this suggests that he has something to say that may explain his role in it so maybe he isn't as much at fault as some of the others but its hard to get away from the facts here and they are

one of the staff walked into the showers ten years ago and witnessed this person raping a ten year old

that person left without stopping the rape and told his father and then they both went to joe and told him

thats what we know so far besides that nothing was done to the rapist at the time or since then.

another fact is this person was in charge of bringing kids to campus for some sor tof outreach programme and he was witnessed bringing kids to the college teams training by the people who knew about the rape at least once

Welcome to the forum, is this your first post on this forum? Are you interested in football?

eagle eye

Paterno just got fired. Breaking news right now.

PeakOutput

eagle eye wrote: »

Welcome to the forum, is this your first post on this forum? Are you interested in football?

Thanks. No. Yes.

Dodge

PeakOutput wrote: »

one of the staff walked into the showers ten years ago and witnessed this person raping a ten year old

that person left without stopping the rape and told his father and then they both went to joe and told him

This guy still has a job, unbelievably. Now I realise its hard for graduate assistants at US colleges, and he didn't want to 'wreck' the chance of a lifetime

But how could you watch a 10 year old be sodomised and not attempt to stop it?

Thankfully Penn State at least did the right thing and sack the people who made the decision to cover it up, including paterno

tallaghtoutlaws

PeakOutput wrote: »

Emm sorry but its sad for one major reason that you forgot about and that is that at least one boy was RAPED and 8 others abused over the course of at least ten years when adults knew what was going on and covered it up. if this was a respected priest in the community you wouldn't be giving him as much leeway.

Where did I say that the rape and abuse wasn't sad? When I posted this thread only more of how involved Paterno was, was only coming out. Not only that I was only talking about Joe Paterno and was not going to go into the abuse stuff and what Sandsuky did or didn't do.

As for the Priest comments? Do you know me? No you don't so how do you know what my feelings are on any of this subject? :rolleyes:

LuckyLloyd

eagle eye wrote: »

Is there something about Paterno in it? Reason I ask is reading something like that is horrifying and I'd prefer not to.

Bottom half of page 6 through to page 12.

PeakOutput

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Where did I say that the rape and abuse wasn't sad?

I said you forgot to mention it not that you didnt think it. It is the most important part of the story and i think that paterno is getting far too much support because he has had such a great legacy. I dont think his legacy is ruined entirely or even mostly and with a decent explanation it could be repaired a lot I believe but I think that its awfull to have people jumping to his defence and showing support to him when we dont even know the identity of the boy who was raped in the shower. were is the support for the abused and their families. Were is the apology for how the situation was handled. once these things are done then it will be time for judging how his legacy has been affected

As for the Priest comments? Do you know me? No you don't so how do you know what my feelings are on any of this subject? :rolleyes:

Firstly I was using 'you' in the royal/plural sense, as this is a discussion forum and not a personal chat room.

secondly I know your feelings on it or at least some of them because you (singular this time) posted them in your very first post

This is sad for two different reasons. JoePa is/was one of the greatest college football coaches of all time and he will truly missed. But it will also be sad to hear if it is true that he helped cover up this mess in any way

tallaghtoutlaws

PeakOutput wrote: »

I said you forgot to mention it not that you didnt think it. It is the most important part of the story and i think that paterno is getting far too much support because he has had such a great legacy. I dont think his legacy is ruined entirely or even mostly and with a decent explanation it could be repaired a lot I believe but I think that its awfull to have people jumping to his defence and showing support to him when we dont even know the identity of the boy who was raped in the shower. were is the support for the abused and their families. Were is the apology for how the situation was handled. once these things are done then it will be time for judging how his legacy has been affected

Joe Paterno is morally guilty for not reporting the incident to the Authorities. None of us can comment on his frame of mind and why he didn't think it necessary to report it to the authorities and he thought reporting it to his supervisors was enough. I am for one am not about to throw a guy under a bus without until the full story comes out and Im talking both sides.

And when I said its sad that he is involved in the cover up I mean its sad in the sense that it goes against the way I see Joe Paterno as an individual and how my respect for him will probably go to sh1te if more and more evidence comes out making him look like a complete scumbag about the whole thing. If it does that is.

secondly I know your feelings on it or at least some of them because you (singular this time) posted them in your very first post

They were my feelings expressed about Joe Paterno not about Child abuse or anything along them lines.

eagle eye

All I seen when reading that was that he reported it to senior college officials. Nothing wrong witn that. I can understand him not going to the police. Its very possible that he was listening to a long time good friend who was denying that anything had happened. What would you do in that situation? Would you report it to the police? I think I'd have done what he did, if I even had an inkling of doubt about whether he did it or not, and reported it to senior management in the college.

Dodge

eagle eye wrote: »

All I seen when reading that was that he reported it to senior college officials. Nothing wrong witn that. I can understand him not going to the police. Its very possible that he was listening to a long time good friend who was denying that anything had happened. What would you do in that situation? Would you report it to the police? I think I'd have done what he did, if I even had an inkling of doubt about whether he did it or not, and reported it to senior management in the college.

I'd have at least asked "hey, remember the other day when I reported that Sandursky was seen raping a ten year old? what happened with that?". I'd have asked did they talk to McQueary. I'd have asked did they try and attempt to identify the kid. When they answered no to both of these*, I'd have had a few questions

And when they told me that they had instructed Sandursky not to bring any more kids into the shower room, I'd have had a few other follow up questions too...

Then I might've got a gun and shot Sandursky in the balls

--

*they'd have told me that they haven't spoken to mcQueary as thats what they told the Grand Jury. They've been indicted on perjury charges for this...

vinny chase

I'd always had huge respect for JoePa, but his position on this would seem to be absolutely untenable.

I, and I think almost anyone who has ever supported him, would absolutely welcome him to come forward with any comments clarifying his stance and position on this, but it would seem from the outset that it is very difficult to explain your way out of this.

Granted, he did the standard defined thing and brought it to people above him, but morally, that's nowhere near enough.

PeakOutput

eagle eye wrote: »

All I seen when reading that was that he reported it to senior college officials. Nothing wrong witn that. I can understand him not going to the police. Its very possible that he was listening to a long time good friend who was denying that anything had happened.

There was an eye witness and there were questions about his behaviour with children before

What would you do in that situation? Would you report it to the police? I think I'd have done what he did, if I even had an inkling of doubt about whether he did it or not, and reported it to senior management in the college.

The fact that you put the welfare of an adult, friend or not, over the welfare of even one child not to mention the potentially hundreds or thousands that he was exposed to over the last 10 years is extremely worrying.

personally I would have done what he did whilst insisting that it be rigorously investigated, I would have tried to personally ensure that the child in question was helped in anyway possible and if I didnt think it was being dealt with satisfactorily or if I thought there was the slightest hint of a cover up (ie the police not immediately notified once there is any sort of evidence of wrongdoing or inappropriate behaviour) I would personally report it to the local police.

Dodge

It should be noted that the 2002 incident was the second time Sandursky was reported for stuff like this. In the 1998 incident when asked by the mother if he had touched her son, he replied "I don't know... maybe". Police officials listened to this conversation

He was investigated by the University and the police. There's absolutely no way Paterno wasn't aware of it.

As an aside, the investigating officer went missing shortly after the decision not to bring it to trial, and his PC was found washed up several months later...