Wiring questions - stove / circ pump etc

SC024

Hi,

I appreciate it if anyone can take the time to look at this & hopefully point out if I'm wrong & maybe point me in the right direction

I've attached a rough MS Paint drawing of what i plan to do @ home here. I'm confident enough to do it myself. I've a few questions though

1. How do I wire the pipe stat to turn on pump 2, open valve 2 whilst also killing power to the existing oil boiler & its circ pump. Idealt I would like to leave the boiler clock powered up ? I take it some kind of contactor or relay? Could I get this from Kellihers or someone & if so what type am I looking for?

Finally If someone could do a wiring diagram i'd really appreciate it.

Thanks,

Sc024

Attachment didn't stick - Sorry about that

M cebee

cant see your drawing but there was a question a while back on homezone which was similar

evosteo

no drawing:o

Bruthal

What you can do is get the pipe stat on the stove to switch on a relay like you said. One n/c contact on the relay can open to stop the oil fired boiler by putting it in the boilers control loop.

A second relay n/o contact can be used to bring on pump no 2. Or pump no 2 can be directly switched by the stove pipe stat.

SC024

Robbie,

Thanks for your reply.

What kind of relay do I need & how would I go about wiring it up ?

Carlow52

I used an 11 pin relay and the 11 pins are made up as follows

2 pins for feed and return to close the relay

3 at the front are 'closed' with 3 at the bottom/ back when no power to relay

3 at front are closed with 3 at the top/ back when power to relay

I used 11 as I need to kill the live and the return for my circuits
a 8 pin may work for you. [ 2/2/2/2 instead of 2/3/3/3 as above]

The ones I have have to be mounted like an mcb on a rail.

ps am not a sparks so terminology may be wrong:)

paddymick

This was done with windows paint not a CAD program:o But I think its on line with what you are looking for

Bruthal

Probably wont be too far off that, but i think it will be a bit tricky for a diy`r probably.

As you suggest in the drawing paddymick, there are a few unknowns that only someone looking at the setup could see properly.

Bruthal

SC024 wrote: »

Robbie,

Thanks for your reply.

What kind of relay do I need & how would I go about wiring it up ?

A relay with a 230v coil is the main thing, they are usually DPDT (double pole double throw). So you can see in paddymick`s drawing the NC relay contact is used to disable the oil boiler when the relay is energized by the stove pipe stat, which also brings on valve no 2 to open it, and also powers the stove pump.

Exactly how the relay contact will disable the oil boiler depends on how its controls are wired.

Is the stove going to be heating the rads when its running? If so, then the second relay between the timeclock and the room stats would not be used.

paddymick

Its just one of those jobs thats very hard to describe to someone how to do with out actually being there to see the plumbing setup etc.Its a shame you are not a bit closer to me i would have had a look at it for you, heatings systems is one of those jobs that i actually enjoy doing,A little bit of thinking involved:D

Bruthal

paddymick wrote: »

Its just one of those jobs thats very hard to describe to someone how to do with out actually being there to see the plumbing setup etc.Its a shame you are not a bit closer to me i would have had a look at it for you, heatings systems is one of those jobs that i actually enjoy doing,A little bit of thinking involved:D

I was glad to see you had a drawing up when i got home:D.

They are simple enough when your at the location looking at them.

paddymick

robbie7730 wrote: »

I was glad to see you had a drawing up when i got home:D.

I noticed that I actually forgot a couple of wires in the drawing so I was waiting for some eagle eye to come on and tell me:p

Bruthal

Whats missing, ones at valves? Seems the majority is there anyway. Anyway, its hard to do it up because there are some unknowns.

paddymick

robbie7730 wrote: »

Whats missing, ones at valves? Seems the majority is there anyway. Anyway, its hard to do it up because there are some unknowns.

Thats the ones!! Yep its a toughy alright...

Bruthal

paddymick wrote: »

Thats the ones!! Yep its a toughy alright...

Ye cant just link from the valve feeds (from room stats) to the valve aux switches though. That wouldnt work properly. It would have to be from the time clock supply for example, and loop to both aux switches to supply them.

Bruthal

If the boiler was the type with the removable link in its control panel, the zone valve aux switches would just be paralleled and wired in place of the link. The firebird oil boiler in this case is probably the setup that would use your diagram alright though.

The fact the stove is a 16kw stove would suggest the second relay between the time clock and the room stats wont be needed.

paddymick

robbie7730 wrote: »

Ye cant just link from the valve feeds (from room stats) to the valve aux switches though. That wouldnt work properly. It would have to be from the time clock supply for example, and loop to both aux switches to supply them.

+1
Thats right..Bit of a differant story on some gas boilers but thats a whole differant thread.

Bruthal

paddymick wrote: »

+1
Thats right..Bit of a differant story on some gas boilers but thats a whole differant thread.

Not certain your thinking of the same thing, but you probably are, but if you do link in your drawing from the valve motor feeds to the aux switches, if both room stats are closed, and one opens then, the valve who`s stat opened, will hold itself energized.

paddymick

robbie7730 wrote: »

if you do link in your drawing from the valve motor feeds to the aux switches, if both room stats are closed, and one opens then, the valve who`s stat opened, will hold itself energized.

Thay are added now to the drawing;)

Bruthal

Yes, perfectly done:).

SC024

Thanks for all the replies lads

had a look at your drawing. There's no room stats anywhere the 2 zone valves are controlled manually by switches, There is a time clock built into the fire bird boiler is all. Ideally I'm hoping to keep this set up the third zone & the hot water cylinder will act as heat sinks when the stove is lit.
This should simplify wiring it ?

Thanks again

Sc024

Bruthal

Again it depends how the oil boiler is controlled. If the timer brings it on, but all zone valves are switched off, does it fire up anyway?

Its likely the n/c relay contact in paddymick`s drawing which controls the boiler would have to be put into the timer out wire in the boiler control panel.

So the stove pipe stat closes to switch on the relay, and pump 2, and valve 2, and thats about it probably.

Its simple enough for a person experienced in it to do it, but not as easy to explain on here without exact wiring setup. But if its just the boilers own timer bringing it on, and the existing zone valve(s) are just manually operated, then the method in the above paragraph will work.

SC024

Yeh if the timer on the boiler comes on it makes difference what valves or on. This is why there's one zone always open+ the cylinder



UOTE=robbie7730;75424082]Again it depends how the oil boiler is controlled. If the timer brings it on, but all zone valves are switched off, does it fire up anyway?

Its likely the n/c relay contact in paddymick`s drawing which controls the boiler would have to be put into the timer out wire in the boiler control panel.

So the stove pipe stat closes to switch on the relay, and pump 2, and valve 2, and thats about it probably.

Its simple enough for a person experienced in it to do it, but not as easy to explain on here without exact wiring setup. But if its just the boilers own timer bringing it on, and the existing zone valve(s) are just manually operated, then the method in the above paragraph will work.[/QUOTE]

Bruthal

SC024 wrote: »

Yeh if the timer on the boiler comes on it makes difference what valves or on. This is why there's one zone always open+ the cylinder

Stove pipe stat bringing on relay, the valve, and pump will do the job so. And the n/c (normally closed) relay contact would be put into the wire coming out of timer on existing boiler.

So when pipe stat operates on stove, it switches on the pump, relay and valve, and the relay contact will open, disconnecting the oil boilers timer from the boiler, so stopping it.

paddymick

SC024 wrote: »

Yeh if the timer on the boiler comes on it makes difference what valves or on. This is why there's one zone always open+ the cylinder

I was curious as to why you had an open rad zone in your drawing but that answers that.

In an ideal world its better to have all zones(HW included)controled by a valve which in turn when activated will bring on the boiler that way the boiler can never come on unless it has somewhere to pump the water and means you only need the zone that you require bring on the boiler.For instance say you wanted to heat your hot water only like during the summer then you wouldnt have to heat the open rad circuit aswell

Bruthal

The HW is the best one to not have one though, if one is to be left open.

If all 3 zones have valves, a bypass is needed for pump over run, if there is any.