Big black cat......

elgriff

We had a good talk about this around 6 months ago for those interested:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056205333

vixdname

I know what ye mean, I've seen an array of pussys over the years and I've got to admit, the big black hairy ones are quite frightening indeed ...

fallowbuck

vixdname wrote: »

I know what ye mean, I've seen an array of pussys over the years and I've got to admit, the big black hairy ones are quite frightening indeed ...

Not if ya no how to handle them, it takes the bigger calibre to really do the job:D But on a serious note one would have been shot by now or the hounds on the hunt would have flushed em at least. I think these guys are on acid.:rolleyes:

Tackleberrywho

vixdname wrote: »

I know what ye mean, I've seen an array of pussys over the years and I've got to admit, the big black hairy ones are quite frightening indeed ...

True, I don't like hairy Pussy's
Especially Big ones

Tackleberrywho

fallowbuck wrote: »

Not if ya no how to handle them, it takes the bigger calibre to really do the job:D But on a serious note one would have been shot by now or the hounds on the hunt would have flushed em at least. I think these guys are on acid.:rolleyes:

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story!

steddyeddy

E. Fudd wrote: »

Was out for a stalk this morning and got talking to the farmer when I came back down off the hill
Now I would consider this lad to be of sound mind and not a bullsh1tter.
He tells me that there's a big black cat taking sheep from the farm behind the wood which borders his farm. 5 sheep taken in the past two weeks and a couple "bitten". Apparantly it has been seen by two local farmers who describe it as being "like a panther".
Now I'm a bit of a pessimist and find it hard to believe, but I said I'd put it out there and see has anybody else heard any reports of a big black pussy on the prowl in the Saggart area???

Sorry for the late entry into this thread just saw this. I am a biologist by education and worked in conservaion in africa, america ect. I worked in an area packed full of big cats but I rarely saw them. A lot of them are nocturnal or crepuscular (hunting/active at dawn or dusk) they know how to stay hidden. I have no evidence regarding big cat sightings apart from eye witness accounts but I have no reason to doubt a big cat could exist here.

In america and africa hunters are an excellent source of wildlife information and I have several in both america and africa who have claimed to see creatures not supposed to exist. I assume most of you guys are hunters you have seen more wildlife than most and be able to distinguish between various species. If one of you came to me (as has happened before) and stated that they have saw a creature that didnt exist I would have a hard time disputing your account.

Im educated but the next bit is going to make me seem a bit ridiculous I met a hunter in oregon state who regularly hunts black bear, elk ect. He told me matter of factly that one night he saw a creature that wasnt a bear, wasnt a man didnt get down on all fours or nothing, it was what it was.

The reason im posting is to say that countless hunters have reported things that dont quite fit in ireland. I wouldnt discount what they say on the face of things.

Ps if anyones interested in reports made by the hunting community or if you have any reports yourselves of anything strange let me know!

Spunk84

I believe that if ever there one that was caught or found it will be a pet that has been released. I've hunted in California where they have mountain lions, I've seen a few in the field and one dead on the road. As far as Ireland or the UK having them I'm very doubtful, even the mountain lions in the states crop up in urban areas, California is a huge state compared to Ireland and its not in common for one to dander into town to a local park or an edge of an estate. A few years ago one was shot in Oakland sitting in a tree next to a primary school.

steddyeddy

Thanks for all the Pms guys Ill get back to yous when I have a spare day off!

garv123

We're safe. the latest update is they only eat muntjac.

Grizzly 45

Thing that gets me is the total lack of info on all these big cats.There is a rash of stories about them[usually on a slow media day or silly season] and poof! Its gone again!!Farmers claim their live stock are killed by big cats..Do we not have a few zooologists who could go and have a look at these kills.After all,each big cat has a certain method of killing its prey.EG lions strike on the hind quaters and then suffocate the animal by crunching the windpipe[Nat Geographic channel is a wonderful invention!:D].So surely it isnt that hard a job to ID what type of cat it might be??
Also,where are the bones of eaten prey?The Dept of Ag suposedly found some big cat poo a few years ago..They are still "looking into it":pac:As no report has ever been issued on it.

Until somone shoots one,its a hard one to belive.

Im educated but the next bit is going to make me seem a bit ridiculous I met a hunter in oregon state who regularly hunts black bear, elk ect. He told me matter of factly that one night he saw a creature that wasnt a bear, wasnt a man didnt get down on all fours or nothing, it was what it was.

So he saw Big Foot???:cool::D

steddyeddy

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Thing that gets me is the total lack of info on all these big cats.There is a rash of stories about them[usually on a slow media day or silly season] and poof! Its gone again!!Farmers claim their live stock are killed by big cats..Do we not have a few zooologists who could go and have a look at these kills.After all,each big cat has a certain method of killing its prey.EG lions strike on the hind quaters and then suffocate the animal by crunching the windpipe[Nat Geographic channel is a wonderful invention!:D].So surely it isnt that hard a job to ID what type of cat it might be??
Also,where are the bones of eaten prey?The Dept of Ag suposedly found some big cat poo a few years ago..They are still "looking into it":pac:As no report has ever been issued on it.

Until somone shoots one,its a hard one to belive.

Well then you should have no problem believing it now. Proof has been here for some time of british big cats.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/norfolk/4830320.stm

In 1991 a eurasian was shot after killing 15 sheep. The farmer shot it while it was chasing his gun dog. Seeing as big cats are confirmed in britian I see no reason why they cant exist here.

So he saw Big Foot???:cool::D

Hunters were disbelieved about the mountain gorilla, the bonobo, and bears in certain parts of the united states. They turned out to be right. This hunter is an excellent observer of wildlife I see no reason to disbeleive him.

steddyeddy

spikealmighty wrote: »

My home place is Kilanerin, North Wexford , pretty much bordering wicklow and a lot of woods, so we often see the likes of deer.

3/4 years ago during the summer around 9ish I was coming back from a walk through the fields when as i was approaching the gate when I heard something, I looked up to see a large black cat, it froze and looked at me for a couple of seconds before it jumped back the otherside of the ditch and ran off. It was definately a large panther type cat not a wildcat/feral. it was big with large thick paws, tail and short glossy fur.
Fecking freaked me out!

This summer while my parents were out for a walk in the woods in Kilanerin my mam saw it cross a path a bit a head of them, freaked her out too!!

Anyone else any expereience of large black cat north wex/ wicklow?

A hunter in kilcoole county wicklow (anyone from anywhere near the area probraly knows him) saw a black cat near the the big forested area between kilmaconouge and newtown mt kennedy.

Grizzly 45

[

QUOTE=steddyeddy;75601408]Well then you should have no problem believing it now. Proof has been here for some time of british big cats.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/norfolk/4830320.stm

In 1991 a eurasian was shot after killing 15 sheep. The farmer shot it while it was chasing his gun dog. Seeing as big cats are confirmed in britian I see no reason why they cant exist here.

We are in IRELAND not the UK mainland...Big difference!:rolleyes:
Just bcause it happens or is in England does NOT mean it is automatically over here.

A Lynx???Not exactly a "big black cat" now is it???
The things seen around here,taking into account that on exxageration of the tale ,we are hearing tales of things the sizes of tigers.:eek:

A lynx or somthing that size is quiet possible here,and with the lax laws on owning exotic pets all the more so.

But somthing like a Mountain lion upwards I'd have very grave doubts about for the following reasons..

How they manage to be seen in various different locations around Ireland [usually in the Summer months if you want to research the newspapers online] that are geographically appx 200 miles apart at any given sighting??

Ireland isnt densely forested countyside,we are mostly open pastureland with isolated forestry clumps or willow bogs for cover.Yet you can be assured it is traversed somtime within a 31 day period by somone.

How they stay so well hidden that there is not one verifiable paw print or a plaster cast of one in the locations of the sightings?

What are they eating in Winter,when most stock is off the land,and is accounted for almost on a daily basis??Possibly they could live off deer,but then again where are the carcass remains??

Ireland is too small for some kind of large predator not to go unnoticed.

Hunters were disbelieved about the mountaingorilla, the bonobo, and bears in certain parts of the united states. They turned out to be right. This hunter is an excellent observer of wildlife I see no reason to disbeleive him.

Hey!!! I'm not disbeliving him...That is exactly what it sounds like he saw,and its in the same state too ...If it looks like a duck,quacks like a duck...:rolleyes:

Deerspotter

I agree with Griz, this topic gets beaten to death too often on this thread.
As a man who spends a HUGE amount of time out in the countryside, all over the country, until I see a boar, a munty, a lion, a tiger or a bear, I will assume any stories about sighting are bullsh!t.
The main point is; Ireland is TOO small for any animal like a boar, a munty or a BIG BLACK CAT to live without being noticed.
You may as well believe in the Loch Ness Monster if you're a believer in these sorts of fairy-tales... FFS!

steddyeddy

Deerspotter wrote: »

I agree with Griz, this topic gets beaten to death too often on this thread.
As a man who spends a HUGE amount of time out in the countryside, all over the country, until I see a boar, a munty, a lion, a tiger or a bear, I will assume any stories about sighting are bullsh!t.
The main point is; Ireland is TOO small for any animal like a boar, a munty or a BIG BLACK CAT to live without being noticed.
You may as well believe in the Loch Ness Monster if you're a believer in these sorts of fairy-tales... FFS!

There is wild boar in ireland ask the irish wildlife trust.

Grizzly 45

We know that Teddy...Mostly escapees from exotic pet holdings,or liberation animals or domestics gone feral.However they have been hunted down pretty quickly and dispatched of within appx 2years of them going wild.

snipeface

garv123 wrote: »

We're safe. the latest update is they only eat muntjac.

Aw shute, so that's where all the Muntjac have gone in Wicklow.

Good job i had the last one i shot stuffed;)

steddyeddy

Right Grizzly apologies for the delay a hard days studying will do that to you.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

We are in IRELAND not the UK mainland...Big difference!:rolleyes:
Just bcause it happens or is in England does NOT mean it is automatically over here.

I take it by the face beside the statement that you'r joking. Ireland and Britian share a biome. That is the Temperate Deciduous Forest biome. A biome shares similar flora and fauna as does Ireland and england big difference as a description does not apply to an area with similar geography in many cases, similar climate and similar flora and fauna.

A Lynx???Not exactly a "big black cat" now is it???
The things seen around here,taking into account that on exxageration of the tale ,we are hearing tales of things the sizes of tigers.:eek:

Im personally not hearing that but yes military, police and civilians have reported big black cats.

A lynx or somthing that size is quiet possible here,and with the lax laws on owning exotic pets all the more so.

A small black leopard could easily remain elusive here imo as they are quite stealthy and agile as well as the fact that leopards are nocturnal. You simply wouldnt see them during the day. They are nowhere near the size of tigers in fact their the smallest member of the genus Panthera.

But somthing like a Mountain lion upwards I'd have very grave doubts about for the following reasons..

So would I but then again cougars can max out at 100kg and leopards max out at 90.

How they manage to be seen in various different locations around Ireland [usually in the Summer months if you want to research the newspapers online] that are geographically appx 200 miles apart at any given sighting??

Reasearch indicates leopards home ranges can be up to 300km^2 so again not a problem and there could be more than one.

Ireland isnt densely forested countyside,we are mostly open pastureland with isolated forestry clumps or willow bogs for cover.Yet you can be assured it is traversed somtime within a 31 day period by somone.

True but big cats could easily smell people from miles away. Worked in an area with plenty of them not a problem for me.

How they stay so well hidden that there is not one verifiable paw print or a plaster cast of one in the locations of the sightings?

Again leopards in particular are extremely stealthy its not like an animal most irish people would have dealt with.

What are they eating in Winter,when most stock is off the land,and is accounted for almost on a daily basis??Possibly they could live off deer,but then again where are the carcass remains??

Leopards are extremely versatile and even eat dung beetles in the wild they will eat anything from rodents to crocs.

Ireland is too small for some kind of large predator not to go unnoticed.

Predators have been found in areas a lot smaller than Ireland!

Hey!!! I'm not disbeliving him...That is exactly what it sounds like he saw,and its in the same state too ...If it looks like a duck,quacks like a duck...:rolleyes:

Listen man not being funny but im a scientist I think I can understand something more complex than ":rolleyes:" about ten times over. Im giving you the benifit of the doubt that your capable of refuting my point with a scientific arguement so dont do yourself a diservice with a smiley face.

steddyeddy

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

We know that Teddy...Mostly escapees from exotic pet holdings,or liberation animals or domestics gone feral.However they have been hunted down pretty quickly and dispatched of within appx 2years of them going wild.

Considering there are posts on here like

As a man who spends a HUGE amount of time out in the countryside, all over the country, until I see a boar, a munty, a lion, a tiger or a bear, I will assume any stories about sighting are bullsh!t.

Ill take it some people dont know. You have no possbile way of telling how many are left in the wild since their are still reports being made.

As regeards the escapees well thats clearly the case any animal not usually found here must be an escapee or descendent of an escapee.

garv123

steddyeddy wrote: »

There is wild boar in ireland ask the irish wildlife trust.

there was one shot near a school about 2 years ago in south tip in a small village on the waterford border, not long after one of the lads who shoot said it walked passed their car up the vee. Didnt know weather to believe him or not till his girlfriend said it too and then paulo backed up the story of it been shot too.
apparently someone released about 15 them up the country hoping they would breed.

Grizzly 45

[

QUOTE=steddyeddy;75634738]Right Grizzly apologies for the delay a hard days studying will do that to you.

Why are you addressing this to me personally???

I take it by the face beside the statement that you'r joking. Ireland and Britian share a biome. That is the Temperate Deciduous Forest biome. A biome shares similar flora and fauna as does Ireland and england big difference as a description does not apply to an area with similar geography in many cases, similar climate and similar flora and fauna.

Call it what you want but as a conservationist you must know then that we dont have certain species that are native to the UK...So your assertion that we are the same is already dubious ..We do not have species of insects,and fauna that are common in the UK ,in Ireland.So no I'm not joking.
Anyways ,last time I looked big black cats werent common here or in the UK or Europe,since sabre tooth tigers died out???

Im personally not hearing that but yes military, police and civilians have reported big black cats.

Uh Huh,coppers and squaddies are up on large cat identification now are they?? Enemy tanks and villans no problem,but a "big black cat" tells us nothing much new.Again you are working on the UK,not Ireland..

However if you want to use military personel.Google the beast of the Hunsruck.

A small black leopard could easily remain elusive here imo as they are quite stealthy and agile as well as the fact that leopards are nocturnal. You simply wouldnt see them during the day. They are nowhere near the size of tigers in fact their the smallest member of the genus Panthera.

Yet they manage to cover their tracks very well,by day or night???:rolleyes:
No paw prints,no carcass remains,no resting trees or any other signs of a lepoard,or leopard type cat..

Reasearch indicates leopards home ranges can be up to 300km^2 so again not a problem and there could be more than one.

Oh pleeeeuzee!!!Now you are stretching credibility wayy too far..Do you even realise how much terrority that is in Ireland???Thats almost Dublin /Gorey/Kilkenny area in size for an example. Could be more than one would suggest then that the potential for discovery increases dramatically.

True but big cats could easily smell people from miles away. Worked in an area with plenty of them not a problem for me.

Not a problem to you???? Dont understand what you are trying to say??So they can smell people miles away...And???They still have to eat,and defecate,and possibly mate if there are more than one.
The major component of the puzzle that is always missing here.FACT!!

Again leopards in particular are extremely stealthy its not like an animal most irish people would have dealt with.

How do you know it is a leopard???Scientific fact behind this or just a general sweeping statement revelant to here???.
FACT is no one has a viable sighting or physical evidence of any type of cat to be able to even speculate as to what it might be.So how you can say it is a leopard or panther is intresting.

Leopards are extremely versatile and even eat dung beetles in the wild they will eat anything from rodents to crocs.

Neither of which we have in Ireland... And again you are ASSuming it is a leopard type cat in size.A post ago you said it could be lynx size....So really said you dont know either do you???

Predators have been found in areas a lot smaller than Ireland!

No doubt,but I'm sure thy left evidence behind that would belie their existance

Listen man not being funny but im a scientist I think I can understand something more complex than ":rolleyes:" about ten times over.

So "man" what do you percive your hunter friend saw in Oregon??What is your scientific explanation for it????? You havent been very forthcoming with an explanation for it .

Im giving you the benifit of the doubt that your capable of refuting my point with a scientific arguement so dont do yourself a diservice with a smiley face.

Im sorry I thought scientists dealt in facts,not wild rumours and speculation!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Sofar I hate to refute your scientific observations ,but it has been sweeping generalisation,lacking and ignoring in factual evidence relating to this particular situation of a cat in Ireland,or trying to fit theories into actuality.Lots of mights,can,and possiblys,not much is.

Sorry,I'm just a dumbass Irish hunter and private investigator without any fancy scientific qualifications behind my name or "studying" for any either.
But I have been following this story for over 15 years,and I deal with factual matter and evidence on more complex problems than wether fictional wild cats in Ireland of leopard size exist.The on the ground evidence does not suggest the possibility of such here.

Reasons.
1] No physical evidence of a large cat,in the shapes of tracks,paw prints,execrement,killed prey if any,having any trademark signature of a big cat[in which we are talking leopard,cougar,black panther size as this seems to be the standard size mentioned]

2] Witness stories have not corroborated on details, even vaugely,apart from big and black.Not alot of evidence to go on now is it??
Reports in NIreland say black and "labrador size"
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/187309-Ireland-Panthers-leopards-and-pumas-sighted-in-fields-throughout-Ulster

3] Despite some hunters claiming to see these cats ,not one of them has managed despite being armed to shoot one or describe one in better detail than the above big and black.Nor has any of them despite having a camera phone and or NV been able to photo a track or print,nor lift a cast of one.Ditto for the NPWS.
Excuses aplenty though,forgot that they had the camera phone,didnt want to get in trouble shooting it,etc.
Nor apprently has anyone got a good tracker dog,or a hound pack that could be put on the scent to try and track this big cat down the next day.

4]Despite apprently having removed a animal carcass and execrement from one "kill site" in 2008[?] the Dept of agriculture has not released any findings on this carcass or execrement.. I ASSume they have not because it wasnt a big cat at all and just a media hype story in silly season,soon to be forgotton
[ii] It was and they clammed up as not to panic the locals in the area.In which case an armed Army/Garda sweep would have beendone in the area to neutralise the danger.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/7302381.stm

3] Live trapping attempts in areas of the sightings have been negative as well.
5] A Professional "white hunter" has looked at this and reports of said large black felines and conclude that from his 30 odd years of hunting them in Zimbabwae and from the possible only "kill" it is not a leopard .
As leopards dont eat just the hind quaters of their prey on the ground.They generally eat up a tree somplace.I assume that applies for mountain lions and BPs?

6] Time of these sightings!! Mostly in a period of late May to late Aug..Commonly known as silly season,when there is a slow press and media time.It dies out again and hasnt been reported on up to 2011.Virtually in this thread.But if you search the shooting boards here it has been up since 2005[?]I think.
Question. Where do these cats hang out in the Winter??We have had two extremly cold and snowy winters here last.Yet no tracks,or even killed stock,as these cats must be hungry,and are mainly meat eating predators.

7]http://scotcat.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=ftghgjh
The above link is to all the big cat sightings in both NI and ROI
Last sighting supposedly in Cork in 2008..Now its Nov 2011.Two and abit hard Winters later in Co Cork,and no one has seen tracks lost stock or picked up a scent with their dogs.

So as far as I am concerned this big cat story on the ground is as likely as As the Loch Ness monster.In fact theree is a scientific description for these sightings ..Alien Big Cats.Or Phantom cats.

From Wikipedia,[which does dispute the accruacy and fairness of the article..So use it for backround info only to describe the phenomen.]

Phantom cats, also known as Alien Big Cats (ABCs), are large felines, such as jaguars or cougars, which have been purported to appear in regions outside their indigenous range. Sightings, tracks and predation have been reported in a number of countries and states including Britain, Australia, Ireland, New Zealand, Finland, Denmark, Eastern United States, Hawaii, and Luxembourg.
As with other aspects of cryptozoology, the study of Phantom Cats is considered by mainstream science to constitute pseudoscience or fringe science. In general, scientists reject the possibility that such mega-fauna cryptids exist, because of the improbably large numbers necessary to maintain a breeding population[1] and because climate and food supply issues make their survival in reported habitats unlikely.[2]

"The Beast of the Hunsruck".
If anyone ever flies Ryanair to Frankfurt Hahn,which was a former military airforce base,do ask the locals in the bars in Hahn or Kaufbauern[appx 1km from the airport] about this "big cat" .It was supposedly witnessed and attacked by two USAF sentries in the 1980s on the base at the perimiter fence,and set the base on red alert.


Sorry its not scientific ,just factual my refute.But I am doing my best.

Being a scientist doesnt make you an expert on what going on in our local fields friend.:)
Best.
Grizz

Grizzly 45

garv123 wrote: »

there was one shot near a school about 2 years ago in south tip in a small village on the waterord border, not long after one of the lads who shoot said it walked passed their car up the vee. Didnt know weather to believe him or not till his girlfriend said it too and then paulo baced up the story of it been shot too.
apparently someone released about 15 them up the country hoping they would breed.

Yup,it was mentioned here on Boards.ie and in the ISD as well.
However ,where are the other 14??? [Or by now at least 100 plus],estimating a ratio of 6boars to8 sows,producing on average 10 young per farrow]as WB are pretty prolific breeders and that many free breeding adults would be well seen and be known in the province by now.As ,unlike the elusive big cats,boars do leave tell tale evidence of their eating habits like rooted up potato patches,maize fields,wheat and general piggy habits like digging up the place.

Either somone is telling tall tales or there has been alot of Covert OPS in boar eradication by the Army /AGS in the last few years.
I'd tip on the former.:rolleyes:

Birdnuts

This thread is like a debate over the existence of god;)

Tackleberrywho

Birdnuts wrote: »

This thread is like a debate over the existence of god;)

Easier prove God Exists!
Not one footprint, come

on.....
Even God left footprints

Glensman

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

[
We are in IRELAND not the UK mainland...Big difference!:rolleyes:
Just bcause it happens or is in England does NOT mean it is automatically over here.

A Lynx???Not exactly a "big black cat" now is it???
The things seen around here,taking into account that on exxageration of the tale ,we are hearing tales of things the sizes of tigers.:eek:

A lynx or somthing that size is quiet possible here,and with the lax laws on owning exotic pets all the more so.

But somthing like a Mountain lion upwards I'd have very grave doubts about for the following reasons..

How they manage to be seen in various different locations around Ireland [usually in the Summer months if you want to research the newspapers online] that are geographically appx 200 miles apart at any given sighting??

Ireland isnt densely forested countyside,we are mostly open pastureland with isolated forestry clumps or willow bogs for cover.Yet you can be assured it is traversed somtime within a 31 day period by somone.

There has already been a lynx shot in Ireland by the RUC.
I also watched a documentary on the BBC one time about some loyalist in Belfast that had 2 pet lion cubs that he walked on leads...

If other people had similar, and released them or they ran away...

landkeeper

i have never seen somebody go to such lengths to explain why there could NOT be something out there
i firmly believe there there are felines out there that are as yet undiscovered
my brother who lives in scotland, was in the local kids playground with my niece a few years ago, he saw a large black cat outside the fence in some bushes he watched it for a few minutes and then it slinked off, he said at one point it was about 20 yrds away and streched at least 6ft from nose to tail because that was the distance from one fence post to another
he is no townie who dosn't know stock ,he lives and works in the highlands and spends a lot of his free time photographing wildlife.
as he said trust him not to have the camera with him that time

here two years ago a friend had several adult in lamb ewes killed with a single bite to the back of the neck one night,no wool pulled off no scattered bits not your avearge dog attack but we spent ages looking and never saw anything after that, it didn't come back didn't feed on the carcasses and it was a good grassy field so no tracks

John_Rambo

Check this out, lost in Malahide in Dublin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyqEBXrt8IQ

Birdnuts

John_Rambo wrote: »

Check this out, lost in Malahide in Dublin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyqEBXrt8IQ

Not a big cat though - there about the seize of a small fox

John_Rambo

I know yeah... just thought I'd throw it up there. Wonder what happened to it, they never found it.

pheasntstalker

kept a big huge black putty cat years ago:eek: it was known to wander far from home ,always came back with a rabbit!! ah i miss sooty great hunter:D:D maybe she moved to wicklow?? any body see,s her tell her to stop this slinking around and come home the brazen hussy;)