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Big black cat......
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Grizzly 45 wrote: »[
Why are you addressing this to me personally???
Primarily because it was a response to a post of mine that you were replying to.Call it what you want but as a conservationist you must know then that we dont have certain species that are native to the UK...So your assertion that we are the same is already dubious ..We do not have species of insects,and fauna that are common in the UK ,in Ireland.So no I'm not joking.
Anyways ,last time I looked big black cats werent common here or in the UK or Europe,since sabre tooth tigers died out???
Dubious? Its not my ascertation its agreed one by basically ever ecologist that you can class an area according to similar flora and fauna. Ireland and Britian are quite similar. A few species in the difference isnt describing a big difference. Yes the big cats did indeed die out but if they exist I maintain their escapees.Uh Huh,coppers and squaddies are up on large cat identification now are they?? Enemy tanks and villans no problem,but a "big black cat" tells us nothing much new.Again you are working on the UK,not Ireland..
However if you want to use military personel.Google the beast of the Hunsruck.
No but they certainly are trained observers. I was actually referring to Ireland as an island specifically the north as other posters have said the psni and ruc have had many reports of big cats roaming the area.Yet they manage to cover their tracks very well,by day or night???:rolleyes:
No paw prints,no carcass remains,no resting trees or any other signs of a lepoard,or leopard type cat..
Do you know how hard it is to find a carcass of certain animals that die of natural causes? Anyway yes as I said they would have no problem remaining undectected as I have experienced first hand.Oh pleeeeuzee!!!Now you are stretching credibility wayy too far..Do you even realise how much terrority that is in Ireland???Thats almost Dublin /Gorey/Kilkenny area in size for an example. Could be more than one would suggest then that the potential for discovery increases dramatically.
Again you seem to be crediting me with this figure. Its a figure came apoun by observing these animals in the wild. One minute you have a problem with the widespread nature of the sightings next you have a problem with the fact that a large sighting range correlates with the known range of an actual leopard.Not a problem to you????
Dont understand what you are trying to say??So they can smell people miles away...And???They still have to eat,and defecate,and possibly mate if there are more than one.
The major component of the puzzle that is always missing here.FACT!!
I mean not a problem for someone who has been in areas swarming with big cats but only got fleeting glimpses of a few. You dont see how an animal smelling an aproaching threat would cause it to stay away from people aproaching? Yes they have to defecate, mate and the rest. Indeed again if their escapees there is very few of them.How do you know it is a leopard???Scientific fact behind this or just a general sweeping statement revelant to here???.
FACT is no one has a viable sighting or physical evidence of any type of cat to be able to even speculate as to what it might be.So how you can say it is a leopard or panther is intresting.
Not really interesting the two known big cats with a black color are the jaguar and a melanistic leopard. The jaguar is far too rare to be an exotic pet in great numbers but people have been known to keep melanistic leopards.
Neither of which we have in Ireland... And again you are ASSuming it is a leopard type cat in size.A post ago you said it could be lynx size....So really said you dont know either do you???
No I didnt say it could be lynx size I said a lynx was caught in England not that I think one was roaming here. A lynx was reported there and then caught.No doubt,but I'm sure thy left evidence behind that would belie their existance
Well agree to diagree on that one.
So "man" what do you percive your hunter friend saw in Oregon??What is your scientific explanation for it????? You havent been very forthcoming with an explanation for it .
I havent a scientific explanation for one sighting I cant base anything on that. Thats not how Zoology works. If one person reports something in the woods that could be anything. Two a coincidence a few hundred then we have to come up with a theory for what people are seeing.Im sorry I thought scientists dealt in facts,not wild rumours and speculation!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Actually scientists deal with theorys to explain phenomenon. Im presenting a theory and once again your making an excellent well informed arguement with what looks like a line of people suffering from a stroke.Sofar I hate to refute your scientific observations ,but it has been sweeping generalisation,lacking and ignoring in factual evidence relating to this particular situation of a cat in Ireland,or trying to fit theories into actuality.Lots of mights,can,and possiblys,not much is.
And you have completely misrepresented what a big cat is or isnt capable of.Sorry,I'm just a dumbass Irish hunter and private investigator without any fancy scientific qualifications behind my name or "studying" for any either.
But I have been following this story for over 15 years,and I deal with factual matter and evidence on more complex problems than wether fictional wild cats in Ireland of leopard size exist.The on the ground evidence does not suggest the possibility of such here.
As you seen before I work with hunters on the ground in most countries. Not in Ireland but I have had hunters telling me exactly what they saw. If Im taking them seriously I hardly think their dumb now do I. I was pointing out the fact that your harming your arguement throwing in smiley faces randomly.
[/QUOTE]Reasons.
1] No physical evidence of a large cat,in the shapes of tracks,paw prints,execrement,killed prey if any,having any trademark signature of a big cat[in which we are talking leopard,cougar,black panther size as this seems to be the standard size mentioned]
2] Witness stories have not corroborated on details, even vaugely,apart from big and black.Not alot of evidence to go on now is it??
Reports in NIreland say black and "labrador size"
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/187309-Ireland-Panthers-leopards-and-pumas-sighted-in-fields-throughout-Ulster
3] Despite some hunters claiming to see these cats ,not one of them has managed despite being armed to shoot one or describe one in better detail than the above big and black.Nor has any of them despite having a camera phone and or NV been able to photo a track or print,nor lift a cast of one.Ditto for the NPWS.
Excuses aplenty though,forgot that they had the camera phone,didnt want to get in trouble shooting it,etc.
Nor apprently has anyone got a good tracker dog,or a hound pack that could be put on the scent to try and track this big cat down the next day.
4]Despite apprently having removed a animal carcass and execrement from one "kill site" in 2008[?] the Dept of agriculture has not released any findings on this carcass or execrement.. I ASSume they have not because it wasnt a big cat at all and just a media hype story in silly season,soon to be forgotton
[ii] It was and they clammed up as not to panic the locals in the area.In which case an armed Army/Garda sweep would have beendone in the area to neutralise the danger.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/7302381.stm
3] Live trapping attempts in areas of the sightings have been negative as well.
5] A Professional "white hunter" has looked at this and reports of said large black felines and conclude that from his 30 odd years of hunting them in Zimbabwae and from the possible only "kill" it is not a leopard .
As leopards dont eat just the hind quaters of their prey on the ground.They generally eat up a tree somplace.I assume that applies for mountain lions and BPs?
6] Time of these sightings!! Mostly in a period of late May to late Aug..Commonly known as silly season,when there is a slow press and media time.It dies out again and hasnt been reported on up to 2011.Virtually in this thread.But if you search the shooting boards here it has been up since 2005[?]I think.
Question. Where do these cats hang out in the Winter??We have had two extremly cold and snowy winters here last.Yet no tracks,or even killed stock,as these cats must be hungry,and are mainly meat eating predators.
7]http://scotcat.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=ftghgjh
The above link is to all the big cat sightings in both NI and ROI
Last sighting supposedly in Cork in 2008..Now its Nov 2011.Two and abit hard Winters later in Co Cork,and no one has seen tracks lost stock or picked up a scent with their dogs.
So as far as I am concerned this big cat story on the ground is as likely as As the Loch Ness monster.In fact theree is a scientific description for these sightings ..Alien Big Cats.Or Phantom cats.
From Wikipedia,[which does dispute the accruacy and fairness of the article..So use it for backround info only to describe the phenomen.]
Phantom cats, also known as Alien Big Cats (ABCs), are large felines, such as jaguars or cougars, which have been purported to appear in regions outside their indigenous range. Sightings, tracks and predation have been reported in a number of countries and states including Britain, Australia, Ireland, New Zealand, Finland, Denmark, Eastern United States, Hawaii, and Luxembourg.
As with other aspects of cryptozoology, the study of Phantom Cats is considered by mainstream science to constitute pseudoscience or fringe science. In general, scientists reject the possibility that such mega-fauna cryptids exist, because of the improbably large numbers necessary to maintain a breeding population[1] and because climate and food supply issues make their survival in reported habitats unlikely.[2]
"The Beast of the Hunsruck".
If anyone ever flies Ryanair to Frankfurt Hahn,which was a former military airforce base,do ask the locals in the bars in Hahn or Kaufbauern[appx 1km from the airport] about this "big cat" .It was supposedly witnessed and attacked by two USAF sentries in the 1980s on the base at the perimiter fence,and set the base on red alert.
Sorry its not scientific ,just factual my refute.But I am doing my best.
Being a scientist doesnt make you an expert on what going on in our local fields friend.:)
Best.
Grizz
The most scientific part of your post mr grizzles actually but its not fact its opinion.0 -
landkeeper wrote: »i have never seen somebody go to such lengths to explain why there could NOT be something out there
i firmly believe there there are felines out there that are as yet undiscovered
my brother who lives in scotland, was in the local kids playground with my niece a few years ago, he saw a large black cat outside the fence in some bushes he watched it for a few minutes and then it slinked off, he said at one point it was about 20 yrds away and streched at least 6ft from nose to tail because that was the distance from one fence post to another
he is no townie who dosn't know stock ,he lives and works in the highlands and spends a lot of his free time photographing wildlife.
as he said trust him not to have the camera with him that time
here two years ago a friend had several adult in lamb ewes killed with a single bite to the back of the neck one night,no wool pulled off no scattered bits not your avearge dog attack but we spent ages looking and never saw anything after that, it didn't come back didn't feed on the carcasses and it was a good grassy field so no tracks
The problem I have with completely deriding theory is that people sort of accusing good honest men of lying about what they saw. Which doesnt sit well with me. Why would I discount something one man told me about wildlife and blindely accept something else told to me.0 -
landkeeper wrote: »i have never seen somebody go to such lengths to explain why there could NOT be something out there
Go back to the earlier God comment from Birdnuts.
After reading all the comments I tend to agree with Grizz on this one.
Without evidence, everything is just theory. Of course there could be an odd released one that could go unseen for awhile & there is food sources out there. Chances are 1 could be shot in time to come but odds are it won't as theyre not there to be seen0 -
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EPointer=Birdss wrote: »Go back to the earlier God comment from Birdnuts.
After reading all the comments I tend to agree with Grizz on this one.
Without evidence, everything is just theory. Of course there could be an odd released one that could go unseen for awhile & there is food sources out there. Chances are 1 could be shot in time to come but odds are it won't as theyre not there to be seen
It remi8nds me of Bear Grylls in Donegal, could not find a road.........
Can't walk 1 mile without hitting a road.
Cat prints are very distinctive, I can track one stag/Buck and yet in the alleged areas not one print or Scat?
I always find fox scat out in the filed.
And I test deer scat to see if it's still warm
I was waling through woodland last evening ~ 6pm, I still could make out deer tracks in almost darkness.
Yet no Farmer/Hunter or Rambler has a photo o a track?
I have thousands of pics of tracks that I build up for my deer tracker I have on my PC.
I can pin point every Owl and rare mammal location in the area.
I know every burrow, Sett, Covert and stand.
Yet no Cat Prints??????????0 -
Tackleberrywho wrote: »It remi8nds me of Bear Grylls in Donegal, could not find a road.........
Can't walk 1 mile without hitting a road.
Cat prints are very distinctive, I can track one stag/Buck and yet in the alleged areas not one print or Scat?
I always find fox scat out in the filed.
And I test deer scat to see if it's still warm
I was waling through woodland last evening ~ 6pm, I still could make out deer tracks in almost darkness.
Yet no Farmer/Hunter or Rambler has a photo o a track?
I have thousands of pics of tracks that I build up for my deer tracker I have on my PC.
I can pin point every Owl and rare mammal location in the area.
I know every burrow, Sett, Covert and stand.
Yet no Cat Prints??????????
Am I missing something here? I'm with the odds are stacked they DON'T exist here.
I am not so ignorant to say 100% they don't but my opinion is they don't.
So I AGREE tack
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EPointer=Birdss wrote: »Am I missing something here? I'm with the odds are stacked they DON'T exist here.
I am not so ignorant to say 100% they don't but my opinion is they don't.
So I AGREE tack
I was agreeing with you, I did not proof read, hence my spelling mistakes.
I was too busy watching a sabre tooth tiger chase a grey gorilla down the M500 -
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California is roughly the size of Ireland. They have somewhere between 2000-6000 "mountain lions" ie brown panthers LOL something like 10 in every 100 mile radius. I have hunted in Cali for more years than I remember and in that time I have come across these cats, their droppings,fresh kills,old kills,sitting in trees and paw prints. I've shot many of them as well and can honestly say from "experience " not scientific "Theories " that if there are big cats in Ireland you would see them or evidence of their residence here,plain and simple. Not to long ago there was a mountain lion shot out of a tree in the middle of Oakland city,
It's easy to say because of their sense of smell,easy to come and go from land without being noticed that's why their elusive is absurd. When breeding season comes for these cats it doesn't matter who are what you are they will kill you and any animal around !!! The mating calls as well is something unreal to listen to,it's like someone ripping your throat out and your still screaming, horrible sound it is..
so back to Ireland, IMO with years of hunting around big cats and not "scientific unfounded research" from behind a desk or reading Wikipedia or someother half wit site, I can say that the only wild cat you will find is the moggy down the road out after rabbits. Now with that Ireland s exotic wild life act is a joke!!! I can buy a rattlesnake, blackmamba and poison dart frogs for less than a score so getting a big cat isn't really hard if u have the money. What I think we will see sometime in the future is a big cat shot but it will be someone's pet not a wild, well tuned hunter that they are. As for hunting folks on here that they swear they seen one why didn't you shoot it? Run it down with the car or even take out your mobile and take a pic 0 -
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