RAF

cmalone922

Can anyone tell me if i can become an raf pilot? i know people from the republic can join the raf but are they restricted to raf jobs other than a pilot/officer? any replies would be welcomed

goldie fish

Maybe.

Maybe_Memories

You can join the British Army Air Corp but not the RAF. Very annoying, but you may be able to possibly transfer after a few years service.

Wondering the same thing myself.

xflyer

Without British citizenship you won't get into the RAF directly as a pilot anymore. But it's quite possible a few years service in the RAF in some sort of job and a British passport would facilitate that. But it's a long shot. The obvious route is as NCO aircrew, such as in C130s or Chinooks or SAR. You don't need to be British for those jobs anymore. But there might be a residency requirment. Years ago when I looked into it, you did and it was five years. I queried that and eventually they told me one year was acceptable. I would definitely have joined back then had it been possible.

It's all down to security clearances.

It's also worth pointing out that the RAF just let go a number of trainee fast jet pilots quite simply because there are no slots for them in the now reduced RAF.

cmalone922

cheers xflyer:)im gutted now though haha but still your reply was the best i got

ro95

Im 17 and studying for my leaving certificate. i've always dreamt of being an RAF pilot and being an Irish national living just across the border its been difficult to get reliable information. i want to become an F-35 pilot in the RAF. My mother was born in the UK and through descent i'm entitled to UK citizenship, I have just completed my UCAS form and have applied to university in scotland solely to up my chances of becoming an officer in the RAF, Could anyone give my advice? it would be much appreciated. -ro95

cyrusdvirus

You might want to be an F-35 driver, but if they want you in an A400M then that could well be where you end up.

Jawgap

gatecrash wrote: »

You might want to be an F-35 driver, but if they want you in an A400M then that could well be where you end up.

Long, long ago in a galaxy far, far away.......I went through the process of looking to join the RAF (I had the option of British citizenship through my mother)......

.....anyway in the late 80s I went as far as going to Cranwell for the aptitude and selection tests - I also got to have a very frank discussion with a very nice Squadron Leader.

The first point he made that everyone wants to fly fast jets - the object of my desire was the Jaguar GR1 (everyone else seemed to want the Tornado) - but the RAF might want you to do something else that you are better suited for, for example the RAF Regiment, or as an ATC or as a navigator (what the real clever-clogs do), and was I ok with that?

At the time I think it was about 1 in 20 successful candidates who complete officer training are sent forward for flight training, and about 1 in 40 of those eventually make it to fast jets - the ratios may have changed in the interim.

The second point he made was that given the amount of money to be spent on training someone they would want me not to go home to Dublin too often (given the security situation).

The third point he made was what happened if I dropped out / failed and couldn't go back to Dublin, what was my Plan B?

It was a lot of food for thought, and despite passing initial selection I opted not to proceed - tried for the Air Corps and failed miserably!

Anyway, points 2 & 3 are now thankfully no longer a concern, but the first point is probably still valid for any prospective recruit.

bluecode

Go to a university affilated with a University Air Squadron. Actually Queens in Belfast is one. A definite advantage I would have should assuming you're selected.

And yes we'd all like to fly the F35. But as Jawgap says that may not be option you're offered assumed you ever get that far. Indeed recently they simply dismissed a whole bunch of cadet pilots, some close to wings. Because there were simply no places available. It's now harder than ever to get fly with the RAF.

tac foley

bluecode wrote: »

Go to a university affilated with a University Air Squadron. Actually Queens in Belfast is one. A definite advantage I would have should assuming you're selected.

And yes we'd all like to fly the F35. But as Jawgap says that may not be option you're offered assumed you ever get that far. Indeed recently they simply dismissed a whole bunch of cadet pilots, some close to wings. Because there were simply no places available. It's now harder than ever to get fly with the RAF.

...and STILL not possible for a non-UK passport holder.

tac

Maybe_Memories

tac foley wrote: »

...and STILL not possible for a non-UK passport holder.

tac

and "officially" this holds for all parts of the RAF, though I was talking to a careers adviser on e-goat and he said people joining from Ireland is fine even if you haven't been in the UK for 5 years.

Still flying is a no go.


For anyone interested in flying though the wait for nationality to join the Belgian air force is only 3 years.

tac foley

Maybe_Memories wrote: »

and "officially" this holds for all parts of the RAF, though I was talking to a careers adviser on e-goat and he said people joining from Ireland is fine even if you haven't been in the UK for 5 years.

Still flying is a no go.


For anyone interested in flying though the wait for nationality to join the Belgian air force is only 3 years.

The immediate benefit to trying to join ANY part of the Armed Forces of the UK is that everybody speaks English.

Joining the Belgian Air Force requires you to be a French/Flemish speaker as well as English.

No doubt, by the end of the three year wait for nationality you might be good enough in the language department, but.......

tac

Jawgap

Fleet Air Arm? Line yourself up as an F35B driver?

Not sure about the exact eligibility requirements, but if you want to go on subs you must hold British citizenship - no exceptions and no waivers

tac foley

Jawgap wrote: »

Fleet Air Arm? Line yourself up as an F35B driver?

Not sure about the exact eligibility requirements, but if you want to go on subs you must hold British citizenship - no exceptions and no waivers

The same applies to flying fast jets in the RAF or the RN - in fact, any officer aircraft piloting MOS.

You MIGHT get to be a helicopter pilot as an OR in the AAC, but that's something you'd have to check. The general rule is that if you want to pilot an aircraft in HM Forces, you'd better be British and a British passport holder.

If in doubt, you might just consider starting your own research by calling the relevant careers' centres, or whatever it's called now - they are in the NI phone book.

tac

Geekness1234

21st century fighter pilots worth their aviator glasses and breitling watches, all have top secret security clearances.
This would be quite difficult to obtain if you only been in-country a few years.

tac foley

I hesitate to mention this point, but it has to be said, and by me, since it doesn't matter a hoot whether I get banned or not [I'm already banned from even visiting another Irish site].

But Ireland, Republic of, in spite of close trading ties with the UK, is still a foreign sovereign nation, and all of you born there, in spite of the fact that there is a memorandum of understanding that still allows you to join the Armed Forces of the Crown, are still foreigners, like I am here.

Foreigners are not generally permitted to have access to certain information relevant to the defensive and offiensive nature of their work that is highly classified. Such information is only made available to nationals.

I'm still looking into the comment that it would be possible for an Irishman to join the Belgian Air Force as a pilot, and although I'm pretty sure it's all horse feathers, I'm waiting a call to either prove or disprove it.

Until then, I have nothing more to add to this thread.

tac

cyrusdvirus

tac foley wrote: »

I hesitate to mention this point, but it has to be said, and by me, since it doesn't matter a hoot whether I get banned or not [I'm already banned from even visiting another Irish site].

But Ireland, Republic of, in spite of close trading ties with the UK, is still a foreign sovereign nation, and all of you born there, in spite of the fact that there is a memorandum of understanding that still allows you to join the Armed Forces of the Crown, are still foreigners, like I am here.

Foreigners are not generally permitted to have access to certain information relevant to the defensive and offiensive nature of their work that is highly classified. Such information is only made available to nationals.

I'm still looking into the comment that it would be possible for an Irishman to join the Belgian Air Force as a pilot, and although I'm pretty sure it's all horse feathers, I'm waiting a call to either prove or disprove it.

Until then, I have nothing more to add to this thread.

tac

Uhhhh.... Tac?? Why would that get you banned?

I'm not a mod here, i am on another site, but that post wouldn't even register on my radar.

Jawgap

Of course the slight irony is that during the RAF's 'Finest Hour' two the senior operational commanders were 'non-nationals,' not to mention the significant group of pilots who flew daily in air defence - although things were a lot different when there's an Empire and a Commonwealth, and the Luftwaffe are trying to bomb you into submission:)

tac foley

Jawgap wrote: »

Of course the slight irony is that during the RAF's 'Finest Hour' two the senior operational commanders were 'non-nationals,' not to mention the significant group of pilots who flew daily in air defence - although things were a lot different when there's an Empire and a Commonwealth, and the Luftwaffe are trying to bomb you into submission:)

In those awful days, many pilots didn't last long enough to sign the official secrets act. A bum on a seat, that could fly a fighter plane, was all that was needed regardless of the nationality.

My English teacher, who was a Typhoon pilot from early 1944 to the end of the war, used to regail us with stories - he wrote a book, too. He once told us that of the twenty-eight fellow pilots, including himself, that arrived on the station in spring of '44, only three - him included - were left by the end of the war.

I've already pointed out on another thread that one of the RAF's aces, Wg Cdr 'Paddy' Finucane, was as Irish as it was possible to be.

tac

bluecode

To be fair Ro95 did say he was entitled to British citizenship. Which covers him to some extent. While Tac is right about the security issue. It is, and I stand to be corrected, I believe most likely a requirement imposed either from NATO or the Americans because of course a lot of super secret stuff is American. As Ireland is outside NATO a full security clearance cannot be obtained. Indeed it might be more likely that a Belgian can fly in the RAF than an Irish person. The RAF has Australian and New Zealand pilots flying for them. Presumably they passed the security clearance? Admittedly they were hired as experienced pilots.

On the point of being Irish people being foreign, while technically true. Essentially that's ignored in the British forces as it is in Britain generally and vice versa for the most part.

The security restriction is relatively recent. Back in the eighties the only requirement for an Irish citizen was residency. Officially five years, unofficially one year. That was confirmed to me in writing by an RAF officer in the MOD. So it was possible. But once the security issue came into play that was that. The irony of course is that if you live just the othe side of the border no such issues arise.

In fact until a couple of years ago it was even more restrictive. You actually had to be British born to fly in the RAF. That's gone now. But all in all it's a pity really that realistically there is no outlet for someone in the Republic to become a proper military pilot.

Don't mention the Air Corps. It's easier to win the Lotto.

tac foley

bluecode wrote: »

To be fair Ro95 did say he was entitled to British citizenship. Which covers him to some extent. While Tac is right about the security issue. It is, and I stand to be corrected, I believe most likely a requirement imposed either from NATO or the Americans because of course a lot of super secret stuff is American. As Ireland is outside NATO a full security clearance cannot be obtained. Indeed it might be more likely that a Belgian can fly in the RAF than an Irish person. The RAF has Australian and New Zealand pilots flying for them. Presumably they passed the security clearance? Admittedly they were hired as experienced pilots..

The word you are looking for is the acronym AUSCANUKUS [+NZ]. The intelligence community of AUStralia, CANada, UK and the US of A - with a partial crumb passed to NZ on certain occasions - is a tightly-controlled organisation with its own set caveats and security requirements that exists outside the normal NATO seucity barriers. Obviously the Republic of Ireland does not fit into this organisation - anywhere - therefore nor do its citizens.

The RAF does NOT 'hire' foreign pilots, as you put it. For each foreign pilot in the RAF there is a foreign, that is to say, British, RAF pilot in the other air force - the exchange officer programme has been in place for many years between commonwealth and fellow NATO members in many parts of the British Armed Forces, not just the RAF fying bit. Funnily enough, the RAF recce squadron in which I spent many happy hours had a Dutch, Belgian and Brazilian exchange pilots - not sure how Ozzy the Brazilian got there, but he did! Of course, they all had to learn to fly the RAF planes, just as the British pilots had to learn to fly the F-16 and whatever the Brazilians had - F5s, I think.

Needless to say, again, but I'll repeat it - Ireland [Republic of] fulfils neither of these categories - NATO nor the AUSCANUKUS community - the offer of membership of the Commonwealth was peed on many years ago by one of your governments.

tac

tac foley

bluecode wrote: »

But once the security issue came into play that was that. The irony of course is that if you live just the othe side of the border no such issues arise.

Interesting that you should point that out. I'd like to emphasize that although we are often very pally with each other, north and south, there are TWO nations or parts thereof sharing a common lump of land.

To the British government, the RoI IS as foreign as Venezuela or Singapore or any other sovereign nation. There is, not to put too fine a point on it, no reason why the RoI should enjoy any better relationship with the UK than any other friendly nation. The fact that you can enter one country or the other in a single step is immaterial.

Don't overlook the present state affairs in the rest of Europe - at one time you could step over into Poland from Germany, implacably opposite in ideology and intent. Switzerland, in the heart of Europe and surrounded by five other nations, is STILL not in NATO. So there are NO Swiss pilots flying in any NATO airplane.

tac

bluecode

Thanks, didn't know the acronym. But knew there was a security arrangement of that sort and that's the reason for the restriction. Clearly it doesn't impact on many other jobs in the RAF which are open to Irish nationals.

I used a poor choice of word when I said hired. Recruited or transferred might be more appropriate. I am aware of exchange pilots. But the New Zealanders I referred to were serving in the RAF. I seem to remember there were two in the Red Arrows at one point a couple of years ago. Pause to check.......yes the current Red 7 is a New Zealander. He like the others transferred to the RAF when NZ got rid of their fast jets.

http://www.raf.mod.uk/reds/behindthescenes/red7.cfm

Of course they fall under the AUSCANUKUS + NZ occasionally agreement. Pity there's no + IRL version.

Ireland actually left the Commonwealth after becoming a Republic. I think you're referring to an offer of membership of NATO which was rejected because part of the agreement was to respect other member's borders. Which was impossible for us at the time with the constitutional claim on the North.So we clung to the mythical neutrality.

Again on the point of Irish people being foreign. In fact the Ireland Act has a provison that Ireland would not be treated as a foreign country. In effec therefore we're not actually foreign at all.

Direct quote from the Act not wikipedia.

2 Republic of Ireland not a foreign country..

(1)It is hereby declared that, notwithstanding that the Republic of Ireland is not part of His Majesty’s dominions, the Republic of Ireland is not a foreign country for the purposes of any law in force in any part of the United Kingdom or in any colony, protectorate or United Kingdom trust territory, whether by virtue of a rule of law or of an Act of Parliament or any other enactment or instrument whatsoever, whether passed or made before or after the passing of this Act, and references in any Act of Parliament, other enactment or instrument whatsoever, whether passed or made before or after the passing of this Act, to foreigners, aliens, foreign countries, and foreign or foreign-built ships or aircraft shall be construed accordingly.

It's a rather unique situation isn't it?

tac foley

You are partly right -

Irish legislation - The Republic of Ireland Act 1948 provided for the abolition of the last remaining functions of the King in relation to Ireland and provided that the President of Ireland may instead exercise these functions in the King's place. When the Act came into force on 18 April 1949, it effectively ended Ireland's status as a British dominion. As a consequence of this, it also had the effect of ending Ireland's membership of the British Commonwealth of Nations and the existing basis upon which Ireland and its citizens were treated in the United Kingdom and other Commonwealth countries as "British subjects", not foreigners.

Please note also that the NZ transferees were already not only Commonwealth citizens of a country whose titular HoS is HM The Queen, but were fully-trained fast jet pilots who had probably trained either with the RAAF or the RAF.

Anyhow, interesting though this undoubtedly is, we are drifting from the aim of the thread . IF the OP has British nationality by virtue of his pob, then of course, he is as eligible as any other UK citizen to try his luck in the Cranwell lottery. Bear in mind, though, that Cranwell, or Sleaford Tech as we call it, recently sh&tcanned a whole intake of 'almost' pilots as surplus to requirements...

tac

who the fug

tac foley wrote: »

You are partly right -

Irish legislation - Tthe Republic of Ireland Act 1948 provided for the abolition of the last remaining functions of the King in relation to Ireland and provided that the President of Ireland may instead exercise these functions in the King's place. When the Act came into force on 18 April 1949, it effectively ended Ireland's status as a British dominion. As a consequence of this, it also had the effect of ending Ireland's membership of the British Commonwealth of Nations and the existing basis upon which Ireland and its citizens were treated in the United Kingdom and other Commonwealth countries as "British subjects", not foreigners.

tac

The British just passed a law saying carry on as before, Irish Citizens in England, Scotland and Wales had the same rights as a UK national.

While the UK had conscription the Irish in England, Scotland and Wales could be called up. The uncle was called up, liked it and signed on full time in the RAF

The other interesting one, was many years ago I went to get my boss a work permit for the UK, you have to out the UK when the application is lodged, the 26 counties did not count as out of the UK

The Post office only figured out we had left about 6 year ago, price of a stamp on a letter to Cork was same as a letter to Manchester.

So in summary we are a part of it but not.

bluecode

Bear in mind, though, that Cranwell, or Sleaford Tech as we call it, recently sh&tcanned a whole intake of 'almost' pilots as surplus to requirements...

Yes indeed I cannot imagine how awful that must have been for the people concerned. So near, yet so far. I would have hit the bottle if it was me. Having said that, in the real world with a more objective view of my capablities. I wonder at my utter naivety. I really shouldn't be a professional pilot never mind a military pilot.

But I've been fooling them for years. LOL!

Capt'n Midnight

ro95 wrote: »

i want to become an F-35 pilot in the RAF.

Reality check

Find out how much they cost :eek:

tac foley

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Reality check

Find out how much they cost :eek:

Ah yes, but the driver does not have to be the owner. Imagine the cost of ensuring that!

tac