Donegal - Dublin (A5) cancelled.

mistermouse

I'd imagine that the Irish Government reneging on the agreement will easily allow the UK to back out completely as its the Irish side breaking the agreement. I'd love to see the UK being able to take Ireland to EU court or something over it.

People being against the money being spent in the North should remember that North Donegal people see this a a vital connection to their capital.

Huge amounts of very ill people need to travel to Dublin for Medical treatment not supplied here.

We also need it for tourism and even small business, never mind big business investment.

The section of the route from Manor Roundabout to Monaghan is atrocious and the Northern section is often the heaviest traffic and slowest part. Just look at the amount of trucks on it daily.

The Whitecross Junction on the Lifford Road was listed in the top ten most dangerous stretches of Road in Ireland, although the Govt reneged on that road years ago.

Donegal has never seen any real genuine or worthwhile capital investment at any time and the people were happy to see the Govt work with NI to get the NI stretch done. It would have been something.

Consistant Govts destroyed fishing industry, did nothing to develop tourism and failed Donegal in all areas. This is just proving that Donegal does not play any part in Dublin's priorities.

Having said that there is a lot of International Fund for Ireland money wasted in this country, a wasteful Airport in West Donegal and the Mulroy Bridge, while here is a project that would really benefit everyone on both sides of the North West Border.

Noreen1

Harps wrote: »

Its not a case of ignoring Donegal, they've scrapped pretty much every infrastructure project in the country, obviously there's the argument that we got close to zero investment during the boom years but you can hardly expect them to be paying €500 million towards a project in another country considering the state of the countries finances at the moment.

That's exactly the point. Donegal has always got less than it's fair share of investment.
This provided a very cost-effective method of vastly improving infrastructure for the people of North Donegal, in particular. It was a golden opportunity, but, once again, Donegal is considered unimportant.

Unsurprisingly, yet another Government let us down, and personally, I'm sick of the constant excuses for why Donegal doesn't merit the same level of infrastructure as the rest of the Country.
We're not second class citizens just because we come from Donegal!:mad:

Ayla wrote: »

Nor does it start & end in L'kenny, but you'd be amazed how many people think it does :rolleyes:



So are you telling me that Donegal would be attractive to big international business, where they'd have to pay their reps/directors to travel/stay in Dublin where the only main internat'l airport is? Or where they'd have to ship everything across the country so that it can be shipped overseas? All of those are costs, and all of them are avoidable by having their business centre in a more productive region. I think it's obvious by the trend of the recent past that we're *losing* big businesses b/c of these same (and other) overhead costs. A road is not going to solve these problems.




Never said that, thanks.

If that first comment is aimed at me, then you might want to consider why I specifically mentioned Letterkenny.
Letterkenny is Donegals biggest town, it has the population density required for recruitment purposes. It's central to the rest of the County., thus being the logical route for people from a wide area, and the Northwest, in particular.

I don't understand your preoccupation with "big international business". While the employment the provide is welcome, the truth is that SMEs are the backbone of the Irish economy, and they actually need decent infrastructure, too.
As indeed, do the population as a whole.

Harps

Noreen1 wrote: »

That's exactly the point. Donegal has always got less than it's fair share of investment.
This provided a very cost-effective method of vastly improving infrastructure for the people of North Donegal, in particular. It was a golden opportunity, but, once again, Donegal is considered unimportant.

Unsurprisingly, yet another Government let us down, and personally, I'm sick of the constant excuses for why Donegal doesn't merit the same level of infrastructure as the rest of the Country.
We're not second class citizens just because we come from Donegal!:mad:

Yep, not going to disagree there, take away the Ballyshannon/Bundoran bypass and I can't think of a single major infrastructural project. Could argue the Mulroy bridge but considering it only serves a handful of people its not exactly comparable to a decent road to Letterkenny.

In saying that, Dublin has been chronically under-invested in as well despite what most people would tell you and was hit equally hard this week with the cancellation of the Metro North, Dart Underground, DIT etc so I dont buy into the whole ignoring Donegal idea for this. Obviously Dublin has had a lot more investment than us but when you consider tax contribution Dubliners are paying for half the infrastructure around the country that has little benefit to them

ednwireland

Harps wrote: »

Yep, not going to disagree there, take away the Ballyshannon/Bundoran bypass and I can't think of a single major infrastructural project. Could argue the Mulroy bridge but considering it only serves a handful of people its not exactly comparable to a decent road to Letterkenny.

In saying that, Dublin has been chronically under-invested in as well despite what most people would tell you and was hit equally hard this week with the cancellation of the Metro North, Dart Underground, DIT etc so I dont buy into the whole ignoring Donegal idea for this. Obviously Dublin has had a lot more investment than us but when you consider tax contribution Dubliners are paying for half the infrastructure around the country that has little benefit to them

donegal town bypass, mountain top ( and bits of road ouut there ) lots of small bits of road, though no major linkage

Ayla

I will make one last comment & then I'm out:

I stand by my earlier statements that I don't think this road would make/break Donegal as a whole right now. Yes, it would be nice, and it may improve the lives of residents & businesses, and yes it may have been politically promised when the days were brighter.

But times have changed folks. Lots of things have gotten the axe and whether or not you like to admit it we're not the only ones who've been burned. As Harps said, proportionally the tax income is much higher in Dublin, but are they seeing all the return of their money now?

Overshoot noted that Letterkenny is the 20th largest town in ROI. That means that 19 towns have a larger population, larger need for infrastructure, larger demand for schools & hospitals, and larger impact to their existing structures. I understand that Derry is the 4th biggest on the island, but we do not receive their tax revenue, so (when considering ROI's budget) it's not entirely fair to consider Derry in their decisions.

The way I see it (and have said many times now): since the decision right now is coming down to whether the state pays for A&Es, cancer services, repair of dilapidated schools, etc, or a road...well, I have my priorities anyway.

Fuctifino

Coming from a Carndonagh fella, the 3hr 54 figure is twaddle. I regularly drive to Stillorgan, pretty much every weekend, and take the M1 to Belfast, then Belfast -> Dungiven -> Derry - > Home, and at most it takes about 3 hours.

Why to Donegal people think that the A5 is important considering the climate? I agree that it's important to have a quicker way to Dublin, but we should of been crying out 5 years ago for this, not now.

md23040

Fuctifino wrote: »

Coming from a Carndonagh fella, the 3hr 54 figure is twaddle. I regularly drive to Stillorgan, pretty much every weekend, and take the M1 to Belfast, then Belfast -> Dungiven -> Derry - > Home, and at most it takes about 3 hours.

The traditional A5 route to Dublin central is 236km from Ballybofey and 238km from Letterkenny and takes around 3 hours in normal weekday traffic. Every single imaginable route has been driven by me over the last 16 years, driving back and forth to Dublin. Even used the M1 and turned off at A1 Banbridge junction then 17km to Lurgan on very slow roads before rejoining the M1 then belting along the M1 at 120 kph onto the extended Ballygawley high speed dual at 120 kph to Ballygawley roundabout. But again this is far longer.

Nothing is faster than the present route. Even the journey plan you describe has been done by me on a number of occasions and there is no marker on the route that I could not give a time indication to within 5 minutes. The only way to do this route sub three is to break the law.

Letterkenny Derry = 37km
Derry ring road = 10km
Altnagelvin rounabout to Westlink = 115km
Westlink to Sprucefield junction = 17km
Sprucefield to Dublin = 152km

Total = 331km (even getting to Derry alone in 3 hours is impossible with an average speed of 100km/h)

However what you propose is 93km travel distance more from Letterkenny and 95km more from Ballybofey. Your average speed is 110km/h considering stoppage for toll at Port Tunnel, toll on the M1, traffic along the westlink where my speed has never been above 60 km/h since there's 65,000 AADT, lights from westlink onto M2/M5, onto single carraigeway from end of M2 to Toome (that's always slow), then single road going through Dungiven onto Derry.

What you are saying is impossible without breaking the speed limit.

Going your route to Cardonagh would be a lot longer than the present A5 and would cost much more in petrol and car depreciation. That is unless you know a magic route, and are cutting from Lisburn to Aldgrove along the seven mile straight, onto Antrim and then onto the M2 at Randalstown (but yes done this one too when going to Derry and it's really slow and not worth it).

As an add/on the only bit you can cut time on is by turning left in Emyvale village (when heading to Dublin) and heading to Glaslough. Then in Glaslough heading out the R185 and cutting across to the old Armagh road then rejoining the N2 at the bottom of the hill, farside of Monaghan town (about 6 km from Monaghan bypass). It can shave 5 minutes from the journey on peak times.

Noreen1

Harps wrote: »

Yep, not going to disagree there, take away the Ballyshannon/Bundoran bypass and I can't think of a single major infrastructural project. Could argue the Mulroy bridge but considering it only serves a handful of people its not exactly comparable to a decent road to Letterkenny.

Fair enough.

Harps wrote: »

In saying that, Dublin has been chronically under-invested in as well despite what most people would tell you and was hit equally hard this week with the cancellation of the Metro North, Dart Underground, DIT etc so I dont buy into the whole ignoring Donegal idea for this. Obviously Dublin has had a lot more investment than us but when you consider tax contribution Dubliners are paying for half the infrastructure around the country that has little benefit to them

I think people working in Dublin are paying a sizeable chunk of the total tax intake alright - but a fair proportion of them aren't "Dublin people" - they're people from Donegal, and Cavan, and pretty much anyplace else you care to mention, who work in Dublin.

I live in Northwest Donegal. The population ()of young males, in particular) swells considerably at the weekend, when the workers return from Dublin.

Ayla wrote: »

I will make one last comment & then I'm out:

I stand by my earlier statements that I don't think this road would make/break Donegal as a whole right now. Yes, it would be nice, and it may improve the lives of residents & businesses, and yes it may have been politically promised when the days were brighter.

But times have changed folks. Lots of things have gotten the axe and whether or not you like to admit it we're not the only ones who've been burned. As Harps said, proportionally the tax income is much higher in Dublin, but are they seeing all the return of their money now?

Overshoot noted that Letterkenny is the 20th largest town in ROI. That means that 19 towns have a larger population, larger need for infrastructure, larger demand for schools & hospitals, and larger impact to their existing structures. I understand that Derry is the 4th biggest on the island, but we do not receive their tax revenue, so (when considering ROI's budget) it's not entirely fair to consider Derry in their decisions.

The way I see it (and have said many times now): since the decision right now is coming down to whether the state pays for A&Es, cancer services, repair of dilapidated schools, etc, or a road...well, I have my priorities anyway.

Exactly. Which is why it deserved the same infrastruture as similarly sized towns, both during the "boom", and now.
But it didn't get it then, and it isn't getting it now.

I have the same concern for A&Es as you do - but I see the need for employment to generate tax revenue to pay for these things as being vitally important.
The opportunity was golden, half the investment cost, and no future maintenance costs would have given Donegal the opportunity to develop.

This Government, just like the last one, have thrown that opportunity away.

ednwireland

even less chance of me going to dublin, ever

Where To

md23040 wrote: »

The traditional A5 route to Dublin central is 236km from Ballybofey and 238km from Letterkenny and takes around 3 hours in normal weekday traffic. Every single imaginable route has been driven by me over the last 16 years, driving back and forth to Dublin. Even used the M1 and turned off at A1 Banbridge junction then 17km to Lurgan on very slow roads before rejoining the M1 then belting along the M1 at 120 kph onto the extended Ballygawley high speed dual at 120 kph to Ballygawley roundabout. But again this is far longer.

Nothing is faster than the present route. Even the journey plan you describe has been done by me on a number of occasions and there is no marker on the route that I could not give a time indication to within 5 minutes. The only way to do this route sub three is to break the law.

Letterkenny Derry = 37km
Derry ring road = 10km
Altnagelvin rounabout to Westlink = 115km
Westlink to Sprucefield junction = 17km
Sprucefield to Dublin = 152km

Total = 331km (even getting to Derry alone in 3 hours is impossible with an average speed of 100km/h)

However what you propose is 93km travel distance more from Letterkenny and 95km more from Ballybofey. Your average speed is 110km/h considering stoppage for toll at Port Tunnel, toll on the M1, traffic along the westlink where my speed has never been above 60 km/h since there's 65,000 AADT, lights from westlink onto M2/M5, onto single carraigeway from end of M2 to Toome (that's always slow), then single road going through Dungiven onto Derry.

What you are saying is impossible without breaking the speed limit.

Going your route to Cardonagh would be a lot longer than the present A5 and would cost much more in petrol and car depreciation. That is unless you know a magic route, and are cutting from Lisburn to Aldgrove along the seven mile straight, onto Antrim and then onto the M2 at Randalstown (but yes done this one too when going to Derry and it's really slow and not worth it).

As an add/on the only bit you can cut time on is by turning left in Emyvale village (when heading to Dublin) and heading to Glaslough. Then in Glaslough heading out the R185 and cutting across to the old Armagh road then rejoining the N2 at the bottom of the hill, farside of Monaghan town (about 6 km from Monaghan bypass). It can shave 5 minutes from the journey on peak times.

Carndonagh to Dublin Airport via Belfast is 295 km, easily done in 3 hours without breaking speed limits (outside of peak hours )

overshoot

before using letterkenny being down the list as an excuse, im pretty sure every town above it is bypassed by motorway, or within 10km of one bar tralee and ennis, and the m7 which covers them comes more than halfway across the country (to Nenagh)... and they have trains.... so its basically the biggest town without train, or motorway for at least part of the way to dublin. when combined with derry it becomes clear the NW is forgotton
list.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_towns_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland_by_population
i know its wikipedia but im pretty sure im right that letterkenny is the only one left behind here

but in fairness a road of this scale was always going to get cut, should have been done years ago, too late now..... so the rant in this case still applies to the FF government but il hold FG to account on cancer and the like

firemansam4

Just a quick note on this subject - We went down to Tramore in Waterford earlier this year and there is a fantastic toll free motorway all the way down to Waterford from Dublin.
I just had a look at a site that gives the respective populations for different counties in Ireland...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irish_counties_by_population

And from what I can see here The population of Donegal is far more than that of Waterford. Now I know that that said Motorway passes by Kilkenny and Carlow but If you factor the Populations of Derry, Tyrone and Monaghan into the equation then there would be a much better case for a motorway this direction

Edit: Just noticed this link was posted in the last post

overshoot

you posted a differerent link firemansam, mine is population by town yours is by county

The Assistinator

md23040 wrote: »

The traditional A5 route to Dublin central is 236km from Ballybofey and 238km from Letterkenny and takes around 3 hours in normal weekday traffic. Every single imaginable route has been driven by me over the last 16 years, driving back and forth to Dublin. Even used the M1 and turned off at A1 Banbridge junction then 17km to Lurgan on very slow roads before rejoining the M1 then belting along the M1 at 120 kph onto the extended Ballygawley high speed dual at 120 kph to Ballygawley roundabout. But again this is far longer.

Nothing is faster than the present route. Even the journey plan you describe has been done by me on a number of occasions and there is no marker on the route that I could not give a time indication to within 5 minutes. The only way to do this route sub three is to break the law.

Letterkenny Derry = 37km
Derry ring road = 10km
Altnagelvin rounabout to Westlink = 115km
Westlink to Sprucefield junction = 17km
Sprucefield to Dublin = 152km

Total = 331km (even getting to Derry alone in 3 hours is impossible with an average speed of 100km/h)

However what you propose is 93km travel distance more from Letterkenny and 95km more from Ballybofey. Your average speed is 110km/h considering stoppage for toll at Port Tunnel, toll on the M1, traffic along the westlink where my speed has never been above 60 km/h since there's 65,000 AADT, lights from westlink onto M2/M5, onto single carraigeway from end of M2 to Toome (that's always slow), then single road going through Dungiven onto Derry.

What you are saying is impossible without breaking the speed limit.

Going your route to Cardonagh would be a lot longer than the present A5 and would cost much more in petrol and car depreciation. That is unless you know a magic route, and are cutting from Lisburn to Aldgrove along the seven mile straight, onto Antrim and then onto the M2 at Randalstown (but yes done this one too when going to Derry and it's really slow and not worth it).

As an add/on the only bit you can cut time on is by turning left in Emyvale village (when heading to Dublin) and heading to Glaslough. Then in Glaslough heading out the R185 and cutting across to the old Armagh road then rejoining the N2 at the bottom of the hill, farside of Monaghan town (about 6 km from Monaghan bypass). It can shave 5 minutes from the journey on peak times.

Well said and now we know where to get our directions from

section4

Having said that there is a lot of International Fund for Ireland money wasted in this country, a wasteful Airport in West Donegal and the Mulroy Bridge, while here is a project that would really benefit everyone on both sides of the North West Border.[/QUOTE]

this is very true, and all the Donegal Public county council Service offices strung all over the county

in actual fact i think concentrating on a rail service to dublin would be much better

Technique

The Government is provide scaled-down funding for a cross-border road project, which was deferred in this week's capital expenditure programme.
Transport projects were significantly affected by the capital expenditure programme




The Government has committed itself to a scaled-down funding plan for the A5 cross-border road project which was deferred in this week's capital expenditure programme.
The original plan had been to co-fund the entire project with the British government.
At a meeting with Northern Ireland's First and Deputy First Minister on the fringes of the Presidential inauguration today, Taoiseach Enda Kenny agreed to fund the project for €50m in 2015 and 2016.
Full details will be announced at a North-South ministerial meeting next week.

I'm not sure what this will mean? Will there be a shorter dual-carraigeway? Will the present road be upgraded?

Flibbles

<SNIP>

The A5 cancellation was expected really. It would have done a lot of good for Donegal, and we can't have that.



Mod edit: Stick to the topic please

slimboyfat

<SNIP>

Mod edit: Another off topic post

muffler

Lads you all know what the topic is. If you want to discuss something else then feel free to start a new thread.

mistermouse

I don't see it as a given right to have a good road here, but it is a good investment to the state in both directions. And given that we do not have any other infrastructure it was undoubtedly the best option for the government, half paid for and fully maintained by the North/UK.

How much revenue did Dublin City earn from Tyrone's All Ireland appearances for example, just an example of how the state can earn from good links.

Donegal was shafted in the 60's when it was the only county that I know of had its rail network removed. We've not even being playing second fiddle to other parts of Ireland. We also suffered significant economic issues due to the troubles and being reliant on sterling difference etc. If any area of the Republic of Ireland deserves special status, Donegal does.

I think the current govt parties never liked NI or the fact that they had poor representation here in Donegal (Labours own fault in recent elections)

We have little hope of them seeing the investment or merits of this road

NIMAN

Donegal is the poor relation in RoI, and seems to get a poor share of the monies from central Government.

Derry is the poor relation in NI, and seems to get a poor share of the monies from central Government.

Result, this road improvement was probably doomed from the start.

md23040

It is heartening that the Northern politicans are agreed on some sort of strategy to keep this proposal together (this is a big change) and IMO it looks like the original proposal from the Dept Regional Development NI will probably take shape as a revision (email circulated by DRDNI 2007)

A5 Omagh Throughpass (£10m) and the A5/N14 Strabane-Lifford Link (£3m). In Annex B of the Public Consultation document, Roads Service is proposing £130m of improvements on the A5 between L'Derry and Victoria Bridge, including bypasses of New Buildings, Magheramason, Strabane and Sion Mills.

This would be a good start although it would be a pity if something like the Newry By-Pass was built around Omagh and then later this was changed to a Dual (in the example of Newry) because the bypass was eventually seen not to be fit for the purpose.

Btw the highest AADT after the A1 Newry border is the Strabane/Lifford road with over 19,290 followed by Buncrana road Derry with 18,250 then Aughnacloy at 9,020 (2007 data). Any sort of improvement to this horrendous route is welcome.

GetWithIt

firemansam4 wrote: »

Just a quick note on this subject - We went down to Tramore in Waterford earlier this year and there is a fantastic toll free motorway all the way down to Waterford from Dublin.
I just had a look at a site that gives the respective populations for different counties in Ireland...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irish_counties_by_population

And from what I can see here The population of Donegal is far more than that of Waterford. Now I know that that said Motorway passes by Kilkenny and Carlow but If you factor the Populations of Derry, Tyrone and Monaghan into the equation then there would be a much better case for a motorway this direction

Edit: Just noticed this link was posted in the last post

The Transport Minister at the time of the Waterford route was local FF TD Martin Cullen.

The problem for Donegal is that the politicians that have been elected here were focused on more parochial projects. There are plenty of bridges, airports, and Sports complexs the length and breath of the County. That's just the way things are. You voted those clowns in, and judging by the current Town and County Councils, still do.

yourpics

Disappointing news that this project has been cancelled. It would have generated employment thereby reducing the social welfare bill, increasing the tax take and increasing spending in the local economy. And upon completion, we would have had the long term benefit of a safer route to Dublin.