Teen Lying!

LegacyUser

Hi everybody!
My husband and I are at our wits end dealing with our 13 year old girl. She lies to us bout the most ridiculous things, and will keep denying or silent in the face of obvious evidence.
This morning again, we are all wound up to an extreme level, I'll give you a taste of what happened to give you an idea of the situation

Yesterday night around 10 p.m. my husband was looking for the sweets he had bought the day before, which I had put in a drawer. He got mad with not finding them, and then of course we thought of our daughter taking them without asking permission, as she has done it often. So he went calmly to ask her (she was already in bed) if she had taken them, and that he just wanted the truth. She kept denying it, then said he could keep looking etc. We said we would ground her indefinitely if she didn't owe up, since we are absolutely fed up of her lying.
I went then to give her a second chance, but she kept silent, which is a sure sign she is lying!
In the morning, I gave her a third chance, and said that if she gave me the packet, she would not get punished.

During breakfast, her father asked her again about them. He started calm then got mad at her evasion of the truth and silence/ mumbling.
She had put the (nearly empty!) bag of Haribos in my room, without telling me, but still couldn't bring herself to say the word "I took the sweets", which would have got her off. She preferred staying silent, saying se couldn't say it, crying etc.

She lies about such petty things several times a week, at least we catch her that often. We feel we cannot trust her at all, that later when serious things happen, she will still lie by omission, stay silent, or deny till the death. Dishonesty is a horrible trait in my opinion.
She's said she's too afraid of consequences, but we have never got that angry or violent. She knows the consequences are far worse for lying than for misbehaving in our house.
Does she lack moral fibre?
How can we ever trust her?

I know putting the foot down to such an extent, i.e not even bringing her to sport, no birthdays or afternoons in town with friends, will only make her rebellious and push her away.

My husband feels we have to, that it needs to be dealt with very seriously. She has lied about more serious things also, and it's a matter of time before the normal teen problems (binge drinking, smoking, etc) make an appearance around her anyway.
We are generally quite strict parents (I'm from a country where slapping is not outlawed!), so it's not the result of sloppy overly-liberal parenting!
Our daughter is an extremely happy teen, with many friends and loved family, very successful at school and in her hobbies, always very polite and pleasant to everybody. I would have to say I'm very proud of her, except for this!

Please advise me also on negociating with my very angry husband, I feel the punishment he's proposing would be counter-productive!

Thanks in advance!

ppink

From some experience with this I would be seeking professional help ASAP for this girl and your family. We had a very similar situation with a family member who at a similar age started this lying business. His mother tried everything, all sorts of talking, explaining, punishing etc and nothing worked. It is to the point that he is not welcome in my home ever.
If he said it was night time you could not even rely on that to be true and again it was over the most stupid of things but built up to significant lies and threatened to divide the entire family.

I am not trying to scare you but I would be looking for professional help to try to resolve this.

LegacyUser

Wow, you ARE scaring me! My sister also said some psychological help might be good. I generally tend to think that professional help can make things worse, i.e. building problems up etc. But I'm willing to discuss it with m husband...

I don't know much about the services, I suppose I could ring my health clinic...Though public care might take very long in starting? Do you have an idea of how much would an appointment ( or a series of appointments?!) with a private counsellor be?

I think family therapy would be better, as I know they might just believe her if she says we're too strict, etc, without a counter-argument!

LegacyUser

Just realised I've put a ridiculous smilie by my post. Any way of removing it, mods?

saa

Thanks for posting here, I would agree for all three of you to talk to someone would be the best option as tension is being caused by both parties and you cannot just achieve good communication instantly when there is a problem.

Your daughter should not be lying but she will, that actually isn't the problem here its a strong relationship that needs to be built, even with that she will lie but there will not be the outbursts of confrontation and hopefully it won't get out of hand.

I will be honest with you I was worried reading this post that she was stealing large amounts of money, or shouting or hitting someone but a bag of sweets is actually quite a normal thing that happens, she might not of wanted to ask you and this will become more apparent as she begins to shape how she wants to operate in this world and communicate with you versus your view on how that should happen so flexibility is quite important.

I think you should have talked to her as if it wasn't a big deal, just so communication would not shut down, I think her Father entering her bedroom (angry) was completely inappropriate. Her bedroom should be a safe place as should yours, if you disrespect her boundaries she will do the same. Show her disappointment not anger.

So that night of the confrontation, which 10pm is far too late to be disrupting anyone nevermind a child/young woman, she would not be able to actually explain that she was sorry if she felt intimidated, if one of you want to talk to her you should be at the same level, not one of you standing up and the child sitting.

The issue should of been resolved at the time calmly by just knocking in to see if she's okay and asking in passing oh yeah (name) did you see the sweets that were in the drawer, she probably won't want to say anything at this point so you can say well if you had some thats okay but next time just ask or give her a limit on how many sweets she can take, if she's not allowed any sweets without asking then she will rebel against that if shes not comfortable asking.


So this carried on until breakfast, she did feel bad for taking them and her way of making things better was putting what ever she could back, I bet she didnt know this would happen and like many young people they cannot articulate themselves very well so her actions were apologetic she did not say anything to you because she seems scared and very uncomfortable talking

This is why family mediation would really be the answer here,
Avoid anger as she will only show anger back or bottle up the anger she has been receiving. This does not mean she is lacking in morals it just means some boundaries have to be constructed in relation to communication and various other things like the sweets instance, if it is a big bag of sweets in a family home no one person should claim them, if everyone knew they could have 5 at a time there would not be the tension over ownership.

What's important now is why she took them and not why she lied but why she couldnt speak, I feel that she wants to do good which is a great sign you should work of.


I think you must talk to your husband when he has calmed down, if you see her taking sweets as a betrayal then this will isolate your daughter from you two and if this carries on there is the possibility she will not want to talk to you when she moves out, if you want to enforce your own beliefs without listening to hers. Its also important to note if you are coming from a different cultural that is more of a conservative background and you are bringing your child up in Ireland she will be much more liberal and you cannot stop that if that is the case.

January

tearingourhairout wrote: »

Just realised I've put a ridiculous smilie by my post. Any way of removing it, mods?

Done

Jerri Jordan

Peronally I feel that it is wrong to control food in a family household unless your teen has a weight problem and is binge eating. I buy my shopping and no one in my house has to explain what they are or arnt taking from the presses or fridges foodwise. I think it is very controlling to do so.sorry but thats just my opinion.
I grew up in a household where you did not have to ask could you have food. I know a woman who married a man who put locks on the cupboards and hid food from the children. Everyone was horrified that the mother allowed this to go on. Its stifling and controlling.
why is a packet of sweets such a huge issue, i cant imagine going into my childs bedroom and giving her the third degree over something so trivial.
Teenagers tell fibs all the time, as they get older and if they have a good supportive homelife they will grow out of it.
If she is telling dangerous lies then thats a problem.
My advice is to lighten up. If a packet of sweets cause such a drama then maybe you and your husband need to look to yourselfs and your own issues. she just sounds like a normal; 13 year old. probably living on her nerves wondering when you two are going to blow up again over nothing.

fatmammycat

I doubt very much the OP is angry about sweets, but about the lying thereafter. She was clearly just using it as an example.
OP, when there's no argument or conflicted moment I would sit her down and explaing in plain calm language that the consequence of lying is worse than the consequence of doing the wrong thing. 13 is still very young and they're just finding their way at this point. Stick with it, and hopefully the message will make sense to her eventually.

ppink

tearingourhairout wrote: »

Wow, you ARE scaring me! My sister also said some psychological help might be good. I generally tend to think that professional help can make things worse, i.e. building problems up etc. But I'm willing to discuss it with m husband...

I don't know much about the services, I suppose I could ring my health clinic...Though public care might take very long in starting? Do you have an idea of how much would an appointment ( or a series of appointments?!) with a private counsellor be?

I think family therapy would be better, as I know they might just believe her if she says we're too strict, etc, without a counter-argument!

I am sorry, I did not mean to scare you. I am kind of going not so much on the bag of sweets, which in itself is small, but on you saying you catch her lying about stupid things several times a week. It just sounds so familiar.
I think if you can contact some councillors they will advise on the best approach...maybe get a recommendation from you GP? your daughter may need time to discuss issues alone before you and your husband are brought in? I dont know about it making problems worse. I am not professional in that area but I do think it is important she has a voice to express her issues.

Fittle

Is it just me or is this post WAY OTT - someone advising psychological intervention for a hormonal teenager because she robbed her dads sweets and was afraid to tell him

phasers

Agreed Fittle, it all seems like a huge overreaction on both sides. It seems like standard teenage behavoiur to me, I went through a similar phase when I was younger.

Rochester

phasers wrote: »

Agreed Fittle, it all seems like a huge overreaction on both sides. It seems like standard teenage behavoiur to me, I went through a similar phase when I was younger.

I agree, there are much bigger battles out there and I know she's lying but with two of you standing over her threatening to ground her over a packet of sweets, I think I'd lie too to be honest. I am a parent of a 13 year old girl by the way.

Das Kitty

She sounds like she's scared to me frankly.

Teenagers do silly things like take things they shouldn't from their parents. There's rarely malice in it. It sounds like she is afraid of what will happen if she owns up.

If she were my daughter I would try to have a frank chat with her with no accusations, just to see where she is coming from. People rarely do things for no reason.

As for how to deal with your husband's temper, only he can change that. In my experience having shouting and anger at home is not pleasant for anyone.

Daisy M

My daughter aged 11 can lie so well its unbelievable. I saw her doing something the other night, she didnt know I was watching and she denied it when I told her I was watching and saw what she did she tried to change the story to make it seem as if I had misunderstood. It was a trivial matter that I really didnt care about but I do kind of worry that I wont be able to know when she is lying and wont be able to always trust her. I believe the reason my daughter wont admit to a lie or tells a lie is because she hates to be wrong she really has to believe she is always right or knows best and she doesnt take that from the wind! Otherwise she is a lovely girl kind and loving generous to a fault and when given time to think about her behaviour she can see it silly. My 14 yr old son doesnt really lie but like your daughter if he took something sweets from the cupboard late at night he would lie lie lie and deny deny deny.J
JERRI JORDAN as to your point of food not been controlled in a family I dont agree with you. I should be able to do my shopping for the week and know that whatever biscuits/treats I buy for the weekend or to last the week wont be gone by the next day and most of it eaten by one person. Of course healthy food is not limited in our house, but I dont think it would be a good idea to allow my children to fill up on sugary snacks before bedtime, I doubt they would get to sleep for hours.
PPINK, I think you may be over reacting a bit to the ops post, I understand that this is due to your own negative experiences with a family member but the ops daughter has only taken some sweets from her own home she isnt meddling in crime or banned substances or causing danger to others.
OP I do understand your fustration, I think her constant lying is giving her your attention and to some extent a little control/power over you. Try letting the small things slide make it clear that you wont however leave bigger things unpunished. Start focusing on her positives. I think if she was lacking in moral fiber she would not have friends, family would find her difficult in lots of ways and she definetely wouldnt be polite and plesant to everyone. Dont give her some long hard punishment give her something to fit the crime get her to buy your husband a replacement pack of sweets and do a chore she cant stand maybe get her to clean a few windows and leave it at that. Best of luck.

Ayla

Tearingourhairout wrote: »

...She's said she's too afraid of consequences, but we have never got that angry or violent. ...My husband feels we have to, that it needs to be dealt with very seriously.
...We are generally quite strict parents (I'm from a country where slapping is not outlawed!), so it's not the result of sloppy overly-liberal parenting!
...Please advise me also on negociating with my very angry husband, I feel the punishment he's proposing would be counter-productive!

This is the part of your thread which perked my interest. You say on one hand that "you're quite strict" (presumably using slapping where it's perceived as necessary), and you mention the anger & force that comes from (justifiable) frustration, but then you can't seem to understand why your daughter would be scared of consequences?

Everyone - teenagers and adults alike - make rash decisions and mistakes. Without knowing any more of the situation I wouldn't feel right assuming your daughter has any sort of pyschological issues that need addressing. But I would suggest that if she's admitted she's scared of consequences then you immediately deal with that.

LegacyUser

Thanks for the quick replies!
The packet of sweets is SOOO not the issue! It was just an example, though we are fairly concerned with healthy eating and try to limit junk food etc to some extent. She has lied last week in plain view of the evidence also about having money or not for an outing,and earlier about make-up, about losing her phone (she hadn't, and pretended she had!), even about taking money from my wallet! So it's a habit of lying which is concerning us.

Yes, we are strict, though not ever violent or unreasonable. We are certainly not conservative, I come from a bohemian Parisian background, but there are of course principles we believe in, such as honesty and trust within families! We do communicate about everything, she talks to us a lot, is lively in her description of school, friends, etc. but she always has been a secret child, which I respect.

I don't see why entering her room after knocking is such a big no-no, she is still only 13 and if we need to discuss things with her, then I think it's fine to go up. She has a very big bedroom, studies up there, does everything there, and has a lot of privacy. The fact that it was late is not good, I'll agree.

My husband came in quietly asking her if she had seen the sweets, even though we suspected she had taken them, then got angry at her denial.Yes, he was wrong to lose his temper, there is very little I can do, as a poster has mentioned, about his temper.

Yet, are we not allowed to express anger, in a reasonable way though, or disapproval anymore, only disappointment? The latter is what I feel, my husband feels anger (fiery Irish temper, don't kill me for a jokey stereotype please!). He does an awful lot for her, drives her everywhere at any time, and has a stressful job, so yes, he feels very let down and angry about not being able to trust her when we bend over backwards to give her ( and her sister) a lively life.

Her sister btw, who is ten, always owns up immediately and doesn't get into trouble, so she can see we're not dragons...

I gave her a third chance in this case to owe up with no consequences, and yes she did return the (nearly empty!) bag, but she could still not say the words! Why????
I want to help her to be able to admit a failing or a misbehavior without being afraid of us, and we talked a lot about it, but she doesn't know herself why she can't bring herself to tell the truth...
She must be afraid of us in some way, you are right, but how can we hit that middle ground between letting her run wild and lie her way through life and antagonizing her?

LegacyUser

Sorry just to clarify: we didn't threaten to ground her over the sweets, but over the bold-faced lying. And we didn't go up together or even stand over her, my husband just stood at the door, and so did I later...
When I say we are strict, I mean that we have certain rules and expectations (which are quite high, it's true), and we do believe our children should be ruling the roost. We do not slap her(except once two years ago I slapped her on the arm, my husband never did), and I nearly never raise my voice (my mother did it, and I hate it).
I'm interested in Psychology and Philosophy so I always try to have a fair and reasonable discussion about motives and consequences. She couldn't be that afraid, especially since lying is the only thing that has brought her into trouble.
Somehow I hink it's part of her growing up, trying to be independent in some way, having 'secrets' (of ridiculous content even), things which we do not control etc. That might be the reason she does it...

Morag

If you are worried that she is a habitual liar and how that can grow into a huge issue for her and impact very negatively on her in the future then do talk to your family dr and get a referral to get her an appointment to talk to someone and see if it's a important issue or just being a teen, either way she will get help.

LegacyUser

Yes, Sharrow, that's my worry. She also lies to her friends, inventing boyfriends for months at a time, when there are many boys chasing her, and she's a beautiful confident girl, who doesn't need to. She is a bit of a fantasist in that way.
Again, I asked her why she does it, when she obviously doesn't need their attention, she is very popular etc. She can't explain it!!!

Justask

What punishment does your husband want to hand out?

It looks to me that if she is lying about something as small as a packet of sweets ( among other things) she is scared.

LegacyUser

Well grounding her mainly, for example Twilight 4 is coming out soon and she was going to go with friends...Also he doesn't want to keep driving her and picking her up from activities twice a week.
I think I've dealt with the fear aspect earlier, but it may be a factor, though I think it's more compulsive. As I've mentioned, she even lies to her friends, when there isn't that factor involved.

Justask

Tearingourhairout wrote: »

.Also he doesn't want to keep driving her and picking her up from activities twice a week.
.

I dont know a parent who isnt a taxi for their child, its part of parenting.

Maybe have a chat with your gp

fatmammycat

Out of curiosity, I asked my niece tonight why she lied constantly as a teenager- she is now 20 and had a terrific and open relationship with her mom and dad. Her response- 'Don't know really, I always thought 'sh1t, I'm in so much trouble I'll lie'" and I said, 'even though you got in so much crap when you lied?' And she said, 'yeah, but sometimes I got away with it, so, y'know, it was worth it.'
Phase she clearly grew out of. I don't think you need a gp or anything else, I think some kids just avoid conflict until they're old enough to learn how to deal with it.

LegacyUser

Yes, he acts as taxi many other times during the week, but these four runs are not absolutely necessary.
I was hoping it was just a phase, but it's been nearly a year and a half.
One of her funny lies was when she denied plucking her eyebrows, when half of one of them was missing! We had to laugh at that one....

carfiosaoorl

OP- I have 10 almost 11 yr old daughter who does the same thing. She will lie and blame anyone around her to get herself out of trouble. It drives me crazy. I point it out to her everytime she does it in the hopes that it will change the behaviour but I havent punished her for it, yet anyway. I think that either she just hates getting into trouble or its a personality trait that she isnt able to help. I hope she grows out of it and I dont have to start punishing her for it.
I understand that your daughter is older than mine and that you might feel a punishment is in order but if you do I wouldnt be too harsh. Canceling her trip to the cinema to see twilight with her friends seems very harsh but that is coming from a twilight fan *wink*. I hope everything works out for you all.

saa

Is it just me or is there a lot of stigma around family mediation,
Its not about sweets, its not about lying its about the anger and the inability to communicate.

Do not hold the fear that talking makes things worse, this idea has destroyed family life in this country for so long.

Mountjoy Mugger

The more often she's "caught" lying, the sooner she'll grow out of it.

IMO, it's a phase.

6328

One word: HORMONES. Every young girl at that age does similar things to what you have stated there.

Emer911

Gees, OP. She's 13. Were you never 13? Insecure, hormonal, uncertain about everything.

...and the bad news is, this phase is called being a teenager and will probably last for about another 3 or 4 years (My 17 still has occasional lapses of 'I didn't do it!')

Some words of wisdom I was given a few year ago that stayed with me:

"You raise them to be sweet little kids. Then the teens kick in and they become HORRID young people that you can't stand to be in the same room as. You just have to hold on, trust you laid a good foundation, and wait for them to come back to you. They will. Eventually."

So... patience is the key word. Try to control your actions (you can't control anyone else's). Good luck!

superstoner90

Tearingourhairout wrote: »

Hi everybody!
My husband and I are at our wits end dealing with our 13 year old girl. She lies to us bout the most ridiculous things, and will keep denying or silent in the face of obvious evidence.
This morning again, we are all wound up to an extreme level, I'll give you a taste of what happened to give you an idea of the situation

Yesterday night around 10 p.m. my husband was looking for the sweets he had bought the day before, which I had put in a drawer. He got mad with not finding them, and then of course we thought of our daughter taking them without asking permission, as she has done it often. So he went calmly to ask her (she was already in bed) if she had taken them, and that he just wanted the truth. She kept denying it, then said he could keep looking etc. We said we would ground her indefinitely if she didn't owe up, since we are absolutely fed up of her lying.
I went then to give her a second chance, but she kept silent, which is a sure sign she is lying!
In the morning, I gave her a third chance, and said that if she gave me the packet, she would not get punished.

During breakfast, her father asked her again about them. He started calm then got mad at her evasion of the truth and silence/ mumbling.
She had put the (nearly empty!) bag of Haribos in my room, without telling me, but still couldn't bring herself to say the word "I took the sweets", which would have got her off. She preferred staying silent, saying se couldn't say it, crying etc.

She lies about such petty things several times a week, at least we catch her that often. We feel we cannot trust her at all, that later when serious things happen, she will still lie by omission, stay silent, or deny till the death. Dishonesty is a horrible trait in my opinion.
She's said she's too afraid of consequences, but we have never got that angry or violent. She knows the consequences are far worse for lying than for misbehaving in our house.
Does she lack moral fibre?
How can we ever trust her?

I know putting the foot down to such an extent, i.e not even bringing her to sport, no birthdays or afternoons in town with friends, will only make her rebellious and push her away.

My husband feels we have to, that it needs to be dealt with very seriously. She has lied about more serious things also, and it's a matter of time before the normal teen problems (binge drinking, smoking, etc) make an appearance around her anyway.
We are generally quite strict parents (I'm from a country where slapping is not outlawed!), so it's not the result of sloppy overly-liberal parenting!
Our daughter is an extremely happy teen, with many friends and loved family, very successful at school and in her hobbies, always very polite and pleasant to everybody. I would have to say I'm very proud of her, except for this!

Please advise me also on negociating with my very angry husband, I feel the punishment he's proposing would be counter-productive!

Thanks in advance!

just chill-ax

starbelgrade

Teenagers nick stuff all the time & lie about stuff. Not all teenagers, but it's still fairly normal behaviour for a teenager. More often than not, they grow out of it & turn out to be well rounded adults.. rebelling & getting into trouble are all rites of passage and should be expected when you have kids.

How you deal with it is a different issue, but an adult freaking out with a kid over a packet of sweets is to me a little bit disturbing to say the least.