Messi Or Ronaldo?

MaroonAndGreen

Richard Hillman wrote: »

In terms of the World Player of the year prize, there may be a little bit of a backlash on Messi after winning the WC player of the tournament. It really didnt go down very well with a lot of people

Maybe so but wont them votes go to James Rodriguez and not Ronaldo?

bucketybuck

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Maybe so but wont them votes go to James Rodriguez and not Ronaldo?

Nobody should be voting for Rodriguez in the Ballon d'or, a few good games in the world cup does not make you the best player in the world.

Rayne Wooney

Was Messi better than Ronaldo last year? No, was he better than him this year so far? No, and I don't think the next few months could put him ahead.

There were better performers at the World Cup than Messi too, if it's between the two it has to be Ronaldo.

If it's not Ronaldo, maybe Lahm should get it, great consistency over the past year, captains teams to a domestic double and World Cup

TheCitizen

Messi.

prettyboy81

Messi

Billy86

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

If it's not Ronaldo, maybe Lahm should get it, great consistency over the past year, captains teams to a domestic double and World Cup

Sadly though, there is a strong bias towards goalscorers in these awards and you also have to be very noticeably better than Messi to win it over him, which is a bit if a joke in all really, but it is what it is. As the World Cup showed, even being noticeably better than Messi does not need essayist mean being given the award over him... it's really more down to marketing than what is being played out on the pitch for the most part.

darced

This post has been deleted.

Billy86

darced wrote: »

Whoever shone at the world cup between the two will and should get it i.e Messi

Ronnie flopped on the biggest stage so it will be unlikely he can retain it.

Then give it to James Rodriguez.

Kirby

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I agree Ronaldo was poor and Messi had a much better tournament. No question. But it's worth remembering Argentina had better players to support him. Messi had Di Maria...... Ronaldo had Nani.

CSF

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Ballon D'Or awards are probably what is going to be the crucial criteria used to evaluate/compare these guys careers when they are retired. Currently in that regard its Messi 4-2 Ronaldo. And Messi is 6/4 to win his 5th this year and Ronaldo is 11/4.

Id suspect Messi will win it because of his superior showing at the World Cup. That would put him 5-2 ahead in the Ballon D'Or wins column and you would imagine that 5-2 is a pretty unassailable lead.

This coming season really is a big one in the whole Messi v Ronaldo debate. Messi has been playing absolutely exceptional in the last year or two, admittedly below his best but still amazing. Ronaldo is id imagine playing to his peak at the moment and its still very close between them, for the first time ever in their careers it seems as though Ronaldo will now be playing with the better team, lets see how that affects this rivalry.

Its all very interesting.

If Messi wins it this year (barring an utterly remarkable first 4 months of the season) ahead of Ronaldo, they should just pack it up and stop having the award.

Over the last 8 months (and last year too) Ronaldo has reached levels of performance that I never thought possible in a footballer. The absolute crucial player in a Champions League win, unbelievable in La Liga, but the country he played for in the World Cup are **** so we should vote Messi? Scandalous.

CSF

darced wrote: »

Whoever shone at the world cup between the two will and should get it i.e Messi

Ronnie flopped on the biggest stage so it will be unlikely he can retain it.

Why do you think this? There was already an award for that and Messi won it.

Billy86

Kirby wrote: »

I agree Ronaldo was poor and Messi had a much better tournament. No question. But it's worth remembering Argentina had better players to support him. Messi had Di Maria...... Ronaldo had Nani.

It's a fair point as outside of Coentrao (who only played 30 mins or so due to injury) , not one player on that Portuguese team would be a certain starter for Argentina. Possibly a CM beside Mascherano or CB beside Garay, but even those would be far from a given.

Also then compare Bosnia/Nigeria/Iran with Germany/Ghana/USA as opposition, and it becomes obvious why it is silly to hand out annual awards based on a month long tournament.

Rayne Wooney

There were better performers at the World Cup than Messi so if you're basing it on that tournament alone neither him or Ronaldo should win it

This year Ronaldo has been the best of the two without question.

eagle eye

rarnes1 wrote: »

This year Ronaldo has been the best of the two without question.

Its only August, lots of football to come between here and Christmas.

TheCitizen

CSF wrote: »

If Messi wins it this year (barring an utterly remarkable first 4 months of the season) ahead of Ronaldo, they should just pack it up and stop having the award.

Over the last 8 months (and last year too) Ronaldo has reached levels of performance that I never thought possible in a footballer. The absolute crucial player in a Champions League win, unbelievable in La Liga, but the country he played for in the World Cup are **** so we should vote Messi? Scandalous.

OTT hyperbole as per usual.

yohan the great

CSF wrote: »

If Messi wins it this year (barring an utterly remarkable first 4 months of the season) ahead of Ronaldo, they should just pack it up and stop having the award.

Over the last 8 months (and last year too) Ronaldo has reached levels of performance that I never thought possible in a footballer. The absolute crucial player in a Champions League win, unbelievable in La Liga, but the country he played for in the World Cup are **** so we should vote Messi? Scandalous.

Absolutely ****e in the final. And if the Portugal players were so bad, how come they created so many chances for him to miss against Ghana?

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

Its only August, lots of football to come between here and Christmas.

I know that but we can't judge on what hasn't happened yet.

So far this year, Ronaldo has been the better player.

Rayne Wooney

Even if Messi scores a goal a game up until the end of October I don't know how he could get ahead of Ronaldo, who will likely do near enough the same at worst, over the past year

yohan the great

I'd nearly give it to Robben. Best player in the world cup IMO and the only bayern player actually trying to score when they played Real Madrid

Rayne Wooney

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Even if Messi scores a goal a game up until the end of October I don't know how he could get ahead of Ronaldo, who will likely do near enough the same at worst, over the past year

Messi is 13/5 and Ronaldo 3/1 for the Ballon, so for anyone as confident as you its easy money

Rayne Wooney

rarnes1 wrote: »

Messi is 13/5 and Ronaldo 3/1 for the Ballon, so for anyone as confident as you its easy money

When did I say I was confident?

Rayne Wooney

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

When did I say I was confident?

Even if Messi scores a goal a game up until the end of October I don't know how he could get ahead of Ronaldo

Surely not the words on someone that thinks Messi has an evens shot of bettering Ronaldo's year?

Btw, it wasn't a pop at you. I'm thinking it's decent odds myself tbh.

Rayne Wooney

rarnes1 wrote: »

Surely not the words on someone that thinks Messi has an evens shot of bettering Ronaldo's year?

Btw, it wasn't a pop at you. I'm thinking it's decent odds myself tbh.

That's assuming the competition is one where the best player wins, there is still a chance that Messi could win it somewhat undeservedly like at the World Cup

So I wouldn't be confident that Ronaldo is going to win, I would be confident in saying that Ronaldo has been better over the last year and that Messi would have to do something incredible in the space of 2 months to be clear cut favourite ahead of Ronaldo at this stage

Talib Fiasco

Funny that people think that the Ballon D'Or is decided already. I recall the vast majority of people saying Messi would win it last year this time 12 months ago only for Ronaldo's playoff performances by and large swinging people's opinion. I think debating over this now is stupid.

The fact is both players are pretty neck and neck goal wise, Ronaldo did it in the CL and Messi did it in the WC while they both underperformed in their opposites. It's anyone's to win. I think Lahm should get it personally as it would be good for the award itself, but Messi and Ronaldo are too popular among their peers for a newcomer to win it I feel

Talib Fiasco

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

Funny that people think that the Ballon D'Or is decided already. I recall the vast majority of people saying Messi would win it last year this time 12 months ago only for Ronaldo's playoff performances by and large swinging people's opinion. I think debating over this now is stupid.

The fact is both players are pretty neck and neck goal wise, Ronaldo did it in the CL and Messi did it in the WC while they both underperformed in their opposites. It's anyone's to win. I think Lahm should get it personally as it would be good for the award itself, but Messi and Ronaldo are too popular among their peers for a newcomer to win it I feel

Why is it stupid? It's only a bit of a debate, no big deal.



Would be boring enough if we couldn't discuss

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

CSF wrote: »

If Messi wins it this year (barring an utterly remarkable first 4 months of the season) ahead of Ronaldo, they should just pack it up and stop having the award.

Over the last 8 months (and last year too) Ronaldo has reached levels of performance that I never thought possible in a footballer. The absolute crucial player in a Champions League win, unbelievable in La Liga, but the country he played for in the World Cup are **** so we should vote Messi? Scandalous.

Messi from '10-'12 was better than Ronaldo over the past 8 months.

Liam O

THFC wrote: »

Messi from '10-'12 was better than Ronaldo over the past 8 months.

Ronaldo of 10-12 was on the same level as Messi. People are acting like he only started playing this well in the last year. With Ancellotti at the helm Madrid are less of a circus than in a long time and the team have finally gotten their act together and now Ronaldo is finally getting the praise he deserves and yet people are still trying to bring up past seasons from Messi.

Talib Fiasco

rarnes1 wrote: »

Why is it stupid? It's only a bit of a debate, no big deal.



Would be boring enough if we couldn't discuss

Well some people on here can't have "a bit of a debate" really now can they...

Talib Fiasco

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

Well some people on here can't have "a bit of a debate" really now can they...

Don't put yourself down like that

Talib Fiasco

rarnes1 wrote: »

Don't put yourself down like that

I'm really struggling here man...it's like this:

Skylinehead

Liam O wrote: »

Ronaldo of 10-12 was on the same level as Messi.

I only saw one person smash scoring records in that time, and it wasn't Ronaldo. Not even close.

Billy86

Skylinehead wrote: »

I only saw one person smash scoring records in that time, and it wasn't Ronaldo. Not even close.

In my mind they've pretty much been on par over the last 4-5 years all things considered, but let's not pretend that Messi had anything less than the best service any forward/false nine/striker has ever seen in the history of the game.

Talib Fiasco

Liam O wrote: »

Ronaldo of 10-12 was on the same level as Messi. People are acting like he only started playing this well in the last year. With Ancellotti at the helm Madrid are less of a circus than in a long time and the team have finally gotten their act together and now Ronaldo is finally getting the praise he deserves and yet people are still trying to bring up past seasons from Messi.

2009-10:
Messi - 47 goals, 11 assists
Ronaldo - 33 goals, 7 assists
*Ronaldo played less games but still not even close

2010-2011:
Messi - 53 goals, 24 assists
Ronaldo - 53 goals, 13 assists
*Fair enough that was very close

2011-2012:
Messi - 73 goals, 28 assists
Ronaldo 60 goals, 15 assists
*Messi clearly on another level this year...not debatable

Overall:
Messi - 173 goals, 63 assists
Ronaldo - 146 goals, 35 assists

*In all bloody fairness it wasn't close...people bang on about Messi being a forward and Ronaldo being a winger (which is a bullsh*t argument btw) yet Messi's assists trump him even more so than his goal tally...wingers are supposed to create goals for forwards right?

Gringo180

Billy86 wrote: »

In my mind they've pretty much been on par over the last 4-5 years all things considered, but let's not pretend that Messi had anything less than the best service any forward/false nine/striker has ever seen in the history of the game.

Ronaldo had Ozil teeing him up at that time, arguably playing the best football of his life and topped the assists charts last season in europe for the last 3 seasons, Ronaldo had every bit the service Messi had, not to mention Messi scored a lot of goals from going on mazey runs from outside the box. I love the 2 of them, 2 amazing athletes but no doubt about it when both are at there best Messi is top dog.

Liam O

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

2009-10:
Messi - 47 goals, 11 assists
Ronaldo - 33 goals, 7 assists
*Ronaldo played less games but still not even close

2010-2011:
Messi - 53 goals, 24 assists
Ronaldo - 53 goals, 13 assists
*Fair enough that was very close

2011-2012:
Messi - 73 goals, 28 assists
Ronaldo 60 goals, 15 assists
*Messi clearly on another level this year...not debatable

Overall:
Messi - 173 goals, 63 assists
Ronaldo - 146 goals, 35 assists

*In all bloody fairness it wasn't close...people bang on about Messi being a forward and Ronaldo being a winger (which is a bullsh*t argument btw) yet Messi's assists trump him even more so than his goal tally...wingers are supposed to create goals for forwards right?

I love that you don't give number of games played and count goals Messi scored in the Club World Cup. Of course taking some of them out and going like for like in the league makes it a lot closer and wouldn't suit your anti-Ronaldo and anything remotely to do with United narrative.

Talib Fiasco

Liam O wrote: »

I love that you don't give number of games played and count goals Messi scored in the Club World Cup. Of course taking some of them out and going like for like in the league makes it a lot closer and wouldn't suit your anti-Ronaldo and anything remotely to do with United narrative.

Messi was still clearly the better player and was emphasised by winning every award and breaking every record under the sun in that time...your last statement doesn't surprise me at all; United have nothing to do with Ronaldo vs. Messi from 2010-2012 which is the period we are discussing...but naaa it's always United isn't it.

Liam O

Gringo180 wrote: »

Ronaldo had Ozil teeing him up at that time, arguably playing the best football of his life and topped the assists charts last season in europe for the last 3 seasons, Ronaldo had every bit the service Messi had, not to mention Messi scored a lot of goals from going on mazey runs from outside the box. I love the 2 of them, 2 amazing athletes but no doubt about it when both are at there best Messi is top dog.

There's a big difference between having Ozil and having Xavi and Iniesta in their prime. This is with another out and out forward beside him too. Barca had the best team of all time during the period, Real just had a really good team with one player in the potential best of all time in their position discussion. Barca had 3, potentially 4 if Biscuits keeps up his level the rest of his career.

Iused2likebusts

Liam O wrote: »

There's a big difference between having Ozil and having Xavi and Iniesta in their prime. This is with another out and out forward beside him too. Barca had the best team of all time during the period, Real just had a really good team with one player in the potential best of all time in their position discussion. Barca had 3, potentially 4 if Biscuits keeps up his level the rest of his career.

Its what messi did/does when he gets the ball that people are basing this on.

bucketybuck

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

I think Lahm should get it personally as it would be good for the award itself, but Messi and Ronaldo are too popular among their peers for a newcomer to win it I feel

Has Lahm been better than Ronaldo this past year? (Hint: the answer is no, he hasn't been better than Ronaldo this past year)

Liam O

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Its what messi did/does when he gets the ball that people are basing this on.

And I fully respect that but you can do that without duking the stats in his favour to try and put down what Ronaldo did and has been doing for a long time.

Iused2likebusts

Liam O wrote: »

And I fully respect that but you can do that without duking the stats in his favour to try and put down what Ronaldo did and has been doing for a long time.

Both have unbelievable stats personally I wouldnt base my decision on stats.

Gringo180

Liam O wrote: »

There's a big difference between having Ozil and having Xavi and Iniesta in their prime. This is with another out and out forward beside him too. Barca had the best team of all time during the period, Real just had a really good team with one player in the potential best of all time in their position discussion. Barca had 3, potentially 4 if Biscuits keeps up his level the rest of his career.

Xabi Alonso, Benzema, Kaka, Di Maria, all world class players feeding Ronaldo. Both at there best who would you rather watch? Messi for me all day long.

Talib Fiasco

bucketybuck wrote: »

Has Lahm been better than Ronaldo this past year? (Hint: the answer is no, he hasn't been better than Ronaldo this past year)

World Cup normally has a massive influence on these things and in fairness Lahm has been consistently outstanding for club and country for a long while now. Not many players if any can compete with that. I'm sure most football fans wouldn't be too upset if he won it and it would be similar to Cannavaro in 06

Billy86

Gringo180 wrote: »

Ronaldo had Ozil teeing him up at that time, arguably playing the best football of his life and topped the assists charts last season in europe for the last 3 seasons, Ronaldo had every bit the service Messi had, not to mention Messi scored a lot of goals from going on mazey runs from outside the box. I love the 2 of them, 2 amazing athletes but no doubt about it when both are at there best Messi is top dog.

Ronaldo absolutely did not have "every bit the service Messi did". Xavi/Iniesta is arguably the best midfield partnership in the history of the game, right up there with Rijkaard/Gullit, Rivera/Mazzola, Keane/Scholes, France's magic square and so on. If anything they are probably the best of the bunch, with any game they played in together almost guaranteeing 65% possession and opportunity after opportunity. As you said Messi makes plenty of his own chances, but it's not as if Ronaldo also doesn't either. One thing on this front that does irritate me is that Messi gets constant "kiddie glove" treatment in the media, completely ignoring all his shortfall inks and only for using on his successes.

If winning the WC best player award isn't a good enough example, the widespread complete ignoring of the fact that he not only looked sulky and disinterested during the extra time team talk in the final but literally walked away from it, while Ronaldo got weeks of absolute abuse for celebrating scoring in the CL final in the city he grew up in (yeah it was a bit obnoxious, but understandable... imagine Robbie Keane scoring in CL final in Croker or the Aviv for example) because "Messi is such a team player, he would never do that".

Oezil is a great player, but there is a reason he didn't look as good before or after playing with Ronaldo as he did with him. What did he have, 10 assists last season?

Billy86

Gringo180 wrote: »

Xabi Alonso, Benzema, Kaka, Di Maria, all world class players feeding Ronaldo. Both at there best who would you rather watch? Messi for me all day long.

Kaka was always quite overrated outside of 12-18 months of his peak. The rest of those guys are quality, but simply not on the level of Xavi, Iniesta, Eto'o/Villa and Yaya/Busquets, particularly when you bring g in the stability of one team and the turmoil that occurred within the other over the last few years.

My take is that Rinaldo would not have do e as well for Barca as Messi has, but Messi would not have done as well as Ronaldo has for Madrid. I actually think Ronaldo would have done better for Argentina over the last 5-6 years, though (but Messi would have done better than Rohaldo for say Germany, or another well run team with lots of talent and technique throughout).

Rayne Wooney

Gringo180 wrote: »

Xabi Alonso, Benzema, Kaka, Di Maria, all world class players feeding Ronaldo. Both at there best who would you rather watch? Messi for me all day long.

You are trying to make a fairly ridiculous argument over the last few posts tbh, are you honestly saying the team Ronaldo has around him is equal to the team Messi had? There is a world of difference, Pep's Barca will go down as one of the greatest teams of all time

Messi has played with players who will go down as some of the best in their positions of all time too, name me one player Ronaldo has played outfield with that you could say the same about who was in their peak years

Billy86

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

World Cup normally has a massive influence on these things and in fairness Lahm has been consistently outstanding for club and country for a long while now. Not many players if any can compete with that. I'm sure most football fans wouldn't be too upset if he won the award and it would be similar to Cannavaro in 06

needs merr guls.

I would like to see him we it, but only Cannavaro (kind of undeservedly, ironically enough), Sammer (once) and Beckenbauer (thrice) have won the award in its 58 year history. Part of why Der Kaiser is right up there with Maradona and Pele for my money., but that's a different discussion.

Gringo180

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Messi has played with players who will go down as some of the best in their positions of all time too, name me one player Ronaldo has played outfield with that you could say the same about who was in their peak years

Paul Scholes, Ozil, Alonso, Modric.

Billy86

Gringo180 wrote: »

Paul Scholes, Ozil, Alonso, Modric.

Only Scholes is on that list, and even then as a Man Utd fan I have to say it is borderline, especially with Ronaldo coming to his peak when he was into his mid thirties.

The other three are amongst the better/best players of their generation. Meanwhile, Xavi/Iniesta (especially as a partnership) rank among the very best of all time. Xavi especially, he's probably the best ever at what he does.