Messi Or Ronaldo?

Shanotheslayer · 23-10-2014 1:51am

Agree with the above. Reading on twitter that Messi could easily hit 40 assists this season. Suarez in instead of Pedro be will goals galore every week. Funny thing is Messi will prob still get 30+ league goals.

Too Tough To Die · 23-10-2014 6:46am

The race for goals is over, Messi is redefining a new position now. Goal a game number 10. Insane.

CSF · 23-10-2014 7:16am

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Im a devoted Messi fan, but I have to admit.... for the first time ever it looks like Ronaldo has truly got the edge.

His club form is better than Messi's. Leo's World Cup is the only thing keeping him in with a shout of winning the Ballon D'Or.

Messi has no chance of Ballon D'or this year, the fat lady is just delaying the inevitable.

marklazarcovic · 23-10-2014 8:49am

At this stage it should be messi AND ronaldo as two greatest modern players..not either or

CR 7 · 23-10-2014 8:49am

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

The race for goals is over, Messi is redefining a new position now. Goal a game number 10. Insane.

Just a shame he's around at the same time as the goal and a half a game winger.

CSF · 23-10-2014 8:59am

CR 7 wrote: »

Just a shame he's around at the same time as the goal and a half a game winger.

I do find it kinda interesting at the same time, that largely these arguments centred around goals, until Messi stopped scoring nearly as many goals as Ronaldo, and then they stopped centreing around goals.

kryogen · 23-10-2014 9:14am

The old shifting of the goal posts is nothing new really.

Ronaldo is on fire, he is the best in the world right now, Messi had his time of dominance alright, but now you have to say Ronaldo is currently ahead (I say you have to say, many, many people will disagree naturally) We are just lucky to get to see both of their careers, both will be in the discussion for GOAT and both are certainly two of the greatest to ever kick a ball already.

Seeing Ronaldo improve and get better each year since he was 17 has been a joy to watch from a personal level. It is really only the most blinkered would refuse to give him his proper respect at this stage and long may it continue

CSF · 23-10-2014 9:20am

kryogen wrote: »

The old shifting of the goal posts is nothing new really.

Ronaldo is on fire, he is the best in the world right now, Messi had his time of dominance alright, but now you have to say Ronaldo is currently ahead (I say you have to say, many, many people will disagree naturally) We are just lucky to get to see both of their careers, both will be in the discussion for GOAT and both are certainly two of the greatest to ever kick a ball already.

Seeing Ronaldo improve and get better each year since he was 17 has been a joy to watch from a personal level. It is really only the most blinkered would refuse to give him his proper respect at this stage and long may it continue

Agree completely. There is very little between them either way. When Messi was on his insane goalscoring season (maybe even 2 seasons) he had the edge, currently Ronaldo does. Upto Messi now to push it even further to regain that edge. Fascinating to watch the ceiling of what a player can do continually being pushed higher.

SantryRed · 23-10-2014 9:26am

15 goals in 7 league games. 3 hat tricks. We're only in October.

What the actual ****? :pac: Insane stat. Averaging 2.14 goals PER GAME.

3 goals in 3 CL games too.

kryogen · 23-10-2014 9:28am

CSF wrote: »

Agree completely. There is very little between them either way. When Messi was on his insane goalscoring season (maybe even 2 seasons) he had the edge, currently Ronaldo does. Upto Messi now to push it even further to regain that edge. Fascinating to watch the ceiling of what a player can do continually being pushed higher.

Thats something to take into consideration actually which is also another reason its great to have them both at the same time. If one did not have the other to drive them on would either be as good as they are?

CSF · 23-10-2014 9:30am

kryogen wrote: »

Thats something to take into consideration actually which is also another reason its great to have them both at the same time. If one did not have the other to drive them on would either be as good as they are?

Probably not.

Too Tough To Die · 23-10-2014 9:47am

CR 7 wrote: »

Just a shame he's around at the same time as the goal and a half a game winger.

Why is it a shame?

kryogen · 23-10-2014 10:01am

You would assume he means a goal a game shadow striker/number 10 is not as impressive as a goal and a half a game winger?

Too Tough To Die · 23-10-2014 10:09am

kryogen wrote: »

You would assume he means a goal a game shadow striker/number 10 is not as impressive as a goal and a half a game winger?

Did he read that in Shoot magazine? A very simplistic viewpoint.

CSF · 23-10-2014 10:11am

kryogen wrote: »

You would assume he means a goal a game shadow striker/number 10 is not as impressive as a goal and a half a game winger?

And in the interest of fairness it is worth pointing out that Ronaldo is anything but a winger. But still, Ronaldo's is ridiculously impressive. These sort of statistics for a player who isn't a centre forward is just pretty much unprecedented, and apart from Messi, they're pretty much unprecedented even for a centre forward in the modern era.

Rayne Wooney · 23-10-2014 1:19pm

so we can't judge it on goals anymore because Messi is playing as a number 10...

But we could when Messi played mostly up front the past 4 or 5 seasons while Ronaldo played wide left and did most of the defensive responsibilities that come with that position

Donnielighto · 23-10-2014 1:23pm

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

so we can't judge it on goals anymore because Messi is playing as a number 10...

But we could when Messi played mostly up front the past 4 or 5 seasons while Ronaldo played wide left and did most of the defensive responsibilities that come with that position

Nope, cant judge it on anything that would put ronaldo ahead really.

CSF · 23-10-2014 1:31pm

Donnielighto wrote: »

Nope, cant judge it on anything that would put ronaldo ahead really.

Which is ridiculous when you consider that at this stage he clearly is.

Turtwig · 23-10-2014 1:34pm

Ok, let's put this very simply.

Two seasons ago if Ronaldo and Messi were on the same team they'd likely have competed for field position and got in each other's way. This season Messi and Ronaldo could fit in the same team. Messi's no longer the spearhead of attack.

By all means compared them on goals but do it keeping in mind how the roles of each player has changed. Yes, I said each player as Ancellotti has experimented with Ronaldo playing a bit deeper too. Though for now he seems to be sticking with his traditional role in the 'bigger' matches.

To use the analogy of Xavi/Pirlo at the peak of their powers we wouldn't assess them on goals scored. We'd assess them on their contribution to the team and the game, part of which is goals. But for defenders and midfielders goals aren't what we'd judge them by. The point about Messi is very simply, it is not goal posts shifting, it's Messi is no longer playing the same role he used to play. His role now is assisting and link-up first, scoring second. Least, that's what I can discern. We won't really know until Suarez is in the team as contrary to the previous Barcelona teams it seems to be built for Suarez at the focal point.
Whether that will work remains to be seeing. For now though Enrique has Messi playing differently. In practically every game they've played together Messi has provided assists to Neymar.

CSF · 23-10-2014 1:41pm

Turtwig wrote: »

Ok, let's put this very simply.

Two seasons ago if Ronaldo and Messi were on the same team they'd likely have competed for field position and got in each other's way. This season Messi and Ronaldo could fit in the same team. Messi's no longer the spearhead of attack.

By all means compared them on goals but do it keeping in mind how the roles of each player has changed. Yes, I said each player as Ancellotti has experimented with Ronaldo playing a bit deeper too. Though for now he seems to be sticking with his traditional role in the 'bigger' matches.

To use the analogy of Xavi/Pirlo at the peak of their powers we wouldn't assess them on goals scored. We'd assess them on their contribution to the team and the game, part of which is goals. But for defenders and midfielders goals aren't what we'd judge them by. The point about Messi is very simply, it is not goal posts shifting, it's Messi is no longer playing the same role he used to play. His role now is assisting and link-up first, scoring second. Least, that's what I can discern. We won't really know until Suarez is in the team as contrary to the previous Barcelona teams it seems to be built for Suarez at the focal point.
Whether that will work remains to be seeing. For now though Enrique has Messi playing differently. In practically every game they've played together Messi has provided assists to Neymar.

Whereas previously Messi played centre forward, Ronaldo played wide, and nobody complained when goals were used as the decisive factor.

I'm not saying I think goals are the only factor used, but it is counterproductive to move the goalposts now, having said that, no matter what the goalposts at this stage, Ronaldo surely wins based on the last year and a half's football.

DildoFaggins · 23-10-2014 2:07pm

It's such a shame Ronaldo Is 29 I wonder how long his knees can take it? I guess whenever Ribery declines we can get an idea. He won't be the same if his pace is gone imo.

It'll be easier to assess Messi right now when Suarez comes back, Reckon he can easily challenge Ronaldo and Messi in that team.

It's sad to think Ronaldo is 29 and Messi 27 enjoy them while ye can two different players who will never be replicated.

Edit:You know United fans are clutching at straws when they mention Ronaldo and Defending in sentences

Turtwig · 23-10-2014 2:11pm

Reckon Messi will burn out before Ronaldo will. It's hard to say though, if their role changes. Messi seems more adept at contributing to an over-all game. Ronaldo though is the far superior athlete. On last check, he was averaging 3 more km per game than Messi.

Anyone got the more recent stats? Enrique's Messi's looks better than conditioned than previous seasons.

Idbatterim · 23-10-2014 2:14pm

His club form is better than Messi's. Leo's World Cup is the only thing keeping him in with a shout of winning the Ballon D'Or.

Hang on, the world cup? the sham of him being awarded player of the tournament? I laughed when he was given it by default won it...

Thomas Muller scored more goals in the previous worldcup and possibly this one, than Messi will score in all the worldcups that he plays combined!

Too Tough To Die · 23-10-2014 2:18pm

CSF wrote: »

Which is ridiculous when you consider that at this stage he clearly is.

Yet most who watched a lot of Real last season believe Di Maria and Modric performed better than Ronaldo last season. How can it be?

DildoFaggins · 23-10-2014 2:19pm

I think a big part of the reason Messi is playing Deeper is to preserve him since he used to be involved in the play so much,this is better for him now he can sit back and play the iniesta role,Messi could go till 38 if he wanted since Barca is built for him.

Ronaldo could go on for while since he never seems to get injured like Ribery/Robben and is a freak of nature, I'd be worried about his legs though tendonitis is not a good thing to have and I think it could get to him in a few years.

I hate the Messi/Ronaldo debate tbh really takes away from players Like Xavi/Iniesta/Modric who deserve acclaim.

SlickRic · 23-10-2014 2:23pm

kryogen wrote: »

It is really only the most blinkered would refuse to give him his proper respect at this stage and long may it continue

even Anfield applauded him off last night.

MD1990 · 23-10-2014 2:28pm

No doubt last 1.5 years Ronaldo has been better. Messi is regaining form this year but its just his finishing which has been lacking a bit. I don't see Ronaldo slowing down for another 2-3 years as he is the ultimate professional.

Professional Griefer · 23-10-2014 2:29pm

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Yet most who watched a lot of Real last season believe Di Maria and Modric performed better than Ronaldo last season. How can it be?

They might have, but did they have a bigger effect on the team? I'd imagine that playing with Ronaldo is a huge boost to all around him and he got a lot of goals last year, sure he broke the CL record last year. Without him would they have won their 10th CL?

GLaDOS · 23-10-2014 2:32pm

Ronaldo has definitely pulled ahead, you have to admire his determination to continue improving himself.

Too Tough To Die · 23-10-2014 2:36pm

Professional Griefer wrote: »

They might have, but did they have a bigger effect on the team? I'd imagine that playing with Ronaldo is a huge boost to all around him and he got a lot of goals last year, sure he broke the CL record last year. Without him would they have won their 10th CL?

From what i've seen last season, their performances had a bigger effect on the team when it mattered most. But yeah, they weren't as effective when it came to running up scorelines against vastly inferior opposition, which is what really counts.

Talib Fiasco · 23-10-2014 2:43pm

I can see Messi moving into the Xavi type of player in 5 or 6 years and I have no doubt he'll be the best player in the world in that position too.

Professional Griefer · 23-10-2014 2:45pm

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

From what i've seen last season, their performances had a bigger effect on the team when it mattered most. But yeah, they weren't as effective when it came to running up scorelines against vastly inferior opposition, which is what really counts.

You can only beat whats in front of you. In the CL last year he got the only 2 against Juve to win, 1 again in the reverse fixture in a 2-2 draw. Scored what proved to be the decider against Dortmund, got 2 against Bayern in the semis and the last in the final which was a peno. Those weren't vastly inferior opposition. Of course he isn't going to be the best every single game he plays, and it isn't exactly a knock on him if Di Maria/Modric or whoever also did well, they're world class players, its what they were bought for.

Was Messi the best performer for Barca last year?

bucketybuck · 23-10-2014 2:59pm

You can only laugh at it.

Guy breaks the goal scoring record to help his team win the Champions league and still his detractors just say that he can only score against "vastly inferior opposition".

Its the sort of inane rubbish you generally only see in US politics.

shrewdness · 23-10-2014 3:06pm

DildoFaggins wrote: »

It's such a shame Ronaldo Is 29 I wonder how long his knees can take it? I guess whenever Ribery declines we can get an idea. He won't be the same if his pace is gone imo.

It'll be easier to assess Messi right now when Suarez comes back, Reckon he can easily challenge Ronaldo and Messi in that team.

It's sad to think Ronaldo is 29 and Messi 27 enjoy them while ye can two different players who will never be replicated.

Edit:You know United fans are clutching at straws when they mention Ronaldo and Defending in sentences

I wouldn't worry about Ronaldo slowing down due to age any time soon. He's a physical freak of an athlete, he seems to be only getting better with age. After the injuries at the end of last season and the start of this one you might have thought he looked to be slowing down a touch, but his response since that has been emphatic. Even when he does slow a bit (say in his mid-30s), I could see him playing in a pure strikers role without the need to roam around the pitch as much, and he'll likely still rack up the goals. If he looks after his body(and he is meticulous in his training and preparation), he should be performing at a high level for a long time to come.

Messi's new role is interesting this year, can't wait to see how the team sets up when he, Neymar and Suarez are all starting. He's still performing to a very high level but, even leaving aside the difference in goals, he's not at the level he was a couple of years ago(no slight on him given the ridiculous high level of performance he had then). Taking the year as a whole I don't see any way Messi could take the Ballon D'or from Ronaldo. He did have a better World Cup, but not enough so considering Ronaldo's form in La Liga and Champions League. I'm sure the two of them will once again be battling for it over 2015 though.. The two of them really do push each other on to great things, both their records in La Liga since Ronaldo joined Real are amazing.

You're right though, we should enjoy watching the two of them when we can. Both breaking records regularly, and both still in their 20s. When they both finish up they will have some quite incredible stats and achievements built up. They'll certainly be remembered as two of the greats, and they're both playing in their peak in the same league, that won't come around again too soon.

Rayne Wooney · 23-10-2014 3:12pm

Deary me

i didn't hear any of this nonsense about Xavi and Iniesta a few years back but now it's about Modric and Di Maria

Some people will never give up I suppose

Billy86 · 23-10-2014 3:12pm

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Yet most who watched a lot of Real last season believe Di Maria and Modric performed better than Ronaldo last season. How can it be?

Given Ronaldo was scoring a goal a game, broke the CL goalscoring record in a season, won the European Golden Shoe and the Ballon d'Or, I have to question the motives of people trying to claim that there were not one, but two players better than him in his own team alone.

MaroonAndGreen · 23-10-2014 3:36pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

Hang on, the world cup? the sham of him being awarded player of the tournament? I laughed when he was given it by default won it...

Thomas Muller scored more goals in the previous worldcup and possibly this one, than Messi will score in all the worldcups that he plays combined!

An absolute idiotic post if I ever saw one. Who said anything about Thomas Muller or the Golden Ball controversy? Completely not relevant.

Obviously was stating that Messi had a better World Cup than RONALDO. Not Muller or Rodriguez or anyone else.

Its a Messi v Ronaldo debate so dont try and throw out a valid point by bringing in irrelevant players.

Too Tough To Die · 23-10-2014 3:54pm

Billy86 wrote: »

Given Ronaldo was scoring a goal a game, broke the CL goalscoring record in a season, won the European Golden Shoe and the Ballon d'Or, I have to question the motives of people trying to claim that there were not one, but two players better than him in his own team alone.

I don't see why Real Madrid fans would have a hidden agenda to be fair.

Billy86 · 23-10-2014 4:15pm

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

I don't see why Real Madrid fans would have a hidden agenda to be fair.

Now that you've switched from "most who watched a lot of Real Madrid matches last season" to "Real Madrid fans" do you care to substantiate that statement a bit? Because no, I don't for one moment believe that most Madrid fans did not think Ronaldo was only their third best player last year.

Too Tough To Die · 23-10-2014 4:29pm

Billy86 wrote: »

Now that you've switched from "most who watched a lot of Real Madrid matches last season" to "Real Madrid fans" do you care to substantiate that statement a bit? Because no, I don't for one moment believe that most Madrid fans did not think Ronaldo was only their third best player last year.

I don't believe that most Real Madrid fans think he was their best player last year either. Most fans are idiots and don't have a clue. So allow me to clarify. Most that i have spoken to or heard from, people who watch every minute of every game, felt that all considered, Modric and Di Maria were better last season. They were mostly Real Madrid fans. Fancy that.

It's not necessarily my personal opinion, but i do trust theirs.

CSF · 23-10-2014 4:30pm

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Yet most who watched a lot of Real last season believe Di Maria and Modric performed better than Ronaldo last season. How can it be?

Most people who watched alot of Real believe that? Really? No.

Billy86 · 23-10-2014 4:31pm

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

I don't believe that most Real Madrid fans think he was their best player last year either. Most fans are idiots and don't have a clue. So allow me to clarify. Most that i have spoken to or heard from, people who watch every minute of every game, felt that all considered, Modric and Di Maria were better last season. They were mostly Real Madrid fans. Fancy that.

It's not necessarily my personal opinion, but i do trust theirs.

Funny enough, these people would find themselves in the vast minority of those who watch every minute of every Madrid game.

CSF · 23-10-2014 4:31pm

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

I don't believe that most Real Madrid fans think he was their best player last year either. Most fans are idiots and don't have a clue. So allow me to clarify. Most that i have spoken to or heard from, people who watch every minute of every game, felt that all considered, Modric and Di Maria were better last season. They were mostly Real Madrid fans. Fancy that.

It's not necessarily my personal opinion, but i do trust theirs.

Seriously, this is miles off the mark. Ronaldo is up for his 2nd Ballon D'or in a row for a reason.

Too Tough To Die · 23-10-2014 4:32pm

CSF wrote: »

Seriously, this is miles off the mark. Ronaldo is up for his 2nd Ballon D'or in a row for a reason.

Hence my confusion.

CSF · 23-10-2014 4:35pm

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Hence my confusion.

You're fairly alone in that confusion, apart from your imaginary friends who would have Di Maria or Modric up for it.

Too Tough To Die · 23-10-2014 4:37pm

CSF wrote: »

You're fairly alone in that confusion, apart from your imaginary friends who would have Di Maria or Modric up for it.

They never said that.

Billy86 · 23-10-2014 4:38pm

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

They never said that.

Then who would they have had winning it?

CSF · 23-10-2014 4:38pm

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

They never said that.

Ok, you should get them to post here because otherwise you haven't got too many on your side in that argument, because well, frankly, it is silly.

Too Tough To Die · 23-10-2014 4:39pm

CSF wrote: »

Ok, you should get them to post here because otherwise you haven't got too many on your side in that argument, because well, frankly, it is silly.

It's not my argument. Jesus!

CSF · 23-10-2014 4:51pm

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

It's not my argument. Jesus!

They're not here making it, you are.

Messi Or Ronaldo?

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