Messi Or Ronaldo?

Billy86

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Not really. A few passes gathered over as period of 12 years proves what exactly? Like his free's, might score one at every 50 attempts

Remember the other thread where you were waffling on that he could never take over a game, I found and posted a YouTube video of his match against Sociedad last season, and you subsequently disappeared?

:pac:

Turtyturd

Maleah Victorious Yodeler wrote: »

1 in 12 is close to 1 in 50?

Okay then.

Statement is hyperbolic alright but 1 in 12 looks bad for a supposed free kick specialist.


As for the comments they are fairly petty, and could easily be in keeping with the petulant on field personality highlighted earlier but Ballague seems to be blowing smoke up Messi's hole in the rest of the passage so it's hard to tell.

If true though I wonder what name he has for Bale after he stole the spotlight in the CL final.

Billy86

The Golden Miller wrote: »

"Again never said it hadn't happened. Surely when I posted that message, it was before you put the video up, aye? Never said I hadn't seen it now"

Although I was originally speaking in general, which seems to be lost on you

Well at least you now admit that yes, he absolutely can do that because you have seen it with your own eyes.

The Moldy Gowl

So now can you say that he can at least pass the ball 30 yards?

Billy86

Turtyturd wrote: »

Statement is hyperbolic alright but 1 in 12 looks bad for a supposed free kick specialist.

It's not great no, but for the purposes of a Messi/Ronaldo thread a difference of 0.6% conversion really isn't fantastic either on Messi's end - they would need to take 190 free kicks each at that rate for a difference to show up.

Blatter

Turtyturd wrote: »

If true though I wonder what name he has for Bale after he stole the spotlight in the CL final.

Ronaldo stole it back with that last minute penalty and wild celebrtation if you remember :pac:

Billy86

Blatter wrote: »

Ronaldo stole it back with that last minute penalty and wild celebrtation if you remember :pac:

To be fair I would say there is about as much truth to those Ronaldo rumours as to Messi abusing and bullying team mates Messi's with comments like "What are you doing? You're new here, and you're nobody", "Pass me the ball, you're here to play for me" and "Considering how bad you are, I've no idea how you cost so much".

Of course as is the norm whenever anything negative arises about these two, one has become a bit of a mountain out of a molehill situation while the other was swept away immediately.

My reckoning? They're both complete b*llocks.

MaroonAndGreen

Messi hit some big form lately. Back to his best

Andersonisgod

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Messi hit some big form lately. Back to his best

So true, however his jersey is the wrong colour to warrant an extension to the Balon D'or voting.

derfderf

Andersonisgod wrote: »

So true, however his jersey is the wrong colour to warrant an extension to the Balon D'or voting.

Big time bias in favour of Real when it comes to stuff like this. On a less important note how are Barca coping with their transfer ban?

Andersonisgod

derfderf wrote: »

Big time bias in favour of Real when it comes to stuff like this. On a less important note how are Barca coping with their transfer ban?

I wouldn't say it's less important, indeed it's put massive pressure on the club to plan way ahead, which nobody has any faith in the current board doing, their most recent fumble being that Montoya is off and Douglas (woefully inept) has taken his place in the squad. Though the club have appealed the ban and news on that is expected quite soon, possibly within a week.

Ed Winchester

Andersonisgod wrote: »

So true, however his jersey is the wrong colour to warrant an extension to the Balon D'or voting.

Why would he deserve an extension?

bucketybuck

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Though the club have appealed the ban and news on that is expected quite soon, possibly within a week.

They've posted the brown envelope you mean.

Harvey Low Fat Milk

Ed Winchester wrote: »

Why would he deserve an extension?

There was an extension after the World Cup playoff matches when Ronaldo was exceptional. Messi has scored 10 in 5 (I think) and broken a couple of records since the voting closed. Think he's just alluding to that being unfair? Votes like this should probably take place at the end of the season or close voting at the end of December to avoid adding to the already endless debates.

IncognitoMan

Even with an extension Ronaldo still wins this one. It's not like he's stopped scoring in the same amount of time Messi has picked up.

Andersonisgod

Ed Winchester wrote: »

Why would he deserve an extension?

Why would Ronaldo last year? The only Balon D'or winner to win the award by the voting being inexplicably extended.

Andersonisgod

bucketybuck wrote: »

They've posted the brown envelope you mean.

Unfortunately those tend not to work when the sender is from Catalonia.

bucketybuck

Player A has been at an impossibly high standard for the entire year.

Player B was great, then his form dipped, now he is great again.

In some peoples minds that makes Player B most deserving of the award. And makes me wonder about their judgement.

Harvey Low Fat Milk

Yeah I think in this case Ronaldo deserves it. I know there's a lot of weight behind world cup performances in these but Ronaldo has been ridiculous for the whole calendar year. I suppose what counts in Messi's favour is the big moments like breaking the CL and la Liga scoring records and he was very good in the world cup.

kryogen

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Why would Ronaldo last year? The only Balon D'or winner to win the award by the voting being inexplicably extended.

Always the victims is a bit of a joke considering the level of underhanded and shady dealings that surround Barcelona don't you think?

Maybe FIFA thought the World Cup playoffs deserved to be up for inclusion, maybe since there are no World Cup playoffs this season there was no need to extend so that Messi could try to catch up, he still hasn't anyway so not sure why your getting so butthurt about it

Ronaldo has been, hands down the best player this year and will win the award deservingly, again. Any attempt to cheapen it or belittle it simply make the person attempting that look just that, small and cheap.

Andersonisgod

bucketybuck wrote: »

Player A has been at an impossibly high standard for the entire year.

Player B was great, then his form dipped, now he is great again.

In some peoples minds that makes Player B most deserving of the award. And makes me wonder about their judgement.

It's so odd how player A is supposed to have had a remarkable year and player B has been disappointing, yet player A only has 3 more goals than player B over the calendar year and player B contributes a whole lot more than just goals.

I saw this on Twitter but I'll reiterate it because I can't think of a better way of explaining my thinking when this is brought up. Gerd Muller was a great goalscorer, one of the best goalscorers ever yet nobody was, or is, clamouring to say he's better than Maradona or Garrincha. Same situation here, Ronaldo is a great goalscorer but he doesn't have that inherent genius or magic that Messi has. Even when it only comes down to goals (which is ridiculous) Messi has broken so many records it's incredible. That there can be the slightest hint of doubt at all astounds me.

kryogen

See, your trying to shift the argument again, since you know you can't win one where you make a case for Messi winning the WPOTY this year.

Also, Ronaldo has no inherent genius or magic? Would you ever have a long chat with yourself.

bucketybuck

Andersonisgod wrote: »

and player B contributes a whole lot more than just goals.

This is the sort of wishy washy babble that people like to trot out to make their favourite player look better, and it means nothing because it is coming from an avowed Barca fanboy.

I say that Ronaldo contributes a whole lot more than just goals, and Messi does not have the genius or magic that Ronaldo does. See how easy that is?

Andersonisgod

kryogen wrote: »

Always the victims is a bit of a joke considering the level of underhanded and shady dealings that surround Barcelona don't you think?

Maybe FIFA thought the World Cup playoffs deserved to be up for inclusion, maybe since there are no World Cup playoffs this season there was no need to extend so that Messi could try to catch up, he still hasn't anyway so not sure why your getting so butthurt about it

Ronaldo has been, hands down the best player this year and will win the award deservingly, again. Any attempt to cheapen it or belittle it simply make the person attempting that look just that, small and cheap.

Why should it be included? Seriously why should a game between two European teams who failed to qualify top of their group be granted such unprecedented importance? Is breaking the Liga scoring record not as important? Or breaking the Champions League scoring record? In any vote, suddenly extending a deadline to suit a single party only cheapens the award, personally I have little time for it to begin with. If they gave Messi 50 of these things it wouldn't matter to me, what matters is what you can see yourself, and there's no doubt who history will favour.

Why? 3 more goals means he's been hands down the best player? Even in a year that's been considered poor for Messi he only has 3 more goals? It's so strange that he hasn't got so much more than Messi when so much of his game is goals. I do also wonder, if you were to break down the numbers further, how many of each of their goals are penalties?

Ed Winchester

Ronaldo absolutely deserved it last year and absolutely deserves it again. This conspiracy theory crap is laughable especially when it's defending a club as dishonest, immoral and corrupt as Barcelona.

bucketybuck

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Is breaking the Liga scoring record not as important? Or breaking the Champions League scoring record?

Why should it be so important this season? Those records were not accomplished only in this season, the bulk of the work for them was accomplished over nearly a decade. Giving the award based upon those records is rewarding previous years in which he already won the ballon d'or and not actually a reflection on who is best this time out.

Andersonisgod

bucketybuck wrote: »

This is the sort of wishy washy babble that people like to trot out to make their favourite player look better, and it means nothing because it is coming from an avowed Barca fanboy.

I say that Ronaldo contributes a whole lot more than just goals, and Messi does not have the genius or magic that Ronaldo does. See how easy that is?

Or it's from someone who watches games and isn't waiting for opta state updates. Though I do suspect those stats would tell me that Messi dribbles with the ball more, that Messi touches the ball more, that Messi plays more passes on the final third more, that Messi creates more chances. Those would be cold hard stats I suppose but to watch both in action can leave you in no doubt to who the better player is.

bucketybuck

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Or it's from someone who watches games and isn't waiting for opta state updates.

More wishy washy babble.

Andersonisgod

Ed Winchester wrote: »

Ronaldo absolutely deserved it last year and absolutely deserves it again. This conspiracy theory crap is laughable especially when it's defending a club as dishonest, immoral and corrupt as Barcelona.

I love how a conspiracy can just be described as crap without any reasoning when the person putting forward the conspiracy has given proof. Of course in reality it isn't a conspiracy, the vote extension was a reality and was unprecedented.

Andersonisgod

bucketybuck wrote: »

More wishy washy babble.

Or words. If you'd care to write up a list of words which I must use and a second list of words I should refrain from using for fear of the dreaded, yet unnervingly vague, "wishy washy babble" tag please by all means send it on.

Irish94

Andersonisgod wrote: »

It's so odd how player A is supposed to have had a remarkable year and player B has been disappointing, yet player A only has 3 more goals than player B over the calendar year and player B contributes a whole lot more than just goals.

This makes me laugh. I see this so many times when people compare Messi and Ronaldo. Messi is a team player, and Ronaldo is not etc.

Ronaldo had 9 assists last season, two less then Messi in La Liga. This season, Ronaldo has the most assists in LaLiga.

Iused2likebusts

Good to see that Messi has shown some on here that he doesn't rely on xavi and iniesta to perform at unbelievable levels.

Andersonisgod

Irish94 wrote: »

This makes me laugh. I see this so many times when people compare Messi and Ronaldo. Messi is a team player, and Ronaldo is not etc.

Ronaldo had 9 assists last season, two less then Messi in La Liga. This season, Ronaldo has the most assists in LaLiga.

I do love debating with Ronaldo fanboys, it's quite an easy way to get the most up to date stats since all anyone can talk about is stats. So my young statistically-inclined friend, what do you say to the notion that Ronaldo has been great in 2014, when he only has 3 goals more than Messi, less assists and his goals include more penalties than Messi. From a statistical point of view, if you were to look purely at the numbers, how can you say Ronaldo has been hands down better than everybody else and Messi has had a poor year?

Ed Winchester

You're the one who keeps bringing up the goals stat chief.

Andersonisgod

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Good to see that Messi has shown some on here that he doesn't rely on xavi and iniesta to perform at unbelievable levels.

What Maradona was to Argentina, Messi is to Barcelona.

Andersonisgod

Ed Winchester wrote: »

You're the one who keeps bringing up the goals stat chief.

To speak to Ronaldo fans you must know their lingo, I'm acclimatising.

Ed Winchester

Andersonisgod wrote: »

To speak to Ronaldo fans you must know their lingo, I'm acclimatising.

Oh. That's convenient.

Andersonisgod

Ed Winchester wrote: »

Oh. That's convenient.

Well I wouldn't want to be labeled a "wishy washy babble" merchant for speaking of anything other than goal stats.

Irish94

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I do love debating with Ronaldo fanboys, it's quite an easy way to get the most up to date stats since all anyone can talk about is stats. So my young statistically-inclined friend, what do you say to the notion that Ronaldo has been great in 2014, when he only has 3 goals more than Messi, less assists and his goals include more penalties than Messi. From a statistical point of view, if you were to look purely at the numbers, how can you say Ronaldo has been hands down better than everybody else and Messi has had a poor year?

My friend, where did I say in my post that 'Ronaldo has been hands down better than everybody else and Messi has had a poor year'? You're making up tales, I think.

I just simply stated Ronaldo, like Messi, contributes a lot more then goals, while you implied that Ronaldo contributes goals and that is it. Lazy accusation is all.

I find it funny, you mention Ronaldo 'only has 3 goals more than Messi' and 'less assists'. How come you didn't say Messi has - 'only 1 more assist than Ronaldo'?

Since you like stats so much my friend, here is what I found after 10 seconds of research;

Messi: Apps (64), Assists (21), Goals (56)

Ronaldo: Apps (57), Assists (20), Goals (59)

I do not want to have an argument. Good day.

Liam O

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Good to see that Messi has shown some on here that he doesn't rely on xavi and iniesta to perform at unbelievable levels.

Yeah, he's playing with some serious chumps at the moment. How much did Neymar cost again? Suarez was a pittance at 75m too.

Andersonisgod

Irish94 wrote: »

My friend, where did I say in my post that 'Ronaldo has been hands down better than everybody else and Messi has had a poor year'? You're making up tales, I think.

I just simply stated Ronaldo, like Messi, contributes a lot more then goals, while you implied that Ronaldo contributes goals and that is it. Lazy accusation is all.

I find it funny, you mention Ronaldo 'only has 3 goals more than Messi' and 'less assists'. How come you didn't say Messi has - 'only 1 more assist than Ronaldo'?

Since you like stats so much my friend, here is what I found after 10 seconds of research;

Messi: Apps (64), Assists (21), Goals (56)

Ronaldo: Apps (57), Assists (20), Goals (59)

I do not want to have an argument. Good day.

Well I'm glad our statistics correspond. Next up, could you please find for me how many of Ronaldo's goals are penalties?

Well you were quick to reply to my post yet I failed to see your post disputing the "hands down better" tag.

Dribbles? Passes in the final third? Chances created? He's Gerd Muller, Messi is Maradona.

Andersonisgod

Liam O wrote: »

Yeah, he's playing with some serious chumps at the moment. How much did Neymar cost again? Suarez was a pittance at 75m too.

Because world record fee Bale, astronomical fee James, and expensively acquired Isco, Modric, Benzema and Kroos don't cut mustard?

Liam O

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Because world record fee Bale, astronomical fee James, and expensively acquired Isco, Modric, Benzema and Kroos don't cut mustard?

Kroos cost about the same as Rakitic. Just making the point that the new guys Messi is playing with are hardly of lower standard.

Are we sure Bale was the world record after all the Neymar business?

Andersonisgod

Liam O wrote: »

Kroos cost about the same as Rakitic. Just making the point that the new guys Messi is playing with are hardly of lower standard.

Are we sure Bale was the world record after all the Neymar business?

That's fair enough, they are a high standard, they'd want to be playing for Barcelona. My gripe is the idea that only Messi relies on quality teammates, yet you rarely hear the same levelled at Ronaldo.

I prefer to think that Rosell didn't actually happen, like that season of Dallas it was all a bad dream. We can't be sure how much the Neymar deal cost, though I would say that only last week Jorge Mendes was telling the press that Mangala actually cost £42.9 million so how sure can we be about any overall transfer figure.

Iused2likebusts

Liam O wrote: »

Yeah, he's playing with some serious chumps at the moment. How much did Neymar cost again? Suarez was a pittance at 75m too.

Ronaldo has always played with great players yet some on here try to belittle Messi's achievements to promote their own agenda by stating a lot of it was down to xavi and iniesta.

tastyt

I'm a huge fan of both players, I actually think they are the two best players of all time. Nobody has ever done what they are doing over the past 5 years or so.

If you asked me to pick one I'd pick messi but that's personal choice. Anybody who can't see that Ronaldo has been consistently brilliant all year and thoroughly deserves the ballon d'or this year is either clueless or has too much anti Madrid/man u/Ronaldo bias to make an objective decision

Liam O

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Ronaldo has always played with great players yet some on here try to belittle Messi's achievements to promote their own agenda by stating a lot of it was down to xavi and iniesta.

A lot of it was. Xavi, Iniesta and Messi are in the top 5 players of the 21st century. Nobody Ronaldo has played with would be in the top 10 probably.

Iused2likebusts

Liam O wrote: »

A lot of it was. Xavi, Iniesta and Messi are in the top 5 players of the 21st century. Nobody Ronaldo has played with would be in the top 10 probably.

It's a ridiculous argument that Messi has shown to be nonsense as he is still performing at unbelievable levels. Another cracker is that Messi needs to leave barca to be a true great.

Spazdarn

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Because world record fee Bale, astronomical fee James, and expensively acquired Isco, Modric, Benzema and Kroos don't cut mustard?

I think the argument is that they both have amazing teams, not that one was hugely more talented than the other. Both players have excellent players around them.

Spazdarn

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

It's a ridiculous argument that Messi has shown to be nonsense as he is still performing at unbelievable levels. Another cracker is that Messi needs to leave barca to be a true great.

It does carry a little weight though as he's never reproduced the same form for Argentina.